Looking for suggestions on a shotgun


PDA






precisionrifle14
March 3, 2012, 01:16 PM
I was looking around on the web and I stumbled across a couple of sites with lots of different types of specialized ammo for 12ga shotguns. I have been working hard on assembling an all around tactical package for WROL/SHTF. After seeing all the types of ammo available, I would really like to add a shotgun in with my rifle and my Glock 22. I figured since I'll be getting a MOLLE vest already, I could add a shotgun scabbard to the back of it and have a shell holder somewhere on the vest.

So I'm looking for a shotgun that will be as close to 100% reliable as possible. I want a fairly short barrel, about 18in., and the shotgun needs to be as light as possible, but it can't have too much recoil. In the role this shotgun would be playing, the Mrs. or my son (he's 14) might have to shoot it. It needs to be weather resistant and have a finish that will prevent rust Most importantly, it needs to be durable and take a hard beating without batting an eyelash. I know that some of these might be sort of contradictive to each other,but I'm willing to compromise to get what I want. I don't have a preference to either pump or semi-auto, and I don't care about the stock style. (It should have a stock)

edit: I don't think it can be choked since I'd use specialized ammo through it as well as slugs, buckshot, and whatever else I can find.

I'm also hoping to find it under about $600-$700. I don't know if a shotgun like this exists, but I'm sure someone can point me in the right direction.;)

edit:I'm willing to go over that budget if the shotgun has what I want. Yes I know you get what you pay for, and I have 2 Beretta Urika 2's that illustrate that.

If you enjoyed reading about "Looking for suggestions on a shotgun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Dave McCracken
March 3, 2012, 02:49 PM
I suggest reading the stickies at the top here, especially the one on Fighting Shotguns.

oneounceload
March 3, 2012, 08:40 PM
and the shotgun needs to be as light as possible, but it can't have too much recoil.

mutually exclusive - it can not be light AND have light recoil

Make up your mind and go from there

precisionrifle14
March 3, 2012, 10:26 PM
mutually exclusive - it can not be light AND have light recoil

Make up your mind and go from there
If you read the whole thing you would have seen that I said that exact fact. Then I went on to say I was also willing to compromise some on the weight

Fred Fuller
March 4, 2012, 01:32 AM
My wife is old enough to collect Social Security, 5'4" tall, weighs about 135 and can shoot a 12 gauge 870 that fits her properly just fine, with full velocity 2.75" buckshot and slugs.

A marine finish 870 or Mossberg 590 should do most of what you want, and still come in at or under budget. I'd leave off the extended magazine tube, because extra weight out in front of the support hand is a bigger problem for shorter shooters or those not as physically strong. A shorter stock (those here are shortened to a 12.5" LOP) with a premium recoil pad makes a lot of difference, and a full length field type forearm means not having to over-extend the support arm. Rifle type sights, or even ghost rings, can be a help at getting hits with slugs at longer range. But lots of shooters manage with just a bead sight, too.

I don't know what kind of "specialized ammo" you're looking at, but most of that stuff is just expensive ways to play with a shotgun. Birdshot, buckshot and slugs are shotgun bread and butter. Anything else needs some serious squint eye :scrutiny: before buying.

JMHO, YMMV...

Pfletch83
March 4, 2012, 01:42 AM
precisionrifle14

Check this out if you would like ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCA7hJxF84&feature=plcp&context=C32a13c0UDOEgsToPDskLtYIqRHXTRir4bIIaaygYa

Mossberg 500E .410 Project Codename DFG MK-1

Wood stock,Plain 18.5-inch fixed cylinder choke barrel,weight loaded 6-1/4 lbs.

The smaller sized shell means that more can be carried for the same weight as larger gauge shells (I've taken to calling it the M-14 V.S. M-16 Paradigm)

To shave the weight down further you could try the DFG MK-2 (loaded weight 5-1/2 lbs. ) it's just a synthetic stock added to the Mossberg 50455,though if you're going to use it with slugs I would recommend that you look at a good sight setup.

* Just make sure to check the end plate threads and the stock bolt that will be shipped from Mossberg with the replacement for the Pistol Grip Only setup (Ran into a few problems with that and am waiting to send it to a local smith for thread check and possible rethreading if needed) *

T Bran
March 4, 2012, 02:10 AM
pfletch,
Does the 500E accept multiple barrel legnths. I'd like to have an 18'' for HD as well as a 24'' or 26'' for field use. I read another post a while back and seem to recall some issues with the .410 barrels not being interchangeable.
Sorry for the hijack but it sounds like paradise to me I'm a .410 fan.
Troy

Pfletch83
March 4, 2012, 02:23 AM
The only real problems I've ran into is the Synthetic stock issues for the 50455 other than that the MK-1 has worked like a champ.

Just make sure the barrels you are going to swap out are going on the same length/same capacity magazine tube.

for example both the models I used to put together the MK-1 have the same 6 round total capacity with 2-1/2 shells.

The 50455 for the 18.5 inch barrel and the model 50104 for the 14-inch L.O.P. stock.

dober83
March 4, 2012, 04:11 PM
I have a 14 year old nephew who can shoot my 870 with 2 3/4 buckshot and rifled slugs. As far as reliability, I've heard the 870 described as the AK47 of shotguns where reliability is concerned. They can be had used for less than $300 which leaves plenty of room for upgrades.

rcmodel
March 4, 2012, 04:23 PM
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-marine-magnum.aspx

http://www.basspro.com/Mossberg-500-Special-Purpose-Mariner-12-Gauge-w/20-Barrel-Shotgun/product/10217918/120650

I started shooting a 12 ga when I was 10, so your 14 year old should be just fine.
He will be old enough to have his own GI issue 12 ga shotgun in 4 more years!

rc

precisionrifle14
March 4, 2012, 04:46 PM
Thanks guys, I'm going with the Remington 870 Marine Magnum. After reading the stickies here, I'll upgrade the sights to something better for low-light scenarios, maybe tritium.

The "specialized" ammo I was talking about were non-lethal rounds(beanbags, rubber slugs, and/or pepper blast), starburst ammo, breaching rounds, flechette ammo, and anything else that looks useful or fun.

rcmodel
March 4, 2012, 04:50 PM
flechette ammoSave your money.

rc

Fred Fuller
March 5, 2012, 09:17 AM
Save your money on all of it.

So-called "non-lethal" shotgun ammo is NOT non-lethal, because ANYTHING fired out of a shotgun can kill, including blanks. Any firearm is a lethal weapon and any firing of said firearm toward another person is by definition use of lethal force. And if you're not legally justified in firing lethal ammunition, then there can be no justification for using so-called "non-lethal" ammunition either. The term most used today is 'less lethal' because "non-lethal" is not accurate verbiage. It's true that LEOs employ less lethal munitions under certain circumstances, but they have 1) specific training in the employment of less lethal munitions (even so, they occasionally kill people with them), 2) taxpayer provided legal support, 3) lethal weapons at the ready if less lethal means fail, and 4) an official use of force policy which has provisions for less lethal means. We as private citizens have none of those things.

If you want to experiment for fun, join the crowd - but don't expect to have much of that stuff perform as advertised. Bird bombs work OK if you need to get avian pests out of orchards, off runways etc., and flares can be useful in getting attention in emergencies (as long as they're not fired in a choked barrel), but otherwise... best advice I can offer is 'save your money.'

precisionrifle14
March 5, 2012, 11:38 PM
Save your money on all of it.

So-called "non-lethal" shotgun ammo is NOT non-lethal, because ANYTHING fired out of a shotgun can kill, including blanks. Any firearm is a lethal weapon and any firing of said firearm toward another person is by definition use of lethal force. And if you're not legally justified in firing lethal ammunition, then there can be no justification for using so-called "non-lethal" ammunition either. The term most used today is 'less lethal' because "non-lethal" is not accurate verbiage. It's true that LEOs employ less lethal munitions under certain circumstances, but they have 1) specific training in the employment of less lethal munitions (even so, they occasionally kill people with them), 2) taxpayer provided legal support, 3) lethal weapons at the ready if less lethal means fail, and 4) an official use of force policy which has provisions for less lethal means. We as private citizens have none of those things.

If you want to experiment for fun, join the crowd - but don't expect to have much of that stuff perform as advertised. Bird bombs work OK if you need to get avian pests out of orchards, off runways etc., and flares can be useful in getting attention in emergencies (as long as they're not fired in a choked barrel), but otherwise... best advice I can offer is 'save your money.'
I'm mainly getting them for fun. Setting up some targets and seeing what would happen. :D
In a true tactical scenario, the only ammo I'd really carry would be 00-buck and maybe a couple flares for signaling. Depending on the scenario(SHTF/WROL, where I was, what my surroundings were) I might maybe possibly almost think about carrying breaching rounds. But as of now, I don't plan on it.

allaroundhunter
March 6, 2012, 12:27 AM
In a true tactical scenario, the only ammo I'd really carry would be 00-buck

I wouldn't go so far as to limit yourself to just 00 buck either. Slugs have their place, and even other shot sizes can be useful depending on the circumstance.

precisionrifle14
March 7, 2012, 05:57 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to limit yourself to just 00 buck either. Slugs have their place, and even other shot sizes can be useful depending on the circumstance.
What other rounds would you suggest, and what scenarios would they be preferable in?

allaroundhunter
March 7, 2012, 06:17 PM
What other rounds would you suggest, and what scenarios would they be preferable in?

Depending on the layout of your home, slugs could be useful, as could #4 Buck.

I keep my defensive shotgun loaded for defense against 4-legged critters, namely feral dogs and feral pigs because when I am around my ranch that is typically what I run across (but it would be equally effective against an unwanted trespasser). For that purpose I keep slugs in the gun. After we trap feral dogs, we use #6 shot to dispatch them because it is cheaper than slugs and 00 buck and gets the job done from close range.

If I really have to go into the SHTF type scenario.....slugs will reach out and stop a threat, or kill an animal for you to feed on from a greater range than 00 buckshot will

precisionrifle14
March 7, 2012, 07:20 PM
Depending on the layout of your home, slugs could be useful, as could #4 Buck.

I keep my defensive shotgun loaded for defense against 4-legged critters, namely feral dogs and feral pigs because when I am around my ranch that is typically what I run across (but it would be equally effective against an unwanted trespasser). For that purpose I keep slugs in the gun. After we trap feral dogs, we use #6 shot to dispatch them because it is cheaper than slugs and 00 buck and gets the job done from close range.

If I really have to go into the SHTF type scenario.....slugs will reach out and stop a threat, or kill an animal for you to feed on from a greater range than 00 buckshot will
My "complete, do-it-all tactical system" also includes a rifle, but slugs would have about 350 ft. lbs. more stopping power than a .223

.223=(ME)1,150 ft. lbs.
12 gauge=(ME)1500 ft. lbs.

allaroundhunter
March 7, 2012, 07:30 PM
My "complete, do-it-all tactical system" also includes a rifle, but slugs would have about 350 ft. lbs. more stopping power than a .223

If you get caught in a pinch.....you will not have time to switch guns....and slugs will have more than 350 ft-lbs of energy than your .223.....They will have around 1,000 more ft-lbs at the muzzle.

.223 ME = 1,220 ft*lbs
12 ga ME = 2,360 ft*lbs

.....I don't know where you got 1,500 ft*lbs from...

The Brenneke Slugs that I use create over 2,500 ft*lbs at the muzzle

precisionrifle14
March 7, 2012, 10:55 PM
I got it from some site that had an average for all loads. I guess they threw in some reduced recoil or some really light birdshot loads in the average

If you enjoyed reading about "Looking for suggestions on a shotgun" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!