Gun shows and taking a picture?


PDA






intercooler
March 3, 2012, 05:35 PM
Went to my second show today and must have missed the rule sign for no pictures on the way in. I took a picture while inside of the amazing crowd with my cell... got blasted for it. Well on the outside of the building more than 20 feet away I took another of the crowd still piling in. Had a guy ask me what I was doing? Said I am taking a picture to which he said no pictures as the sign says. I replied with we are not inside or close. He said their are guns in there?

Someone give me the cliff notes on the cell phone thing? Could people think it were a gun or something and that's why they don't want them around? Seems tough since they were having this one at an Outlet Center where people are walking store to store.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun shows and taking a picture?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
FROGO207
March 3, 2012, 05:52 PM
WELL?? I have attended 75+ gunshows up here in Maine over the years and have never seen a sign prohibiting taking pictures within. Might be slightly nearsighted or have tunnel vision or whatever so there might be signs I missed. However I am not prone to taking pictures anyways unless I am disassembling a firearm and want to get it back together in one piece without asking dumb questions.:cool:

jrwalte
March 3, 2012, 06:23 PM
I don't recall ever seeing no photography signs in Georgia for Eastman or RK Gun and Knife. Maybe it's just a policy of the second show you visited.

intercooler
March 3, 2012, 06:27 PM
Maybe. I'm just curious as to why though.

ApacheCoTodd
March 3, 2012, 06:27 PM
I distinctly dislike folk taking pictures of my tables, especially without asking. I have been witness to photos being taken, misinterpreted and used out of context in legal proceedings and by the press.

As far as taking photos of the crowd - at a gun show - do you really need the cliff notes on why that might tick some folk off?

Ultravox
March 3, 2012, 06:27 PM
If you are outside standing on public property they can't stop you from taking pictures. The can make whatever rules they want about it inside.

This is a useful site about photography rights: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

DoubleTapDrew
March 3, 2012, 06:34 PM
I've never noticed a sign like that at the shows I've gone to. Maybe it's a policy of the organization putting on the show.
The only reason I can think of for such a policy is worries over scammers taking pictures then listing the guns on gunbroker as their own.

intercooler
March 3, 2012, 06:39 PM
Blank...

ApacheCoTodd
March 3, 2012, 06:44 PM
See there, now you've posted his photo on the internet already. Again, do you really need to be told why he didn't like you taking the picture? Regardless of whether it is posted or not and whether a posting is justified or not a fella should certainly know better.

intercooler
March 3, 2012, 06:49 PM
Not much can be seen really. Kind of funky to me. Guys walking around with rifles, shotguns and pistols near all that would draw my attention more.

beatledog7
March 3, 2012, 07:05 PM
The shows I have attended all had signs up prohibiting photography. I hadn't been planning to take pictures anyway.

EddieNFL
March 3, 2012, 07:10 PM
I distinctly dislike folk taking pictures of my tables, especially without asking.

If not prohibited by the show, how do you handle the situation?

AFDavis11
March 3, 2012, 07:16 PM
Think we had a problem a few years back at the National Gun Show in VA. Police, undercover, were taking photos and then running criminal background checks on license plates. Basically building some kind of database. I forget all the details. I think the problem stemmed from that. I could be wrong though.

mnrivrat
March 3, 2012, 07:19 PM
When I was running gun shows I allowed pictures only when escorted and permission was given by the people who were being photographed, or who owned the items being photographed.

Yankee Fist
March 3, 2012, 07:19 PM
National Gun Day shows strictly prohibit photography. Personally, don't take my picture or pictures of my belongings unless you ask...just good manners in my book.

tekarra
March 3, 2012, 07:24 PM
Many of the gunshows in my area have signs prohibiting photos posted conspicuously in several locations. I also think it is rude to photograph people without asking their consent.

TITAN308
March 3, 2012, 08:21 PM
Outside the event would have gotten a prompt, "What are you going to do about it?" and then take a picture of him.

Well, that would be my response depending on the tone of the question.

intercooler
March 3, 2012, 08:50 PM
True. Maybe the inside one wasn't the greatest thing but it shows basically nothing. I really wish I could have take a few firearm pictures of ones people I know are looking for but couldn't. Oh well.

hso
March 3, 2012, 09:37 PM
The no photo issue came about when antis started taking pics and putting them up on the net trying make an issue of gun shows. People do not like their privacy intruded upon by having random yahoos taking pics.

X-Rap
March 3, 2012, 09:45 PM
It wasn't to many years ago when every tom dick and harry didn't have a high resolution camera capable of stills, video, and sound that was the size of a pack of smokes. I hate the idea of cameras everywhere and peoples need to take pictures of everything.
I have one myself and at times I have to remind myself to respect peoples privacy.

ApacheCoTodd
March 3, 2012, 09:51 PM
If not prohibited by the show, how do you handle the situation?
Most often it's foreigners wanting photos out of an enthusiastic appreciation and to be honest, I don't remember once denying the photos when asked ahead of time but have many times asked politely to have someone put the camera down after it's been hoisted without asking.

Mostly, I don't want to be in the photos myself and have yet to have a problem with anyone when I ask them not too.

Tim37
March 3, 2012, 09:52 PM
if you though they had a problem with you taking pics just try it at your local strip club.



seriously i havent ever seen a sign but then agian i havent ever had the urge to take a pic at a gun show.

50 cal
March 3, 2012, 10:18 PM
I would have taken a picture of the guy while he was telling me no pictures allowed. Lol.

medalguy
March 3, 2012, 11:12 PM
I set up at a lot of shows and I can tell you for sure I do NOT want anyone taking pictures of me and any merchandise I might have on my tables, nor of my customers. Some posters here seem to think it's funny to take a picture, but at many shows where I see signs posted the show promoters I believe would be entirely within their rights to seize your camera and remove the pictures.

Really guys, is it such a big deal to take pictures of people who DON'T want their pictures taken? Grow up.

exavid
March 3, 2012, 11:36 PM
First off I wouldn't take pictures of people or things they own without asking permission. But if someone was to try to take my phone it would be resisted just the same as if that person was attempting to rob me. That person laying hands on me to take it would be comitting an assault and I'd defend. Grabbing someone's expensive phone/camera isn't a great idea.

Sniper66
March 3, 2012, 11:53 PM
It is amazing to me that anyone would have to ask why someone does not want their picture taken by a stranger who didn't ask. DUH! And with all the anti-gun hysteria that has been created by folks like NY's Mayor Blomberg and his media pals, how is it possible to misunderstand why gun show people do like cameras?

22-rimfire
March 3, 2012, 11:54 PM
I have mixed emotions about this subject. I have never taken pictures at a gun show. Shows don't want pictures because of bad press. Promoters want to control that aspect of the press access as much as possible.

As far as invading someone's privacy, I don't think you are. I see it as no different from taking pictures along the street. A model release is not required.

psyopspec
March 4, 2012, 06:57 AM
Someone give me the cliff notes on the cell phone thing?

My concern would be with some rando shooting a photo of me and then puking it up on the internet. Oh, wait...

Here's a few sample reasons: With facebook working with the government to develop software for automatic facial recognition (that could then be applied across the internet), some of us may find that 1984-ish and wish to be non-participants to the extent that is possible in modern life.

For others, they may wish for their gun ownership to remain private to prevent robberies, or to maintain a certain image where they work. To say nothing of the seriousness of someone hiding out from a violent ex or in witness protection. Or perhaps because of their job (undercover, intel community, etc). While all these examples assume the photog is on the level, I haven't even mentioned yet that they don't know who you are. FED LEO fishing, a robber casing folks for later, etc. If you'd like more examples I can certainly produce them, but honestly, why do you require an excuse for someone not to be part of your photo collection? If they don't want to, that's not good enough?

If you don't understand a person's concern for privacy, I would recommend One Nation Under Surveillance as a start.

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 10:47 AM
Got ya. Understood so won't ever venture down that road again. Outside of the place I don't view it any different than being at Disney or any other semi-crowded public place. Sometimes catching a face in your pictures is near impossible. Hey someone could take my picture going into a sex video store and post it. I probably wouldn't like it but then again its a public place. No worries though it would be and is my choice to not go there.

Mikhail Weiss
March 4, 2012, 10:48 AM
Cliff notes:

You absolutely have the right to photograph what is available to public view (exception: some military and other sensitive institutions or locations).

There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public.

Anyone interfering with you or attempting to seize your property (camera, film, digital media, or otherwise) may be liable under the law for harassment, kidnapping, theft, coercion (e.g. threatening to call police in order to gain your submission).

Private parties cannot detain you and may be subject to criminal and civil charges should they attempt to do so -- outside of narrow restrictions regarding citizen's arrest (usually for felonies or crimes committed in the person's presence).

Here's the important part:

Property owners may legally prohibit photography on their property, but have no right to prohibit others from photographing said property from other locations.

I don't know what legal penalties apply for taking photographs anyway, but the offended party still can't seize cameras, film, digital media, or other property of the offender, and neither can police, at least not without a court order. I suspect offending photographers would likely be threatened with trespassing charges.

Addendum:

Many who attend gun shows are intensely private and simply don't want to be photographed without their permission, while still others, as suggested by psyopspec, would rather not be identified as gun owners.

While on private property with photography restrictions in place, photographers are obliged to abide by those restrictions unless they seek special permission to take photographs.

Anyone and everything exiting private property is subject to perfectly legal and permissible photography by anyone who is not on that private property.

Husker1911
March 4, 2012, 11:02 AM
What, pray tell, is the reason for posting your photos upon the forum?

Because you can? Great, pin a rose on your donkey.

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 11:05 AM
I did learn from this so good enough. The one inside is the only one against the rules but look at it and tell me if you can make out anyone, prices, etc...? I know I can't!

I hope people don't put everyone in the category as gun owners if they attend a gun SHOW. I know for a fact some attending this one were not and some entered just due to being an Outlet center with other shops all around.

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 11:07 AM
Husker I don't understand your question or you failed to understand mine or this thread. Move on... nothing to see here then.

xfyrfiter
March 4, 2012, 12:44 PM
Folks if you are paranoid about someone taking your picture, then wear a hat, sunglasses, shooting glasses etc. It is extremely difficult for anyone to positively identify you, with any of these items in place, and with the commonality of these items you will not look out of place. There is good reason banks require hats, and sunglasses to be removed.

AirForceShooter
March 4, 2012, 01:06 PM
Gun show promoter I go to (SunCoast) prohibits photo's at the show.
Outside thry don't have any authority.

They do enforce the rule

AFS

BlkHawk73
March 4, 2012, 06:09 PM
IMO, it's all due to a feeling of big brother seeing faces and associating those faces with a firearm - it's not concern or a privacy thing, it's a sense of "uh oh, the gov't will know I like, own, bought, whatever a gun". It's all those that are oh so proud and happy to brag about their guns now wanting to hide behind a veil of privacy and anonymity. So long as you're on public property, they can cry all they want, the same piece of paper that allows you and them to have those guns allows you to take the pictures. Once you're in their rented space though it's different. As for table pics, ALWAYS ask first.

CZguy
March 4, 2012, 06:59 PM
I have never really given any thought one way or another about photographs at a gun show. But after reading this thread I call on intercooler to delete the photos in post #8.

There is no good reason for them to be posted in my view. We can discuss the concept of photos at gun shows without intruding on anyone's privacy, by posting their photographs on the Internet.

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 07:05 PM
Damn unless I told you #8 has nothing that says guns anywhere. Go on Facebook any? For that matter do you venture to a store or public place any? WalMart, WaWa, MAC machine? Your photo or video of you are there. Seems silly to me.

CZguy
March 4, 2012, 07:14 PM
Damn unless I told you #8 has nothing that says guns anywhere. Go on Facebook any? For that matter do you venture to a store or public place any? WalMart, WaWa, MAC machine? Your photo or video of you are there. Seems silly to me.

I guess that means you feel the photographs are important to the thread. I will agree that we are photographed everywhere we go in a modern world. But (and it's a big but) this is supposed to be THR. Just because the rest of the world does it, doesn't mean we have to also.

Let me put it another way...........Please. :)

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 07:20 PM
They were just put up to show I didn't really understand the panties being in a bunch over what they contained.

Double Vision
March 4, 2012, 07:24 PM
Never mind gun shows, I don't want anyone taking my picture without my permission. Period.

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 07:31 PM
Double don't go outside then. It's being taken!

12gaugeTim
March 4, 2012, 07:58 PM
I was at a gun show in Charlotte and there was a booth with a golden desert eagle on it.. Took a picture right away. The Mk23 was tempting too. There were no signs prohibiting it and nobody said a word. What would they say to me anyways? "Sir! Yes you! Stop being impressed by my wares!"?
Could someone who has ran a booth and opposed photography politely (I sense high tensions) explain, with attention to detail, why it bothers you? Personally, I would find it complimenting if someone was doing that to my hypothetical booth, and if they send it to their friends, it could be good publicity. That being said, I've never ran a booth.
ETA: a lot of people are saying that they don't want people seeing their face with a gun in the picture. But the way I figure it, you would literally have to squat down and point the camera upwards to capture both the gun and the vendor's face. And shouldn't the government already know you're selling guns?

intercooler
March 4, 2012, 08:39 PM
Their isn't a gun owner one the Government don't know about or have info on that they own, etc... Except illegal owners.

35Rem
March 4, 2012, 10:09 PM
It's a Gun SHOW. They charge admission. If people come in, take pictures, then publish/share them, there is no reason to go to the Gun SHOW.

I'm sure that Gunbroker.com, etc, have taken a big chunk out of gun show organizers, too.

12gaugeTim
March 4, 2012, 10:58 PM
If I want to look at pictures of guns then I'll go on the Internet. It's an endless gun show if that's what you want to make it. If I want to buy a gun, or handle it in person, I'll pay the admission for the show. Pictures are surface-level and will never take the place of actually seeing and holding something. If someone thinks my horrible cell phone picture beats the real thing, then I doubt they'd pay admission for any type of show. Which leaves me with still no satisfying answer :(

X-Rap
March 4, 2012, 11:47 PM
My guess is that the OP is 25 or younger, I guess 20 or 30 yrs ago I did things that disturbed the sensibilities of my elders, it's a learning process.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 5, 2012, 12:42 AM
It's a Gun SHOW. They charge admission. If people come in, take pictures, then publish/share them, there is no reason to go to the Gun SHOW.
Exactly. If we already know what kind of jerky, crystal figurines, and Beanie Babies are there, we probably will just buy our jerky, crystal figurines, and Beanie Babies off the internet.

Owen Sparks
March 5, 2012, 01:01 AM
As I understand it you can be prohibited from taking pictures while on private property but not on public property like a street or sidewalk. You can also take pictures of private property provided you are standing on public property and can do so without tresspass.

Shadow 7D
March 5, 2012, 01:04 AM
HAVE YOU ALL FORGOTTEN BLUMBERG

lets not forget boomy berg and his illegal antics
how many people really want to be on 'Dateline' or some other such 'investigative' article about how anybody can buy a gun. The paranoia has a logical cause

wkumatt
March 5, 2012, 01:11 AM
Taking pictures of people, however legal it may be, strikes me as poor form and bad manners.
On the other hand I've photographed dozens of guns or other related items. Always with permission and usually because I liked a particular sight or other doo-dad and wanted to remember to research it later.

For those of you that have tables share this. At a show two weeks ago a gentleman allowed me to take several detailed photos of a Colt he had on his table. Way out of my league but a buddy of mine from church had asked me to watch for one. I emailed the pics from my phone to my friend who drove 30 miles right then to the show. That very pleasant gentleman made an $800 sale because of a gun show pic.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk

Ignition Override
March 5, 2012, 01:25 AM
Lots of people don't realize that hidden videos are taken at gun shows, and some people try to entrap others into making a sale without any background check.

YouTube might have had one such episode weeks ago.

If the anti-gun radicals did not use distortion and gross deception trying to make their case, it might not matter.

CapnMac
March 5, 2012, 02:26 AM
This is tricky territory whether at a show or not.

Cell phones are everywhere, to being so ubiquitous that there are debates on what are the earliest ages a person ought have one. Moore's Law has made a wealth of technology available in those phones, too.

At most concert venues there are similar posted bans for recording devices. But, those are virtually unenforceable. There are just too many phones, too many people using them, to actually wade into a concert crowd and stop that use. (It can be handy when that tall drunken boor lurches in front of you ata show, you can see what's going on from the camera he's waving about.)

I was at the Mesquite show on Saturday. It was a full crowd but not jammed-full. The venue had signage banning photography. However, so many people were 'on' phones, there was no way to tell if they were taking pictures, or playing angry birds, or texting or the like (some might have actually been making voice telephone calls <G>).

While I understand the need for privacy, and the desires for same by myself and others, I'm not sure our modern world, already so immersed in video and digital recording will much allow a great strictness in that privacy.

I say that, yet I'd be all in favor of having all restrooms equipped with phone nullification--too many call me from within such rooms, let alone engaged in some of the activities within--but, that is a different matter.

I did not see anything needing taking home at the Mesquite show--but I was there with no cash and overdrawn at the bank, great curbs to impulse spending. The EBR vendors were having their wares handled by all sorts of folk--made me wonder if they needed Purell instead of Hoppe's at the end of the day (I suppose Gun Scrubber would work too).

Biffj
March 5, 2012, 02:49 AM
For 12ga Tim post.....

I've run a booth at a lot of gun shows and I expressly ask those who are trying to take pictures not to do so. The reasons are just as others have stated. I don't want my picture taken or those of the guns I have on the table. Partly its due to the simple reasons the others mentioned....I don't like the idea of anti-gun idiots using my stuff to push their agenda. Pretty simple and since all of the shows I do except Knob Creeks machineguns shoot prohibit cameras or picture taking its easily within my rights to ask for no pictures.
The second reason is the result of the internet explosion in the last 10 years or so. I've had people take pictures of my guns and use them on the net to advertise stuff they don't have for the purpose of stealing money from unsuspecting folks. When someone finally tracks the pics down to my guns I'm the one who has to find a lawyer to keep from paying for the theft that was not my doing. I have had to do this on more than one occasion. For that reason my website photos are watermarked and I ask people not to take pictures at gunshows. Once again a simple reason and in my opinion very valid.
If you want to take pics of guns you can find a wider variety on the net posted by people who don't mind you looking or by taking pics at museums.
I try not to be rude to gun show attendees and I do explain the reason why I don't want them taking pictures.

Hope that explains well enough for you.


Frank

intercooler
March 5, 2012, 05:26 AM
I find some of the responses funny and some helpful. Never take a photo at a football game or NASCAR race. You for sure are going to get some innocents in one of your shots. Shame on you.

flaman
March 5, 2012, 05:31 AM
I've taken quite a few photos for my website (below) and have never had a problem. I've also never noticed a sign like you mention prohibiting photos

Panzercat
March 5, 2012, 06:15 AM
On private property they can make up whatever (lawful) rules they want. Out in public, however, you can take pictures because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in most cases. I'd still hunt down specifics on that, however.

Salmoneye
March 5, 2012, 07:04 AM
Their isn't a gun owner one the Government don't know about or have info on that they own, etc... Except illegal owners.

Quite the contrary...

The "Government" has no idea about a good number of the millions of legally owned firearms in this country...

Not all legal transfers of ownership have gone through an FFL, and many places still enjoy the right to buy and sell privately, give gifts, or to inherit, without the involvement of Big Brother...

ultradoc
March 5, 2012, 07:11 AM
I am not sure if I have seen anything about pic taking but I wouldn't mine took.

Lex Luthier
March 5, 2012, 07:44 AM
Maybe I'm just weird, but I believe we should all just mind our own business a lot more, which contradicts the ethics of modern instantaneous digital culture. If a camera flashed in my direction as I was checking out a weapon at a show, I would also corner the guy with the camera and make him delete it. Private property rights still mean something.

On the street anything goes, so keeping a low profile is de rigeur. We all have the right to be left alone.

Chris-bob
March 5, 2012, 11:45 AM
Only time I've taken a pic at a gun show was with the owners permission and only of the firearm of interest. Usually, it was a really cool firearm I wanted to remember. But that was back before cameras had phones built into them. Nowadays, I just write down the name of the firearm and look it up on the internet.

35Rem
March 5, 2012, 11:48 AM
Quote:
It's a Gun SHOW. They charge admission. If people come in, take pictures, then publish/share them, there is no reason to go to the Gun SHOW.

Exactly. If we already know what kind of jerky, crystal figurines, and Beanie Babies are there, we probably will just buy our jerky, crystal figurines, and Beanie Babies off the internet.

You guys realize that Gun Shows existed LONG before the Internets, Cell Phone Cameras, Beanie babies, etc, right? This was also before they were just a weekend stop for the local gun store to sell the same garbage they kept in their store, too.

I'm Serious. Gun Show promoters want bodies in the door. Gun Shows USED to have great old guns to see. Stuff you couldn't see in a once-a-month magazine (when there was maybe 3 in circulation) or your local Gun Shop. If you wanted to see cool stuff you had to GO. If they allow pictures to be taken, then people don't have to GO. Plain and simple.

This is an OLD rule that still exists for the same reasons. It's not about invading your privacy or selling someone else's gun. (Although that is happening now, but not way back then)

jim243
March 5, 2012, 12:10 PM
As far as taking photos of the crowd - at a gun show - do you really need the cliff notes on why that might tick some folk off?

Well, well, well it looks like this question hit a nerve.

First if it is in or on private property then it is up to the OWNER of the property if photos can or can not be taken. I have heard of very few, Zoos or Museums that do not allow photos. Gun shows? Well that's another story.

Actually, each and everyone's picture is taken about 100 times a day in most cities. Walk to the bank, smile. Fill that grocery list, smile. Get gas, smile. Buy a new pair of shoes, smile. Go to the evil Wal-Mart, smile your on candid camera. Buy a pack of cigarettes, smile and yes walkin to your favorate LGS or Cabela's, Gander Mt or Bass Pro and be sure to smile, you'r again on candid camera.

So, gun shows? What's the big deal or better yet, what are you trying to HIDE.
Jim

RudeMood
March 5, 2012, 12:17 PM
I went to a gun show in Texas this weekend and this came up. I brought my Ipod with the intention of taking notes with possible photo reference of items that I may see that were beyond my current financial status, but were budgeted for the near future.

Much to my dismay just inside the door there was a sign posted for no photos or recordings. I was confused to see a gentleman not 20 ft from that sign snapping pictures with what appeared to be a high quality camera. So I found myself wondering if there were exceptions to the rule or not. I had no intention of photographing people or prices, but even so I wasn't about to break the rules if i could avoid it out of politeness if nothing else. So it turns out, upon questioning the photographer and vendor he was snapping pictures of, that the vendor had no problems with pictures as long as he was notified of what and where the pictures were taken. Later that day I found some nice additions to my up and coming BOB, but the vendor there politely refused my request for close ups of the items in question. Alas, I took good notes on the digi-pad and moved on.

So, to reiterate what has been said already: Inside the building the building's owner has a legal right to post for no photos and enforce it. Outside of the building this holds only if there are the proper signs and you are on the same property. At the shows some vendors may make exceptions if asked, but taking pics of specific people or a crowd is bad form. Especially true if the building has the proper signage posted: these people have a valid right to expect not to be photographed.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 5, 2012, 12:22 PM
If a camera flashed in my direction as I was checking out a weapon at a show, I would also corner the guy with the camera and make him delete it.
If you're willing to risk an assault charge simply because of a camera flash caught out of the corner of your eye, you are certainly a man with whom to be reckoned!


Back to the thread, I've attended a number of professional conferences where attendees are, as a whole, far more secretive and concerned about privacy the vast majority of your gun show crowd. Those always have pretty strict photography rules. At the same time, when I've wanted to take pictures, I've only had a single time where someone I asked said no. Once, I was with someone who had a fairly professional rig and he was only stopped to make sure he wasn't taking press photos without a press pass. It turns out that if you aren't a jerk about it, most folks don't seem to care too much one way or the other.

I think it is also about community. If the photographer seems to be a gun guy, I suspect people will be more apt to allow pictures. If the photography seems to be an outsider looking for dirt for their next expose, the reception will likely be more cold.

jim243
March 5, 2012, 12:28 PM
Quote:
If a camera flashed in my direction as I was checking out a weapon at a show, I would also corner the guy with the camera and make him delete it.

If you're willing to risk an assault charge simply because of a camera flash caught out of the corner of your eye, you are certainly a man to be with whom to be reckoned!

Let me repeat, it is the OWNER of the property or his/her agent that has that right, NOT YOURS.

I hope you have enough money with for bail on a criminal assalt charge.
Jim

Shadow 7D
March 5, 2012, 01:28 PM
Side note
the anti's most likely WON'T have obvious camera, sorry but they are called hidden for a reason.

Panzercat
March 5, 2012, 01:38 PM
As an aside, I went down to the High Noon show about two month's back here in AZ. Old west stuff-- Plenty of spurs saddles and wonderfully engraved firearms. I paid admission and took my camera. Needless to say, I took pictures but I also asked every last vendor I stopped at if it was okay to do so first.

I got a 'yes' out of every last one of the dozen or so simply by being polite about it and asking before hand. I was also privy to some disgruntled off-hand comments about those who didn't in doing so. Be polite. Ask. You'll be surprised. If they say no, respect their wishes and move on.

SigMic
March 5, 2012, 01:46 PM
Well, well, well it looks like this question hit a nerve.

First if it is in or on private property then it is up to the OWNER of the property if photos can or can not be taken. I have heard of very few, Zoos or Museums that do not allow photos. Gun shows? Well that's another story.

Actually, each and everyone's picture is taken about 100 times a day in most cities. Walk to the bank, smile. Fill that grocery list, smile. Get gas, smile. Buy a new pair of shoes, smile. Go to the evil Wal-Mart, smile your on candid camera. Buy a pack of cigarettes, smile and yes walkin to your favorate LGS or Cabela's, Gander Mt or Bass Pro and be sure to smile, you'r again on candid camera.

So, gun shows? What's the big deal or better yet, what are you trying to HIDE.
Jim
Jim,

There are plenty of folks out there who desire some privarcy. Unfortunately, that is something most folks are quite happy to give up. It doesn't mean you are hiding anything to not want to be on everybody's video or in their photos.

DHJenkins
March 5, 2012, 02:05 PM
Sorry, folks, but parking lots are not public property; they're just as privately owned/maintained as the building(s) themselves.

To me, it's a matter of privacy & security. I wouldn't want someone taking my picture while purchasing a new rolex, either, as it would be a simple matter to follow me to my vehicle and get my license plate number, which would lead to my address, other vehicles I own, etc...

It is, after all, easy as pie to post a picture of video online with any sort of made-up story attached to it; and as they say, once it's on the 'net, it's there forever. Would you like to wind up as the poster child for an anti-gun campaign simpy because someone snapped a picture of you holding an "evil black rifle" with a big excrement eating grin on your face? I thought not.

As to the question "what do you have to hide?", my answer is this: None of your business. If I want to opt-in to the loss of privacy that an online life provides, I will. Until then, I have an expectation of privacy, whether someone's socialist "everyone should know everyone else's business" ideals agree with that or not.

mdauben
March 5, 2012, 03:00 PM
While I understand the need for privacy, and the desires for same by myself and others, I'm not sure our modern world, already so immersed in video and digital recording will much allow a great strictness in that privacy.
While I have no more wish for random people to be taking my photograph for undisclosed reasons than many others in this thread, the simple fact is that I have absolutly no expectations of privacy once I walk out of my front door. The wide spread presence of still and video photography (governmental, buisness or private citizens) in our current culture means you are a fool if you don't think you are being photographed every day.

Owen Sparks
March 5, 2012, 03:35 PM
As I understand it, they can prevent you from taking pictures only if you are physically on the property but if you are outside on public property like a street or sidewalk you can legally take pictures of anything you can see. This is based on the old English common law precedent that the eye cannot trespass. There have been plenty of court cases where people took pictures of celebrities at home from rented roof tops, boats and balconies. As long as the photographer is somewhere he can legally be there is nothing that they can do about it. You can even get away with looking in your neighbors window with a telescope provided you do not set foot on their property to do so.

Ultravox
March 5, 2012, 03:46 PM
Sorry, folks, but parking lots are not public property; they're just as privately owned/maintained as the building(s) themselves.

The parking lot may be private property, but if it is in view of the street or sidewalk then you have no expectation of privacy and it's not illegal to take photos of people or cars in the parking lot from the sidewalk.

Double Vision
March 5, 2012, 03:46 PM
Taking pictures of people, however legal it may be, strikes me as poor form and bad manners.

Exactly my point.

intercooler
March 5, 2012, 04:05 PM
Geesh now you have me looking lol. As soon as I walk out my door I have 4 cameras of my Neighbor's pointed at me taking video. Same when I return and that's just the start and end of the day! Are we to load and unload for our trips in darkness? I know I venture out and load/unload my car of guns and ammo in daylight in plain view of all my Neighborrs. Heck the UPS joked with my Fiance about another delivery of ammo for me one day. Guess I don't go to the extreme of wearing a hoodie, glasses and camo while out.

Interesting takes here. I will never take a phone with me again to such an event but I ran across at least one firearm that interested me but didn't have paper and pen. Next time I will bring those. Oh crap... hope they don't think I am writing down serial numbers!

CZguy
March 5, 2012, 04:15 PM
hope they don't think I am writing down serial numbers!

Good point, this thread seems to have really touched a nerve. But I don't think there will be any going back.

mgmorden
March 5, 2012, 04:56 PM
If a camera flashed in my direction as I was checking out a weapon at a show, I would also corner the guy with the camera and make him delete it.

If you're willing to risk an assault charge simply because of a camera flash caught out of the corner of your eye, you are certainly a man to be with whom to be reckoned!
Let me repeat, it is the OWNER of the property or his/her agent that has that right, NOT YOURS.

Even the owner of the property can't force the person to delete it. They merely can rescind their admittance and have them removed from the show. They cannot detain the person nor their property for a violation of a wall-sign.

Owen Sparks
March 5, 2012, 05:08 PM
There was a case once in my town where some guy climbed up on the roof of his house with a pair of binoculars so that he could watch his neighbor doing some nude sunbathing behind a fence. She saw him and called the police. It turned out that there was nothing they could do because he was on his own property. If he had taken pictures it would not have been any different. She exposed herself in view of his property had he had no legal duty to avert his eyes. If he had set foot on her property to get a better look he could have been charged with voyurism.

12gaugeTim
March 5, 2012, 05:49 PM
It's interesting to watch the attitudes on privacy change over time. I'm part of the "generation next" which may have lost all hope of a sense of privacy. I lurk on Facebook and I see all these statuses involving very personal relationship and family problems, and I can't help but wonder what makes a person think that such information should be made public. However, I don't mind my picture being taken, even if I am holding a gun.
I didn't consider someone using a picture from a gun show as a false representation of an item they are trying to sell on the Internet. I also envisioned pictures of the guns being taken facing vertically and of the gun alone, without anyone holding it or in the frame. From now on I'll know to ask before taking a picture, even if it's just off a cell phone to show to a friend.

psyopspec
March 6, 2012, 06:20 AM
the same piece of paper that allows you and them to have those guns allows you to take the pictures.

Are you contending that because a rude behavior is allowed that it ought to be engaged in?

What's the big deal or better yet, what are you trying to HIDE.

Nothing, comrad. Please don't call the Department of Fatherland Security on me. And remember, if you see something, say something.

Davek1977
March 6, 2012, 08:28 AM
Maybe I'm just weird, but I believe we should all just mind our own business a lot more, which contradicts the ethics of modern instantaneous digital culture. If a camera flashed in my direction as I was checking out a weapon at a show, I would also corner the guy with the camera and make him delete it. Private property rights still mean something.

Well, considering you just admitted you'd commit assault to protect your fictional "private property rights" some might consider you rather strange. As a common citizen, YOU have NO rights to FORCE anyone to do ANYTHING against their will. Attempting to force the issue would likely result in (perfectly valid and enforceable) assault charges being levied against you. What the organization holding the show can do...and what you can do on your own, aren't always the same things. You described an illegal assault almost to a "t". A flash bulb gonng off in your general direction gives no NO right to respond violently, nor does it allow the theft of that person's camera. Don't believe me? Try it sometime and see just how smoothly it works for you....

lloveless
March 6, 2012, 08:52 AM
I hadn't been to a gun show in years. I went to one in Dec.2010. I won't be going to another one. Prices too high(i had sold a gun and had cash in my pocket), too many people, and now no pictures. Have fun in your world, cause I won't be there! Me and my money stay local.

ny32182
March 6, 2012, 09:29 AM
If you don't want your picture taken, all you can do to prevent it is to never leave your house and black out the windows. Your picture is taken 8700 times on the way to the gun show, at the gun show, and on the way home from the gun show.

Also, if the govt is keeping a secret list of gun owners, you are reading/posting on this website... congratulations, you are already on it. :rolleyes:

Personally if I were trying to sell something, at a gun show or otherwise, I'd want as many pics as possible. And if I wanted to hide something, by definition I would not be putting it up for sale or bringing it to a place with thousands of people looking at it.

If the promoter "bans pictures", I would expect the only real reason at the end of the day is that they are somehow making money off their own photographer with some sort of exclusive press agreement.

Elkins45
March 6, 2012, 10:01 AM
One reason promoters want to control photos is because the antis use them to illustrate the prevalence of 'illegal' weapons that are available through the 'gun show loophole'.

Another reason is probably embarrassment: I rarely go to a big show here in KY where there isn't at least one collector of militaria who is displaying his prized Nazi flag or CSA battle standard. Taken out of context those items look really bad when pictured hanging above a table full of guns.

crracer_712
March 6, 2012, 10:08 AM
I've never seen a sign about photos at shows, but then I seldom look at the signs.

I've taken many pictures, at dealers tables with them watching, to send to friends to see if it is something they were talking about or maybe show them something I'd never seen before. No one has ever said anything to me.

ny32182
March 6, 2012, 10:17 AM
One reason promoters want to control photos is because the antis use them to illustrate the prevalence of 'illegal' weapons that are available through the 'gun show loophole'.

I doubt "Blum-burg" was using overt cameras for any of his shenanigans. A "photo ban" will do nothing to stop the wiley gunshow "loophole" investigative reporter. Simply following all applicable transfer laws would be the best course of action, and hopefully prosecuting the interstate "investigative reporters" for violating the laws that they are apparently violating.

Another reason is probably embarrassment: I rarely go to a big show here in KY where there isn't at least one collector of militaria who is displaying his prized Nazi flag or CSA battle standard. Taken out of context those items look really bad when pictured hanging above a table full of guns.

They don't look much better in context either. A gunshow is not a museum. It IS the wrong context.

SpeedAKL
March 6, 2012, 10:25 AM
Every gun show I've been to (which is the same few gun shows over and over) prohibits photography. I think it's annoying, but I understand why. To add a new spin to an old saying, there are lies, damn lies, and photos on the Internet. Us gun guys are not bothered by what we see at a gun show, but there is plenty of material on display at those shows for the media or anti-gun activists to manipulate into sensationalistic, inaccurate reports. In addition, there have been several cases where law enforcement ran undercover ops at gun shows without proper authority to do so.

jimmyraythomason
March 6, 2012, 11:16 AM
Another reason is probably embarrassment: I rarely go to a big show here in KY where there isn't at least one collector of militaria who is displaying his prized Nazi flag or CSA battle standard. Taken out of context those items look really bad when pictured hanging above a table full of guns. They don't look much better in context either. A gunshow is not a museum. It IS the wrong context. Since military arms and memorabilia are a big part of gun shows (both selling and collecting),I think that is the perfect context for them.

CZguy
March 6, 2012, 01:04 PM
I hadn't been to a gun show in years. I went to one in Dec.2010. I won't be going to another one. Prices too high(i had sold a gun and had cash in my pocket), too many people, and now no pictures. Have fun in your world, cause I won't be there! Me and my money stay local.

But, but, where to you get your jerky? :D

Dr.Rob
March 6, 2012, 03:01 PM
Been the policy of EVERY show I've been to.

I wish it wasn't because plenty of times I've found something I've never seen before, or wondered at the value of.

Still, even if a specific vendor said, "Sure, take a pic." The show organizer has said NO. We both have to play by the organizers rules.

mgmorden
March 6, 2012, 04:56 PM
I wish it wasn't because plenty of times I've found something I've never seen before, or wondered at the value of.

Yep. Never on a gun, but on lots of things I've collaborated with friends on a purchase before making it. My boat for example. When I was deciding on it I was able to snap a picture, send it to my dad, and get his opinion before I made a purchase decision.

Realistically, in this day and age 95% of people have a camera in their pocket that can digital transmit pictures to anyone else in seconds. They have become accustomed to communicating with people they know remotely and with pictures as a big part of that. A "no photos" sign anywhere makes about as little sense as possible in this day and age.

Cosmoline
March 6, 2012, 05:01 PM
Since military arms and memorabilia are a big part of gun shows (both selling and collecting),I think that is the perfect context for them.

Exactly. At the main local show half the tables are military static displays so sure I take pictures. Some fellow had a hand-made 30mm single shot cannon, which immediately went on my digital camera's card in extreme detail.

I think the paranoia level is much higher at some gun shows than others.

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun shows and taking a picture?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!