Taurus Revolver Stigma


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Pukindog12
March 4, 2012, 03:31 AM
My wife and I went to a gun show yesterday. Among other things we were looking for a small revolver as her CCW in .38 Special/.357 Magnum. We looked at S&Ws, Rugers, Tauruses, and other various inferior makes and she was always drawn to the Tauruses.

I know that Taurus semi-autos have a general stigma about them. Getting one is a roll of the dice as to whether you'll get a good one or bad one. And if you get a bad one, even though they have a lifetime warranty, dealing with their CS is a PITA.

What I'd like to know is if their revolvers have the same stigma. Not so much as their CS being awful but as to whether getting a revolver is a big crap shoot like their semi-autos?

TIA

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skidder
March 4, 2012, 03:42 AM
I think their revolvers are a bigger crap shot than their semi-autos.
You're better off with a Ruger Sp101.

oldfool
March 4, 2012, 06:53 AM
I would urge you to be more specific on vintage and model numbers you are looking at.

The revolver forum is no different than the autoloader forum, in this regard.
There are numerous brand love/hate wars, notably on Taurus brand, but not exclusively so, not hardly. It gets pretty obnoxious at times.
If you can keep it focused on a a much narrower range, you will get a lot better advice, and a lot less angst.

Kindly name the specific models in each brand you find most appealing, and note as NIB vs used.

thanks

CajunBass
March 4, 2012, 07:09 AM
All I can tell you is I've owned three Taurus revolvers over the years. They all worked just as designed. Never had a bit of problem with them.

Now, I made no effort to wear them out, I just took them shooting.

ArchAngelCD
March 4, 2012, 07:23 AM
I do not hate any gun or gun company. BUT, there are so many bad stories about Taurus revolver that I would not trust my life on one. I will also not trust my life on some S&W revolvers either. cough "lock" cough

When it comes to firearms, musical instruments and a few other things, you do get what you pay for. When you buy a cheap revolver you usually end up with a cheap revolver. (in general) I own both a S&W M642 and M442 and both are totally reliable so I will carry them for SD. A friend owns a 6" Taurus .22 revolver that's a clone of the S&W M17 and it's every bit as good as the hand fitted M17 and possible better so not all Taurus revolver are dogs. But, there are many Taurus revolvers that are. Are you willing to take that chance?

I would trust the current Charter Arms revolvers more than Taurus. I said current, not the older ones and especially the Charter Arms 2000 guns. But again, the very old Charter Arms revolver were great American firearms. Now that the Ecker family are back at the helm the QC and firearms are again very good.

This is all my opinion and you know what they say about opinions....

oldfool
March 4, 2012, 08:43 AM
"you do get what you pay for"
absolutely

"A friend owns a 6" Taurus .22 revolver that's a clone of the S&W M17 and it's every bit as good as the hand fitted M17"
You now have two friends that share that experience.. but that is at least a 25 year old gun, maybe 30, bought NIB, model 96, rarely seen in the wild, goes nicely with my pair of k-17s.
Those are the kind of specific model head-to-head experiences I put far more faith in than brand warz.

Me not a fan of either Charter or Taurus, within context of vague brand statements.
Having seen way way too many of both I looked at close enough to walk away from, I don't waste much of my own time looking at them anymore. I do hope the Eckers can earn some loyalty though, "the old fashioned way".
The all-steel Taurus 85s I have looked at, and a couple I have shot (but do not own), I would look at seriously, not buy blind folded.
(my own comparison basis for the 85s is my S&W model 60 snubbie, likewise bought NIB decades ago)

Stainz
March 4, 2012, 10:47 AM
Oops. I thought the Taurus Stigma was a new model... never mind!

I initially avoided the brand due to their inclusion of a port on nearly everything. Later, after several friends had less than stellar experiences, I felt villified in my avoidance. I have fewer firearms, but I buy new S&Ws when I can. A late friend had a new blued 7-shot .357M - a '67', I believe - that I resprung/regripped. Parts and everything, he had ~$350 in it. He carried and shot +P .38s from it - never a problem. It wasn't a 686P, for sure, but he bought it for a lot less than a used 686P runs. His other Taurus examples weren't as noteworthy - particularly his five shot 4" .45 ACP Tracker.

My other experiences are from my time at a public range as a RO. I guess the happiest Taurus owners I've met usually have an 85 snubby .38 - and shoot 'it enough to familiarize themselves with it, then leave it loaded at home or in their car. They do always seem to work well enough when they bring it to the range. The similar Rossis and Charter Arms examples seem to spit a bit more from the b/c gap than the Taurus examples. Taurus triggers can be 'improved' somewhat, if you can find someone to respring them. In general, they don't smooth out quite like a S&W will with some use. Their factory service is reportedly slow. YMMV.

Stainz

JR47
March 4, 2012, 04:59 PM
Here we are again, "reportedly", "had a friend", "heard about".

My own experience with Taurus handguns, from the mid-1980's to current is one of 100% success.

As for checking them, anyone who doesn't check out ANY new gun is a fool. Next time you're at a Gun Show, start looking closely at the various makes and models. You'll be surprised, and not happily, at the lack of QC from purportedly "superior" manufacturers.

Even the die-hard S&W fan-boys are now, when pressed, telling everyone that they're talking about "older models".

Check the gun out prior to purchase. Clean it thoroughly, lube it, THEN go shoot it. Common sense trumps brand hate every time.:)

MCgunner
March 4, 2012, 05:19 PM
Yet another bash opportunity....:rolleyes: I like mine, all I'll say. They're very reliable and accurate and function fine.

jimniowa
March 4, 2012, 08:06 PM
Taurus has had some issues, as do others in the bus. If this is a gun for your wife or you, you need to determine if you can shoot a smi auto pistol.My neighbor is a 30 something year old, ave build and shooting my 92 FS he has consistant jams. My wife has the same problem, they are limp wristers. Given a revolver or a .22rim fire auto they do fine. For SD or HD a revolver is way more effective for casul shooters and they will have more confidense in this firearm. Nothing against autos as I carry one, but there maybe a time it may not feed correctly even with factory loads and a experienced shooter will handle this in a second. My wife carries and shoots on regular basis a Ruger LCR in .38+p ammo 125g hp in the summer and 158 jfp in the winter, ( the predators here in OZ in the winter wear fur coats and like) We practice on 10" paper targets free hand looking at dot the size of silver dollar.
Jim

huskybiker
March 4, 2012, 08:40 PM
I own (and carry) a Taurus 85UL and a Rossi 462 (mfg by Taurus). both guns have been 100% from day one. The 85 has about 500 rounds through it. The Rossi has over 2000. No problem from either.

knockonit
March 4, 2012, 08:47 PM
Yep this. usual bashers are those that heard, and never shot or owned. jmo

Sebastian the Ibis
March 4, 2012, 10:51 PM
J&G sales has PD trade in .38 Tarus revolvers. I don't know who issued them, but some PD did. I was actually thinking about ordering one.

dampoo
March 4, 2012, 10:55 PM
I picked up a Taurus 94 .22lr and S&W 617 at the local gun store. Pulled the trigger in DA on each. Put the Taurus down and never looked at it again.

gunlaw
March 4, 2012, 11:22 PM
I had a model 82. Shot the snot out of it and I wish i still had it. Currently have a model 85. Only problem with that gun is that my wife won't give it back.

RalphS
March 4, 2012, 11:33 PM
I had a model 608. It had timing problems and was shaving lead. Sent it back to Taurus. When it came back it was still shaving lead.

That was my last Taurus.

Tomcat47
March 4, 2012, 11:56 PM
No Problems with mine! I own several models of Taurus revolvers and autos...

Carry Mod 85 Ultra lite and 905 on daily basis. +100

There Stigma evolve from sheer volume in my opinion! And I know I will get blasted for that statement....And Do not really care.

Unfortunately if you based problems on volume of firearms sold...right now I would see Kimber near the top of list...which is sad..beautiful firearms!

I will dig and see if I can find some numbers on the net??? Do not suppose any manufacturer would want these numbers to be out though?

The Stigma with Taurus Interest me due to actual numbers of them I have owned with but a couple (very minor problems), both of whiich were fixed under warranty without sending firearm back.

I have seen a model 94 with timing issues...it was not new?? All my revolvers present ad past were 100% as well as autos. The two parts ordered under warranty were slide stop for 1911 and extractor for a 92 9mm with a lot of rounds through it.

Stacer
March 5, 2012, 12:01 AM
My 85 is as smooth as my pre 18 smith, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another taurus

hang fire
March 5, 2012, 12:03 AM
Over the years all firearm companies have had their share of product problems. Ruger comes to mind for always rushing guns into production, then having to discontinue them when problems develope. I bought a Colt Python which proved to be a piece of junk. Some Walther clones are are better than the gun they copied. IMO Browning Hi-Powers are nortorious for having problems.

I have owned many different handguns and brands over the decades, most all were great pieces, but some were simply no good at all.

The wife has three older all steel Bersa acp models and they are great little pistols. She has a Taurus Judge and it is an excellent revolver. I have a big, clunky looking and heavy Ruger P90 DC .45 acp, for all those faults, would put it up against any of the competition for feed most anything reliability and accuracy.

So for the most part, when it comes to firearms, it all boils down to likes and dislikes

Tomcat47
March 5, 2012, 12:11 AM
Very true hangfire.... I have just always felt that the stigma versus quantity I have owned never added up...or I am just above lucky?? But my lotto experience does not prove that theory either...:scrutiny:

And I had one of those Ruger in 9mm....P89! Man that thing was kinda ugly, but it was a tank! Never a hiccup!

joneb
March 5, 2012, 12:40 AM
I had a Taurus SS 85 2" :( I bought a S&W 36 and took my wife shooting with both of these guns, she now has the 85. I put 800-1000 rnds though the 85 and a maybe 200 were +P the gun has been flawless and if it wasn't I'd suspect the ammo.
I bought the 85 new in the early 90's for $240

Salmoneye
March 5, 2012, 08:49 AM
While I will not deny that fit and finish is not up to S&W standards of old, I can not say that I have had a bad experience with Taurus...

I have a model 94-4 that goes bang every time the trigger is pulled, and it puts the bullet where it is aimed...

XD 45acp
March 5, 2012, 09:02 AM
I bought a Taurus snub .38 (Model 85 ???, maybe ) back in the 90's. Fuction was fine, and finish was good. Packed & shot it for a long time without a minutes problem. Let my Mother in law have it for her home, and I got a Smith. I can't make a legitimate fuss about it. For the money I gave for it, it was OK.

Onward Allusion
March 5, 2012, 09:13 AM
Pukindog12
Taurus Revolver Stigma

I have 7 Taurus revolvers and had a few more than that over the years. Every one of them work as intended. I can't say this of their dang Taurus semi-autos. I hated my Taurus semis, except for the PT92.

The thing about revolvers is that they either work or not. You'll very likely find out in the first box of ammo. Like a couple of the other guys said - Taurus quality depends on the vintage - and I am just talking revolvers here. Ones made up until the 80's to the mid 90's were pretty decent. One can really notice the difference in quality (mostly fit and finish) in the ones from the last 5 years. BTW, I don't ever shoot +P rounds through mine...

mgkdrgn
March 5, 2012, 09:31 AM
My wife and I went to a gun show yesterday. Among other things we were looking for a small revolver as her CCW in .38 Special/.357 Magnum. We looked at S&Ws, Rugers, Tauruses, and other various inferior makes and she was always drawn to the Tauruses.

I know that Taurus semi-autos have a general stigma about them. Getting one is a roll of the dice as to whether you'll get a good one or bad one. And if you get a bad one, even though they have a lifetime warranty, dealing with their CS is a PITA.

What I'd like to know is if their revolvers have the same stigma. Not so much as their CS being awful but as to whether getting a revolver is a big crap shoot like their semi-autos?

TIA
Actually, I've found neither to be true.

I've been very happy with all of the Taurus firearms I've owned.

One Taurus 450 I bought with a known problem. Sent it off to Taurus, got it back 10 days later all fixed and ready to go.

Guillermo
March 5, 2012, 10:10 AM
interesting how reputations work

Just like everyone, Taurus is building revolvers with injection molded parts so as to cut costs.

Since Taurus doesn't have a fine, well respected name to ride into the dirt their reputation suffers.

Add the fact that those lemons are oft not handled well by customer service.

So the people with reason to complain, complain loudly, hurting their reputation even more.

Depending on the model, Taurus is no better or worse than anything else. But you would never know it by reputation.

460Kodiak
March 5, 2012, 10:14 AM
I've had three really bad Taurus revolver experiences with guns I've shot personally, but were owned by two friends. I will never buy a Taurus product of any kind, or from any of their other companies like Rossi. I'm not sure if they own anything else. JMO and my own personal experience with their products.

MMCSRET
March 5, 2012, 10:30 AM
Have had great service from my first "T" gun, a Model 441. I am the 4th owner and the gun is 20 years old, I've had it 10 years. It is accurate, reliable and a pleasure to hand load and shoot. I average a thousand rounds a year thru it, so it has had well over 10,000 rds thru it. My second "T" gun is a 2010 Model 327B2 in 327 Federal magnum. I've put 1200 round thru it, works, looks, feels good. I have every reason to trust Taurus, they have never failed me, can't say the same for a couple other "quality" products from the good ole US of A.

PapaG
March 5, 2012, 10:40 AM
In general, and these are opinions formed through the ownership of about a dozen Tauruses and the sales/service of a couple hundred more:
A. The later small framed revolvers have given us more problems than any other brand...uniformly bad trigger pulls, poor locking bolt/cylinder fit, and some headspace issues..both 85s and 94s.
B. Most of the autos worked fine. Some of the Milleniums, not many, had feed issues.
C. Large Revolvers, Trackers, Raging stuff, seem to last a long time and have pretty good actions...my Tracker 17 is the most accurate revolver I've ever owned.
D. First Judges had vastly oversize chamber throats and leaded worse than anything in my 67 years of experience.
I own a couple. I'm keeping them. Most, however, I got rid of and replaced with Smiths, Rugers and Colts.

Lee D
March 5, 2012, 10:44 AM
my experience with Taurus is this: id MUCH sooner carry a revolver than one of their semi autos. now im basing this on guns i owned/shot over 8 years ago, so things might have changed.

Frank V
March 5, 2012, 07:47 PM
I would look at it on a gun by gun basis. I'd look it over carefully, check for timing, lockup, smoothness, how the crane fits the frame, & the other things we look for on any used or new gun.
I had a Taurus Tracker .44 Mag for a year or so & it was a good gun. I sold it because I really didn't like the ported bbl, & the Ribber stocks. It shot well & was accurate.
Frank

skidder
March 5, 2012, 08:50 PM
The problems with Taurus are evident in their negative feedback. Far more complaints than any other manufacturer. I'm not "bashing" just reporting the truth. They do make some descent firearms, but the "good to bad" ratio is way to high. The reason for this is their QC and CS. They don't stop the bad from going out the door! For this same reason the guns that are sent in don't get fixed. I've had two that went bad. I sent one in for repairs only to have it come back not fixed. There was no excuse for the condition of my gun when it arrived at my door step.

Again....I don't think it's their guns (the good ones), but their poor QC that lets the defects out the door! If they would stop letting defects slide past the front gates there would be a lot less of this so called "bashing".

DesertFox
March 5, 2012, 09:16 PM
Many Taurus semis and wheels over the years here for me. A 669 4" 357 Mag has been a sweet shooter ever since I got it. A 44 8 3/8" has bagged quite a few large 4 legged furries. A model 94 4" has a nice trigger after many, many firings and many, many gophers. A model 94 2" is my new snub practice gun and while the trigger was hellish at first, it is breaking in and slicking up nicely without replacing springs. A 856 Hy-Lite I just got has quickly become my favorite little lightweight pocket 6 shooter.

2 PT-22 I had came apart and Taurus CS replaced them with my requested Model 94 and Model 44. I have a PT92C that is rugged and reliable as were all the other 9mm models I used to have.

I've made use of CS at Taurus, S&W, Ruger, Marlin. Guns are machines that break or can be imperfect no matter whose name is on it.

Ruger Redhawk
March 5, 2012, 10:08 PM
My one and only experience with Taurus was a M85 Ultra lite. I believe that's what it was. I know it was a 38 spl snubbie. I bought it brand new for the wife as her carry gun. I took her to the range. She shot the cylinder full of rounds and handed it back to me. Then I noticed that on 3 of the chambers the cylinder would not lock. I had the hammer back and it would still rotate. I took it back to the dealer I got it from. He sent it to Taurus. It was back in a timely manor. I then traded it in on a S&W M637. For those of you that are happy with your Taurus's I'm happy for you. I will never buy another one.

MCgunner
March 5, 2012, 11:26 PM
Again....I don't think it's their guns (the good ones), but their poor QC that lets the defects out the door!

Yeah, I no that's not a problem at Smith and Wesson....</sarcasm>

Guillermo
March 6, 2012, 12:47 AM
that's not a problem at Smith and Wesson

I want everyone to note that I DIDN'T SAY IT!!!




McGunner is a smart guy and with an 1100 Kaw mill on his mower, he is done with the lawn and to the range faster than anyone

no_agenda
March 6, 2012, 04:02 AM
Owned a Taurus .357, never had any problems with it. But...once you feel the difference between a Taurus and a finely built S&W revolver...you can appreciate the quality that S&W has put into their guns.

theicemanmpls
March 6, 2012, 04:24 AM
I am not aware of one agency contract awarded to Taurus.

Taurus firearms make great range guns. If they fail, you simply put them back in the case, and go home. Throwing it in the river is an option.

Any make and model of firearm will fail. More so if not properly maintained.

I have shot, and handled several of the Taurus products. Some work great. To many of the others have issues.

My spouse wanted millennium 9mm in pink. It is a dandy pink gun that never gets fired. The fit and finish are a lower quality. The trigger pull is not the best. IMHO, it was a waste of hard earned money.

For duty, or ccw, I would not carry one.

MMCSRET
March 6, 2012, 10:59 AM
I have had phone and email dealings with several gun companies, most are very responsive, Taurus has been very good at answering my questions, responding with call backs etc. Most of the companies are good but currently I becoming very frustrated with the lack of responses and failure to follow thru from S&W. Right now I'd trade dealing with S&W once for 25 or so dealings with Taurus or any other gun company. Right now S&W is at the top of my "precarious position" list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guillermo
March 6, 2012, 11:08 AM
I am not aware of one agency contract awarded to Taurus

Are you aware of Taurus competing for one?

Byrd666
March 6, 2012, 11:14 AM
Pukindog12

My experience with the Taurus revolver has been a very good one so far. I have a 66B4, a 7 rnd. .357 with a 4" barrel. So far, with about 500 r so rounds through it, it has been reliable and very accurate. Now that the double action is loosening up, it's almost perfect.

Now as far as the Taurus Customer Service goes, they are the worst in the industry. My opinion only. I've heard from various shops and shooters that they've gotten nothing but hassle after hassle dealing with them. I called one day to inquire about the history of my revolver, even knowing it has never been out of my possession, and the first words from them were, "You're not cleaning you gun enough." This was on more than one occasion. And I never did get my question answered.

JimStC
March 6, 2012, 11:27 AM
I really like my Judge. It is the first model 4410 which runs the 2.5" shells. Blued Ultra-Lite model.
I'd shoot it more if .410 ammo wasn't so expensive. Even with that said I have 300+ rounds with zero problems.
It is my truck gun loaded with 1/5 oz slugs.

Haywood
March 6, 2012, 12:55 PM
If you read enough of these Forums you will find problems with most any Gun. I have written this on so many of them I can't remember ware. I have worked in Gun Shops for more than Ten Years and have sent all makes and models of guns in for repairs. I personally have had to send a Smith & Wesson, Para Ordnance, and Taurus back for repair.
Taurus and Smith took care of me with no problems and quickly. It took Para a year but, they did give me a new Gun. So, take my info for what it is worth and go with your gut and buy what you like. Anything mechanical can break. I have had more good Guns than bad from Taurus.

Nakanokalronin
March 6, 2012, 02:30 PM
I've handled quite a few NEW & USED Taurus revolvers over the past few years and every single one has the timing off. Pull back the hammer and hold it, squeeze trigger, let down hammer while holding back trigger and wiggle the cylinder.Do this for every cylinder and I guarantee that every notch will be looser then a Ruger or S&W that has had thousands of rounds through it and every notch will have a different amount of play. This is my experience, not a "he said" or "I heard it from this guy who knows a guy".

old4x4
March 6, 2012, 02:55 PM
I bought a brand new Model 444 Ultralight in .44 Mag and didn't shoot it right away. When I did shoot it, I noticed the barrel had a slight twist and that the sight was, therefore cocked. I had my local gunshop send it back and in 2 weekss it came exactly the same. No change. They agreed with me that nothing had been done and back it went. It came back with the problem fixed after a nasty call from both me and the local shop. The day it came back fixed, I traded the piece of sh1t in. I never brought it home. Poor manufacturing and poor customer service.
On the other hand, I have a couple of their revolvers, that, while great for plinking, do not function well enough to trust my life with.

Onward Allusion
March 6, 2012, 03:17 PM
Nakanokalronin
I've handled quite a few NEW & USED Taurus revolvers over the past few years and every single one has the timing off. Pull back the hammer and hold it, squeeze trigger, let down hammer while holding back trigger and wiggle the cylinder.Do this for every cylinder and I guarantee that every notch will be looser then a Ruger or S&W that has had thousands of rounds through it and every notch will have a different amount of play. This is my experience, not a "he said" or "I heard it from this guy who knows a guy".

Timing off or looser fit? Big difference. I do agree you with that T's aren't generally as tight as a S&W or Ruger. Nevermind Colts.

coolluke01
March 6, 2012, 03:20 PM
Taurus Stigma. I thought that was a name of a new revolver they were coming out with. It would be fitting.
I have owned a taurus tracker and I had nothing but problems with it. I sent it back several times and never had a good experience with their customer service.

Not worth the risk as far as I'm concerned.

KevininPa
March 6, 2012, 03:47 PM
Now I have one. Bought a blued 605 that is fantastic. Liked it so much that I bought a stainless one. Not so fantastic, went to Taurus CS not just once but twice. And before someone says it, yes, I checked it out before putting my money down even though it was brand new. Would I buy another one? Probably a used one that I could shoot first, in a FTF private deal. Actually looking for a 94 or a Charter Pathfinder snub for cheap .22 snub practice. I can't afford a Smith .22, even used. It seems like Taurus can produce a good gun (like my blued 605. That's a gem!), they just can't seem to do it consistently. Makes you wonder, is it the workers or the machinery? Maybe my SS 605 was made during Rio-Carnival, kinda like how we joke about products made on Mondays and Fridays! Who knows. Just my two cents.

Nakanokalronin
March 6, 2012, 05:10 PM
Timing off or looser fit? Big difference. I do agree you with that T's aren't generally as tight as a S&W or Ruger. Nevermind Colts.
Timing is off. I've seen lead shavings on the cones of a few Taurus revolvers NIB. They don't know how to time a revolver correctly nor do they know how to be consistent in the lock up.

coolluke01
March 6, 2012, 06:01 PM
Timing was the problem I had with mine. It was shaving lead so bad I couldn't shoot it. Stuck a piece of lead in my brother in law 30' behind me! Not a safe gun. Sent it back 3 times and it never was fixed. Sold it to someone with more patience than me. He sent it back and I never heard about it after that.

BLJimmy
March 6, 2012, 07:39 PM
I have to recommend biting the bullet (not literally) and going with a Smith.

theicemanmpls
March 6, 2012, 07:48 PM
Are you aware of Taurus competing for one?
No, not aware if Taurus would even bother with a large agency. After all the criteria is quite extensive, to protect the public, and the officer.

Maybe some small town in the sticks such as Mayberry?

Of course then there is that ugly billboard Taurus puts on the side of their autos.

To me, spending at least $300, then having to send your new tool back to the factory several times, would just suck. I would much prefer to spend more $ on something that is pleasing to the eye, and is functional.

vaeevictiss
March 6, 2012, 07:51 PM
About 5 or 6 years ago i bought a taurus millennium pro in .40 to be used as a carry weapon but after consistent jams with the thing i realized i couldn't trust my life to it. I ended up trading it in for an xd40 and couldn't be happier.

Now last year i picked up a taurus judge just for the novelty of it and i love the thing. I mainly keep it on me for the occasional snake i come across while mowing the lawn or doing yard work. After running a few hundred rounds thru it; 45lc and 410 mixed, and not a single malfunction, it found it's home in my center console.

I still carry the xd but the judge is just easier to get to while sitting and buckled.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Guillermo
March 6, 2012, 08:42 PM
No, not aware if Taurus would even bother with a large agency

to my knowledge Taurus does not compete in the US market for LEO contracts.

If this is the case, using that as a criteria for judging quality is not pertinent.


(They do in other nations as Bud's or one of those companies has police trade in Tauri revolvers for sale)

As to the billboard, I loathe it too.

The worst offender, in my opinion, is Ruger. The SP101 has a certain appeal, but the warning label is pathetic

JR47
March 6, 2012, 09:02 PM
We have people spouting off about how Taurus has "so many more" repairs than other companies. How do you know that? Is there some actual, factual, numbers that can be used? Or is this more Internet Myth?

True story, about two weeks ago, I went to our LGS. While there, I asked the gunsmith about a trigger-job on my old Colt Series 80. He told me that he had enough work trying to find S&W revolvers that weren't out of time. He had ordered six, and three of them he couldn't, ethically, sell. They were going back. He said that the other three, weren't quite as bad, but were nowhere near what he had come too expect from the company.

I love to think about someone going from shop to shop and inspecting Taurus revolvers one after another for "late timing". If they are all identical, perhaps it's not the guns with the problem? Like the guy on another bashing thread, who feels that two failures out of a thousand rounds in a new gun is a reason to be rid of it, I'm thinking that this is more Fantasy than fact.

theicemanmpls
March 6, 2012, 09:12 PM
They do in other nations as Bud's or one of those companies has police trade in Tauri revolvers for sale)

What nations issue the Taurus?

Onward Allusion
March 6, 2012, 09:46 PM
^^^
I think he was referring to the current flood of Taurus Model 82 4" revolvers with the lanyard ring from South American LE agencies. They look pretty worn, BTW.

Personally, I have not seen or heard of any large LE agencies in the US issue T's to their Officers. I do know of some LEOs who have T's as their carry weapon, but they're with PD's that let 'em buy their own equipment through a stipend.

skidder
March 6, 2012, 10:36 PM
The worst offender, in my opinion, is Ruger. The SP101 has a certain appeal, but the warning label is pathetic
Never knew it was there till you just mentioned it. Ya, that does kinda suck.
I wonder....:rolleyes:.... what the penalty is for removing it. We all know what happens when you cut the tag off a mattress.:scrutiny:

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc456/exlogger/Instructions.jpg

Guillermo
March 6, 2012, 11:33 PM
I think he was referring to the current flood of Taurus Model 82 4" revolvers with the lanyard ring from South American LE agencies.

Yes

I have not looked into them so cannot answer as to nations they are from.

South America is, I think, where they are from.

LTR shooter
March 6, 2012, 11:34 PM
A friend owns a 6" Taurus .22 revolver that's a clone of the S&W M17 and it's every bit as good as the hand fitted M17 and possible better so not all Taurus revolver are dogs.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/celestron4/grips003.jpg

My one and only Taurus , the 96 , I took a chance since the price was low enough. Turned out to be money well spent. Great shooting revolver although the SA trigger is not nearly as crisp as a Smith.

Although for a carry revolver I went with a Smith 642 recently.

Jim NE
March 7, 2012, 12:01 AM
Since Rossi (which is currently owned by Taurus) has been dragged into the fray, I guess I better step up.

My old Rossi M88 has the best cylinder lockup of ANY da revolver I've ever owned, and I currently have 7 Smith and Wessons from their classic post-war era (Late 1940's to early 1980's.) Very accurate for a snubbie, and totally reliable.

Do I like it better than my S&W's? No.

Do I like it as much as my old S&W's? Certainly do.

It's functional quality is equal to just about all of them. Keep in mind, mine is from before Taurus owned them, but the point is that although guns are made of identical metal parts on an assembly line, they each should be judged by their own individual merit. That doesn't make it easy for the customer, as it's usually difficult to try them out first.

It's hard to find an old S&W that doesn't work, which is why they're legendary, but there are other good guns out there.

Nakanokalronin
March 7, 2012, 12:18 AM
I love to think about someone going from shop to shop and inspecting Taurus revolvers one after another for "late timing".

Not sure if your referring to me or someone else, but I didn't go to every local store looking at Taurus revolvers, however 100% of the Taurus revolvers I've handled have had bad timing, loose tolerances and inconstant sloppy lock-up. If you want a number, I can guess at least 30-40 different models from the little snubs, Raging Bull, Judges and many others. Sorry, in my experience it's not just a model or two, but the entire line-up. When I find one built to any sort of acceptable quality, I'll let you know.

ETA: To be perfectly honest, I think the only reason Taurus stays in business is because people want to save money thinking they're getting something that's "good enough". Then you have the people that actually think toy like gold plating looks good on their pimp guns. Finally, it's the gimmicky guns that people think are unique and cool because they're different. If they focused more on making quality handguns/revolvers over gold plating their parts, they might be respected more.

I'd take a Hi-Point over any Taurus. Sure, they're ugly, top heavy,feel like a cordless drill,have a slide made out of Matchbox car material but at least they work like they're suppose to.

oldfool
March 7, 2012, 08:03 AM
pretty gun there LTR, like my own, other than I still run the original wood on mine
extreme accurate, excellent DA trigger
so... I guess that makes three of us (in just one thread), but... sorry.. you and Archangel are not allowed to count me, because you know, that would be -

Here we are again, "reportedly", "had a friend", "heard about".

and you surely don't want to be contributing to the mythology, you know, aka the VAST INTERNET CONSPIRACY to mislead gun buyers about Taurus products
(or do that gate only swing one way ???)

those T-82 beaters from SA just might be pretty decent shooters, I dunno, likely older vintage stuff from back when Taurus was more focused on emulating the highly regarded S&W k-frames
I do hear from on High Authority that Peruvians are wild for 'em, so sez Quicks draw ... or mebbe it was weregunner, I sometimes do confuse 'em with one another
so, maybe the Peruvians have made the switch to autoloaders only
(if anybody here really cares what Peruvian LEOs carry)

PS
alas, my own experience too closely mirrors that of co-conspirator Nakanokalronin, on most of Taurus current revolver lineup
(not all, but most)
carrying forward the mythology mission is a dirty, rotten, thankless task, but somebody's got to do it
better us than taurusarmed.net, I reckon

oldfool
March 7, 2012, 08:19 AM
JR47
you ever decide what price you are going to sell off those crappy S&Ws of your own ?

I might know some folks interested. ;)

TarDevil
March 7, 2012, 11:36 AM
Not sure if your referring to me or someone else, but I didn't go to every local store looking at Taurus revolvers, however 100% of the Taurus revolvers I've handled have had bad timing, loose tolerances and inconstant sloppy lock-up....
ETA: To be perfectly honest, I think the only reason Taurus stays in business is because people want to save money thinking they're getting something that's "good enough". Then you have the people that actually think toy like gold plating looks good on their pimp guns. Finally, it's the gimmicky guns that people think are unique and cool because they're different.

If ALL their guns were this poor and your reasons stated alone keeps Taurus in business, how do they remain profitable?

I'm a businessman. This is 101 stuff... your evaluation wouldn't keep them in business, much less profitable.

I don't deny they aren't as quality firearms as some others, but "100%" would fold their tents in short order.

MCgunner
March 7, 2012, 12:26 PM
Never knew it was there till you just mentioned it. Ya, that does kinda suck.
I wonder........ what the penalty is for removing it. We all know what happens when you cut the tag off a mattress.


Hell, that's a short billboard. You oughta see the ones on my 4 5/8" and 6.5" Blackhawks. Like reading a damned book! I had my .45 stainless 4 5/8" engraved, but I didn't bother with the barrel cause that billboard just messes the whole idea up. :rolleyes: It turned out nice, though. :D

Nakanokalronin
March 7, 2012, 01:52 PM
If ALL their guns were this poor and your reasons stated alone keeps Taurus in business, how do they remain profitable?

I'm a businessman. This is 101 stuff... your evaluation wouldn't keep them in business, much less profitable.

I don't deny they aren't as quality firearms as some others, but "100%" would fold their tents in short order.
Because they sell them cheap enough to keep them moving for those that just want a gun that's "good enough". There are other firearm manufactures making cheap guns that always get bad reviews, yet people keep on buying them just because they look different then anything else and sell at prices lower then it's quality competitor.

I've seen more first time purchasers, or people that have done no research really consider Taurus products. Search, visit forums and look at archives from years past and I'll bet Taurus is the #1 firearm manufacture with the most complaints about quality, fit,finish, reliability and customer service. If your a business man, tell me how a company with years and years of complaints stays in business if its not about their gimmicky products, gaudy chrome/gold guns and cheap prices? There are tons of new or first time purchasers that do not go on gun forums. Even people that own firearms may never read reviews or look online for feedback about certain products. If your looking for a gun and know nothing about them, you would think a $300 Taurus would be good enough over the $500 S&W right next to it. There are also plenty of people (even "gun nuts") that buy guns, shoot 100-200 rounds through a gun and have them sit in a safe,car,pocket or drawer for the rest of its life. I really can't put those people in the category of purchasing a good Taurus product.

How could they stay profitable? How does Hi-Point stay profitable selling their guns for $200 or less? Think these companies might be cutting corners somewhere in the production line? Think people complain for no reason when 1911 companies start putting plastic components on their models, yet charge no less for them, stating its for "weight savings" and is "just as good" as the metal counterpart? Taurus is not the only company with complaints or poor products but they seem to be the most consistent in producing them.

Taurus is good at selling in volume for many reasons, but it has nothing to do with quality.

ETA: There is another thread about Taurus products going on right now here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=647595&page=2

Post #47 really nails why Taurus is what it is and why people either buy their products or avoid them.

MMCSRET
March 7, 2012, 03:58 PM
This thread has really turned out to be fun!! reminds me of a nonsense poem from childhood years, can't remember it all but: "Back to back they faced each other; drew their swords and shot each other"!

TarDevil
March 7, 2012, 05:42 PM
This thread has really turned out to be fun!! reminds me of a nonsense poem from childhood years, can't remember it all but: "Back to back they faced each other; drew their swords and shot each other"!

Indeed! I'm not necessarily a Taurus fan, but no company can survive much less profit if they build nothing but junk... or sold to no one who ever fires their guns.

(Here we go again, but can't be helped) I do have family and friends with Taurus revolvers - experienced gun owners/shooters - with no issues. Sister loves her model 85 and my CCW instructor spoke highly of his 617. I'll let you know about the 905 when the time comes!

Guillermo
March 7, 2012, 05:49 PM
Taurus and S&W is good at selling in volume for many reasons, but it has nothing to do with quality.

Fixed it for you

TarDevil
March 7, 2012, 05:55 PM
ETA: There is another thread about Taurus products going on right now here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=647595&page=2

Post #47 really nails why Taurus is what it is and why people either buy their products or avoid them.

I've already read that thread... and also noted post #48.

Nakanokalronin
March 7, 2012, 06:48 PM
Put a S&W and the copied Taurus version in front of someone who knows revolvers (not a snob) at the same price point and I would be shocked if someone picked the Taurus.

Nakanokalronin
March 7, 2012, 07:08 PM
Why don't all the people who have Taurus revolvers or know someone who has Taurus revolvers and claim they are built as well as any other brand post how many rounds through the guns mention with no problems, state the timing and fit of the cylinder and if they had to send the gun in for any warranty work. If it's under 1,000 rounds, it's not even starting to wear in yet.

I'll start with my GP100 bought used. First gun, over 4,000 rounds and still locks up as tight as the day I bought it. No issues.

Ruger Redhawk in 45LC bought used. I've shot about 3,500rds through it including some brutal CorBon 335gr. +P ammo. Still locks up like a vault.

Ruger LCR .38spl bought new. I just picked this one up so I've only shot about 450rds through it. I know at least 100 of those rounds where +P. Locks up nice and solid. No issues

S&W Model 10 bought used. 3,500 rounds since I bought it and who knows how many before that. Still locks up like a vault. No issues.

Current production 638 bought new. 1,500 rounds with zero issues. Not a perfect lock-up but it is perfectly even and much better then any NIB Taurus. No issues

Nagant revolver made in 1915 rearsenaled. Combloc revolver made by the millions. Still tighter lock-up then a NIB Taurus. Who knows how many rounds it had through it over its 97 year lifespan but I've put about 500rds through it since I've owned it. No issues.


_________________________________________________________________

I've owned a few other revolvers that I sold off to fund something else, but none of them, weather new or used, where as loose as any Taurus revolver that I have personally handled

If you guys like them, fine. I'm going off personal experience, not from stories I've heard or a gun someone I know has with no info on round count or use.

It's not like I'm the only one that knows about Taurus and they're shady quality. Sorry if you own one and I offended you, if your happy with your Taurus then more power to you. ;)

Doug S
March 7, 2012, 09:06 PM
Taurus revolvers I've had problems with...

85, regular misfires/problem with transfer bar
905, cylinder would lock up sporadically and disable the gun. It was not related to heat, or barrel cylinder gap. Taurus was unable to fix it
650, cylinder/barrel gap too tight, would bind when gun was hot
94, numerous misfires with all types of ammo

I also owned a PT111, the trigger mechanism broke on the 65th shot of the first range session.

I did have a second 650 and a 605 without any issues.

I no longer buy Taurus guns, and yes, you can call me a slow loaner (but not a hater or a basher. These are just the facts. Obviously I had nothing against Taurus prior to these problems.

I have had some cosmetic issues with S&W and Ruger, but no functional issues, and I've not had to return any of them.

MCgunner
March 8, 2012, 09:57 AM
Why don't all the people who have Taurus revolvers or know someone who has Taurus revolvers and claim they are built as well as any other brand post how many rounds through the guns mention with no problems, state the timing and fit of the cylinder and if they had to send the gun in for any warranty work. If it's under 1,000 rounds, it's not even starting to wear in yet.

Here's a hater that has no clue right here. :rolleyes:

My two used 66s, the 3" was the most worn, 80s model I'm guessing because it has a hammer block action rather than the later transfer bar. It obviously had MANY rounds through it when I got it cause the molded in "checkering" on the back of the Pachmayr Gripper was worn flat. Quite a bit of holster wear and the cylinder has a slight bit of end shake, though not excessive. I've personally fired probably 2K reloads in it since I got it, carry it a lot. It's 1.5" at 25 yards accurate from the bench and timing is perfect. It wasn't when I got it. Some numb nut installed the wrong screw in the front of the side plate, the one that impinges on the crane to hold it in place. I picked it up at the gun show, had 200 bucks on it. I checked the timing and found the crane had WAY excessive play in it, talked the guy to 180 tax included knowing I could send it to Taurus if need by and TEST that supposed bad customer service since I never got that opportunity with my other two. I got it home, pulled the side plate to check things out and found the problem. I figure the guy that put it back together wrong probably blamed the gun and is on the boards today bashing Taurus. I hope he reads this, but probably still blame the gun for having one screw that's longer than the others. :rolleyes: The only trouble I've had with that gun is that screw would get loose after I got it in the right hole, but a smidge of blue loctite and she has run fine ever since. I shoot mostly .38 +P loads (5.0 grains Unique/158SWC, mildly +P) for practice, but I love shooting a 165 gas checked SWC over 14.5 grains 2400 in the gun, handles it better than my old SP101 did and MUCH better than my Security Six did. I didn't care much for that Security Six, had noticeable muzzle flip and wasn't very accurate with .38s. The 66 is sweet, easy on the hand, and as accurate with .38s as .357s.

One thing I LOVE about the Taurus over my K frames is the frame is stronger, roomier in the area of the forcing cone, so it has a ROUND forcing cone. I had the forcing cone on a K frame split once, had to have it rebarreled. The flat bottom forcing cone caused by the smaller, less beefy frame, is a week spot on K frames. Straight up, I prefer the 66 to any K frame for this reason alone. The trigger in the 3" isn't as smooth as my Ks, but smooth enough, and the one on my 4" is as smooth as my 60s M10. The trigger on my 85SSUL is SWEET, smoothest out of the box DA trigger I've ever owned and I LOVE that gun and love shootiing it DA cause it's so easy to shoot DA.

Here's the 3" 66 with a kill it made one day when I was walking out to my feeder.

http://i50.tinypic.com/1zzj2g3.jpg

I found my nickeled 4" at another gun show used. I was looking for a 4" medium frame .357 as I'd traded my Security Six for a 6.5 Blackhawk that's a much better shooter and sold a M19 I'd had for 10 years for a profit and traded my Rossi 971 for a 4 5/8" .45 Colt Blackhawk that I had the hots for. I LOVE that Blackhawk, but sorta miss the little Rossi as it was a good shooter and light for a medium frame gun. Anyway, I picked up that 4" and it was like new, perfectly timed, NO end shake at all, slick as hell trigger, just beautiful. It had one little hard to see blemish in the nickel finish on the cylinder either side, obviously from a holster. I walked out with it for $197. It shoots 1" at 25 yards off the bench with wadcutters or 140 grain Speer JHP over 17 grains 2400. I have the elevation screw marked for either load. This one is my outdoor carry for hiking and such. I have only put maybe 1000 rounds through it, usually shoot the 3" when I go to the range, or my little M85.

Now, my M85 is a stainless ultralite which I bought new in 1996 along with a Kel Tec P11 when I got my carry permit. This one is 3" at 25 yards accurate from the bench and I've already mentioned the wonderful trigger. Timing and end shake are perfect after, I GUESS as I haven't kept a round count on the gun, probably 7K plus rounds mostly wadcutters and it kicks pretty good with +P and wadcutters are fun to shoot. I load a hand cast Lee 148 plain base wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye, sort of a standard load. I shoot this thing regularly as it's a carry and it's so fun to shoot with that wonderful DA trigger. The 8" 25 yard plates don't have a chance if I ate my cherrios that morning.

Until I actually have a problem, not likely since I check out all my purchases before putting my money down regardless of manufacturer, these three guns are my Taurus experience and I'm very happy with 'em and even if you wanted one of 'em, they ain't for sale.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=160635&stc=1&d=1331214984

BTW, the Nagant has to be the CRAPPIEST trigger on the planet.

Vlad357
March 8, 2012, 12:23 PM
I have a Stainless Taurus 66 .357 with a 6 inch barrel and it has worked well for about 2000 rounds, mostly 6.1 grains of Unique and Missouri Bullets 158 grain LSWCs. It is almost identical to my Smith 686 Stainless with a 6 inch barrel.

They look about the same, weight about the same, and shoot about the same. The major difference is that the Smith's trigger is notably smoother, although the Taurus's is getting better. I got both of them new, and the Taurus cost 1/2 what the Smith did.

And I don't really mind shooting the Taurus in the rain or snow, or leaving it in the barn now and then, which I am loathe to do with the Smith,or even more so with my Colt.

ewrski
March 8, 2012, 12:45 PM
I have a Model 66 made in 1989 that is just great. No problems, great both with .357 and .38 special. Fit and finish is real nice. When I bought it, the Smith next to it at the same price (Model 10) was very worn, had a terrible trigger pull and only shot .38s.

Quick question. How do you get your photos to show up in the threads and not as Thumbnails? Can't seem to figure it out.

Nakanokalronin
March 8, 2012, 02:07 PM
No hater. I've owned them, I've handled and shot plenty of others. I'm also not talking about Taurus/Rossi revolvers from 10+ years ago. The only people that get offended about negative comments are people who currently own Taurus guns.

MCgunner, It's my fault for not stating that guns from 10+ years ago are not exactly in the crop of the shady quality Taurus guns today. Let's face it, most manufactures made better quality firearms 10+ years ago. The only revolvers that still have a 100% consistent vault like lock up is Ruger, although S&W revolvers are still consistent in every notch. Current Taurus and Rossi revolvers are poorly made. If your 20yo Taurus runs great and locks up like a vault, great! Go down to your local shop and handle some current models and tell me if they match yours in quality. ETA: Seems the happiest Taurus customers have guns from 10-20 years ago which may be the reason why there is confusion that they're the same quality today. Do a standard revolver check-up on your older Taurus models and then go do the same to a current production gun, I'll bet there's a difference. If the current models are as loose as your older models with 7,000rds in them, well..........

BTW, you didn't mention how loose the newer 85 cylinder is in full lock-up. If you guys think I'm lying when I say that every Taurus revolver I've handled has been loose compared to other manufactures, just to bash the brand, I'm not. These guns where made in the past 6-7 years. I've handled so many because when I was looking at revolvers, I considered Taurus as a competitor. Over time, I noticed they where all the same loose tolerances with a few showing signs that the timing was off right out of the box. Today, with what I know and what I've read, not a single Taurus handgun or revolver is considered when looking at firearms. No doubt they sell because of price and no doubt you'll get happy reports, but weather those reports are after a few 100-1000rds is not always clear. I can take a known problem gun, shoot 10-100rds in it and say "Mine runs perfect, I carry it everyday!" but it dosn't mean a thing in the real world.

I'm not saying current Taurus revolvers can't shoot a bullet, or hit paper, but the quality is just not there.

MCgunner
March 8, 2012, 02:28 PM
Well, Smith has gone to crap. I don't know about new Taurus revolvers, but my SIL has a couple of near new autos, a PT145 and a PT738 and both function flawlessly. I love that PT145, kinda want one. 10+1 rounds, 24 ounces or something like that, and very compact. It's an accurate little toot, too. Neither one of his guns have 1K rounds, yet, probably 4-600 on the PT145 as he's had it longer. He's in Afghanistan right now carrying one of uncle Sam's M9s.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm

contender
March 8, 2012, 02:44 PM
What I'd like to know is if their revolvers have the same stigma

yes...deserved or not.

i have owned one problem-free Tauri product....purchased used.
old model 92 beretta type copy

i have owned three real stinkers......all purchased new
94
85 ultralite
m22

and i have seen problems on the range by others. Even know of one gun shop that will not stock taurus and make it clear to a customer that orders one there will be no warranty or exchanges by the shop........they have had that much trouble with the line in general.

if i was to purchase another Taurus today it would be the pt92. I will not take a chance on the rest of their product line despite the attractive costs and product innovation...not with the high costs of shipping a handgun involved for warranty work.

there is a large dedicated Taurus forum on the internet. interesting that as a guest you have 99% access to the board. When you join, you get access to a board hidden from public view...the complaints board...with horror stories concerning members who have had gun problems and the nightmares involving Taurus customer service.

Guillermo
March 8, 2012, 03:40 PM
I'm not saying current Taurus revolvers can't shoot a bullet, or hit paper, but the quality is just not there

The exact can be said for S&W.

Buying a new one is a crap shoot.

And the prices are high.

Were I buying a new revolver (I am not) I would look closely at Taurus and Ruger (depending on the usage).

Nakanokalronin
March 8, 2012, 03:42 PM
Well, Smith has gone to crap. I don't know about new Taurus revolvers, but my SIL has a couple of near new autos, a PT145 and a PT738 and both function flawlessly. I love that PT145, kinda want one. 10+1 rounds, 24 ounces or something like that, and very compact. It's an accurate little toot, too. Neither one of his guns have 1K rounds, yet, probably 4-600 on the PT145 as he's had it longer. He's in Afghanistan right now carrying one of uncle Sam's M9s.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm

Under 1,000rds through any firearm is pretty low. It dosn't need to take that many rounds to work but it should at least have that many rounds through it to prove itself reliable. That's only 10 range trips max for most people.

Maybe you missed my question but how does your 85 lock-up compare to your older Taurus revolvers?

ETA: Nagants do have a terrible DA trigger pull, but shoot 2 cylinders full back to back in DA and every other revolver's pull seems like it had a trigger job. ;)

Nakanokalronin
March 8, 2012, 03:53 PM
The exact can be said for S&W.

Buying a new one is a crap shoot.

And the prices are high.

Were I buying a new revolver (I am not) I would look closely at Taurus and Ruger (depending on the usage).

The prices are defiantly higher then Taurus prices. S&W revolvers are defiantly not at the same quality they were in years past. Comparing the two brands side by side today, S&W still wins in consistent quality and consistent lock up. I haven't handled any newer S&W revolvers with lead shavings on the cones from the factory test shots nor does every cylinder notch have a different amount of play. When I mean different, it goes from #1 very sloppy, #2 not as sloppy, #3 a little less sloppy, #4 getting better, #5 pretty decent, #6 acceptable....then right back to #1 being very sloppy.

Guillermo
March 8, 2012, 04:47 PM
Comparing the two brands side by side today, S&W still wins in consistent quality and consistent lock up

I am going to go to McBride's (I am told America's largest volume single store gun shop) and check out the lock up of S&W and Taurus revolvers.

Probably w be tomorrow.

I will report what I find.

MCgunner
March 8, 2012, 05:07 PM
Under 1,000rds through any firearm is pretty low. It dosn't need to take that many rounds to work but it should at least have that many rounds through it to prove itself reliable. That's only 10 range trips max for most people.

Maybe you missed my question but how does your 85 lock-up compare to your older Taurus revolvers?

I put 200 rounds through a carry autoloader trouble free and I'm good to go. I own 25 handguns and 20 long guns and shoot a lot of black powder cap and ball. I don't always put rounds through any one gun in a range trip. I rarely have time to stay out there all day. My SIL works when he's not fighting wars (national guard) and doesn't have a lot of time, either. He owns more than one gun, too, but he's got a ways to catch up with me. :D The one gun I almost ALWAYS shoot is my Rossi 511 .22 revolver, very accurate and rimfire doesn't need reloading. I have no idea how many have been fired through that revolver, but it'd best be measured in numbers of 550 round bulk packs, I reckon. :D I also have a scoped Ruger Mk2 that gets a lot of action.

As to lock up, that little M85 locks up just as tight as any revolver including my M10, my two 66s, and such. There are no gaps in the crane and no flex when locked up. No end shake and not much rotational play. Honestly, though, I don't worry about rotational play as it needs a little in a gun that isn't line bored.

Anyway, hey, if it shoots as good as it does, am I going to worry about a little end shake or something assuming it had any?

I'd say get off it. Roll the dice with Smith and Wesson if you're that well healed. If you don't want any Taurus revolvers, fine, leave 'em for me cause I've been thinkin' I might like a 405 sometime. :D Don't really need one, but just thinkin' about it. Since I sold my old 1917 Smith, I don't have a moon clipped revolver.

hariph creek
March 8, 2012, 05:47 PM
I've never owned one. But, two of my friends have. Both Trackers, one .41mag, one .44mag. Both liked them. I shot the .44, it was just fine. The guy with the .44 paid $200, used. Fantastic price to quality ratio.
I really like the Tracker concept (except for the porting!). 5-rounds of .41mag/.44mag./.45Colt in a 4" L or GP sized package. That to me, is a sweet trail gun.
If Ruger made a 4.2", 5-shot GP100 in .41mag, I'd be all over it.
I'd consider a Taurus, before a new S&W. Of course I'd want to inspect it first, like any gun.

My hierarchy for double-action wheel guns, I'd buy, is as follows:
1. Old S&W/Colt
2. Any Ruger (if extensive magnum use or heavy loads are desired, this gets put to #1)
3. Taurus (on a case by case basis)
4. Sharp stick
5. Dull stick
6. Rock
7. New (intergral lock) S&W

I have no experience with Dan Wesson, Charter, Rossi, etc...

Guillermo
March 8, 2012, 05:52 PM
My hierarchy for wheel guns, I'd buy, is as follows:
1. Old S&W/Colt
2. Any Ruger (if extensive magnum use or heavy loads are desired, this gets put to #1)
3. Taurus (on a case by case basis)
4. Sharp stick
5. Dull stick
6. Rock
7. New (intergral lock) S&W


LOL!!!

I like this hariph fellow!!!

hariph creek
March 8, 2012, 05:58 PM
Forgot to add, another friend just picked up a Titanium Tracker in .41mag. Paid like $300, I think? That should be ''fun'' to touch off. I think I can accept porting on that.

Nakanokalronin
March 8, 2012, 07:44 PM
I put 200 rounds through a carry autoloader trouble free and I'm good to go. I own 25 handguns and 20 long guns and shoot a lot of black powder cap and ball. I don't always put rounds through any one gun in a range trip. I rarely have time to stay out there all day. My SIL works when he's not fighting wars (national guard) and doesn't have a lot of time, either. He owns more than one gun, too, but he's got a ways to catch up with me. :D The one gun I almost ALWAYS shoot is my Rossi 511 .22 revolver, very accurate and rimfire doesn't need reloading. I have no idea how many have been fired through that revolver, but it'd best be measured in numbers of 550 round bulk packs, I reckon. :D I also have a scoped Ruger Mk2 that gets a lot of action.

As to lock up, that little M85 locks up just as tight as any revolver including my M10, my two 66s, and such. There are no gaps in the crane and no flex when locked up. No end shake and not much rotational play. Honestly, though, I don't worry about rotational play as it needs a little in a gun that isn't line bored.

Anyway, hey, if it shoots as good as it does, am I going to worry about a little end shake or something assuming it had any?

I'd say get off it. Roll the dice with Smith and Wesson if you're that well healed. If you don't want any Taurus revolvers, fine, leave 'em for me cause I've been thinkin' I might like a 405 sometime. :D Don't really need one, but just thinkin' about it. Since I sold my old 1917 Smith, I don't have a moon clipped revolver.

I'm not saying current S&W revolvers are the best. As a matter of fact, I've owned and still own more Ruger revolvers over anything else and they seem to be the last company to still make them like they used to.

I will "get off it" since I usually don't get on these type of threads anyway. It always ends in a cluster which is why I avoid them in the first place. This time I made the mistake to join in and tell about my observations and experience with a brand. Maybe I should of just said "Taurus sucks" without any explanation and let people give the ol' :rolleyes: at me.

Nakanokalronin
March 8, 2012, 07:47 PM
I am going to go to McBride's (I am told America's largest volume single store gun shop) and check out the lock up of S&W and Taurus revolvers.

Probably w be tomorrow.

I will report what I find.

I'll keep this thread saved just to see what your observations are.

skidder
March 8, 2012, 08:31 PM
I'll keep this thread saved just to see what your observations are.

Agreed...that should be a good read.

JaxJim
March 8, 2012, 08:38 PM
This is a long and impassioned thread with many views, opinions and probably a bit of Internet lore. I'm a S&W and Colt homer, I'll admit it up front (been in counseling but I just keep buying them). That being said, I own four Taurus handguns. The current Tauri I have in my collection are:

94ss4 - Trigger sucks, gun works flawless. I carry it in the "trunk" of my ATV with a box of .22s. I have owned it quite a while and it's perfect for what I have it for, a cheap don't care if it get's dinged up tool. Really not a lot of rounds through it because I really don't like to shoot it due to the crappy trigger.

M419 (Judge) - a toy, fun to play with but I don't feel it's a serious-use revolver. Bought used, I've put hundreds of 2 1/2" .410's through it shooting hand-tossed clays with it (good fun by the way) and it never has given me a bit of trouble.

M66 - The only Taurus I have had problems with, I broke it, they fixed it (for free) no questions and turned it around in less than 3 weeks. The gun shoots well, has a decent trigger (not smooth as an old S&W), and is more accurate at 25 yards than me.

PT-146 - Been flawless since I got it. No problems, feeds everything I've tried to stuff down it's throat. I carry it in the truck. It's no longer as "pretty" as it was when I bought it used, but it functions 100% so far.

I don't necessarily seek out Taurus firearms, but when good deals come along, I'll still buy them.

MCgunner
March 8, 2012, 10:03 PM
I'm not saying current S&W revolvers are the best. As a matter of fact, I've owned and still own more Ruger revolvers over anything else

Well, we can at least agree on Ruger. They're getting more variety with the LCR, but just don't have enough variety to compete with all the stuff Smith and Taurus put out. And, I'm not talkin' about the Gooberner and the Judge. :rolleyes: Of course, my fave Rugers are my Old Army and 2 Blackhawks. I'm a single action nut along with being just a plain nut.

The trackers are neat and I've thought a Titanium .41 would be way cool as a trail gun, perhaps the best way to go. Yeah, I'm not a big on porting, but that thing is light. I'd rather not have it ported in .357, but .41 might need it.

As I said before, i've been kind of infatuated with the idea of the 405, .40 S&W snub with moon clips, for carry. I really don't NEED a new revolver, though. I'm kind of off on a black powder kick, lately. Been increasing my Pietta collection.

skidder
March 8, 2012, 11:35 PM
The trackers are neat and I've thought a Titanium .41 would be way cool as a trail gun, perhaps the best way to go. Yeah, I'm not a big on porting, but that thing is light.
MCgunner-- My thoughts were the same as yours about the tracker, and I was as giddy as a school kid to shoot mine. My Tracker story is redundant in several threads so I'll be damned to tell it again. To make a long story short the big chain store I bought the gun from tried to talk me out of it, but I was stubborn and so excited I didn't listen. The manager of the gun department said the Tracker was the worst of all Taurus, and he warned all the employees to steer people away (his inventory was not his choice). They warned me, but I did not listen.
I really like your posts MCgunner, and I've learned from your wisdom, but I do not see eye to eye with you on Taurus revolvers ;). I guess experience can shape an opinion.

MCgunner
March 8, 2012, 11:39 PM
So be it. If I buy a revolver, Tracker or otherwise, it has to pass MY inspection first.

skidder
March 8, 2012, 11:42 PM
The revolver checkout is not perfect, my Tracker went beyond.

zxcvbob
March 8, 2012, 11:53 PM
So be it. If I buy a revolver, Tracker or otherwise, it has to pass MY inspection first.

That's a good start. But it doesn't help much if they skipped the heat-treating of critical parts -- there's nothing to look for until later when it starts to fail.

oldfool
March 9, 2012, 09:09 AM
I am going to go to McBride's (I am told America's largest volume single store gun shop) and check out the lock up of S&W and Taurus revolvers.

Probably w be tomorrow.

I will report what I find.
I will be tuning in, just to see what you think of McBride's selection there, G
I have faith in your 1st person evaluations, I do

but after that, you really ought to swing on by Collector's Firearms in Houston, just to get that nasty "new gun taste" out of your mouth, bud

yeah, I know it's a bit of a drive
but the way I remember it, ya'll Texans never did mind driving a couple hundred miles, for nothing more than just a cold beer (leastways not around Dallas/Ft Worth they didn't) :)

Taroman
March 11, 2012, 02:36 PM
The only Taurus I ever owned was a Model 441 .44 Special purchased new back in about 1992. Solid as a rock. Accurate, smooth. Never gave any problems whatsoever. Was it the odd "good" one? Can't say.

Last year, I stupidly sold it and purchased a new S&W Model 21-4 .44 Special.
The S&W arrived with a loose front sight blade, a divot out of the forcing cone, .020" B/C gap and 1/4 of the butt unfinished. S&W did quickly fix most of the issues. The gun never shot well. Was overjoyed to trade it straight across for a 4" Model 29-3.

Still regret letting that Taurus go, however.

S&W copied it with their Model 696, now a "cult" gun.

http://www.hverovhe.com/taurus.jpg

Guillermo
March 11, 2012, 08:16 PM
like a dork I posted this on the wrong thread

her you go

Just got back from McBride's

Looked at S&W and Taurus revolvers

They were 3 deep at the counter so I didn't take notes.

One Taurus was a 44 mag. It was used. The crane had a lot of movement. We discussed it and theorized that a numbskull flipped it closed a lot. Was not a tight gun.
Since it was abused I drew no conclusions.


Looked at a Taurus UL snubby, blue (didn't know they made them) Was not tight but I would not call it abnormally lose. Double action trigger was outstanding. Good, even gaps in the crane-frame fit.

Picked up a j frame and it was definitely tighter. I would say 40- 50% tighter. Fit was good. Trigger was mediocre at best. Was stainless so no comparison. (I saw no new blue Smiths in the case)

Of snubs, Taurus won the trigger pull, lost on tightness.

Looked at a Tracker .357. Finish was that dull, Taurus look. Trigger was ok. Fit was very good. Tighter than the J-frame-sized Taurus. Not as tight as the J frame.

Looked at a performance center .357 (627?)

Fit was pretty good except for a slightly large gap at the top of the crane. It looked to be machined that way, was tight against the frame farther from the surface. Trigger was fine, stainless was pretty enough. Was not as tight as the J frame, maybe a little better than the Tracker.

If not for the weird "gap" it would have won all categories. Was twice the price.

Was the Taurus snub particularly loose? Was the J Frame trigger particularly bad?

Don't know. Neither one impressed.

Tracker seemed fine. The PC gap was a little off putting.

I had to go because I was keeping an employee from paying customers.

Really can't draw any conclusions because the sample was so small.

Will go back another time when they are less busy and look at more.

trex1310
March 11, 2012, 11:02 PM
This is not a "he said" or "I heard" or anything like that. I bought a
Taurus M85 for my mother. The first trip to the range after the 3rd
shot it locked up. I sent it back. Six weeks later another range trip,
same result. I sent it back. The dealer was nice enough to exchange
it for another one. Another range trip and on first shot it locked up
solid. A piece was broken off the forcing cone. Back to Taurus. Six
weeks later I got it back. Traded it for a Ruger. End of true story.
No more Taurus for me.

fatcat4620
March 12, 2012, 01:02 AM
I have noticed this. Page one of these threds always paints taurus in a better light then the op thought. Then it degrades into a hate thread by page two or three. Are taurus lovers so on the ball our does it just take taurus haters extra time to find the thread?

kopcicle
March 12, 2012, 02:47 AM
Well then , maybe I'm a little late to the party .

So I got a SS 85 with the bobbed hammer back in the early 90's . It was meant for the girl friend from the outset . The first trip to the range was alongside an easy afternoon of lazy bullseye with the large frames in 44 , 45 and larger so the paper was all the way out to 25 yards . The little Taurus came new out of the box and was loaded with federal nyclad . 25 yards ...

I squeezed off the first round and couldn't find the hole in the target . I asked to borrow the scope next to me and was greeted with an uncharacteristic chuckle from a fellow range rat ."go ahead , something wrong with your eyes ? Don't trust your shot ?" I had X'ed out with the first shot . I put the little 38 in the hands of the girlfriend that day and never got it back . Over several years I put several hundred rounds through the 85 with surprising accuracy and zero failures .The girlfriend is years gone and so is the little 85 .
I miss the 85 ;-)

(come on , you knew it was coming )

~kop

you know I miss you too red

weregunner
March 12, 2012, 08:42 AM
It just takes the anit-crowd longer to find anything. :)

Own over 30 Tauri revolvers and 11 Tauri pistols.

All are serving well and some are older than 25 years.

Also own a lot of other brands,makes, and models of handguns and rifles that are sound.

theicemanmpls
March 12, 2012, 11:43 AM
Some folks collect junk - taurus

Some folks collect art - S&W

just saying

clem
March 12, 2012, 12:23 PM
I won't even talk about the last "NEW" Taurus that I bought. But is was the "LAST" Taurus that I'll ever buy.:fire::cuss:

MCgunner
March 12, 2012, 01:32 PM
Some folks collect junk - taurus

Some folks collect art - S&W

just saying

I don't COLLECT anything. All my guns are shooters and my Taurus revolvers are some of the best. The 4" 66 succeeds a Smith M19 and a Ruger Security Six. It just shoots better and I prefer the round forcing cone to the K frame, holds up better. I've had a Smith forcing cone split. Collect what you want and delude yourself how you want. If I see a Smith that I like for a reasonable price, I may consider it, but that doesn't happen often.

I only have 3 Tauri, all revolvers. I have 8 Rugers, 3 NAAs, one Smith, 2 Piettas, one ASM, one Radom, one Charter Arms, one Ramline, one Erma, one Grendel, two Rossis, one Phoenix Arms, little of this, a little of that, hard to remember 'em all off the top of my head. Only junky guns I have are .22s and I have 3 quality .22s to shoot, so if I "collect" anything, it's probably .22s as I have 11 of 'em if you count the percussion NAA super companion and the Black Widow .22 mag. Those are quality .22s so I guess I actually have 5. :D I also have this thing for cap and ball guns, but they're shooters, not really collectors.

If all you buy is Smiths, you're not a collector, you're a fanboy. Me, I have diverse models and so long as they work and they're ACCURATE (my main requirement), I keep 'em around. I don't really own any very expensive guns, why I like Taurus and Ruger, for the value. I guess my .45 Blackhawk has the most money in it, mostly because it wears a set of sanbar stag grips and some engraving I had done. I love that particular revolver, powerful and as accurate as my 4" Taurus 66, shoots 1" 25 yard groups with its light or heavy loads. If I own any shooting "art", it's that gun. You can't even get sanbar anymore and last I saw, the grips were going for 300 a pair 5 or 6 years ago. I liked the gun so much I even had my initials engraved on the bottom of the grip.

theicemanmpls
March 12, 2012, 06:55 PM
I shoot what I collect.

I have smiths, other quality American made firearms, and Italian, German, and Austrian brands. I shoot em all.

Enjoy the Tauri, Charter, and Rossi.

Fan boy, and deluded? Is that what enjoying well made firearms is?

I say, one man's junk, is another mans treasure.

charlie echo
March 12, 2012, 09:19 PM
Our Taurus steel revolvers, from 1990s, shoots often and well. :)

I only collect cash, deferred-cash (stocks, etc.), and maybe books.

Guns are tools.

weregunner
March 14, 2012, 09:05 AM
S*W art?
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/57161-taurus-vs-s-w.html
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/8307-taurus-vs-s-w.html

Just saying. :)

weregunner
March 14, 2012, 09:06 AM
Must be collecting "Dogs Playing Poker" art. :rolleyes:

weregunner
March 14, 2012, 09:21 AM
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-armed-news/60557-taurus-international-mfg-inc-factory-tour.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-complaints/1792-taurus-accomplishments.html
This goes with the link above.


2010



THE BEACON AWARDS
The Beacon Council
International Commerce Award
Taurus International MFG, Inc.


2008




7th Annual Irlene Mandrell
Gold Sponsor
Celebrity Shoot
Taurus International

Golden Bullseye HandGUN of the Year
American Rifleman is proud to name the Taurus Judge as its 2008 Golden Bullseye Handgun of the Year

Golden Bullseye Award, NRA
American Rifleman
Handgun of the Year
Taurus Judge


2007




Manufacturer of the Year
Finalist
Taurus International Mfg., Inc.
Presented by SFMA

Golden Bullseye Award, NRA
American Rifleman
Handgun of the Year
Taurus PT 24

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/4695-show-us-your-taurus-revolvers.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/15648-revolver-buyers-checklist.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/judge/52418-show-us-your-judge.html

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/rossi-revolvers/6275-lets-see-your-rossi-revolver-photos.html

You folks wanted to go there so I did.

tarosean
March 14, 2012, 09:56 AM
The only Taurus in my house came with my wife. 38sp Snub w/Bobed hammer, I guess its an 85 (?). Its decent enough looking with good finish and lockup. However, I havent gotten it to fire all 5 cylinders in years. It will Light Strike once or twice on every reload no matter the ammo nor is there a correlation with cylinders. Been meaning to send it back to them. Just always forget its in the back of the safe...

fatcat4620
March 14, 2012, 03:00 PM
So your wife has a taurus that light strikes and some body mucked with the hammer?

tarosean
March 14, 2012, 03:14 PM
So your wife has a taurus that light strikes and some body mucked with the hammer?

No its factory hammer less, I guess "enclosed" is the correct term.

fatcat4620
March 14, 2012, 04:33 PM
I would send it in for repair or you might try a heavier main spring.

kopcicle
March 15, 2012, 01:32 AM
M 85 "bobbed"LARGE Jpg (http://chompco.com/images/guns/7a.JPG)

Had one for years . 0 , Zero function failures . Cylinder to forcing cone distance was a little tight at first allowing only 20 rounds before needing a light cleaning . After several hundred rounds even this small issue went away . Seemed to like the Federal NON +P Nyclad , a lot . Less than 2 seconds , 5 rounds @ 7 yards , less than a 3" group . Okay , I've been doing this a while and I practice regularly . I'm not talking about me . The 100 Lb soaking wet girlfriend with consistent training over no more than two months and about 400 rounds could do this . No wonder I never got the pistol back ...

~kop

clem
March 15, 2012, 04:09 AM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/clemdoggie/cyl2.jpg

This is the cylinder of a NEW Taurus 941.

FotoTomas
March 15, 2012, 08:50 AM
Just adding to the noise here...

I am a S&W snob. That said I personally had a bad experience with a Taurus 30 plus years ago. It was to me a cheap knockoff of my beloved S&W. While I have not purchased or owned one since I do have friends that swear by them and not at them. Several LE friends use the M85 as off duty and backup guns. My brother in law has a .44 magnum model that I am keeping for him while he is out of the country. It seems to be a fine revolver and shoots well.

That being the case I would consider one today if I had a need. Fortunatly my limited S&W collection meets my needs.

JR47
March 15, 2012, 02:04 PM
Some folks collect art - S&W

Yes, and S&W is to art as is Andres Serrano.

Ever wonder why the S&W fan-boys always recommend "earlier versions"? Perhaps it's because, over the past 20 years, the usual QC versions have been weeded out? I can remember, back in the 1970's and 80's, the dire warnings about S&W and their "Model of the week" and the Terrible QC accompanying the products. Today's younger crowd of Internet Experts routinely recommend guns from this period. Truly, "one man's treasure is another man's trash" applies much more to S&W than the fan-boys and Internet Commandos think.

I use my guns to teach with, and have for decades. The last thing that I want is to hand someone a gun that isn't going to work. I use Taurus, Sig, HK, Ruger, and the occasional, well-vetted, S&W/ I have a number of them, but the last two I purchased new have had to quickly be returned for lock-work failures. That is, too me, an example of poor QC. Worse, I check ALL guns that I buy for obvious problems BEFORE I pay for them. I'm not silly enough to walk out of a store with poorly machined charge-holes in a gun, or an out of time revolver. I also make sure that sights are correctly aligned, and so on. I can tell you that S&W is as prone to stupid assembly mistakes as anyone, even Jimenez.

Nobody, even HK and Sig, is today capable of 100% QC. Unless, and until, a person takes the total number of guns imported by Taurus in a single year, and the number of guns sent for repair, can you come up with any factual information. Even then, they would need to compare it to several other gun-makers to even approach an idea of what is normal.

Until then, we have traveling bashers like clem, who identified a Taurus Model 94 as a Model 941. That particular photo had already made the rounds months ago, attached to a different tale of woe. The Model 94 has NINE charge holes, and is a .22 long rifle. The Model 941 he identified, is a .22 WMR, and has B]EIGHT[/B] charge-holes. As an owner, he should, at the least, know what he bought. I would also question the proficiency of someone who would fail to check the gun over prior to buying, as he most obviously didn't. It's like buying a new car with bad paint, and then blaming the manufacturer for the mistake.

It's people like this, who manufacture "evidence" to support their infantile claims, that are trying to build evidence. Fortunately, they are rarely competent enough to actually fool too many people. :)

weregunner
March 16, 2012, 06:11 AM
Ah,yes. The Days of Our Lies. Never was a good soap opera, but they keep trying to find something.:)

BBQLS1
March 16, 2012, 03:25 PM
I have three now and have had a few more. My family has some.

605 - My most carried gun. Got it used, put around 1000 rounds through it (mostly .38s), it works good, shoots good.
606 - Ported 6 shot .357 Mag, it was my dads first. We shot it a lot, but I never had a round count. I sold it because I didn't like the ports and I didn't see the use in a 6 shot snub..... I kinda wish I had it back now.
85UL - Wife's gun, it's only got about 500 rounds, but works fine.
66 - Just got this one, it needs a little cleaning and I haven't shot it yet. Seems to be fine.

All seem to pass the normal checks fine. I do know the 605 and 85 are a little looser than some S&Ws. My dad's Model 19 is definitely tighter on the lockup, but my Taurus small frame guns feel about the same as most J frames.

My mom has an 85 and a 650 that are just fine. Maybe 500 rounds (it doesn't get shot much, but I've shot both a bit.)

My brother has an 85 that is just fine. Maybe 500 rounds (it doesn't get shot much, but I've shot it a bit.)

I did have a PT92 that had problems extracting shells, but the gun was a much older no-decocker model. It had been shot a lot, but was clean when I bought it used. I bought a new extractor because the tip of the old one had some slight wear.... When I changed it out, I found that it had a whole bunch of gunk in the cavity. Cleaned it up, lubed it, went ahead with the new extractor and it worked fine thereafter. Sold it because, I just wasn't attached to it.

I really haven't had problems with them. They aren't as slick as some S&Ws, but there are quite a few S&Ws these days with QC and build issues. They aren't as robust as Ruger and a good bit of the time they aren't finished as well. Rugers are pretty consistent.

theicemanmpls
March 17, 2012, 01:09 AM
Andres Serrano? famous for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ

Again, IMHO, Smith and Wesson wheel guns, especially the older ones are ART.

If Tauri are so valuable, can someone explain to me, like I was a 2nd grader, why 30 yo S&W's fetch much more money then the same copy cat model made in Brazil?

Cokeman
March 17, 2012, 01:58 AM
Because people like you have opinions?

oldfool
March 17, 2012, 03:39 AM
"The Days of Our Lies,", "Internet Commandos" , and smilies go together about as well as 'da Judge and 45LC in Grizz country, and bad 'da jokes (so say some fools).

Feel the need to help educate a fellow revolver owner aka "USMC Retired, LEO Retired NRA Benefactor Member" ? Nobody knows T-94/941 better than you two guys, say it ain't so. Maybe not a USMC/LEO retired. Last time I looked, they don't issue small frame rimfires for combat duty and/or LEO service handguns. Tell 'em all about it. Count holes.
(prolly Photoshopped anyway, that 94 picture, infamous conspirator tactic that fools no one ??)

How many prospective new buyers know that specific make/model/vintage better than you two guys do ? How many people even on taurusarmed.net own and shoot all of 'em every week/month, as many Taurus 94/941 rimfire revolvers as either one of you guys ?? Qwiks draw ??

or don't do that -
and don't post up pictures of NIB 94/941 revolvers you personally looked at yourself.
Those which you would cherry pick for yourselves, and those you would not.
(Do feel free in the interests of objective non-biased anti-conspiracy to do same for every NIB S&W, Ruger, Rossi, Taurus, Charter, brand X small frame DA rimfire you and friends can lay your hands on; they ain't that hard to find, not even for guys like me and you who do not own our own LGS.)

People who know handguns like you guys do, and own ~41 Taurus handguns, ought not waste their time and money on digital cameras. People like me ain't interested enough to bother, because all us snobby elitists and Internet Commandos and idiots are too busy playing CoD anyway (in between planning the relentless advance of the VAST INTERNET CONSPIRACY)

Tell those newbies what a homeboy-smithing mainspring and/or trigger return spring change and/or 5000 rounds of dry fire will do for a cherry picked 94 or 941 bought NIB DA trigger... (and won't do).

Somebody had an unhappy experience with a NIB FA, S&W, Ruger, Kimber,Taurus, Browning, Hi-Point, HRR, Jimenez, or brand X handgun ??
Don't blame the factory, blame the struggling LGS owner trying to move enough volume to feed the family on too-thin-volume, too-thin-profit sales. Blame the buyer, it's their own foolish fault for buying on-line, and it's their fault for trying to save a buck from Bud's et.al. vs. somebody's personal favorite LGS.. QA/QC is their responsibility, not the manufacturer's... after all it's obviously real wrong for a newbie or an oldie to want to save a buck; do tell 'em they ought could buy wallyworld practice ammo, but NOT right to NOT buy economy priced brands, because saving a buck is inherently wrong absent no-free-ride expertise won the hard way. Do blame the competition for screwing up (and they do screw up), but Taurus mistakes are their competition's fault, not Taurus' fault, because it's the overpriced screw ups with the wrong number of cylinder holes to match the model that forces Taurus to ignore QA/QC, and send revolver cylinders out their door that look like THAT. The way-too-over-priced competition is just killing their market demographic, that's what it is, dadgummit !

Forbid new gun buyers, who have never owned a revolver, or maybe even ever shot one, to ever buy one because there oughta' be a law against ever buying a revolver (or any handgun), unless they have passed your level revolver checkout test criteria, without ever held one in hand before, nor acquired your hard won hands-on expertise by merit of owning and shooting at least 3000 rounds of ammo through at least 40 handguns each, preferably dominated by some one preference brand.
(if nothing else, you might win some bonus points from the anti-gun of-any-brand crowd)

Hate S&W worse than Satan, do it; S&W owners are all conspirator elitists, you know it. Spread the gospel, it's your duty. They always were junk anyway, just ask Chuck H.
Want to sell your own old/new S&Ws because you despise people who like em', do it.
Put 'em up there, name your price; some newbie elitist fool on gunbroker might bite.
Newbies always catch the short end of the dirty stick; that's how they learn to be oldies, same as you did.

Just how many newbies do you really think surf THR or taurusarmed.net, et. al. anyway ? They mostly have never even heard of THR or TFL or tarusarmed.net or rimfirecentral.. AR.com.. mebbe.. most of 'em don't even know that 38 S&W is a cartridge, not a special, not a bullet, nor a gun)

But if all else fails, you could still post pictures up of NIB 94 or 941s, cylinder bore shots, 8 or 9 holes, you pick 'em, brag on 'em. Picture worth 1000 words and 100,000 of mine or yours.

Me, I am impressed by that picture of that older vintage T-96 rimfire, and I don't even need pictures of the cylinder bore to be impressed. Got my own reasons for that.

Have seen cylinder bores in T-94s and T-941s. Not impressed. Don't even care if homeboy smithing can turn a crappy DA trigger into a barely tolerable one. SA trigger is an optional mode on a DA/SA revolver, ought not be a "requirement". "Mostly goes bang" can be had cheaper than Taurus-today, always could.

You care if clem knows the model number, I do not.

Just in case you wondered, no, I don't own a Taurus 94 or 941, on purpose, and I do not care what the bargain price is, but some folks do and ought care, and they just might ought pay attention to clem's picture
consider it a kindness.. because
I am leaving all those 94/941s for JR47, he might could make 'em run better than most
Me and you, weregunner, we just ain't destined to ever be real close friends, I reckon

Buy another 40 for you, somebody's gotta' do it
Sell 40 others NIB to others if you can, god knows we need competition in new revolvers, any kind we can get (but don't wait on me to stand in line)
me standing pat on the three Taurus handguns I own and admire
(and even McGunner, loyal to Taurus for his own good reasons, seems like he ain't jumped on NIB lately, but he knows how to check 'em out when he is ready; unlikely to have cylinder bores that look like that, five holes, or six, or eight, or nine, and they real likely to time right too)

Taurus makes some good-today-guns, always did
as do they all
and none are exempt from caveat emptor
those who have 3 or 4 success stories are not liars
those who have 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 complaints are not liars
those who have 40 straight unqualified one-brand NIB success stories ought spend less time touting gun brands and spend more money on lotto tickets

and for those entertained by conspiracy theories, there is always the 'black helicopter' option

it's a VAST INTERNET CONSPIRACY, dadgummit !
Qwiks draw cannot fight it all by himself

PS
shooting is good, and even more fun if done not with your life on the line
if you can't hit the target, enjoy the noise, but don't shoot yourself in the foot
or anyone else

clem
March 17, 2012, 04:15 AM
Yes, and S&W is to art as is Andres Serrano.

Ever wonder why the S&W fan-boys always recommend "earlier versions"? Perhaps it's because, over the past 20 years, the usual QC versions have been weeded out? I can remember, back in the 1970's and 80's, the dire warnings about S&W and their "Model of the week" and the Terrible QC accompanying the products. Today's younger crowd of Internet Experts routinely recommend guns from this period. Truly, "one man's treasure is another man's trash" applies much more to S&W than the fan-boys and Internet Commandos think.

I use my guns to teach with, and have for decades. The last thing that I want is to hand someone a gun that isn't going to work. I use Taurus, Sig, HK, Ruger, and the occasional, well-vetted, S&W/ I have a number of them, but the last two I purchased new have had to quickly be returned for lock-work failures. That is, too me, an example of poor QC. Worse, I check ALL guns that I buy for obvious problems BEFORE I pay for them. I'm not silly enough to walk out of a store with poorly machined charge-holes in a gun, or an out of time revolver. I also make sure that sights are correctly aligned, and so on. I can tell you that S&W is as prone to stupid assembly mistakes as anyone, even Jimenez.

Nobody, even HK and Sig, is today capable of 100% QC. Unless, and until, a person takes the total number of guns imported by Taurus in a single year, and the number of guns sent for repair, can you come up with any factual information. Even then, they would need to compare it to several other gun-makers to even approach an idea of what is normal.

Until then, we have traveling bashers like clem, who identified a Taurus Model 94 as a Model 941. That particular photo had already made the rounds months ago, attached to a different tale of woe. The Model 94 has NINE charge holes, and is a .22 long rifle. The Model 941 he identified, is a .22 WMR, and has B]EIGHT[/B] charge-holes. As an owner, he should, at the least, know what he bought. I would also question the proficiency of someone who would fail to check the gun over prior to buying, as he most obviously didn't. It's like buying a new car with bad paint, and then blaming the manufacturer for the mistake.

It's people like this, who manufacture "evidence" to support their infantile claims, that are trying to build evidence. Fortunately, they are rarely competent enough to actually fool too many people. :)
Your right! I have the wrong picture! It is a .22lr, I'll try and get up a picture of the right revolver.
Sorry folks!

76shuvlinoff
March 17, 2012, 10:51 AM
...and sometimes you come across a neglected crusty orphan with an unknown round count that needs a little homegrown TLC. The next thing you know you've made over 300 .38 holes in paper and can't pry the damn thing out of your wife's hand. It's a Taurus so you convince her she needs a new Ruger.... and the Ruger trigger is so heavy it sits waiting on a spring kit.......Well, maybe I got me a new Ruger ;)

82

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr123/76shuvlinoff/Photo-0002.jpg

tomrkba
March 17, 2012, 11:32 AM
I think Ruger is the current top revolver brand. Colt would be my first choice, but they're no longer in the double action revolver business. I only wish Ruger would make a mid sized revolver with three inch barrel, night sights, cut for moon clips and had chamfered chambers. I also think they should incorporate the features of the Super Redhawk (which combines the best features of the GP100 and Redhawk) into their SP101 and GP100 lines. "SP201" and "GP200" lines with a variety of barrels and calibers would be great.

S&W would be near Colt, but the poorly designed lock and current quality issues keep me from buying their new guns. The lock will self-activate in light guns firing cartridges with heavy bullets. Michael Bane talks about this on his podcast; it is repeatable. I went to purchase a 640. I really like the new one with fluted barrel and night sights. Problem was the barrel was very obviously crooked. The price was very high too at $749.

Grant Cunningham outlines the problems with Taurus revolvers. I'd get one, especially a snub nosed gun in 22 Long Rifle, if the internals were better.

Guillermo
March 17, 2012, 11:34 AM
Did Old Fool dip into the Maker's and have a little to get off his chest?

Me thinks he might be tired of the people that claim to know "oh so much"

Guillermo
March 17, 2012, 11:40 AM
I can tell you that S&W is as prone to stupid assembly mistakes as anyone, even Jimenez.

S&W would be near Colt, but the poorly designed lock and current quality issues keep me from buying their new guns. The lock will self-activate...

I say things like this and I am constantly called a "hater" so you guys watch out. :D

oldfool
March 17, 2012, 11:47 AM
yeah G, "liar, liar, pants on fire" and firewater just don't mix well at all
I oughta' know that by now, too
good thing me and wg never were really close friends, I guess
but thank gawd, at least we don't do politics here


hey, if I kick the dawg, the dawg bites back, you know :eek:
and I be too old and slow to outrun 'em

Guillermo
March 17, 2012, 12:10 PM
I be too old and slow to outrun 'em

only a fool would chase you.

I suspect you always have one of those old S&Ws around and can shoot the beak off of a hummingbird at 300 yards with the gun clenched in your butt cheeks while doing a one handed handstand on the hood of a monster truck that is crushing school buses.

Mike J
March 17, 2012, 02:15 PM
I suspect you always have one of those old S&Ws around and can shoot the beak off of a hummingbird at 300 yards with the gun clenched in your butt cheeks while doing a one handed handstand on the hood of a monster truck that is crushing school buses.

I would pay to see that shot take place.

As far as Taurus. I don't have much experience with them but my wife has an old model 85 that she already had when we got married in '04. I have shot it a few times. Now I am not really a revolver guy (my only centerfire revolver is an old Dan Wesson .357 I picked up used back in the mid 90's) but it seems just fine to me. After joining this forum I did go over it following the instructions in the revolver check out thread & it is tight. Of course since she & I have been married 8 years & she was given it by her Ex-Father-in Law (she had to been divorced 4 years when we met) it has to be at least 12 years old. I have no idea how old it actually is or if the newer ones are made as well.

Edited to add: This is going to show how little I know about these but apparently this revolver is pre-1996 as it does not have a lock. I learned they added the lock then from a link in the model 85 thread.

Guillermo
March 17, 2012, 03:02 PM
I would pay to see that shot

If you are impressed with Old Fool's shooting you should see Old Fuff!!!

He can shoot a dingleberry off a hummingbird butt in flight at 150 yards with a 500 mag derringer made of styrofoam clenched in his butt cheeks while doing ty-bo on the hood of a moving car that is careening through traffic driven by a spider monkey on crack while he is adding adding some brilliant post to The High Road from his smart phone.

That stuff will humble we mere mortals

clem
March 17, 2012, 03:45 PM
HEY JR47, it's Clem "the traveling basher", (someday we'll have to meet for coffee).

Anyway, here is the 941 cylinder I ment to post. Look at the 1:00 o'clock chamber. I had worked on it but stopped because I didn't want it too large to rupture brass.
The other chambers are a lot better then when I first bought the revolver.

I have 3 other Taurus weapons, an older 66 revolver in .357 mag (works great!, a Judge (works great!) and a Auto loader 99 (works excellent!).

So, I just don't know what happened to Taurus in the last couple of years in the area of quality control and customer service.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/clemdoggie/941CLY.jpg

spanishjames
April 18, 2012, 07:29 PM
Clem: This is the cylinder of a NEW Taurus 941.
Is that your gun?
Looks just like the second picture in this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450251&highlight=spanishjames+taurus

MCgunner
April 18, 2012, 09:17 PM
Did Old Fool dip into the Maker's and have a little to get off his chest?

I'm not real sure what he said or who he was dissin', but it made me chuckle. :D

skidder
April 18, 2012, 09:46 PM
He can shoot a dingleberry off a hummingbird butt in flight at 150 yards with a 500 mag derringer made of styrofoam clenched in his butt cheeks while doing ty-bo on the hood of a moving car that is careening through traffic driven by a spider monkey on crack while he is adding adding some brilliant post to The High Road from his smart phone.
Now that's some pretty rich programming, and a visual like that would take therapy to erase. I'll pass on the tickets to that wild west show. :o

MCgunner
April 18, 2012, 10:06 PM
I will be tuning in, just to see what you think of McBride's selection there, G
I have faith in your 1st person evaluations, I do

but after that, you really ought to swing on by Collector's Firearms in Houston, just to get that nasty "new gun taste" out of your mouth, bud

I bought my TC Contender at Collector's Firearms at a decent price. They've a friggin' HUGE inventory, like going to a gun show.

clem
April 18, 2012, 10:17 PM
Is that your gun?
Looks just like the second picture in this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450251&highlight=spanishjames+taurus
Yes, that is from my NEW gun. Goes to show you that mine is not the only one out there or that got by Taurus' quality control.

cwl1862
April 18, 2012, 10:43 PM
At one time I owned a Taurus PT58HC, 19 shot 380ACP, Big gun for a 380 but man was it fun to shoot! Regret trading it away last year but then I always do........ Never owned a Taurus revolver, looked at the model 85 in 327 Federal, but upted for the Ruger SP101 instead, and then there was the NIB Taurus 22 mag at the gun show, picked it up to look at and the rear sight just fell off! Not a real confidense builder there! Now reciently I've been looking at a used Model 66 4" 357 at a local GS, nice gun in good condition, nice trigger too, they want 325.00 for it but I think it's a little high as I can purchase a new one on GB for 375.00. All in all Taurus makes some good guns, do they turn out the occasional lemon....yep, but then they all do.

Landric
April 19, 2012, 09:32 PM
Before I get labeled as a mindless Taurus basher, let me get this out front. I have owned six Taurus revolvers, and only three of them were trash!

Here they are:

1) Early-90's 669 .357 -Very inaccurate and inconsistent (it wasn't me, multiple shooters couldn't hit anything with it). A trip back to Taurus failed to fix the problem. I can't remember what became of it, I bought it new, so it was quite a while ago.

2) Mid-90's 85CH .38 Special. Worked just fine, not as nice as a J-frame S&W of the era, but still a solid gun. Sold it to a friend. Lost touch with friend, so no idea how it held up over the long haul.

3) Mid-90's (no lock) 441 (or 431 not sure) .44 Special. Again, solid, reliable, accurate. Kept it for a while without problems. Eventually sold it on Gunbroker for more than I paid for it.

4) ~2006 production 85UL .38 Special. Bought new and given to a friend to carry when he opened his business and only had a Beretta 92G and some long guns (he is a small guy, and try as he might, the Beretta didn't work for CCW for him). He still has and carries the 85UL daily. I've shot it and witnessed him shoot it many times with zero issues.

5) Recent (2010?) Production 327 .327 Federal. Awful, poor timing, lockup, and cylinder would simply refuse to close from time to time for no obvious reason. It was fine when I tested it at the shop, problems developed after I shot about 50 rounds of .32 H&R Magnum through it (no .327 Federal ammunition to be had at the time). I returned it to the shop, he returned it to his distributor, and got me another 327.

6) 327 #2. Exact same problems, though slightly less pronounced. Returned it also, and it went back to the distributor. I used my refunded money to buy a .32 H&R Magnum Ruger Single Six. That was one of the better gun choices I made. I love that revolver.

So, my experience with Taurus has been mixed. However, a 50% success rate isn't good enough for them to keep my business, especially when there are other guns out there with lower (in my experience) failure rates.

I've owned at least 50 S&W products (Revolvers and Autos) from old to recent production and never had a single problem with any of them. Same success rate goes for HK, Glock, Beretta, and North American Arms. I've had one dud Ruger out of quite a few, and Ruger is my current favorite revolver manufacturer. I have experienced an internal lock failure with a S&W revolver (a new production 1917 moon clip .45 ACP) that cause the gun to fail to fire. That was with a demo gun at the Carolina Cup several years back, and it simply solidified my hatred of the internal lock. I won't buy an S&W that has one.

Other guns I have had that were complete junk:

-Springfield Champion Lightweight 1911 .45 ACP -Total Trash
-Para-Ordinance P13.45 -Slightly less trashy than the Springfield
-Kel-Tec P40 -Probably the single wost gun I have ever owned
-Ruger P90DC .45 ACP -Inaccurate and unreliable
-SIG P220, P225, P230 -All three broke trigger return springs in < 500 rounds

HiVel1
April 19, 2012, 10:09 PM
That is the

HiVel1
April 19, 2012, 10:15 PM
That is thenew??????

theicemanmpls
April 19, 2012, 10:31 PM
I am a mindless Taurus Basher.

50% of Taurus products landric owned were failures.

Taurus makes money selling a low end product to Noobs, and those who don't know any better. Those folks who want a pistol in the house, and never shoot it.

Question:How many police/sheriff, state, or federal agencies have contracts with Taurus?

Answer: Very few if any.

Question: How many folks who carry a weapon for a living choose Taurus.
Answer: unknown.

While sometimes one will find a Taurus product that performs and exceeds limitations, the number of failures overshadows those rare success stories.

I own a Taurus product, and have shot many OPT's (other peoples Tauri)

theicemanmpls
April 19, 2012, 10:32 PM
eom

MCgunner
April 20, 2012, 12:02 AM
Taurus makes money selling a low end product to Noobs, and those who don't know any better. Those folks who want a pistol in the house, and never shoot it.

So, I'm sure glad to know someone so wise is teaching me his wisdom. :rolleyes: Seems to know more about 3 of my guns than I do, even though he's never seen one of 'em let alone fired one. Also says I'm a "noob". I'm flattered that I don't show my age. :rolleyes: When I was in high school, Led Zepplin cut their first album. I've been shooting since age 6, handguns since high school.

theicemanmpls
April 20, 2012, 09:01 AM
So, I'm sure glad to know someone so wise is teaching me his wisdom. :rolleyes: Seems to know more about 3 of my guns than I do, even though he's never seen one of 'em let alone fired one. Also says I'm a "noob". I'm flattered that I don't show my age. :rolleyes: When I was in high school, Led Zepplin cut their first album. I've been shooting since age 6, handguns since high school.
Some folks sure do take the internet very serious.
I suggest that someone take this thread, and count the number of positive vs negative Taurus postings.
I worked in a Gun Store for a while, and despite my best efforts to sway the sale, I sold many Taurus products. I had to smile when some folks came back, and said their new pistol didn't work so well. My reply was, "told you so". Now I concede other manufactures products failed, but not at the rate of the infamous Tauri brand.
I have no idea why the best rock and roll band ever is being brought up. I saw two led zep concerts, one east coast, one west coast. That is all I remember of the concerts.
For your listening enjoyment. Two band members doing an old Hank Williams tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWw3dVNloVI

R.W.Dale
April 20, 2012, 09:43 AM
My biggest beef with Taurus is they make so many revolvers in a configuration I want!

For whatever reason if s&w sees fit to actually make a revolver in a caliber other than 38/357 for some odd reason the price suddenly doubles :confused:

Ruger wich is a company I adore suffers from much the same vanilla affliction with reguards to DA revolver configurations. Come on a 22lr LCR but no 9mm?

Anyways I've owned many Taurus revolvers and one 1911 that aside from a slightly low end feel have all been completely trouble free serviceable firearms. However it would be pure Pollyanna to ignore all the reports of serious quality and service faults associated with Taurus. So even though I will continue to buy taurui I do so only if I can inspect the firearm on the spot and have some assurance of CS from the retailer on new guns.

FYI I :thumbup: my 905

Texas Gun Person
April 20, 2012, 05:34 PM
I have a model 85 and it is clearly not as tight as my S&W 642. The trigger on the 642 is also noticeably smoother.

But the few Taurus guns I have owned have always gone bang when I pulled the trigger.

Walking Dead
April 20, 2012, 06:11 PM
Either everybody on every gun forum has bought a Taurus or there is an awful lot of he said she said going around. I mean really, how does everybody have a Taurus story?

oldfool
April 20, 2012, 09:00 PM
"there is an awful lot of he said she said going around."
maybe the single most oft posted opinion in cyberspace, that one
oft accompanied by weblinks to he said she said

I cannot say anything about ALL gun forums
But this is THR and it is the revolver sub-forum, not your random-man-on-the-street survey.. a lot more shooters than just owners
There will always be some flame games on any generic brand post, how it is, it's cyberspace
but most people who post here don't own brand X or Y or Z.. most have owned and shot brand X and Y and Z

Most every shooter I personally know has owned at least one brand T, at sometime or other.. Taurus has been in business (even if mostly in South America) for a very long time, well before they made their push into NA, especially so give or take the time of the dreaded Bangor-Punta era
(I own three myself, all pretty much of that "era"; three out of 40, one brand out of 17)

and they all (shooters) have an opinion about 'em, go figure
(and likely to tell you what it is, too, if/when you ask 'em to)

Doug S
April 20, 2012, 09:19 PM
Either everybody on every gun forum has bought a Taurus or there is an awful lot of he said she said going around. I mean really, how does everybody have a Taurus story?

I think a lot of people have tried Taurus, because of the lower price. That combined with reading some positive reviews like some of those in this thread influenced me to buy a Taurus handgun. The first two were pretty good, so I bought more. The rest were a crapshoot, and I had over a 50% failure rate with 7 Taurus guns. I no longer buy them.

As amazed as some of you guys seem to be that a bunch of people have actually tried Taurus and experienced problems, well I guess I'm equally amazed that some of you claim to have had such good experience with them. Maybe you just haven't bought enough Taurus guns to know better;). I'm also amazed that so many will accuse others of dishonesty when they share a negative Taurus story, but as far as that goes, I have no reason to question your integrity in the matter.

Regardless, Taurus doesn't suffer from a "stigma", it suffers from poor quality. If anyone doubts this, just go and buy a few Taurus guns, and most likely you'll find out for yourselves. If you are one of the minority who get lucky with your Taurus, good for you. Just sharing my opinion, like the rest of you.

Jaymo
April 20, 2012, 09:30 PM
Darn it, all my Tauri must be defective. They've all been reliable, accurate, and had good triggers.
A Smith j frame with a good trigger from the factory?
Next, you'll be telling us you have a pet unicorn. :)

Doug S
April 20, 2012, 09:40 PM
Jaymo,

As I said, I'm glad your experience with Taurus has been a good one, and I have not reason to doubt the truthfulness of your experience (just because it happens to be different from my own).

beag_nut
April 20, 2012, 09:44 PM
Well, there are many stories about bad Taurus this and bad Taurus that. I saw the youtube video of the Taurus which shot its barrel off. Haven't seen or heard of a video of another brand revolver which did the same thing.
My mantra is: learn from the mistakes of others, not your own mistakes. That's what keeps me from getting any Taurus, however attractive a particular model may be.

oldfool
April 20, 2012, 10:00 PM
"A Smith j frame with a good trigger from the factory?"

mebbe you just ain't yet shot a no-dash DA/SA S&W model 60 yet, friend
(ain't no better than McGunner's T-85, nope, but 'sorry' it ain't)
and neither is quite what an old vintage model K-19/66 or Taurus model 66 "K" is either
never did see a unicorn logo on none of 'em, though ;)


though friend G do say 'Pony' and unicorn pretty much one and the same thing :)

Jaymo
April 20, 2012, 10:01 PM
ISTR watching that video and the barrel blowing off was the fault of the shooter/owner, not the gun.
ISTR him abusing it.

My newest Taurus is a 2007 Judge that works perfectly, just like every other Taurus I've owned.
I've only sold 3 of my Tauri, and have regretted 2 of them.
I sold my model 65 .357 to pay for car repairs while in tech school. I regret that sale.
I sold my .431 .44 special to help pay for a HD gun for my then-fiancee. I highly regret that sale. The gun and girl are long gone.

I sold my blue 85CH to help pay for my stainless 85CH. I don't regret the sale, since the stainless gun doesn't rust when I carry it in the summer.

I haven't sold any more, even my first generation PT111 Millennium. I heard that the first gen was junk, after the second gen came out.
Mine has been great.

I don't choose any product based upon Goobtube videos. There's a lot of stupidity floating around there.

Walking Dead
April 20, 2012, 10:03 PM
All I can really comment on is my model 66. From what I understand it's one of their best and I love mine. I am not dilusional in thinking they don't have lemons in the mix but like anything else people who have had problems with them will be the first to speak up. As for my next revolver I'm looking at the S&W 329pd.

jungle
April 20, 2012, 10:05 PM
What does the pro gunsmith say?

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/no_taurus_work.html

jcwit
April 20, 2012, 10:07 PM
I own 2 Taurus's "or whatever", I also own a S & W, and an Astra. They are all well cared for, all more accurate than I am, and all reliable. All of them have had thousands of rounds thru them.

I must be one lucky son of a gun. No pun intended.

oldfool
April 20, 2012, 10:08 PM
"model 66. From what I understand it's one of their best and I love mine."

yup
dirty rotten shame it was what it was, and ain't no more
but same could be said of me too :D

Jaymo
April 20, 2012, 10:16 PM
So there's a gunsmith who won't work on them.
That settles it, they must be garbage.
I'll rush out and sell all mine for bargain basement prices and buy a brand new Smith with the lock. (I still haven't forgiven Taurus for coming up with that bit of nanny statism)

As far as fit, Mr Cunningham has never shot the Taurus model 44. I bought mine in 1994 and, at the time, they were all hand fitted.
They were also very affordable. My 44 has a much better action than my best friend's 629.

skidder
April 20, 2012, 10:50 PM
Well, there are many stories about bad Taurus this and bad Taurus that. I saw the youtube video of the Taurus which shot its barrel off. Haven't seen or heard of a video of another brand revolver which did the same thing.
My mantra is: learn from the mistakes of others, not your own mistakes. That's what keeps me from getting any Taurus, however attractive a particular model may be.
You are a wise man.

With my last Taurus, I cherry picked the good posts and left the bad. My excitement for this particular model overshadowed the advice from the infamous "bashers". Guess what? They were right. I am now in the bashing club and a presumed liar. Take heed we are a notorious bunch, out for blood, filled with lies and alibis, always searching for a new Taurus thread where we can spew our poisonous venom. We know someday all our made up crap will pay off, and we will receive a big reward for our ingenuity and diligence.

Beach Nut
April 20, 2012, 10:56 PM
I currently own four Taurus revolvers and they all shoot fine and I've never had any
major problems with them. My favorite is the Model 66 4", it is a smooth shooting
tackdriver. I also own a Raging Bull .44 Magnum 6" which is a very sturdy and dependable
revolver. The two .38 Special snubbies I own shoot well enough to use them for
concealed carry. I'll admit I'm hesitant about buying the Taurus semiautos except for the
PT 92 but I would buy another Taurus revolver anytime if I had a need for it.

Walking Dead
April 21, 2012, 12:06 PM
What does the pro gunsmith say?

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/no_taurus_work.html
I'm also guessing if you take your F150 to the local Porsche shop you may get the same treatment.

MCgunner
April 21, 2012, 12:14 PM
Well, there are many stories about bad Taurus this and bad Taurus that. I saw the youtube video of the Taurus which shot its barrel off. Haven't seen or heard of a video of another brand revolver which did the same thing.

I seem to remember one of a Ruger Redhawk, Ruger anyway, probably posted by a Smith and Wesson fanboy to prove Rugers suck.

thebaldguy
April 21, 2012, 12:21 PM
My first snubbie was an all steel Model 85. It was barely used at a great price. I gave it a good inspection and took it home. The fit and finish are actually pretty good, and it shoots well.

MCgunner
April 21, 2012, 12:37 PM
"model 66. From what I understand it's one of their best and I love mine."

yup
dirty rotten shame it was what was it was, and ain't no more
but same could be said of me too

They still make the 66. It's a 7 shooter, now. Mine are both 6 shooters.

One thing about Taurus really sucks...their web page. I can't read those blue links without highlighting them. They need to hire better ITs.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=278&category=Revolver&toggle=tr&breadcrumbseries=MF2

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/66SS4.jpg

weregunner
April 22, 2012, 01:58 AM
Now own over 40 Tauri.

Been picking off the PT92Cs and PT58S no one wants.

All of the guns are in great shape.

blarby
April 22, 2012, 04:26 AM
If I was a gunsmith, you know why I wouldn't work on them ?

Because my work would cost money, and if your Taurus is faulty- they fix it for free. Forever. The guns' forever, not your forever. I don't hear a lot about them rejecting claims of faulty workmanship.... Now, user error is a separate story.

Gunsmiths get paid to fix both.... They rarely get paid to fix an out of time 3 year old Taurus.... Or one with a bent/wiggly hammer, or a cylinder gap issue, or a bent extractor stem.... or any of the other host of common revolver issues that seem to occur just out of the warranty window most manufacturers provide. Taurus will do that for free. And thats just the revolvers....lets not get started on autoloaders.

If your dealer works with Davidsons Guarantee ( Such as the dealer where I just bought my new Taurus 44ss4 ) you don't even need to wait on their repair work.... you get a new one straight away.

I've never owned a Taurus before.

This'll be my first one.

Yes, there are some parts of the finish that could be done better. I'm not particularly proud of the MIM nipple on the cylinder face....but I never see that part, and if you are seeing that part, and focused on that when the taurus is in use, that's likely to be a horrible last memory.

On the shell extractor, some of the teeth have a little flash on them...its snagged a few wisps of the q-tips I was using during its first cleaning. Nothing a little emery paper didn't fix.

It came packed in cosmoline like a leaky squirt gun, but cleaned up good.

The adjustable sights are very easy to manipulate, and the cylinder locks up tighter'n....well, I can't say that here. On every trigger pull. I've tried to get it to wiggle.... it wont. I've picked up few revolvers that can make that claim. None of them were $528..... most of them were double that.

The single action pull is so smooth, its like breaking a glass toothpick, and the double action works great too...at about 6# of pull once I got all the crud out of the innards....cosmoline included.

If I can save the price of a whole separate firearm by cleaning the one I bought correctly, buffing up a few flash lines, setting the sights, and living with a dimple..... I'll do that all day. I spend more time touching up $10 toy soldier figures cast in centrifuges. I spent the other $520 ish dollars on components.

I'd also add that no one offers a 4" stainless, ported, 6-shot .44 mag with rubber cushion grips and adjustable sights. When I find one, I'll have something to compare it to. In price, and quality.

If something goes wrong with this one, I'll let everyone know. I plan on putting at least 2500 rounds through it this summer...probably by august. If its gonna break, it'll break this summer.

nelson133
April 22, 2012, 07:33 AM
I own 7 Taurus revolvers, all bought used. They are perfectly adequate handguns. Never had an issue with any of them. They are not as "nice" as my S&W or Ruger revolvers, but they are made to a different price point.
As far as gunsmith tuning, I prefer stock pistols. While tuned pistols can show improvement in feel and maybe a little improvement in performance, I have never seen one that I thought was worth the cost.

oldfool
April 22, 2012, 08:27 AM
"They still make the 66. It's a 7 shooter, now. Mine are both 6 shooters.'


Well aware of that, McGunner, but my strong personal preference is for the old model version T-66 six shooter. Obliged to say I most generally do favor somewhat 'older vintage' vs. those of 'current/recent' manufacture in most any brand, though not exclusively so. There are "new" models in most brands that do perk up my interest, though, notably Ruger and S&W.

But of the many Taurus guns I have myself handled and inspected in the last 10-15 years, the only ones that spark my interest are the" old-line" products like the 92/99 autoloaders or series 85 snubbies. I have yet to see anything of the 'new & improved' in their lineup that I myself thought equal to the work they were doing back in the 80s.
("Don't you wish everything was made like Rubbermaid ?"... including Rubbermaid, these days)

That is very clearly a highly subjective personal opinion, label it whatever way you will, but it is a honest opinion born of my own hands-on experience; it's not like my personal opinion is based only on internet innuendo or glossy sales catalogs.There are quite a few Taurus guns within my small circle of friends, family, and shooting buddies. That is why I am not the least little bit surprised why there are so many on a forum like THR with hands-on Taurus experience. I would be amazed if there were not.

But any time I see a 'old vintage' Taurus at LGS for sale, I most certainly am strongly inclined to give them a real close look. When found in a style/caliber of your own choice, I do believe they are amongst the best values to be had in used firearms, S&W and Ruger included. I paid $330 for that nice T-66 just a few years ago, and paid $330 for a nice S&W K-66 at same shop in same year, and was happy (then and now) to do both.

I can be tempted to pay $600, $700 (or maybe even more) for a new S&W or Ruger revolver.
I have never yet been tempted to pay $400 for any Taurus centerfire revolver, old or new. How it is, for me, my personal choices, my hard earned money.

PS
I confess to a little bit of honest skepticism when somebody says "I have owned 40 Chevies, and never had a bad experience with even one of them."
much less 40 in maybe just six years or so.. though I do envy their ammo budget, if they be talking guns
(and I like Chevies a lot, I do, always have)
Just never knew anybody personally who owned 40 of anything who never had an issue with even one of them, ever.
Milday's set of Wustof Classic kitchen cutlery might be the only exception to date in my life. She just might own 40 of 'em.
I myself never have owned 40 of any 'one thing', don't expect I ever will.

j1
April 22, 2012, 08:40 AM
I handled two Taurus's in a gun store. They were both so stiff that I did not want to cock them and handed both bact to the store owner to cock. I am not exaggerating, I thought that they might break. The gun shop owner dismissed it as"They are Taurus's what do you expect." Both were new. I went to another gun shop and handled used guns and the Taurus felt as good as any other. I have since bought a used Taurus in 44 magnum and it has been A OK so far. Is it my carry gun? No.

MrDig
April 22, 2012, 01:07 PM
I own a Model 94 blued 4 inch, it was jamming and I could not figure it out the tolerances were all within the specifications.
Turns out I was shooing garbage ammo out of it. The Brass was not expanding in the cylinders and forcing itself backwards to bind on the "Shroud" the "Backing Plate" sorry I can't think of the word right now, anyway the "problem" with my revolver is that it eats clean high velocity ammo.

I also own a 44 Tracker and have hiccough free shooting from it and other than the fact that I think it's a little light for the caliber like shooting it very much.

HiVel1
April 22, 2012, 01:30 PM
The NRA loves Taurus-they give away free memberships with each new gun bought. Also the ex-boss (just retired I think) at Taurus is an ex-Army
officer and is a West Point graduate. The Judge was produced under his watch. Taurus sells a heck of a lot more guns than people give them credit for in the USA. The combined Brazilian gunmakers out -import Glock and every other importer of weapons to the US.
I cannot understand how a West Point man would allow all these mediocre weapons into the USA. Price point indeed. (everyone has a price) People buy 'em and most of them work part of the time so there you go. My family has had several revolvers from Taurus that worked well and still shoot good after over 10 years of intermittent use. (38 snubs). Many MIM parts are made byu Taurus for other makers around the world.
Keep on keepin on Taurus!

MCgunner
April 22, 2012, 05:07 PM
Well aware of that, McGunner, but my strong personal preference is for the old model version T-66 six shooter. Obliged to say I most generally do favor somewhat 'older vintage' vs. those of 'current/recent' manufacture in most any brand, though not exclusively so. There are "new" models in most brands that do perk up my interest, though, notably Ruger and S&W.

I prefer used, too, no matter the brand, but especially since Taurus tends to depreciate a bit after purchase and one can score a GREAT revolver for a GREAT price. :D My 4" is the best shooting medium frame .357 I've ever owned and I got it for &197 at a gun show. It's pre-MIM, but post transfer bar which is a good thing as the trigger is better than my older hammer block gun. I bought both my 66s used, both pre MIM guns, the 3" I found for %180 and it's a straight shooter, too, and carries well IWB or OWB. Bought my 85UL new in 96 and it's a pre-MIM gun. It's a great shooter and I do carry it a lot. I carry my 3" 66 occasionally, but it's big and heavy for a pocket and I prefer pocket carry. I don't have to carry a 20,000 dollar firearm to feel well protected, just one I have confidence in and can shoot well.

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