Martial Law is happening now, removal of second amendment rights as well as others!


PDA






hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:05 AM
Folks this is messed up! I live in a small town hit by the tornadoes last week and this is a new 'law' enacted... It's scary as heck when a county commissioner can remove whatever parts of the constitution they wish.

Notice the part of having to be indoors after 6:30? I don't live in one of the curfew areas, but they are almost all extremely rural areas with most folks owning large tracts of land... I'd like to see someone tell me I can't be outside on my own property.

Now, I'm sure in practice it's all pretty harmless, but these laws are VERY clear and open the door to lots of abuses. I'm certainly voting next local election to remove this commissioner and will be at the next town hall meeting after things calm down.

If you enjoyed reading about "Martial Law is happening now, removal of second amendment rights as well as others!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:06 AM
the areas that are hit in this county are very isolated with very localized damage, we live in the largest county in the state... why they didn't just cordon off those areas for residents only is beyond me... seems like they just wanted to flex a little bit and see how far they could go.

hogshead
March 5, 2012, 11:07 AM
Is there supposed to be a link?

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:07 AM
sorry, meant to paste this in the first part.



Cherokee County, NC - Proclamation of a State of Emergency

Section 1. Pursuant to Chapter 166A of the General Statutes and Article 36A Chapter 14 of the General Statutes, I have determined that a State of Emergency exists within Cherokee County, NC.

Section 2. I, therefore, proclaim the existence of a State of Emergency within Cherokee County, NC.

Section 3. I hereby order all county law enforcement officers and employees and all other emergency management personnel subject to my control to cooperate in the enforcement and implementation of the provisions of the county emergency ordinances which are set forth below.

Section 4. Curfew. Unless a member of the County's law enforcement agency or the emergency management program, every person who is located within:
a) Peachtree Community incorporating Old U.S. 64 to the Cherokee-Clay County Line extending to new U.S. 64 to Hendrix Road and N.C. Hwy 141 from 64 Alt. to Rolling Hill
Road
b) Wehutty Road from Prince Road to Candy Mountain Road
c) Candy Mountain Road from Shoal Creek Road to Liberty Road
d) Texana from Joe Brown Highway to Joe Brown Highway

This does not include travel to and from medical or emergency facilities.

Members of these communities are to be inside a house dwelling from the hours of 6:30 pm to 7:00 am.

These areas are without power and may pose a dangerous environment to homeowners, travelers and community members.

Section 5. No Alcoholic Beverages. There shall be no sale, consumption, transportation, or possession of alcoholic beverages during the State of Emergency within Cherokee County, NC, except possession or consumption is allowed on a person's own premises.

Section 6. No firearms, ammunition, or explosives. During the State of Emergency, there shall be no sale or purchase of any type of firearm or ammunition, or any possession of such items along with any type of explosive off owner's own premises.

Section 7. Execution of Emergency Plan. All civilians and emergency management personnel are ordered to comply with the emergency reaction plan.

Section 8. This proclamation shall become effective immediately. Proclaimed this the 03 day of March 2012 at 12:47 (p.m.)

Signed (Lorraine M. Meltz) Chairman Board of Commissioners

fallout mike
March 5, 2012, 11:09 AM
Keep us updated on that.

JustinJ
March 5, 2012, 11:12 AM
NC has concealed carry, right? If so do they mean that one can't carry at this time?

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:13 AM
the weird part is it really isn't that bad... 20 homes lost in the whole county, and about the same number of businesses... It would seem a more appropriate response would be to block off the 4 small areas hit by the tornado for residents only and have patrols out there, rather than have some weird law like this...

This is an area where a rifle rack in the back window of a truck is more than just common, it's almost expected. So to say that you can't 'transport' a firearm is really odd...

Lee D
March 5, 2012, 11:13 AM
that is scary as hell. please keep us posted

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:14 AM
@ justin... it seems pretty clear there... it says that you can't transport a firearm anywhere off of your own premises... this is pretty scary that some lowly county commissioner can do this!

4v50 Gary
March 5, 2012, 11:15 AM
Most places have ordinances for declaring martial law during a state of emergency. It is not surprising that it was declared in the wake of a disaster of great magnitude. Now, the issue is how long before it is lifted and the talons of government retracted?

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:20 AM
I'm positive this will pass soon enough, and that the local deputies will all be very cool about any 'infractions' on this... but that's not the point to me, it's that if they so chose to, they could lock a person in jail for standing on their front porch... They could lock you up if they saw a bullet laying in the console of your truck too... I know I've got loose ammo in all of my vehicles, I own a farm and am always running around with a rifle or shotgun in the truck...

On top of everything else, the city limits of murphy are under curfew, so every business in town has to close at 6:30! Keep in mind the tornado wasn't really that bad and 90% of town is absolutely fine without so much as a branch blown off of a tree.

SharkHat
March 5, 2012, 11:21 AM
It's not the enactment of new law, and is not permanent.

It's a temporary application which is a fairly typical response in emergency situations. I'm not sure, but it may be one of the steps required in order for the local government to seek aid from the state or federal level. For example, I'm not sure if they have to declare a state of emergency in order to seek aid from the National Guard, but it's a possibility.

Don't automatically attach an anti-gun agenda.

JohnBT
March 5, 2012, 11:23 AM
Here's my first thought. They have to declare an emergency in order to have a chance with an application for federal relief money through FEMA or other agencies. After seeing what a nearby county went through after the recent earthquake and aftershocks, all I can say it that it must be a real paperwork headache to get the feds to respond in a timely manner.

John

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:24 AM
the damage consists of 1 self store it building, 2 grocery stores, one small strip mall, and a feed store.

other than that, the radio said 20 homes were severely damaged, heck the worst part of the county had power restored in about 12 hours. This is a very large county, takes about an hour to drive from one end to the other, so to do a county wide thing like this is what is really bugging me out.

Luckily for me I've got ammo and beer :D

JohnBT
March 5, 2012, 11:25 AM
Point of order question. Doesn't the military have to take control before it's martial law?

Martial = military

"Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities "

jimmyraythomason
March 5, 2012, 11:26 AM
I'm certainly voting next local election to remove this commissioner and will be at the next town hall meeting after things calm down.

That is exactly what you should do. Convince/encourage as many of your neighbors to join you as you can. Let your commisioners know that this wont be tolerated by the voters of your county. BE POLITE but firm! As a former city councilman myself,I can tell you,that is important if you want to be heard.

jimmyraythomason
March 5, 2012, 11:28 AM
They have to declare an emergency in order to have a chance with an application for federal relief money through FEMA or other agencies. JohnBT,isn't that the governor's responsiblity and not some county commisioner's?

M2 Carbine
March 5, 2012, 11:40 AM
This is the way your elected officials should act. They should be attempting to protect your rights, not violating them.


Texas Also Gets Emergency Powers Limits

Sometimes called the Katrina Law, this new statute, effective Sep. 1, 2007, prevents authorities from confiscating firearms or ammunition in the event of a natural disaster or human emergency. It is designed to prevent the type of dangerous abuse caused by corrupt politicians in Louisiana after the Katrina disaster.

Unable to control the chaos and criminals running around at large, they chose to disarm the civilian population at gunpoint instead, leaving innocent people helpless. None of the perpetrators of the illegal confiscations have been brought to justice, and most of the confiscated property has not been returned, despite repeated court orders, which the "authorities" simply ignore. Texas law now bans such actions, though no prison terms are specifically spelled out for officials who might decide to violate the law.

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 11:40 AM
all valid things here... as far as the 'point of order question' yes, but what would you call this?

While I agree that in order to receive the FEMA money they needed to enact a 'state of emergency' but the commissioner picked and chose these stipulations herself out of a bunch of different ones... kinda like a pick your topping pizza :D

It just seems weird to me that a county official can remove the constitution because a mediocre tornado hit. That's my biggest point is it really isn't that bad while I'm sure i'd feel differently if a tree were through my home, 20 homes damaged in the largest county in the state is not bad enough to enact 'martial law' by any stretch of the imagination.

The gun thing is pretty weird, but to not allow people to be outside of their homes on their own property is even weirder... Again, I'm sure the deputies aren't going to arrest you for sitting on your front porch, but THEY COULD and that's the scary thing.

Kevin Rohrer
March 5, 2012, 12:23 PM
I wonder how many other states give the County Commissioners or other minor officials the ability to declare curfews. Ohio does not, nor do they allow weapon confiscation.

In the interest of full disclosure, Ohio does have an emergency snow ban that can be instituted by each county Sheriff. If the snow and road conditions get so bad it is foolish/dangerous to drive, he can declare a Level-3 Snow Emergency and arrest people for being on the road. But we also know an elected official will never arrest any voters for driving.

mgkdrgn
March 5, 2012, 01:32 PM
NC has concealed carry, right? If so do they mean that one can't carry at this time?
Yep

jim243
March 5, 2012, 01:37 PM
If so do they mean that one can't carry at this time?

That is correct, but what would you be doing out OFF your property and out during the curfew?

It is a STATE of EMERGENCY not martial law. Under martial law, you lose ALL your rights. And martial law can only be declaried by the Govenror or President of the United States.
Jim

newbuckeye
March 5, 2012, 01:44 PM
One more reason to like our Governor. He refused federal money and told them we could handle it.

The Lone Haranguer
March 5, 2012, 01:46 PM
Section 6. No firearms, ammunition, or explosives. During the State of Emergency, there shall be no sale or purchase of any type of firearm or ammunition, or any possession of such items along with any type of explosive off owner's own premises.
I read this as being OK to keep them on one's own property, not confiscation. It is silent on whether carrying off-property is OK with a CCW.

chhodge69
March 5, 2012, 01:49 PM
Yes, State of Emergency means temporary suspension your concealed carry permit and many other privileges. The Governor did this to the eastern half of the State last time we had a hurricane.

I AM surprised to see a County Commissioner claiming this power, but there's nothing else surprising about what you posted. If you're going to challenge him, try digging into the legal aspect and see if he over-reached his authority.

blarby
March 5, 2012, 02:09 PM
This is actually pretty up-and-up for a state of emergency.

If you live in one of the zones, they are doing everything in their power to prevent the horde from showing up in your community each nightfall.

You aren't giving up your rights to defend your property, you also aren't giving up the rights to use or possess your guns in this effort....you ARE prevented from taking them off your property or transferring them to another party until the state of emergency had been lifted. One of the main reasons for this, is that it prevents " Armed posses " if you will.

You dont want armed posses.... As fun as that sounds.

In addition, were I standing on my destroyed property, and you and a friend came runnin over with your guns....at night..... I "may" view that as hostile, and I'm probably not in my best frame of mind to begin with.... Again, this state of emergency prevents further tragedy.

If they had accepted the federal disaster relief, THEN you would/may have had a problem with your guns- but thats a separate issue.

Good for ya'll for lettin the state sort it out, not the fed.

As has already been noted, this is NOT martial law.

As has sort of been noted, they are not removing your second amendment rights. Theres nothing in the 2nd about transferring.

Just out of curiosity....instead of waxing dramatic about some perceived wrongs with yer keyboard....if you are really that concerned about yer fellow man....why not set down the mouse and go help ? They need it.... They will take it...

MtnCreek
March 5, 2012, 02:19 PM
Blarby,

Sorry man, I have to disagree with you on this one. IMHO, the State of NC has passed a law that does prevent persons from exercising their 2A rights during a declared emergency. While guns are not being confiscated, law abiding citizens are prevented from lawfully possessing their firearms off their property. As we know from other firearms laws, only the law abiding comply. The same law also prevents someone from lawfully possessing a firearm in the general area of a riot; I would want a firearm handy in that situation as well. Think on it a little more and I think you may change your mind.

MtnCreek

hso
March 5, 2012, 02:27 PM
NC law needs to be changed as other states (like TN) did after Katrina.

Shadow 7D
March 5, 2012, 02:43 PM
my understanding is that NC was one of the FIRST states to change the law, I'm kinda wondering the legality of number 6

it may squeak past since its just a prohibition of possessing explosives (take it to mean ammo) with a gun off you property??

SigMic
March 5, 2012, 03:07 PM
That is correct, but what would you be doing out OFF your property and out during the curfew?
Perhaps heading over to the neighbor down the road to exchange water for some fruits he has.
Perhaps heading over to see your neighbor friend to celebrate his birthday.
Perhaps bringing food over to the church that might be a makeshift shelter for some of the people that lost their homes.

Do you really not imagine a scenario where somebody would have something they would need or want to do after 6:30pm?

Just because their is a disaster in an area, doesn't mean people don't have lives to live.

Government actions to suppress liberties should be questioned and resisted. Blindly accepting them because somebody may means well in enacting them is not a good thing for those who believe in liberty.

blarby
March 5, 2012, 03:18 PM
Mtn : I'm going to have to go with the 2nd as written, not "implied" or extrapolated on this one.

There are certainly municipalities whose emergency plans run seriously afoul of the 2nd A. This doesn't appear to be one of them.... Although I do understand that in defending it, "we can brook no quarter, even in reason"..... In an advancement of some logic, not simply opinion, I can see their reasoning for these restrictions.

It would seem in this case that they actually went out of their way to incorporate the 2nd A, while doing everything within their power to protect the population from themselves during such an event.

" Their power" "protect from themselves" "restrictions" I know.... I know.... But in instances like these, the likelihood of a "friendly fire" incident under duress increase substantially. Whether neighbor vs neighbor, or National Guard patrol at night vs three armed men in the street- tensions of this nature provide for quick triggers.

I can envision the scenarios....and there are many.

A healthy dose of reality can help here. This is a natural disaster.... This isn't the precursor to armed insurrection nor a hostile military takeover by the county clerk preceded by a door-to-door collection of arms and munitions.

The restrictions as written aren't depriving you of your ability to keep or bear arms.....they are restricting you from running amok with them under the cover of darkness in a disaster zone.... I can't imagine why someone might think thats appropriate.

With that said, if they show up at your door vis-a-vis katrina....thats an entirely different ballgame, but not even in the same league as the restrictions laid out here. In that scenario ( katrina ) YES, I believe there's willful and unlawful stripping of constitutional rights.

THAT situation could indeed leave an unarmed and distraught populace seriously deprived of their right to repel and resist the real possibility of tyranny, one that such a population entirely dependent on government subsidy and functionality could be subjected to.

thefamcnaj
March 5, 2012, 03:25 PM
NC has concealed carry, right? If so do they mean that one can't carry at this time?
Yes thats what it means. If a state of emergency is declared in an area of NC, then people of that area can not leave their property with a gun. Reguardless if they have a cwp.

Orkan
March 5, 2012, 03:26 PM
Any person, law enforcement or otherwise, that tries to disarm me when I've not violated another persons rights will be deemed hostile. If he approaches onto my property, he will be deemed a threat. If he persists, a gunfight will ensue, which given the amount of firepower my family can bring to the table... he'll likely be declared worm food after that. Some of us might be feeding the worms right next to him... but that is a price we're all willing to pay to be free.

Disasters such as those during katrina and now are when people need their firearms the most, to protect their family and property. Any government official that would come and take them is an enemy of freedom and should be treated as such.

blarby
March 5, 2012, 03:30 PM
I agree Orkan.

Thankfully in this case, they aren't coming to take them.

Conversely, if someone shows up on your property, armed, not possessing a badge or a bulldozer, given these restrictions in place here, I'd say you'd have a pretty good leg to stand on for "pre-emptive" defense.

SigMic
March 5, 2012, 03:43 PM
Any person, law enforcement or otherwise, that tries to disarm me when I've not violated another persons rights will be deemed hostile. If he approaches onto my property, he will be deemed a threat. If he persists, a gunfight will ensue, which given the amount of firepower my family can bring to the table... he'll likely be declared worm food after that. Some of us might be feeding the worms right next to him... but that is a price we're all willing to pay to be free.

Disasters such as those during katrina and now are when people need their firearms the most, to protect their family and property. Any government official that would come and take them is an enemy of freedom and should be treated as such.
I won't agree with that out loud. But I can appreciate your thinking.

signalzero
March 5, 2012, 03:43 PM
It's purely a formality. Stop freaking out.

Orkan
March 5, 2012, 03:47 PM
It's purely a formality. Stop freaking out.
Perhaps. Yet I'm sure the jews were told the same thing about their registration.

Once its on paper as law... it can be used. Just because the current administration isn't using it, doesn't mean they can't or won't.

Notice that no non-criminal is targeted by the government. They word it carefully to ensure you are breaking "some" law... and then they can do whatever they want to the "criminal."

When it comes to assaults on our freedom, and given how many of those assaults have taken place in my short lifetime, I'd rather over-react than under-react.

blarby
March 5, 2012, 03:54 PM
Perhaps. Yet I'm sure the jews were told the same thing about their registration.

Wow. I guess when you have a hammer, those nails do start popping up everywhere.


I really think that any link between holocaust era weapons collection and registration and this event is straining credulity at the very best.

The difference between these two events, and how they are applied, is really pretty apparent. So is the legislatures intent in their wording of this, to make it NOT that scenario.

Geez louise...

Orkan
March 5, 2012, 03:58 PM
I really think that any link between holocaust era weapons collection and registration and this event is straining credulity at the very best. It always does. It never seems possible... right until it happens.

If you doubt it... ask the austrailians, british, chinese, or russians.

If you think they'll be up-front about firearm confiscation, you are dead wrong. They'll do it like thieves in the night. Just like they did during katrina. The blase attitude about it gives those that want to do it all the reinforcement they need.

No government at any level has any business regulating or otherwise denying movement or firearms ownership in this country. Our constitution prohibits it. Yet the acceptance of it by many Americans is what leads to it continuing.

rajb123
March 5, 2012, 04:01 PM
...this action by the authorities seems very harsh and unneccessary.....if you give the government the authority to do this, they will.... and that is ignoring our rights under the 2nd...

If you told me this was happening in California or NY, I would not be surprised. ...but NC??? Yikes!

blarby
March 5, 2012, 04:01 PM
Okily dokily....... Going back to the land of reason now.

S'been an interesting diversion.

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 04:08 PM
this wasn't as much about the guns as it was about the total loss if rights here... the laws I posted were very clear, and it is a CRIME to be on your front porch, in your yard, or out on your farm after 6:30 pm. that means if you go out to your car to get say, your sweater or cigarette lighter you can be arrested.

This is not in the suburbs, this is a rural area where most people own at least 5 acres of land, usually much more.

No one ever said they were confiscating guns out of your home here anyhow, don't know where some of you got that from.

And anyone saying "don't worry about it" I'd like to see you say the same thing after getting arrested for taking your garbage out after 6:30...

this is pretty darn heinous, now of course nothing like what I mentioned will happen, but the fact that the law allows for it is what worries me!

Orkan
March 5, 2012, 04:11 PM
this is pretty darn heinous, now of course nothing like what I mentioned will happen, but the fact that the law allows for it is what worries me! If it's written in law, then they can do it, and anyone resisting will be considered a "criminal." Once you are labelled a "criminal," society at large really doesn't care what happens to you.

hso
March 5, 2012, 04:15 PM
Orkan,

No one is coming onto anyone's property and taking anyone's guns away in NC. You should look at what's actually happening and tone the hyperbolic rhetoric down to fit the real situation. There won't be anyone on your side of the sights left if you start shooting LE that come onto your property without prior permission. Paranoid rants don't fit in with THR.

What needs to be done is calls are needed to get the NC Governor to dump ice water on the county and get them to change their overstated restriction to "property" instead of "home" AND the folks in NC need to get organized and get NC state law revised to permit CCW in emergencies.

Owen Sparks
March 5, 2012, 04:18 PM
Yes, State of Emergency means temporary suspension your concealed carry permit and many other privileges

This is the problem right here.
Rights have become privileges to be granted and denied by the state.

henschman
March 5, 2012, 04:20 PM
One way to fight this would be to make yourself a test case. Carry a gun in a method that would otherwise be completely legal, such as concealed pursuant to a concealed carry license, and then basically try to go get arrested for it. Go to the disaster area and tell any officers you see that you believe this ordinance to be unconstitutional and that you are carrying a gun. If you get arrested and charged, you can invoke the 2nd Amendment defense, and/or the corresponding part of your state's constitution. You might even be able to get an NRA lawyer, but don't count on it. Plan on funding your own legal defense if you are going to take this course of action.

Orkan
March 5, 2012, 04:36 PM
No one is coming onto anyone's property and taking anyone's guns away in NC. You should look at what's actually happening and tone the hyperbolic rhetoric down to fit the real situation. Actually, they did. Maybe not this time, but during katrina they did exactly that. They came into people's homes, and took their guns. This was clearly documented as fact. I personally talked to someone that had it happen. There was also a documentary made about it.

I for one, don't want to see that happen again, for any reason.

Is that not a real situation? It may not be happening now, but I'm with the OP. I'm not for any law that makes it easily possible. I agree, they need to get together and change the law to remove that offensive wording in regard to ALL of the citizens constitutional rights. I don't see how that is hyperbolic rhetoric.

JohnBT
March 5, 2012, 04:42 PM
www.wxii12.com/weather/22487153/detail.html

"The state of emergency was lifted Monday morning" in the town of King. Looks like King is in Stokes County.

Hundreds of "threats" were received. No arrests for driving after midnight, etc.


“By law, statute 14-288.7 automatically went into effect. And that law which goes into effect when there’s a state of emergency prohibits the transportation, purchase sale and possession of firearms other than on one's own premises.”

JohnBT
March 5, 2012, 04:44 PM
Note that it was lifted this morning. It's 3:43 p.m. on the east coast now and the fearmongering has continued for hours.

blarby
March 5, 2012, 04:49 PM
Dwelling :

According to N.C. Gen. Stat. § 160A-442 , "Dwelling" means any building, structure, manufactured home or mobile home, or part thereof, used and occupied for human habitation or intended to be so used, and includes any outhouses and appurtenances belonging thereto or usually enjoyed therewith, except that it does not include any manufactured home or mobile home, which is used solely for a seasonal vacation purpose.

According to N.C. Gen. Stat. § 53-244.030, "Dwelling" means a residential structure that contains one to four units, whether or not that structure is attached to real property. The term includes an individual condominium unit, cooperative unit, manufactured home, mobile home, or trailer if it is used as a residence.

Your porch is OK. Any appurtenant structure is OK. Driveways, if improved, are considered structures in the eyes of the law, and insurance.

so :

this wasn't as much about the guns as it was about the total loss if rights here... the laws I posted were very clear, and it is a CRIME to be on your front porch, in your yard, or out on your farm after 6:30 pm. that means if you go out to your car to get say, your sweater or cigarette lighter you can be arrested.
Are all basically false statements in light of that information.


Perhaps heading over to the neighbor down the road to exchange water for some fruits he has.
Perhaps heading over to see your neighbor friend to celebrate his birthday.
Perhaps bringing food over to the church that might be a makeshift shelter for some of the people that lost their homes.

All of which can be accomplished during daylight hours. An evening disco in a disaster zone is both highly unlikely, and as stated- dangerous to those parties concerns. The reason(s) for that as stated :

These areas are without power and may pose a dangerous environment to homeowners, travelers and community members.

Are clear, reasonable, and the implementation of that for a limited duration, is prudent.

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 04:51 PM
fearmongering??? gee thanks. and by the way, know before you speak. I don't know where the person who posted that the restrictions were lifted was referring to, but not here in my town. it's still in effect.

SharpsDressedMan
March 5, 2012, 04:59 PM
Under martial law, I like to think I'd be a new criminal, like those in 1776.................

blarby
March 5, 2012, 05:06 PM
So, in actuality, your restrictions under the law given the correct definitions, would be basically limited to traversing unimproved farmland.

There could presumably be some grey area on large expanses of lawn as well.

You would be clear in this instance attending to livestock in proximity of their housing, as well. ( For instance, gathering livestock from pasture back to your barn had they escaped)

Just that the definition of "home" and "property" in this instance are not in actuality, transparent at first reading....but upon detailed review, actually to me sounds appropriate.

Given that information Hso, does that seem more reasonable ?

MEHavey
March 5, 2012, 05:13 PM
They are attempting to stop armed looting/pillaging -- and worse -- which disasters seem to encourage.
Both curfew and weapons ban assist in that regard and are normal.

Weapons seizure would not be.

hso
March 5, 2012, 05:18 PM
If the discussion isn't actually about firearms, as the OP now indicates, we don't actually have a discussion within scope of THR.

zxcvbob
March 5, 2012, 05:27 PM
All of which can be accomplished during daylight hours. An evening disco in a disaster zone is both highly unlikely, and as stated- dangerous to those parties concerns.

Disco sucks. :cool:

(somebody had to say it)

jbrown50
March 5, 2012, 05:47 PM
They are attempting to stop armed looting/pillaging -- and worse -- which disasters seem to encourage.
Both curfew and weapons ban assist in that regard and are normal.

Weapons seizure would not be.
So....what you're saying is that citizens lawfully carrying firearms would be participating in armed looting/pillaging -- and worse?

Tim37
March 5, 2012, 05:53 PM
14 years ago a tornado when through close to where i live then about 12 years ago one hit where i live. both times the national gaurd was called out they set up check points and would turn people away after a ceritain time if they didnt live in the area. there was a patrol that came through fairly regulary it was a hassle but they where concerned about looting. while there wasnt ever any 2nd amendment violations (infact nothing was said to locals cleaning up with a holster on there side) there where some definite consitutional rights that got bent up during all that. imho it was the best thing to do at the time to help out the people who had been hit and werent able to stay around to protect there stuff from looters.
the curfew is probably in place so the locals will know to stop and question any one who is out and about at night make sure there not up to something.

Bubbles
March 5, 2012, 05:54 PM
You would be clear in this instance attending to livestock in proximity of their housing, as well. ( For instance, gathering livestock from pasture back to your barn had they escaped)
Which does bring up another point - natural disasters can destroy fencing. If I'm on my farm or ranch and carrying a varmint rifle, which is not unusual, if there's now a "state of emergency" and I've got livestock running all over the roads because my fences were flattened, do I have to take the gun home before rounding up my cows?

guyfromohio
March 5, 2012, 05:54 PM
MeHavey.... dangerous logic.

blarby
March 5, 2012, 06:03 PM
@ bubbles :

Laws in your state may differ.

Gary @ gunlaws is trying to form a list of emergency state powers in relation to guns....you could find and assist by visiting here :

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=647500

You could be of great assistance in helping others with the answer to your question by finding it !

Yoda
March 5, 2012, 07:16 PM
They can't touch your guns if they're taking federal funds. Here's the law:

PUBLIC LAW 109–295—OCT. 4, 2006 SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES. ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS

”No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may;

(1) temporarily or permanently seize…any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law…;‘‘

(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;”

(3) prohibit possession of any firearm…in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or

(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law…

(b) LIMITATION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit …the temporary surrender of a firearm as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation during a major disaster or emergency, provided that such temporarily surrendered firearm is returned at the completion of such rescue or evacuation.

---Yoda

Yoda
March 5, 2012, 07:21 PM
FS 252.36

During emergencies, the Governor may suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles.

“…nothing contained in …252.31-252.90 shall be construed to authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in the commission of a criminal act.”

FS 870.044

During a state of emergency, the following is prohibited:

Sale of, or offer to sell, with or without consideration, any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description.

Intentional display by or in any store or shop of any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description

Intentional possession in a public place of a firearm by any person, except a duly authorized law enforcement official or person in military service acting in the official performance of her or his duty.

Nothing …in this chapter…authorize(s) the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in a criminal act.


---Yoda

SharpsDressedMan
March 5, 2012, 07:36 PM
Armed citizens make up the security force when there are not enough police and military during a disaster or emergency. Why would they feel it was logical to chase legally armed, and well intentioned, people off the streets? Did the authorities forget WHERE they get their authority?

BCCL
March 5, 2012, 07:51 PM
The irony is, 14 miles from here, Harrisburg, IL. got really slammed by a Tornado last week, 25 business' and about 200+ homes destroyed, and while they did post a curfew, nobody even thought about suspending gun and ammo sales...and this is Illinois!

hogshead
March 5, 2012, 07:55 PM
blarby If my livestock get out chances are they are not gonna be on my property.If I am on my 4 wheeler [which I usually ride when rounding up loose livestock] I will have a rifle on the front rack. May have to put a animal down or something may be chasing them. So I would be a moving violation waiting to happen.

hipoint
March 5, 2012, 08:11 PM
the curfew law that I posted was very clear... maybe folks aren't reading back that far and only responding to the last few comments (I have been guilty of that as well).

The law states that you have to be INDOORS after 6:30 p.m. period. says nothing about property or otherwise, specifically INDOORS. Now, the rest of it states that during the state of emergency you cannot transport alcohol or firearms off of your PROPERTY so that means you're cool to carry a gun around the farm, just not off of it.

Anyhow, the curfew was lifted this evening and as far as I know there were no foolish arrests (I wasn't expecting any) but this whole thing has really opened my eyes, this storm was NOT THAT BAD, and we live in a very rural area, meaning there aren't going to be roving hordes of looters as there are no hordes to be found except for maybe wal-mart on a saturday afternoon :D

These folks can pretty much do whatever they like with little to no oversight as long as they declare a state of emergency, and while this was a little more than we normally get, it's really not that big of a deal, I mean we're talking 20 homes in the entire county and a handful of businesses... So, at the risk of sounding like a 'prepper' stock up on the things you might need because it doesn't take anything for 'the man' to limit your access to things.

I'm glad it's all over now, but take this as a real wakeup call folks, all it takes is a podunk county commissioner to sign a piece of paper and suddenly you're a criminal for going out your front door when they tell you not to!

blarby
March 6, 2012, 12:05 AM
Actually, it says you must be inside a DWELLING, hence my offering of the definition as it applies to your state.

edit : SPECIFICALLY it does not mention INDOORS. PERIOD. It says INSIDE A HOUSE DWELLING

edit : FWIW, "Inside" can be reasonably expected to be "within the boundaries of" and frequently is interpreted to mean just that.

edit : I'm fairly certain that those drawing up the law and its verbiage were aware of both the existing law, and the definitions of that particular verbiage, as it pertains to their state....even if their constituents do not.

Glad it blew over....no pun intended.

hso
March 6, 2012, 12:16 AM
all it takes is a podunk county commissioner who then has to be barraged with complaints and threats of being unseated in the next election for overstepping.

razorback2003
March 6, 2012, 01:20 AM
I don't think we have this sort of law in Tennessee. I do know that I would not want to be out after dark in a disaster area roaming around. I remember some areas that were flooded last year and the year before last had curfews, but not this whole not being able to carry handguns off your property. I think we have a law that prevents that. I'd conceal my gun anyway and not want anyone to see it to avoid some of the less educated police.

blarby
March 6, 2012, 06:42 AM
For humor and not, but to lighten the tone a little...especially my tone towards the OP, I offer this :

The interesting part to me is...

When you read it clearly, its almost as if they are actually saying : ( in the old tymey sheriffs voice)

"Since there's been an epic disaster in your area and you have no power....... we're enforcing the commonsense prudence of : Keep your guns and bombs and booze on your property , stay safe, have a drink, let us handle this- Oh, and when its dark....since you have no power...if you have a structure...go there for shelter.

If you had the forethought to own enough firearms to get your hose in a wad over this, but not a jug of whiskey- thats your own dang fault. Wait a couple days, or go to the next county where they have power to sell it to you....during the day.

If you have enough whiskey, but not enough guns....mebbe its better that way until this blows over....if you dont think so, go to the next county tomorrow.....during the day.

If'n you need a reminder....we have a disaster here...if you really need us to explain to ya why to stay inside when its cold and wet, and dark, and theres no power... and theres tornaders ! eveywhere !.... perhaps you need a little less whiskey, and a little more coffee.

We ain't tryin to arrest nobody..... we ain't tryin to take yer guns....we're trying to keep everyone safe. :cuss: "

It is not amazing to me that with the stress of this event, combined with some predispositions about your local elected officials designs on you, that the mind might wander into some interesting directions. Vapors....hysterics mebbe.

By all accounts, no one was arrested...... I'm sure the threat of law kept those few with foul intentions away from the area *snicker*.... maybe knowing the authorities had eliminated the need for probable cause to interact with them by setting a "curfew".

I'm sure everyone who broke that curfew and were observed doing so got an immediate inquiry as to why....and either sent back to their homes, or allowed on their way. By the news accounts....thats exactly what happened.

As has been stated in not so many words, from many many folks : Not every set of rules that arises from circumstance is designed to grind you mercilessly with the thumb of authority. Some people just need a splash of reality water in hard times to get them to do the obvious right things.

We used to call that common sense. Seems to have eroded a LOT in the last generation (of which I am a part, but not party to.)... people seemed to lose it, and we started gettin all these rule sets....but thats another issue, for another thread.

Theres a time and a place for everything... I'd be cranky if I needed to run out at 930pm for smokes and beer too, and couldn't :eek:...... but sometimes you gotta look at the whole picture, not just the glowy parts.

NOW, not that its a total wolf cry..... IF they had (or START to) shown up and started haulin off your booze or guns....or mebbe even your bombs... PLEASE LET US KNOW. We want the truth from the folks on the ground....I'm sure someone'll send Uncle Pauly on a horse if we get word in time.

In the meantime.....everyone take a minute to refresh yourselves on the emergency powers vested in your local gov't. If'n ya don't like 'em.....we're still sort of a :scrutiny: democracy, you have avenues ( as Hso points out frequently) to address those grievances. DO SO.

For those of you unfortunate enough to be in these areas : My heart goes out to ya.

"This too, shall pass"

Flopsweat
March 6, 2012, 06:44 AM
They can't touch your guns if they're taking federal funds. Here's the law:

PUBLIC LAW 109–295—OCT. 4, 2006 SEC. 706. FIREARMS POLICIES. ‘‘(a) PROHIBITION ON CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS

”No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may;

(1) temporarily or permanently seize…any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law…;‘‘

(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;”

(3) prohibit possession of any firearm…in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or

(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law…

(b) LIMITATION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit …the temporary surrender of a firearm as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation during a major disaster or emergency, provided that such temporarily surrendered firearm is returned at the completion of such rescue or evacuation.

---Yoda
Very nice work Yoda.

Highpoint, you may want to bring this to the attention of the Board of Commissioners. Perhaps assume that they meant no harm, at least while you're dealing with them. You may find them a bit more open to suggestion this way.

My only real beef is that they didn't allow a responsible firearm owner to carry while off their property in daylight hours. You may need supplies, or need to help a friend, relative or neighbor. If it's so dangerous that they need a curfew, then it's dangerous enough for you to need a sidearm.

JohnBT
March 6, 2012, 09:45 AM
"I live in a small town"

Next time post the town's name in your first post and I won't have to guess and resort to google searches. Actually, your first post doesn't even contain your state.

"Anyhow, the curfew was lifted this evening"

So the sky didn't fall. In the word of a famous tv star, "Nevermind"

John

P.S. - My first guess as to your location was Guilford County because I'm familiar, or used to be, with the town of High Point and the furniture business.

sixgunner455
March 6, 2012, 09:52 AM
I have really resisted responding to this thread, but something has been bugging me since I read it last night, and continues to.

English definitions of words:

Keep: own, possess, have.
Bear: carry about, have with you
Infringe: restrict, encroach upon

It seems that, temporarily, two of three of those words were violated. One was partially.

Whether this was a big deal or not is another issue.

hso
March 6, 2012, 12:16 PM
I doubt that the county actually had the authority to declare a state of emergency with the restrictions put forth. They probably got overwhelmed and overstepped their authority invoking state restrictions instead of just declaring a curfew and restricting access to residents and S&R personnel. They should be spanked for such overwrought panicky behavior..

Kevin Rohrer
March 6, 2012, 01:41 PM
Why would they feel it was logical to chase legally armed, and well intentioned, people off the streets? Did the authorities forget WHERE they get their authority?

Because the authorities can't magically divine who should and should not be there, so they have to apply the law equally to everyone.

But as we both know, laws aren't applied equally, and law abiding citizens would probably get a "pass" as long as they didn't add to the problem. If things got bad enough I'd probably deputize a few to assist (I'd keep you on a short leash :neener:).

Moiderator: Greg and I have been friends since high school.

zxcvbob
March 6, 2012, 01:51 PM
The local authorities (mayor? sheriff?) probably do have the authority to declare an emergency for a specified number of days until the governor can do so, but I'll bet the state limits the scope of the restrictions and the county commissioner here surely exceeded his authority. Especially with regards to licensed concealed carry, cuz that's a state license and usually there are laws about preemption.

State laws generally spell all this out in boring detail. (boring until you actually need it)

gearhead
March 6, 2012, 02:21 PM
Some posters are acting as if 6:30pm is pitch dark, too. Keep in mind, most of the county and most of the businesses weren't severely damaged so the bulk of the populance affected by this ruling are having to go to work and school and all the other things that must happen on a schedule. It's hardly out of the question for someone to not even get home from work until 6:30pm then need to spend the next hour or so of partial light cutting fallen trees, repairing the roof, attending to other necessary duties. I've weathered several hurricanes when I lived on the Gulf coast, that's what we all had to do.

jimmyraythomason
March 6, 2012, 02:28 PM
Especially with regards to licensed concealed carry, cuz that's a state license and usually there are laws about preemption.

Partially true here. My state does have pre-emption authority in most things concerning handguns. The sheriff of the county has the authority to issue or refuse to issue as he sees fit(with-in state law). He can also nullify any CCW permit at his discretion as during an emergency. He is the only one in the county with the authority to do so.

Certaindeaf
March 6, 2012, 02:35 PM
I think and hope it's code for "watch your 6" and or you are being watched.. thankfully. Be prepared to be questioned.. there are bad people in the world that will strip the bones from a given carcass/homestead and we pay people to check things out.
If you belong and have pressing business, I think you'll be given a pass in the real world. No big whoop?

If you enjoyed reading about "Martial Law is happening now, removal of second amendment rights as well as others!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!