Who likes the 7mm-08....


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TRguy
March 5, 2012, 12:16 PM
Who likes the 7mm-08....

I definitely have enjoyed the round.

http://accurateshooter.net/pix/sae7mm08x350.png

When the U.S. Military looked to replace the venerable 30-06 in its battle-rifles and machine guns, it came up with the 7.6251 NATO, aka .308 Winchester in civilian guise. The .308 Win is a great cartridge, but, in some respects, the 7mm-08 is better. The 7mm-08 is a necked-down version of the .308 Win. With the exception of neck diameter, the 7mm-08 is virtually the same dimensionally. But when you compare heavy bullets, grain for grain, the 7mm-08 offers better ballistics. In other words a 168-grainer fired from a 7mm-08 will exhibit less drop and less windage than a 168gr bullet fired from a .308 Win. The 7mm-08 enjoys most of the advantages of the .308 (inherent accuracy, long barrel life, excellent terminal performance) while offering better ballistics grain for grain.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/7mm/#7mm08

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Kachok
March 5, 2012, 12:30 PM
Like the 7-08, I thought I was going to get one of my own when I went shopping for my "all-weather-featherweight" but I found a steal on a stainless T3 6.5x55 instead. Still want either a 7-08 or 7x57 to keep it company, just in case I need two perfect deer rifles :D

bigshark14
March 5, 2012, 03:35 PM
It is, by all accounts, a great round. I just completed shopping for a new rifle. The price of a box of ammunition in 7mm-08 (v. .308Win) and the wider availability of .308Win ammunition made me go with the parent cartridge. Otherwise I think 7mm-08 is a perfect hunting round.

TRguy
March 5, 2012, 03:39 PM
It is, by all accounts, a great round. I just completed shopping for a new rifle. The price of a box of ammunition in 7mm-08 (v. .308Win) and the wider availability of .308Win ammunition made me go with the parent cartridge. Otherwise I think 7mm-08 is a perfect hunting round.

Definitely think it is a cartridge where you need to reload, not only for cost effectiveness of the ammo to also to be able to pull all the performance out of it. Factory to me just seems so vanilla one size fits all mentality.

Skyshot
March 5, 2012, 03:45 PM
Super round, but I like just about anything that is based on the .308 parent case

BCRider
March 5, 2012, 04:24 PM
With the wide variety of 7mm bullets out there it opens up a LOT of options for loads as well. Not that there's any lack of selection in .308 either. But as mentioned the better BC of the same weight 7mm lends a little less drop to equivalent weights at whatever distance.

Also all in all MOST of the 7mm bullets will tend to be a little lighter than the .308 options. This will tend to slightly reduce the recoil for those of us who care. Yet being lighter the same charge sends them downrange with more speed. Again a flatter trajectory being the outcome.

The only drawback is that like the rest I found factory options be be less than plentiful around my area. And in fact I ended up getting the supplies and reloading my first batch of them before I managed to find any in the local stores.

Kachok
March 5, 2012, 04:54 PM
Definitely think it is a cartridge where you need to reload, not only for cost effectiveness of the ammo to also to be able to pull all the performance out of it. Factory to me just seems so vanilla one size fits all mentality.
^ +1 they are really flooded with 140gr soft points, not much outside of that. I DO handload, and I can make a 7-08 do anything I would need a small caliber for. 120gr BTs @ 3,200fps performing much like a 130gr 270 win, 140s @ 2950fps as an all around deer hog load, and hefty 160gr Accubonds for game as large as elk/moose within reasonable ranges. Some calibers beg to be handloaded, 7-08, 6.5x55, 280rem, 25-06 and 260 Rem are great examples of that, others don't need it as much, if my 30-06 were my only hunting rifle I would probably have never started rolling my own.

mnhntr
March 5, 2012, 04:58 PM
If you think the ballistics of the 7mm-08 are better than the .308, than the .260 rem is better yet.

wlewisiii
March 5, 2012, 05:22 PM
The 7mm-08 is great and I liked the one I had but I am putting together a carbine length Mauser in 7x57 instead. I just like the older one a bit better. No good reason; their basically ballistic twins but I like it.

sgtstryker
March 5, 2012, 05:36 PM
This is an almost perfect whitetail round, IMO. Had an Encore in this chambering and it was deadly accurate and consistently put 'em down.

Kachok
March 5, 2012, 06:37 PM
The 7mm-08 is great and I liked the one I had but I am putting together a carbine length Mauser in 7x57 instead. I just like the older one a bit better. No good reason; their basically ballistic twins but I like it.
Two key differences. One is a short action, and the 7x57 is almost always a tighter twist to stabalize heavier bullets. 120gr-140gr advantage 7-08 150gr-188gr advantage 7x57. Technicly they will push bullets of the same weight at near identical speeds, with a slight advantage going to the higher perssure 7-08.
I chose the 6.5x55 over the 260, and would go 7x57 over the 7-08, I just like the old school rounds and really heavy bullets I guess.

wlewisiii
March 5, 2012, 07:33 PM
Yeah, I like 175's in my 7x57. I'm building my carbine on a VZ-24 action so the shorter length isn't a big deal for me.

As for the 6.5x55, I really need to find a nice swede ;)

greenlion
March 5, 2012, 07:33 PM
In other words a 168-grainer fired from a 7mm-08 will exhibit less drop and less windage than a 168gr bullet fired from a .308 Win.

The load data that I see on websites like Hodgdon has the heavier weight bullets (168gr, 175gr) in .308 winchester going somewhere between 100 and 200 fps faster than the same weights in 7mm-08, so how can that be true? Please explain.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 5, 2012, 07:37 PM
The load data that I see on websites like Hodgdon has the heavier weight bullets (168gr, 175gr) in .308 winchester going somewhere between 100 and 200 fps faster than the same weights in 7mm-08, so how can that be true? Please explain.

Muzzle speeds may be a smidge faster, but the ballistic coefficient of the .284 bullets (7mm) are better which gives them better down range performance.

Kachok
March 5, 2012, 07:38 PM
308 runs at higher pressure and has a greater cross section to push aginst. It can be pushed faster, but with the same weight the 7mm will (usualy) retain energy better and penatrate deeper. That is the magic of 6.5 and 7mm projectiles, they are not the fastest at the muzzle, but they are faster downrange and through the target, that is where it really matters. Other calibers have heavy high SD/BC bullets available, but they are usualy less popular. 200gr 30 cals, and 250-300gr 338 cals can be fantastic as well, but the recoil tends to be on the heavy side so people don't use them as much. Recoil on a 140gr 6.5 or 160gr 7mm is very managable even for novice shooters. Calibers smaller the 6.5mm would have to have a crazy high twist rate to stabalize very heavy for caliber bullets, that is why you don't see any 140gr quarterbores or 130gr 6mms.

TwoEyedJack
March 5, 2012, 09:07 PM
I got my son a Weatherby Vanguard youth model in 7MM-08. It came with two stocks instead of the funky but plate spacer they use now. Very nice rifle. I have experimented with some handloads, mainly 140 gr. ballistic tips and H4350. It feel like it wants to shoot but the best I have been able to get is around 1" to 1.5" for 3 shots out of a cold barrel at 100 yards. I have also tried the 120 gr. Vmax with similar results. It would be fun to find a load that makes it into a real tack driver.

moxie
March 5, 2012, 09:27 PM
I love the round too, but fail to see how it is better in terms of windage than the .308.

kimbernut
March 5, 2012, 09:32 PM
I became the second owner of a Remington model7 LSS in 2001 and scoped it with a Leupold VX2 3-9x40. It has been my deer/hog rifle since then. I've handloaded 950 rounds for it with a 130 gr. Speer SPBT at 2800 fps average that will shoot cloverleaf groups on my good days. I think I'll keep it.
I've tried to like the .308 Win. and just cannot seem to make it happen.

rbernie
March 5, 2012, 09:34 PM
It is, by all accounts, a great round. I just completed shopping for a new rifle. The price of a box of ammunition in 7mm-08 (v. .308Win) and the wider availability of .308Win ammunition made me go with the parent cartridge. Otherwise I think 7mm-08 is a perfect hunting round.This pretty much covers it for me.

On paper, it's a great round. In practice, I find that 308 is simply more accessible and affordable (and field practice is more important to me than paper ballistics).

docsleepy
March 5, 2012, 09:48 PM
It's my favorite, but then I reload for it. Price of ammunition is higher, probably due to lower demand. Reloading makes it a great round.

adelbridge
March 5, 2012, 09:59 PM
It is too similar to the .270 unless you have to have a short action.

rbernie
March 5, 2012, 10:19 PM
One of my disappointments has been the lack of 7mm08 offerings for AR10-style platforms. It seems like you can find 243 and 260 and 308 barrels all day long, but very few 7mm08 barrels for the big AR platform.....

CheckFire
March 5, 2012, 10:29 PM
I love my 7-08 in a Browning micro-medallion, for far-back mountain hardwoods hunting--- the WT's hanging over my fireplace hated it. Go figure.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 5, 2012, 10:39 PM
One of my disappointments has been the lack of 7mm08 offerings for AR10-style platforms. It seems like you can find 243 and 260 and 308 barrels all day long, but very few 7mm08 barrels for the big AR platform

Accuracy Systems has them rbernie. I just got mine not long ago and to put it mildly, It's fast becoming one of my favorites in the rack. It was by no means cheap but I've always said, you get what you pay for. Here is the site if you wish to check them out for yourself. http://www.ar-10-rifles.com/index.php

greenlion
March 5, 2012, 11:25 PM
Muzzle speeds may be a smidge faster, but the ballistic coefficient of the .284 bullets (7mm) are better which gives them better down range performance.

Hmm. Had to look that up in the ballistic tables to prove it to myself, but you are correct. I would have thought that of the 7mm magnum, but not the 7mm-08.

Then again they are using a 24 inch test barrel for the 7mm-08 and a 22 inch barrel for the .308 win, so the difference may not be as much as it looks in those tables.

336A
March 6, 2012, 12:00 AM
The load data that I see on websites like Hodgdon has the heavier weight bullets (168gr, 175gr) in .308 winchester going somewhere between 100 and 200 fps faster than the same weights in 7mm-08, so how can that be true? Please explain.

When comparing cartridges of different calibers one can't go off of bullet weight alone. Look at the sectional densities (SD) of the bullet weight for the given caliber. Shooting a 140gr bullet out of a 7mm cartridge is comprable to shooting a 165gr bullet from a .30 caliber cartridge, a 154gr 7mm is comprable to a 180gr .30 cal so on and so forth. The 7-08 is a great cartridge it is just a shame that it is mostly limited to 140gr offerings.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 6, 2012, 12:49 AM
greenlion, you are getting the cartridge itself mixed up with the bullets. 7mm Mag uses the same bullets as the 7mm.08 (except the 7mm Mag can go a bit bigger in grain). And as far as barrel length, the .308 actually performs at almost it's best at 22 inch barrel lengths. The cartridge was actually designed for shorter barrel performance. 7mm.08 does as well. Anything from 20 inches to 24 is a beautiful length for either cartridge. It is all in the geometry of the shoulder. The case itself just lends to an efficient burn rate which transfers to the ability to perform well from shorter barrel lengths. It's why BOTH of them get such great results from hand-loading. I myself feel the 7mm.08 is the ultimate white-tail deer and hog cartridge. Shoots flatter, retains energy longer at the same grain weights and recoils a good bit less.

greenlion
March 6, 2012, 06:22 AM
I'm not mixed up about it. I know the bullets in the 7mm-08 and 7mm mag are the same, thats why they are called 7mm. I am simply surprised that the 7mm08, being in the same case as the .308 can push a heavyweight bullet that much faster than a .308 to make much difference.

Thinking about it again, I'm still not convinced. The only bullets I can compare with exactly equal weights are 130 grain (light for both calibers) and not the heavy 168/175 grain bullets you all are talking about. Given the 2 inch advantage in barrel length (in favor of the 7mm-08) in my book, and the fact that the 7mm08 favors lighter bullets, I still don't believe it, until someone provides published data from a trusted source. I would buy it for light bullets, but not for bullets that heavy.

Anybody have any published data on heavier bullets comparing apples to apples with no anecdotes?

1911Tuner
March 6, 2012, 07:12 AM
The 7-08 is a good cartridge. Whether it holds enough of an edge over the .308 to make a real difference at reasonable hunting ranges is up for debate. A few ft lbs of energy or an inch or two in trajectory at 300 yards is pretty much a non-issue. The two are essentially ballistic twins, much like the .30-30 and the .32 Special. Flip a coin.

a-sheepdog
March 6, 2012, 02:57 PM
I own two 7mm-08 rifles and think they are a great cartridge for multiple applications.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 6, 2012, 04:46 PM
A few ft lbs of energy or an inch or two in trajectory at 300 yards is pretty much a non-issue

Given equal bullet weights (154gr Interbond vs the 155gr A-Max) the 7mm.08 at 300 yards will have 94 foot pounds more energy and be 2.5 inches higher. Now I don't know about you, but 2.5 inches to me could very well mean hit or miss. And 94 foot pounds could mean the difference of pass through or not. The BC of .284 diameter bullets are just higher. Plain and simple. And that is conducive of better performance downrange. Not taking away from the .308W as it is a fantastic cartridge itself but you gotta give credit where it is due. The 7mm.08 is just flat out an advancement of the .308W cartridge. I'll take better downrange performance with LESS recoil any day of the week and twice on Sunday :D

Kachok
March 6, 2012, 05:16 PM
I'll take better downrange performance with LESS recoil any day of the week and twice on Sunday :D
Says the man that totes a compact 500 S&W as his CCW :D

BigN
March 6, 2012, 05:17 PM
Absolutely. Light bullets, heavy bullets, accurate as all get out, very little recoil, what's not to like?

mljdeckard
March 6, 2012, 05:21 PM
I am planning on building uppers in .243, .308, and .260 for an AR-10. If those don't cover everything I need, I might look at a 7-08. And yes, most of this is made possible because I have started handloading.

valnar
March 6, 2012, 05:22 PM
.223, 6.5x55 and .308 covers me. If 6.5x55 didn't exist, I'd probably like 7mm-08 too. I'm partial to efficient cartridges (don't like 22-250, don't like magnums).


Edit: Responding to post below this.
Yep, if 6.5x55 or 7mm-08 didn't exist, my next favorite would be the 7x57.

Kachok
March 6, 2012, 05:37 PM
Chuck Hawks has said that the perfect deer cartrage is between the 6.5x55, 260 Rem, and 7-08 I tend to agree, they are highly accurate, moderate recoil, and more then enough energy/penatration to easly kill any deer that ever walked within any reasonable range. Though I would add 25-06, 257 Roberts and 7x57 to that list too.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 6, 2012, 06:27 PM
Says the man that totes a compact 500 S&W as his CCW

HA! Like hell I do. I carry it when I am in the Big Woods for big critters with teeth and claws. 1911 .45 is what I usually carry for CCW (When not in this socialist state of Illinois)

I am planning on building uppers in .243, .308, and .260 for an AR-10. If those don't cover everything I need, I might look at a 7-08.

mljdeckard, you would be quite pleased with one in 7mm.08. Just got mine not long ago from Accuracy Systems. With a hand-load that Flintknapper helped me come up with (kind of new to reloading for gas operated AR platform so timing was an issue and he helped me quite a bit) I am driving tacks with it. Clover leafing at 100 yards.

Flintknapper
March 7, 2012, 12:37 AM
Who likes the 7mm-08....



Can't say that I "like it"....cause I LOVE IT. ;)

It's a great cartridge for a lot of folks. I honestly wish I'd tried one sooner (had one for about 15 yrs. now).

I am not a person easily impressed....but the '08 charmed me right from the start.

greenlion
March 7, 2012, 06:18 AM
Given equal bullet weights (154gr Interbond vs the 155gr A-Max) the 7mm.08 at 300 yards will have 94 foot pounds more energy and be 2.5 inches higher. Now I don't know about you, but 2.5 inches to me could very well mean hit or miss. And 94 foot pounds could mean the difference of pass through or not. The BC of .284 diameter bullets are just higher. Plain and simple. And that is conducive of better performance downrange.

Don't know how you count to two hundred, but 154 and 155 are not equal bullet weights the way I do it. I'm curious where you got that data. If it is from a ballistics table, did the reloading book say what barrel length each caliber was in? I'm just wondering if the loads we are looking up ever reach those top velocities listed, since most of us do not have a 24 inch barrel on the 7mm-08 that my Speer reloading manual uses to test theirs.

Offfhand
March 7, 2012, 08:02 AM
The 7/08 is a good round and I used it for hunting and rifle competition (Silhouette) successfully for a few years. But then the .260 came along and I haven't bothered with the 7/08 since. Everything that is good about the 7/08 is even better with the .260.

GooseGestapo
March 7, 2012, 10:41 AM
The advantage of the 7mm-08 over the .308 isn't at 200 or 300yds. It really doesn't appear till out at 500yds and further. The momentum of the 162gr BtHp match bullets of the 7mm clearly out performs the .308 on metal silhouttes. The 162 and later 168gr .284" match bullets will start out from a 7mm08 around 100fps slower than the same weight bullet from a .308 given an equal barrel length. Due to significantly higher ballistic coefficients of the .284" bullets they surpass the .308 at and beyond 300yds.

The same goes for a comparison between the .260 and 7mm08. I have both in Remington Mod-7's. The 7mm08 will get close to 200fps faster velocities given the 140gr bullets. With a 150gr bullet, the 7mm08 is still 100fps faster than the .260 with a 140. Hence, I give the advantage to the 7mm. That, and the larger diameter gives the 7mm slightly better killing power.
At least that's been my experience between the two.

In my case though, the .260 has a decided advantage over the 7mm08 in that it averages groups less than 1/2 the size of the 7mm08. True, this is due to individual rifle differences, but, there lies the rub.....so to speak...
Have both, and have owned .308's. But, I "kept" the .30/06's...... dumped the .308's.

Kachok
March 7, 2012, 12:12 PM
When comparing bullets of the same BC the 260 is faster and flatter shooting then the 7-08 no doubt about it, and the 6.5mm projectiles are great on Bambi sized game, the advantage the 7-08 has over the 260 is larger caliber heavier bullets for larger game. Neither is " better" then the other, just depends on what you are putting holes in.
Target shooting. 123gr LS bullets have a .547BC and the the 260 can drive them to 3,000fps, that runs neck and neck with a 300 Win Mag VLD 185gr at max load. The 7-08 with a 140gr VLD is pushing .480BC with only 2,900fps very similar to what I can do with my 30-06.
Hunting. The 260 can push 120gr Ballistic Tips just over 3k with a .458BC this mimics the performance of the 130gr 270 win, mabey just a touch better downrange thanks to it's slightly higher BC. With 140 it can push 2,800 fps, faster then the 7-08 can push it's 160s, though I would perfer the 7mm bore for larger game paper ballistics be damned.

stxhunter
March 7, 2012, 12:18 PM
I don't have one, yet, but I've been thinking wether my next cartridge will be in 25-06 or in 7mm-08. I'm some what leaning to 7mm-08 because there is a much wider selection of bullets available in the caliber. There is just something about the 25-06 though that gets me excited, not sure what it is.

Robert101
March 7, 2012, 02:31 PM
I have no need for the 7mm 08 and here is why;
1. 308 reloading and factory components are more available.
2. 308 and 7mm are so ballistically close that it really doesn't matter.
3. 308 gun components are more available.
4. Ballistics aside, I like the 308 ability to handle heavier bullets and the larger diameter.
5. Recoil sensitivity is not really important in this comparison.

The way I look at this comparison is that, if I am going to step up in power or ballistic ability, it isn't going to be to a very marginal twin like the 7mm 08. I'd go to a 300 magnum. Conversly, if I want to step down due to recoil or much flatter trajectory then I'd go to a 6mm variant.

Go 30 cal. or above or go home.

killzone
March 7, 2012, 02:36 PM
I usually go to my local rage with my 308 since I kinda want to eat up my ammo. When I get worked up with my groups I sometimes wish I had my 7mm with me then to get my mood back up.

MMCSRET
March 7, 2012, 02:48 PM
I watched it for years, helped a neighbor develop hand loads for his. I fell into a beautifully sporterized Mauser with a butchered Remington barrel in 308, played with it, couldn't make it shoot. I'd had a brand new 7MM barrel standing in the corner for 5 years, got to looking and decided 7-08. The action was a 1909 Oberndorf intermediate length, would just fit the 7-08 really well, the action had been a Peruvian contract in 7.65X53. What a beautiful little carbine, I had the barrel done at 20". That 7-08 shoots everything well and most better than that. Great cartridge and gun.

1911Tuner
March 7, 2012, 02:56 PM
Now I don't know about you, but 2.5 inches to me could very well mean hit or miss. And 94 foot pounds could mean the difference of pass through or not.

Well...Unless you've got eagle eyes, you can't see 2.5 inches at 300 yards, much less hold to it under field conditions. Zero for 225-250 yards, and the trajectory will take care of itself from 25 out to 300...with either caliber...without having to hold over or under.

See: Maximum Point Blank Zero

In the second place, 94 ft lbs is roughly equal to a Smith & Wesson .32 Long (70 grains/800 fps) Do you really believe that'll mean the difference between venison and Mcdonald's for supper? (Assuming a well-placed shot)

I think not.

The advantage of the 7mm-08 over the .308 isn't at 200 or 300yds. It really doesn't appear till out at 500yds and further.

500 yards? Forsooth! I think there are better calibers for such distances.
Like the Scotsman said:

"Laddie...yer nau a real hoonter 'til ye've passed oop a shot."

I'll pass on 500 yards. I don't like to see wounded game animals run off.

6.5swede
March 7, 2012, 11:30 PM
The 7mm-08 is a sweetheart medium game cartridge as well as the 260/6.5x55 and 308. It's a fact that the 6.5mm bullets hold an advantage in BC and SD when compared to 7mm and 30cal bullets of same weight. But, the reality is that most shots taken on BG are well within 300yds (actually more like 100 -200yds), at least on the east coast and therefore a mute point. At those distances, your bullets BC and SD are not nearly as important as your bullets construction (ie - would you rather shoot a 200-300lb boar @ 100yds through both shoulders with a SMK or TSX?). If you routinely hunt wide open country and take 500yd+ shots, then the concern about your bullet's BC is valid. All the calibers mentioned have a good selection of well constructed hunting bullets available and will get the job done, emphatically, with a well placed bullet. The primary reason that I hunt medium game with a 7mm-08 or 260 (I have rifles in both) is that their SA and mild recoil can be had in a light, handy rifle that is a pleasure to shoot and practice with. No flies on the 308, but for me, just not as much fun to practice with in a LW rifle. I also think the availability of well constructed, deep penetrating bullets such as the TSX/TTSX, Accubond, or Partiton to name a few, level the playing field if you want to hunt with light for caliber bullets.

303tom
March 8, 2012, 09:21 AM
Yep, great round, I use it............

mnhntr
March 8, 2012, 09:34 AM
If you want the best of both of these cartridges get a .260 remington.I don't have one, yet, but I've been thinking wether my next cartridge will be in 25-06 or in 7mm-08. I'm some what leaning to 7mm-08 because there is a much wider selection of bullets available in the caliber. There is just something about the 25-06 though that gets me excited, not sure what it is.

RevGeo
March 8, 2012, 10:18 AM
Other than the fact that it can be used in a short action rifle I've never seen a need for the 7mm-08 when the 7x57 Mauser already exists. But 'need' has never been a prerequisite for getting another rifle;)
I like the Mauser round because of it's ability to utilize a wide range of bullet weights - it's main (only?) advantage over the 7mm-08.

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