Parking Lot Carry


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Rubikees
March 5, 2012, 09:04 PM
Crud, my wife starts at a new job and they specifically state that you will not carry in your car. They even wrote that they don't care if it is legal in that state, you will not have a firearm in your car on our parking lot and we will search to make sure that you don't. Talk about you European attitude to American laws about firearms and the 2nd amendment.:cuss:

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whatever
March 5, 2012, 09:24 PM
If, as your signature suggests, you are in Houston, the employer may not prohibit the carry of a firearm in an employees car unless they meet a limited number of exceptions. Their policy can state what it may, but it does not override the law.

Trunk Monkey
March 5, 2012, 09:25 PM
OK what is the legal question here? Did your wife sign a consent form as a condition of employment?

kbbailey
March 5, 2012, 09:34 PM
Must she park in the company parking lot??

Rubikees
March 5, 2012, 09:49 PM
Yes. The area she will be working in is rated 2nd highest in gang activity in the Houston area. I had to fight the company I work for for a couple of months before they changed their policy. It was interesting that it happened two days after I wrote to my state senator. He is an old Blue Dog Democrat that is a very strong supporter of the 2nd amendment and pushed for the parking lot bill.

danez71
March 5, 2012, 09:55 PM
They even wrote that they don't care if it is legal in that state, you will not have a firearm in your car on our parking lot and we will search to make sure that you don't.

Well if they actually wrote that.... actually put that in writing...you should be able to put a lot of pressure on them.

Most people dont like companies saying 'we are above the law' and a lot of lawyers make a living challanging that.

Rubikees
March 5, 2012, 09:59 PM
I did kind of drop a line to my state senator about it. Since he pushed for the law to be passed, he might take this as a personal insult.

seastrike
March 5, 2012, 09:59 PM
Why would you let your wife work for a company that searches her car?

I guess I'd roll over if it were national security or something but for a company to do or say they would do that "just because they can"....no thanks.

Rubikees
March 5, 2012, 10:04 PM
We did not know until they gave her the policy. Weapons is in section 10 of the handbook. She has been unemployed since November. One of the uncounted since she did not take unemployment benifits.

loganb
March 5, 2012, 10:20 PM
I may be mistaken but isn't Texas a Right to Work(Fire at will) state? At least in the states I've worked they may have the laws to attempt to prevent employers from making policy's that say you can't have it in the parking lot, but they can still fire you for no cause if they want, they just have to say you're no longer needed instead of giving an actual reason for dismissal. If they do it often enough it will likely raise their unemployment insurance rates as those dismissed will be eligible for benefits but unfortunately there isn't much one can do about it my knowledge. I work for a company that would fire you for firearms in your vehicle on company property if discovered, my work isn't in a bad part of town(rural area, town of 5k ppl so there isn't that bad of a part) but it still sucks.

smalls
March 6, 2012, 01:39 AM
Do they actually search cars on a regular basis? If not, she can carry and just make sure no one knows, but sit this game out, because I'm sure you've got mouths to feed (legally speaking).
Making a legal standpoint on the 2A is great, but what good is it if you starve?

breeze010
March 6, 2012, 01:38 PM
Do they actually search cars on a regular basis? If not, she can carry and just make sure no one knows, but sit this game out, because I'm sure you've got mouths to feed (legally speaking).
Making a legal standpoint on the 2A is great, but what good is it if you starve?
x2

I would do my research to verify she is within the law, leave it in the car and never mention it to anyone. Outside of some high security facility I can't see any employer routinely searching cars.

Rubikees
March 6, 2012, 07:32 PM
That is what we are going to do for the first few weeks, ears open. Then progress from there. At the same time, work with TSRA and my state senator to force companies to follow the law. Currently the only punishment to a company not following SB321 is a civil lawsuit.

Tim37
March 7, 2012, 12:56 AM
well it is the companies property so i guess they can make such a rule if they want. if i say you cant carry a ccw in my home then you cant its as simple as that. My guess would be the law would be on the companies side.

btw my company has a similar policy that states "no firearms on company property" clearly in the handbook. probably 75% of the guys have a ccw in there car along with me.

JohnKSa
March 7, 2012, 01:40 AM
They can't legally fire her for having a gun concealed in her locked car in the parking lot unless they meet one of the quite limited exceptions in TX law.

HOWEVER, the burden of proof would rest on you to prove that's why she was fired and that could be very difficult unless they were stupid enough to tell her why she was fired in front of witnesses or if they gave it to her in writing. Otherwise it wouldn't be easy or cheap.

As pointed out, TX is a right to work state which means they don't have to tell you much of anything to fire you..

Second, there's no penalty in the law for failing to comply with the law. Which means, at best, she might be able to get the job back and maybe some back pay if you could prove why she was fired.

Read the law and make sure that she's compliant with the law. Then determine the risk of being caught and being fired to the best of your ability and decide whether you're willing to run the risk. If they've never searched vehicles, it's highly unlikely that they'll start now--especially with the passage of the new law last year that would make open enforcement of a no guns in the cars in parking lots extremely stupid.At the same time, work with TSRA and my state senator to force companies to follow the law.Be circumspect. It's not uncommon for companies to consider their policy documents to be proprietary.

For example, if I were to provide a third party with policy documents from my company I could be terminated for that offense if they determined I was the culprit.

The point being, don't get fired for something you do in the process of trying to keep someone from firing you. ;)

BSA1
March 7, 2012, 09:20 PM
How much at risk is your wife traveling to and from work?

For me the answer is simple. I will not consent under any circumstances by anyone of a search of my home, property and vehicle. But it is tough being unemployed.

gallo
March 7, 2012, 09:47 PM
SB 321 was signed into law on May 2011. An employer can still fire you for company policy violation but they have no legal recourse against you for having a gun in the car.

If the employer is conducting car searches, are they also conducting body/purse searches? Nobody will be the wiser, and if the place is gang infested, the best place for your wife to have the gun is on her per person anyway.

Tim37
March 7, 2012, 10:13 PM
well it may be worth a try here. i cant remember the state minnesota michigan wisconsin or some other southern state has writen there laws in such a way that if a buisness decides to deny ccw in there establisment then they can be held liable if somthing where to happen to some one in there and a ccw holder that is present is willing to say they could have stopped it.

example your in a convent store that doesnt alow ccw's and someone comes in a robs the place and someone gets shot in the process. if you where to go to court on behalf of the victim and say you believe that if you had your wepon you could have stopped the crime then the store could be held liable.

i dont know if it would work in tx but it works there i just wish i could remember the state.

JohnKSa
March 7, 2012, 11:22 PM
An employer can still fire you for company policy violation but they have no legal recourse against you for having a gun in the car.SB321 was about preventing a company from having a policy of firing employees for legally having firearms in their vehicles. If you read the bill, it explicitly says that it only protects you if you're legally carrying. The law changes nothing in terms of the legality of carrying, it's specifically about preventing a company from terminating an employee caught legally concealing a firearm in his locked vehicle in the company parking lot.

crazyjennyblack
March 7, 2012, 11:35 PM
Even prisons that search employees cars don't do a very thorough search. So... build a secret compartment. Chances are it'll never be found. Regular searches tend to lend themselves to being ineffective.

You're more likely to get fired by making a big deal out of it legally, rather than circumventing it by being creative.

gallo
March 7, 2012, 11:46 PM
JohnKsa,

Thanks for the correction. Here is the link for the bill.
http://tx.opengovernment.org/system/bill_documents/001/190/175/original/SB00321H.htm?1308733672

bearcreek
March 8, 2012, 02:31 AM
I can't imagine it being legal for them to search the vehicle unless she signed something saying they could. I certainly wouldn't stand for something like that, gun or no gun.

JohnKSa
March 8, 2012, 02:34 AM
They can't force you to let them search your car. But they can tell you you're fired if you don't let them.

You wouldn't have to stand for it, but you wouldn't have a job if you refused to let them search.

altitude_19
March 8, 2012, 08:18 AM
Maybe keep it in the locked glove box and "lose" the key. I doubt they'd be willing to break the glove box to open it.

bearcreek
March 8, 2012, 10:57 AM
Keep the gun in a cardboard box that was sent through US mail. Make sure to keep the label and address intact but tape up the bottom or side just enough to keep it closed. It's a pretty serious offense to open someone's mail even if you're already doing an unjustified, warrantless search of their vehicle. :D

JellyJar
March 8, 2012, 11:03 AM
Find a good lawyer and consult with them about it.

Hammer-52
March 8, 2012, 11:04 AM
I would not suggest she take the firearm inside the building. Keep it in a locked case bolted/cabeled to the car. Or consider one of these: http://www.consolevault.com/

Best of luck!

oneounceload
March 8, 2012, 05:31 PM
I may be mistaken but isn't Texas a Right to Work(Fire at will) state? At least in the states I've worked they may have the laws to attempt to prevent employers from making policy's that say you can't have it in the parking lot, but they can still fire you for no cause if they want, they just have to say you're no longer needed instead of giving an actual reason for dismissal. If they do it often enough it will likely raise their unemployment insurance rates as those dismissed will be eligible for benefits but unfortunately there isn't much one can do about it my knowledge. I work for a company that would fire you for firearms in your vehicle on company property if discovered, my work isn't in a bad part of town(rural area, town of 5k ppl so there isn't that bad of a part) but it still sucks.

She will also most likely be on probation for a period of time where they can let you go without any reason at all

It also depends on where she is working - some locations, such as power and chemical plants, fall under Homeland Security and CAN prohibit you having a firearm on the property

Bonesinium
March 8, 2012, 07:28 PM
If the policy does not carry the weight of law, ignore it, don't mention it, and move on. Don't give them a reason to suspect anything, and the issue won't go anywhere.

CoreyI35
March 9, 2012, 10:16 PM
The way I read the bill, it's the companies compliance with the law that gives them some legal immunity. However, non-compliance with the law means they are no longer legally immune from (not-liable) for anything if somebody goes postal.

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