Rifle bore cleaning controversy


PDA






Mountainman1888
March 6, 2012, 12:38 AM
Hey gents, i have to open this can of worms, cause EVERYBODY is saying complety opposite thing in regards to cleaning the bore on a precision rifle.

What I have been doing has seemed to work, but goes against some theories. For one, i have always cleaned from the muzzle end. Thats how we did it in the Corps, so I have just always done it that way. I place the butt on the deck, put some CLP on a bronze brush, run it all the way through and back several times, then patch it clean. I am real careful with the crown and use a one piece steel rod with a crown guide. Why does everybody scream about not cleaning muzzle first? Micromanegement? Possibility of dirtying the action? I always clean that right before a final clean patch down the bore.

Also, as of late, i have tried Gunslick foaming bore cleaner... Any thoughts in this product?

Im most concerned with my R700 if you were curious

If you enjoyed reading about "Rifle bore cleaning controversy" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
willypete
March 6, 2012, 12:47 AM
You're more likely to damage your crown if you clean from the muzzle end. Bolt action rifles are especially easy to clean from the chamber, so there's really no reason not to, training aside. As long as you're careful (using a crown guide sounds like you are), you should be able to avoid muzzle damage.

Your gun, your money, etc. Getting a muzzle re-crowned is neither expensive nor time-consuming. FWIW, I clean a lot of my semi-auto guns from the muzzle, but they aren't "precision" rifles. Minute of squirrel head, at best.

I have no opinion on Gunslick foaming bore cleaners, except that foaming anything looks cool to me. :D

italy4nra
March 6, 2012, 01:44 AM
Have to admit I sometimes clean from the muzzle, but the reason For screaming is:
The crown and last bit of twist are the final element in contact with the bullet and escaping gas, and any irregularity at the tip such as a worn or nicked groove that gives the bullet a little kick or an irregularity at the crown that has an effect on gasses as the bullet clears the crown can cause a well spun stable bullet to wobble.

When the rod comes from the breach, it has the entire length of the barrel to align, and the barrel itself keeps the rod centered and ut of contact with the crown. Hard as you might try, if you have the rod fully in from the breach, and you are using the right length rod and brush, you cannot twist or bend it in a way that scrapes that crown to damage it. Only the soft brass or nylon, well aligned makes that out to crown (stop) and pull back cleaning.

So chances of damaging the final twist coming from the breach is nil, but chance of damaging it from the muzzle is more than nil and aggravated by the rod choice, the angle of entry, the force of entry and other user choices. Make sense?

I do not have a 2600 price rifle. I muzzle it 80% of the time and am careful

nathan
March 6, 2012, 02:49 AM
I started from the muzzle but im glad one gun club member told me to go from the breech. I did that mistake with my Russian SKS but im glad i didnt bugger the crown, it still shoots tight groups.

P-32
March 6, 2012, 04:45 AM
devalier, your theory is flawed. I will not drag a brush or patch back through a bore once it’s made a pass. That is unless I’m cleaning out a large amount of copper with bore paste. The solution to your theory is to unscrew the brush or remove the patch at the end of the bore. Using a good quaility cleaning rod is a must. I wipe down the cleaning rod every couple of times down the bore. I do not dip any brush or patch in my slovent but rather wet the patch or brush before pushing it down the bore. I have also gotten away from any real brushing and let the solvent do it's work. I use bore guides. If I do have to clean a bore because I can't go from the breach, I use a muzzel guide.

Sergeant Sabre
March 6, 2012, 04:56 AM
I was taught the exact opposite in the Marine Corps: Run your rod through the bore from the chamber to the muzzle. Don't run anything through the other way.

Crafty1
March 6, 2012, 05:00 AM
I pull from the breach to the muzzle. Same way the bullet goes.

LTR shooter
March 6, 2012, 05:48 AM
cause EVERYBODY is saying complety opposite thing in regards to cleaning the bore on a precision rifle.


Count me in as one of the EVRYBODYs. If you watch a high power rifle or benchrest match , where rifles can truly be called precision , see how many shooters insert their cleaning rods from the muzzle end.

Bolt action rifles are especially easy to clean from the chamber, so there's really no reason not to

Exactly.

italy4nra
March 6, 2012, 06:10 AM
lol. think we are proving the OP's original point. ;-)

italy4nra
March 6, 2012, 06:11 AM
devalier, your theory is flawed. I will not drag a brush or patch back through a bore once it’s made a pass. That is unless I’m cleaning out a large amount of copper with bore paste. The solution to your theory is to unscrew the brush or remove the patch at the end of the bore. Using a good quaility cleaning rod is a must. I wipe down the cleaning rod every couple of times down the bore. I do not dip any brush or patch in my slovent but rather wet the patch or brush before pushing it down the bore. I have also gotten away from any real brushing and let the solvent do it's work. I use bore guides. If I do have to clean a bore because I can't go from the breach, I use a muzzel guide.
Perhaps my cleaning practice, but not my theory. Surely you are not against the idea that damage to the last rifling at the muzzle will create problems for accuracy compared to damage to the rifling toward the breach?

Orkan
March 6, 2012, 07:45 AM
I don't want damage on either end.

helotaxi
March 6, 2012, 08:06 AM
If it was only the muzzle end that mattered, the throat damage from firing the rile wouldn't matter; however it is exactly that damage that causes a barrel to be "shot out". The big difference is that a nick at the crown will cause the rifle to shoot randomly and more importantly can be repaired rather easily. Damage to the throat is forever.

From the breech or from the muzzle doesn't matter so long as a guide is used and used correctly.

Orkan
March 6, 2012, 09:25 AM
Damage to the throat is forever. not necessarily. Most of the time you can set back and rechamber.

JohnBT
March 6, 2012, 10:14 AM
I'll tell what makes me cringe. It's when I see somebody sawing away with a cleaning rod from the chamber end and on every stroke the brush pops out of the muzzle by six inches or a foot allowing the rod to bounce and rub after the brush clears. Then they yank back on it dragging the rod on the bottom of the bore until the brush aligns and gets forced back in. Back and forth, back and forth. My granny didn't work that hard churning butter on the back porch. :)

John

Sav .250
March 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
I`ve always cleaned from the muzzle end. To eliminate any possible crown problem, i just added a sink hot/cold faucet gasket (the rubber type) to my cleaning rod.
Just slid it up the rod till it bottomed put. Works for me ....that`s all that counts. :)

Mountainman1888
March 6, 2012, 10:26 AM
John, this is my exact reasoning for starting at the muzzle. By positively controlling everything at the crown, and by using a crown guide, there is no chance of bouncing the jag or rod off the crown. Additionally, holding the rifle vertically eliminates the rod from ever touching the rifling (for the most part at least). Unless you were to stop just short of the muzzle when cleaning from the chamber end, gravity would ensure that the rod drops to the rifling when the jag or brush clears the crown. Perhaps this is no problem, all the competition guys seem to go that route

MrDig
March 6, 2012, 11:24 AM
This is more dependent on the action of the rifle than anything for me. Bolt guns and my Marlin Levers, I always clean from the breech. If I'm in the field and I'm cleaning a semi auto, I generally don't field strip it to clean from the breech I just open the action and clean from the muzzle. If I am carrying a bore snake I will lock a semi auto action and clean from the breech. I'm becoming a BIG fan of Bore Snakes for field cleaning because I'm a lazy sob, (in proofing my post I almost edited here to say slob but it works either way doesn't it?) and most of the time they are sufficient for my field cleaning needs.

GoWolfpack
March 6, 2012, 11:48 AM
I suggest as long as you're only cleaning your own guns you clean how you want, when you want and stop looking for validation from some goobers online.

Fiv3r
March 6, 2012, 11:56 AM
I pretty much always clean breach to crown. It saves me from potentially buggering my crown, and insures that I won't accidentally slam the end of my bore brush into the back of the chamber.

I too have really become a fan of bore snakes for light crud cleaning. I certainly think you can over clean your guns and cause damage. I don't get to shoot enough (sadly) to get my guns filthy-filthy that they need a full break down and detail. I keep a .22 caliber bore snake and a 30-30 caliber one in my shooting bag. .223, rim fire rifles, and my 336 just get a quick pass through after I'm done and a lightly oiled patch.

dubbleA
March 6, 2012, 12:07 PM
I suggest as long as you're only cleaning your own guns you clean how you want, when you want and stop looking for validation from some goobers online.


That pretty much sums it up, truer words havent been spoken!

You could also use this for.... what's the best rifle for under $300? is this scope better than that one? and yadda yadda yadda:rolleyes:

MrDig
March 6, 2012, 01:18 PM
I suggest as long as you're only cleaning your own guns you clean how you want, when you want and stop looking for validation from some goobers online.
I'm of the camp that says asking what others do is a way for me to make an informed decision for myself not asking for "validation"
I too had Military training that sent the patch in from the muzzle not from the breech. I do so differently now, but had to break some deeply ingrained training to do so.

Cosmoline
March 6, 2012, 01:25 PM
I'm in the minority on this one. Unless I'm dealing with a pristine bore (which is very rare), I clean from the muzzle end with the barrel in a vise. I fail to see how the crown is going to get damaged if I'm using a rod guide.

Old Time Hunter
March 6, 2012, 02:35 PM
I clean from the breach if the rifle allows, otherwise I use a crown protector.

My son says that when I was in the military, that I had to clean from the muzzle because that is the only way you can on a muzzle loader.

Jibs
March 6, 2012, 03:20 PM
per accuracy systems inc.:

WE WANT OUR BARRELS CLEANED FROM THE BREECH END ONLY WITH A BORE SNAKE BY HOPPE'S™ OR A OTIS TECHNOLOGY, INC. CLEANING SYSTEM SNAKE. PULL SNAKE ONE DIRECTION ONLY AND THAT IS TOWARD THE MUZZLE!!

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/Barrel_Break-In.php

skidooman603
March 6, 2012, 03:53 PM
I find the most important consideration is not breech to muzzle or muzzle to breech but the care with which you do either. I'm in total agreement with the earlier post describing the guy that runs his jointed cleaning rod in and out and in and out dragging all the crap back in that he just pushed out and banging the steel rod around on his way back through. This day in age of modern chemicals I rarely need a brush of any kind. I let science do the work.

Old Dog Man
March 6, 2012, 03:54 PM
This has been going around and around for years, some can be convinced one way or the other. I'll clean mine from the action or breech end towards the muzzle, because I love my guns. And clean them often using a Hawkeye bore scope. To each his own. Al

GoWolfpack
March 6, 2012, 07:31 PM
This has been going around and around for years, some can be convinced one way or the other. I'll clean mine from the action or breech end towards the muzzle, because I love my guns. And clean them often using a Hawkeye bore scope. To each his own. Al
If I clean from muzzle to breech does that mean I don't love my guns? In the future I plan to address this issue by not cleaning guns at all.

JohnBT
March 6, 2012, 08:36 PM
Cleaning from the muzzle end can (maybe, possibly, if you are careless) push a bunch of dirt and #9 into the action/trigger/mag well. It could. It's easier to push the patches out the muzzle and let them fall on the work bench. I'm lazy.

I pulled a brand new bore snake through a barrel once. It was filthy and I didn't want to put it back in the barrel. It didn't seem right. That's just me.

John

Jenrick
March 6, 2012, 08:50 PM
To address the OP's question on foam bore cleaners:

Love 'em.

I didn't start using them until about 6 months ago, and I'm amazed I put up with doing it the hard way all these years. Spray it in, let it sit, patch it out. Repeat once more if you want to be double sure you got everything. You're done. I can usually reload 500-1000 rounds WHILE I clean my rifles now, it's wonderful.

-Jenrick

Orkan
March 6, 2012, 09:23 PM
My take on barrel cleaning:

Ul0feTScsrY

The rifle featured in the video can clean a 1/2" dot drill at 100yds, has been able to do it since it was new, and continues to be able to after me treating it the way described in the video.

Jibs
March 6, 2012, 10:30 PM
is it just me, or does it seem like pulling a clean boresnake through it would be much better than just a patch? Like the accuracy systems barrel maker says, get like 2 or 3 clean boresnakes. I think 1 or 2 for solvent and 1 for oil would be great.pull 2 solvents through, then a snake with oil to finish. Good enough for me. The only 2 rifles I own are a ruger 10/22 and a ruger mini 14. I just got the mini, so time will tell, but my 10/22 has only seen a boresnake and never had a problem with misfires, accuracy, or anything else. It works for me. and its easy. And I dont have to worry about crowns at all.

I am definitely going to try this foam though. Thanks for the tip on that whoever mentioned it.

Jibs
March 6, 2012, 11:54 PM
wow Orkan that is an impressive cleaning routine!

Orkan
March 7, 2012, 10:37 AM
Not sure I'd call it impressive... but thanks. ;)

It's simply a culmination of what I've found works and what doesn't work over the last 10 years of shooting almost every day. 10 years from now, I might have changed it some more.

beebad
March 7, 2012, 01:34 PM
Just wondering here, I use the common gun cleaning kit with a three piece alum. rod. I have cleaned from both ends and I do think it should be better to run the rod from breech to muzzel because you are pushing the crud out of instead of into the gun. The question I have is this, how can the soft alum. rod damage the steel bore? Why would you use a steel rod or any type of rod that would damage the bore if pushed in crooked? I guess you could say I'm not that serious about cleaning, I shove the rod in the end that's closest to me.

Owen
March 7, 2012, 02:09 PM
beebad, the outside of your aluminum rod is coated with aluminum oxide, a very hard, abrasive material.

beebad
March 7, 2012, 02:54 PM
Owen, Thanks for the input, I didn't know that. I,m more of a hunter than a shooter so I don't know all the details.

beebad
March 8, 2012, 11:11 AM
Orkan, I got some free time to watch your vid and found it to be educational for me. Thanks for the effort. I find that it is close to impossible to end a cleaning session with a white patch also. I was glad to see that it's not just me and that it might just be coming from the brush itself. Again thanks for the info.

carbine85
March 9, 2012, 08:21 PM
It's simple: If it's a bolt action you remove the bolt and clean from the chamber. If it's something like a lever action you clean from the muzzle with a patch as a guide for the muzzle.

langenc
March 10, 2012, 12:12 AM
When I cleaned the M1 I cleaned from muzzle. Anyone know of another way??

Longrifle2506
March 10, 2012, 12:47 AM
If you want to continue cleaning from the muzzle end; I would definitely use something softer than steel. That steel rod has a higher chance of damaging the lands of your rifling than any other cleaning rod. I would get a Tipton Carbon Fiber rod; or completely change your cleaning method. The Otis system will let you PULL patches from breech to muzzle. I like Otis Gear; it's good stuff. But what's even better than that; is to remove the bolt, put a bore guide in; and use a carbon fiber rod to push patches through on a pointed jag. I like a nylon brush dipped in shooter's choice solvent if I've fired a lot of rounds. If I've only fired one or two rounds at a coyote; then I just pull a bore snake through. I'd do away with a steel rod even if I was pushing from breech to muzzle. I once used steel, but I read that steel on steel is NOT good when it comes to rod vs. bore; then I discovered the carbon fiber rod; which stays straight all the time even after you try to bend it.

ChCx2744
March 10, 2012, 01:20 AM
Push from the chamber breach to the muzzle end. I was taught that way and most others seem to agree that's the way to do it. I don't really worry about crown damage, as I'm careful. I'm more worried about pushing un-needed crap into the chamber or ramp area.

If you enjoyed reading about "Rifle bore cleaning controversy" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!