hi -- AR Build


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sturpin
March 6, 2012, 09:29 PM
i am thinking about building an ar 15 from del-ton only parts. this is the first time i am doing this and would like to know if any of you have heard anything good or bad about them.

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CmdrSlander
March 6, 2012, 09:35 PM
I don't know much about DEL-TON but Palmetto State Armory is a better value.

sturpin
March 6, 2012, 09:43 PM
Where is palmetto state armory

Robert
March 6, 2012, 09:47 PM
The search function is your friend.
http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=9920396
That was returned using only Del Ton as the search phrase.

That being said they seem to be fairly decent. PSA is located in one of the Carolinas, I forget which one.

FlyinBryan
March 6, 2012, 10:06 PM
I don't know much about DEL-TON but Palmetto State Armory is a better value.

lol,,,,,,,, wait, that was humor right?

(cuz if you dont know much about one how can you say,,,,,,,,,, oh nevermind)

proven
March 6, 2012, 10:29 PM
haha, flyinbryan, you beat me to it.

Ranger30-06
March 6, 2012, 10:31 PM
I have a Del-Ton upper on my AR. It's out of this world and absurdly reliable, as well as being relatively inexpensive.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=156938&d=1326585141

TurtlePhish
March 6, 2012, 10:33 PM
Del-Ton stuff is good, but have fun getting it in less than two months.

NeuseRvrRat
March 6, 2012, 10:34 PM
del-ton is in NC, palmetto state armory is in SC

Ranger30-06
March 6, 2012, 10:51 PM
Del-Ton stuff is good, but have fun getting it in less than two months.
I got my stuff in 4 weeks... Well worth the wait though...

GuysModel94
March 6, 2012, 11:25 PM
Called Del-ton yesterday, they turn their own barrels and they are not taking any orders for about six weeks. This is to prevent a larger back log. Ordered a DPS barrel assembly (american made) for $110.-, minus gas tube and sight pin.

FlyinBryan
March 6, 2012, 11:47 PM
ya but would you guys trust your lives with your del-ton's?

Ranger30-06
March 6, 2012, 11:52 PM
ya but would you guys trust your lives with your del-ton's?
I sure would. But if I'm playing bet-my-life-on-a-gun I'm not taking an AR. I'm taking my Saiga .308.

35 Whelen
March 7, 2012, 12:48 AM
I don't know much about DEL-TON but Palmetto State Armory is a better value.
TWO of you beat me to it!

I hate to let the cat out of the bag, but I've ordered THREE Del-Ton kits from Midway USA and had each of them in about three days.

35W

FlyinBryan
March 7, 2012, 01:35 AM
ya but would you guys trust your lives with your del-ton's?
I sure would.

to be honest,,,,,, so would i if i had thoroughly tested it and time after time it proved 100% reliable.

name on the side of the weapon, or whatever else,,,,,,, is unimportant to me if ive sent 10k downrange with no hiccups. (provided ive properly maintained it of course)

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 7, 2012, 02:00 AM
I was going to build an AR 15 with a Del Ton parts kit but ended up deciding on an AK 74. A guy I know that builds competition AR 15s said that Del Ton makes a good AR 15 for the money and they certainly work.

RatDrall
March 7, 2012, 01:27 PM
PSA offers complete uppers, and total kits (everything but the lower reciever) for similar prices to the Del-Ton, but they offer options for much better parts.

PSA's cold hammer forged barrels are made by FN, out of the same steel that goes into .gov's M249 SAW, and are priced way below anyone else offering cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels. Also, these barrels are high pressure tested, as are PSA's bolts. That is a QC measure rarely seen in the price range.

A 4140 steel 1-9 twist upper from del-ton doesn't begin to compare to a cold hammer forged 1-7 twist upper from PSA.

Summary: Del-ton makes cheap rifles, while PSA makes inexpensive but high-quality rifles. PSA uses far superior materials and has better quality control.

Ranger30-06
March 7, 2012, 02:15 PM
Summary: Del-ton makes cheap rifles, while PSA makes inexpensive but high-quality rifles. PSA uses far superior materials and has better quality control.

That was true a while ago; things aren't always the same, and after Del-Ton got a couple angry emails, they significantly upped their quality control. Far superior materials? It's the same exact materials! It's not like your comparing a Del-ton or PSA to a Noveske or a DD. They both are sub-$700 AR's that offer WAY better quality than Remington, DPMS, or Bushmaster.

Captains1911
March 7, 2012, 02:16 PM
ya but would you guys trust your lives with your del-ton's?
NOPE

dcarch
March 7, 2012, 03:56 PM
Just a side note, but South Carolina is the Palmetto State... so I would certainly hope that PSA is located in South Carolina. Otherwise, I'm gonna be really confused. :D

RatDrall
March 9, 2012, 04:25 PM
It's not like your comparing a Del-ton or PSA to a Noveske or a DD.

Actually, Noveske and PSA get their cold hammer forged barrels from the same place, FN.

So, yeah, it is like you are comparing a Del-Ton to a manufacturer that uses much better parts.

Beak50
March 9, 2012, 08:04 PM
With so many company's making AR type rifles what would most of you guys buy?I have a pure pre-ban Colt H-Bar.Since then there are so many different makers.

helotaxi
March 9, 2012, 08:33 PM
That was true a while ago; things aren't always the same, and after Del-Ton got a couple angry emails, they significantly upped their quality control. Far superior materials? It's the same exact materials!They may have upper their quality control, but they still do not spec HPT barrels and HPT/MPI bolts like PSA does. And the barrels are NOT the same materials and are NOT manufactured the same way. The basic Del-ton kits use a 4140 chromoly steel barrel that is button rifled and is unlined. The similarly priced PSA kit uses a 4150 chromoly steel barrel that is hammer forged and chrome lined. I'm not one that insists on mil-spec for barrels because most people don't need nor will even see the difference between 4140 and 4150 steel and chrome lined vs. non-lined, but if I can get the better one for right at the same money...that's kind of a no brainer.

Of my 8 ARs (all of which I've built either the upper, lower or both myself) only one of them has all parts from one company and that is my PSA 20" HBAR. In fact the only thing on the rifle other than the USGI style leather sling that isn't PSA is the Giessele trigger. The rifle has proven to be reliable to a fault from the very beginning.

RatDrall
March 9, 2012, 09:33 PM
With so many company's making AR type rifles what would most of you guys buy

PSA if pinching pennies, otherwise spend $100-200 more and get something from Bravo Company.

35 Whelen
March 9, 2012, 10:11 PM
They may have upper their quality control, but they still do not spec HPT barrels and HPT/MPI bolts like PSA does. And the barrels are NOT the same materials and are NOT manufactured the same way. The basic Del-ton kits use a 4140 chromoly steel barrel that is button rifled and is unlined. The similarly priced PSA kit uses a 4150 chromoly steel barrel that is hammer forged and chrome lined. I'm not one that insists on mil-spec for barrels because most people don't need nor will even see the difference between 4140 and 4150 steel and chrome lined vs. non-lined, but if I can get the better one for right at the same money...that's kind of a no brainer.



Well, in that case, I'm glad I bought a Del-Ton. IMHO chrome lined barrels are for people who are too lazy to maintain their firearms (i.e.-clean their barrels). And since it's a given that lined barrels aren't as accurate as unlined, I'll stick with the "inferior" unlined barrels.

My Del-Ton Dissipator, untouched, with ordinary Prvi 55 gr. FMJ ammunition grouped like this at 100 yds.:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/AR%20and%20Mini%20Groups/P1010002.jpg

Why would I spend more on something else? At my first High Power match with this rig (first match with an AR, for that matter) I shot a 182-1X offhand with said Prvi ammunition. You'll have a hard time convincing me that Del-Ton is somehow lacking.

35W

jim243
March 9, 2012, 10:35 PM
And since it's a given that lined barrels aren't as accurate as unlined, I'll stick with the "inferior" unlined barrels.

The fact of the matter is that the rifling in unlined barrels is sharper and produces a more accurate twist and bullet flight, national match barrels are always unlined for greater accuracy. They do live a shorter life however.

Two different types of barrels for two different purposes.
Jim

Ranger30-06
March 9, 2012, 10:36 PM
They may have upper their quality control, but they still do not spec HPT barrels and HPT/MPI bolts like PSA does. And the barrels are NOT the same materials and are NOT manufactured the same way. The basic Del-ton kits use a 4140 chromoly steel barrel that is button rifled and is unlined. The similarly priced PSA kit uses a 4150 chromoly steel barrel that is hammer forged and chrome lined. I'm not one that insists on mil-spec for barrels because most people don't need nor will even see the difference between 4140 and 4150 steel and chrome lined vs. non-lined, but if I can get the better one for right at the same money...that's kind of a no brainer.

My upper (post ban 20" A2) is chrome lined. Honestly dude, the only problems that ever surfaced were the incorrectly staked gas keys (they do now) and the chrome lined barrels were an option, which I opted for. You really don't hear stories about barrels getting bent or blown apart because of a slight difference in material. It's not like it's a significantly quality cut method of manufacturing, just a slightly different version of the same thing.


I will concede that PSA barrels are better, but I haven't had a darn problem with my Del-Ton upper, and it is very accurate.

Cesiumsponge
March 9, 2012, 11:34 PM
Chome lined simply equates to less maintenance and a small tradeoff in accuracy. It doesn't necessarily mean folks that pick this are lazy nor are the barrels inaccurate. Noveske's chromed barrels still shoot 1 MOA. That is more than satisfactory for a gas-operated carbine. Using the same frame of mind, one can claim unlined barrels are for weekend range rats who have nothing better to do than scrub their barrels every 20 rounds, all day.

Besides, you're no more obligated to clean an unlined or stainless barrel either. Many Accuracy International or Sako owners send hundreds of rounds downrange without cleaning and hold .5 MOA with boring regularity. They won't clean until groups start to open up.

Tex4426
March 10, 2012, 12:00 AM
del-ton is a pretty good place...i have not personally delt with them but know a few ppl who have and dont have a bad thing to say...u can usually buy one for under 600 at a gun show

Tex4426
March 10, 2012, 12:10 AM
if u want maximum accuracy free floated stainless...if u want a gun that is still pretty accurate but last twice as long then you want chrom lined...

from all the articles ive read you get about 20,000-25000 rounds out of a unlined barrel...accuracy will start to suffer a little at around 5,000 but not much

you get about 30-40000 rounds in an chrome lined barrel...but its not as accurate(very small difference in a good chrome lined barrel)

stainless gives you great accuracy for the longest period of time usually 7-9000 rounds but will drop off in accuracy faster than a non lined/lined barrel usually 12-18000 rounds


all numbers differ from brand to brand and also depends on how well you take care of the barrel

FlyinBryan
March 10, 2012, 03:16 AM
Well, in that case, I'm glad I bought a Del-Ton. IMHO chrome lined barrels are for people who are too lazy to maintain their firearms (i.e.-clean their barrels). And since it's a given that lined barrels aren't as accurate as unlined, I'll stick with the "inferior" unlined barrels.

some chrome lined barrels are quite accurate. i have 2 chrome lined bushmasters that are actually a little more accurate than a pre ban non chrome lined colt model 6700c match target rifle that i bought in the early 90's.

i didnt buy them to be more accurate, but because i just wanted something a little lighter, and was pleasantly surprised by how well they shoot.

maybe i just got lucky, i dont know... are sub m.o.a. chrome lined barrels not the norm?
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/Picture204.jpg
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/Picture203.jpg
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/Picture234.jpg

helotaxi
March 10, 2012, 09:40 AM
My PSA shoots at least that well. I can't really speak for my CL DD barrel since I've never decided to shoot it for groups. The only reason that a CL barrel might give up a little to an unlined barrel is that it is essentially impossible to guarantee a perfectly uniform thickness in the CL. As a result the diameter of the bore might vary ever so slightly over the length of the barrel. This isn't going to create a difference that 99% of the shooters out there are going to be able to appreciate. The CHF process creates a very consistent bore to begin with as well as a very strong and stable barrel. They are better barrels than the standard run-of-the-mill unlined 4140 barrels and the slight variations in the bore (in the 0.000X" range) introduced by the CL process isn't enough to make them shoot worse than the cheap barrels. The CHF barrel is much more consistent barrel to barrel as well.

The LIMFAC most of the time with AR accuracy is the ammo. Use FMJ ammo and any subtle difference between a mil-spec barrel and a stainless match barrel is essentially erased.

35 Whelen
March 10, 2012, 10:27 AM
They may have upper their quality control, but they still do not spec HPT barrels and HPT/MPI bolts like PSA does.

My PSA shoots at least that well. I can't really speak for my CL DD barrel since I've never decided to shoot it for groups. The only reason that a CL barrel might give up a little to an unlined barrel is that it is essentially impossible to guarantee a perfectly uniform thickness in the CL. As a result the diameter of the bore might vary ever so slightly over the length of the barrel. This isn't going to create a difference that 99% of the shooters out there are going to be able to appreciate. The CHF process creates a very consistent bore to begin with as well as a very strong and stable barrel. They are better barrels than the standard run-of-the-mill unlined 4140 barrels and the slight variations in the bore (in the 0.000X" range) introduced by the CL process isn't enough to make them shoot worse than the cheap barrels. The CHF barrel is much more consistent barrel to barrel as well.

The LIMFAC most of the time with AR accuracy is the ammo. Use FMJ ammo and any subtle difference between a mil-spec barrel and a stainless match barrel is essentially erased.



Hey Mod's...CWGASTWHPLMDTASA?


That ^^ is my acronym asking: Can we get a Sticky that would help people like me decipher the AR shooters acronyms? ;)

35W

helotaxi
March 10, 2012, 11:29 AM
LIMFAC is a military, non-gun related, acronym that is short for "limiting factor".

CL- Chrome Lined
HPT-High Pressure Tested
MPI- Magnetic Particle Inspected
CHF- Cold Hammer Forged
DD- Daniel Defense
PSA- Palmetto State Armory

35 Whelen
March 10, 2012, 11:55 AM
Acronym's are fine, but really it helps everyone if they're used something like this, especially in long posts:

"I really enjoy competing in High Power (HP) competition. I have been shooting HP for about one year now. Lately I've been using Sierra Match King (MK) bullets for Across the Course (XC) matches. These bullets coupled with my newly acquired knowledge of natural point of aim (NPA) have helped my scores immensely.
So if you ever decide to try HP, you might want to look at MK bullets for XC competition but be sure you understand NPA before you begin. See how that helps?

AR15 acronyms should be limited to AR forums. This is a general rifle forum.

35W

helotaxi
March 10, 2012, 12:00 PM
I understand the concept, however, most if not all of the acronyms in my posts were defined when first used in this thread so me rehashing them again would be redundant. LIMFAC is fairly common use.

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