.308 Saiga


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xxxleafybugxxx
March 7, 2012, 12:54 AM
If i were to buy one of these, withgoing the entire conversion, are there high cap mags? Also easy to add a pistil grip? or would I need a full conversion for this?

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flyskater
March 7, 2012, 02:14 AM
There is a 20 rounder from Uainta (spelling) and 25 from SGM. You can add a grip without a conversion, but I think doing the conversion is highly recommended and looks better. If you know how to work with a hammer and drill, the conversion is fairly simple.

Rob G
March 7, 2012, 04:00 AM
Saiga rifles are not 922r compliant so if you want to do use a high cap mag then you'd need to replace some parts on it. A "basic conversion" which would involve moving/replacing the trigger group, replacing the stock, and adding a pistol grip would bring you in to compliance and allow for high cap magazines. I haven't done it personally but basic conversions are reputed to be easy enough for most people to do.

6x6pinz
March 7, 2012, 06:54 AM
here you go, make your own adjustments and see what you can do.

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

CSestp
March 7, 2012, 08:13 AM
I fired one of these and totally hated it. I own one in 7.62x39 love it, as well as my 12 gauge. So it isn't the brand or style of rifle. The trigger is the worst trigger I have ever used. No joking the worst I have also owned a bullpup AK, paintball guns, and airsoft. Maybe it was just the one I used but worse trigger ever.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

roadchoad
March 7, 2012, 10:11 AM
CSestP, was it converted or original, i.e. Did it have a rifle stock with the trigger back by the very end of the receiver, or did it have a pistol grip with the trigger just behind the magwell?

xxxleafybugxxx
March 7, 2012, 11:41 AM
Ok.. say I converted it, whats a full conversion kit look like, and how much would I pay? When you do you full conversion, are there any legal issues that need to be abided by?

CSestp
March 7, 2012, 11:49 AM
Don't "know", but under the impression it was original. With pistol grip. Trigger pull was not so much a problem but the pull distance was seemed like 2 feet long. By the time it was pulled all the way back it rested against the bottom of the frame of the rifle, and the very tip of the trigger was resting on the back of the trigger guard.

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Ranger30-06
March 7, 2012, 03:29 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154740&d=1323839912

This is mine, but before I painted the stock. This is the most basic conversion you can get. I put a Tapco G2 trigger in it, and it's incredible. Get a nice sight on these guys and their accuracy is comparable to the M1A family.

Rob G
March 7, 2012, 04:11 PM
Ok.. say I converted it, whats a full conversion kit look like, and how much would I pay?

A full converstion is a buttstock, pistol grip, trigger guard, trigger group, rear sight, upper handguard, lower handguard, lower handguard retainer, muzzle break, and you have to thread the barrel.

What Ranger 30-06 has ^^^^ is a basic conversion.

A basic conversion kit is basically a buttstock, pistol grip, trigger guard, and trigger group (trigger, disconnector, hammer). There are probably a few bolts or rivets involved as well but they should come with the relevant parts. Carolina Shooter's supply carries full kits with everything you need. I think the parts costs are around $150, at least that's what I've always heard.

When you do you full conversion, are there any legal issues that need to be abided by?

Just 922r. As long as you're using American made parts you'll end up removing/replacing enough foreign made parts during the conversion process to keep it compliant with that law.

M1key
March 7, 2012, 04:20 PM
Don't "know", but under the impression it was original. With pistol grip. Trigger pull was not so much a problem but the pull distance was seemed like 2 feet long. By the time it was pulled all the way back it rested against the bottom of the frame of the rifle, and the very tip of the trigger was resting on the back of the trigger guard.

You are descibing a TAPCO conversion. It does not alter the original factory fire control group. It costs about 60 bucks and is considered the "Bubba Conversion".

M

xxxleafybugxxx
March 7, 2012, 05:08 PM
I'm not sold on this (308) or even a saiga to begin with... but, I've been wanting an AR. I wouldn't mind staying in the AK family, and saving a couple hundred dollars. I like the idea of the 5.45 too.

CSestp
March 7, 2012, 05:12 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=154740&d=1323839912

This is mine, but before I painted the stock. This is the most basic conversion you can get. I put a Tapco G2 trigger in it, and it's incredible. Get a nice sight on these guys and their accuracy is comparable to the M1A family.

The one I used was just like this, cept for the trigger.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

xxxleafybugxxx
March 7, 2012, 05:14 PM
Let me clarify. I've thought about NOT getting an AR, and getting another one of these ak's too. But if I were to honest, I'd probably just end up with both eventually

Ranger30-06
March 7, 2012, 05:19 PM
Just keep in mind, the Saiga .308 is the last battle rifle available for under $700, and prices aren't staying low.

Do a conversion, get some good mags, and put a good red dot on it and you have a rifle with the reliability of an AK, the mobility of an AR, and the accuracy and power of an M1A.

xxxleafybugxxx
March 7, 2012, 05:32 PM
If the prices are in fact trending upward, it might lead me to make a purchase sooner than later :D

CnRnut
March 7, 2012, 05:37 PM
I have a converted Saiga 308.
If you want a 5.45,GET IT !!!!
The cost difference will be almost 2 tins of ammo.
Then the cost per round difference.

Go 5.45!!! :O)

Ranger30-06
March 7, 2012, 05:39 PM
If the prices are in fact trending upward, it might lead me to make a purchase sooner than later :D
I paid $400 for mine 2 years ago, and the same thing goes for at least $600 now. Every now and then you find a cheaper one, but they just keep going up in price.

Girodin
March 7, 2012, 08:37 PM
Are you saying the Saiga 308 goes for $600?


Classic has them right now for $500. Midwest hunter's has it for $485. I paid $450 years ago. The prices are cycle up and down with the availability of the latest shipment but over the long run they have not really gone up that much.

Ranger30-06
March 7, 2012, 08:47 PM
Are you saying the Saiga 308 goes for $600?


Classic has them right now for $500. Midwest hunter's has it for $485. I paid $450 years ago. The prices are cycle up and down with the availability of the latest shipment but over the long run they have not really gone up that much.

$500 is a LOT less then they were going for a couple months ago. Your right about the fluctuating price thing... Back in October in 2 gun stores near me they were at $600, on gunbroker they were hovering between $600 for unconverted and upwards of $900 for different converted ones. Don't forget to factor in shipping and FFL fees with those online prices; They will easily add $50 to the price. Converting them also increases the value of the guns, as well as good magazines.

Girodin
March 7, 2012, 10:19 PM
Actually a couple months ago when the newest shipment of the new WPA guns (the one after the etched out receiver guns) I believe classic had them for $450. I expected when I pulled up their website today that they would be $450 However, I also noticed that their other saiga rifles were up from the $300 they were a couple months ago to $349 and some were sold out. They must be getting to the bottom of their supply and thus raising prices.

A while before that, in the interim of the change of importers the prices were a higher. I have to laugh when people panic buy saigas as the last of the latest shipment dries up and the other one is a couple months out.

Don't forget to factor in shipping and FFL fees with those online prices; They will easily add $50 to the price.

For me it is $30 or less from classic. I do realize this varies by FFL and where things are being shipped. Some places on some guns really stick you for shipping. My experience has been that I can often find local guns at or very near (or in the case of impact guns website, well below) the prices of online guns.

Ranger30-06
March 7, 2012, 10:23 PM
You know Girodin, I'm quickly learning over the past few months just how much more everything costs around the Philly area... FFL fees are at least $20 outside of shipping, ammo is expensive, gunpowder is in the $20's per pound, guns are at LEAST $100 over what's online... *sigh* can't wait to get to a free state!

LAK
March 8, 2012, 12:10 AM
Just a general observation RE Prices. Everything is going up; and while you can find a bargain here, a lower price there, everything is going to continue to go up.

In this case a falling dollar (exchange rate), higher fuel (shipping) and demand are going drive up the prices of these Russian guns considerably, and maybe in some steep sudden hops.

Get em now while you can.

xxxleafybugxxx
March 8, 2012, 01:22 AM
What about what this guy did here? Is this legal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FJg8Y1Qb5Y&feature=related
It looks like he didn't do a full conversion. I would like to avoid that if possible. For some reason, the idea of drilling and torquing things on a rifle doesn't appeal to me.. It just doesn't feel right.

Girodin
March 8, 2012, 01:41 AM
Local prices certainly do vary.

What about what this guy did here? Is this legal?

I would avoid the tapco stock/PG that gives you a quasi conversion. It doesn't really offer any of the major benefits of doing a PG conversion. One has the same factory trigger, which, in the case of the S308, is horrible, to put it very mildly. The balance of the gun is still way off as well. The safety is still going to be an absurd distance from your firing hand and the gun is longer than it needs to be. There might be a very slight advantage to having a pistol grip but in general I don't see benefits worth the cost of that stock/grip combo. Functionality aside, IMHO it looks plain terrible to boot.

As for legality a watched 3 seconds of the video but it looked like he had a US hand guard too. Thus he removed the following countable parts:

Stock and hand guard.

He also appeared to have US made mags which would mean if he removes the factory mag he has three more parts: base plate, follower, and body removed.

Now he added the following parts that didn't exist on the rifle before:

Muzzle device and pistol grip.

He also added a new stock and new hand guard.

Thus if we assume all the countable parts he added were US made parts then it would appear when he has US mags in the gun it has 9 foreign countable parts because it started with 14 and five were removed and no new ones were added.

Like I say I only glanced at the gun in question but that is what appeared to be shown.

In sum, one could use the Tapco grip/stock and depending what else is done be 922r compliant. However I wouldn't go that route because I see it as a $70 addition that offers no real practical benefit and looks just terrible.

PS:

It seems that just about everyone on the saiga forums who goes the quasi conversion route ends up changing it out and wishing they had spent the $70 on parts for a real pistol grip conversion that actually improves the rifle.

Ranger30-06
March 8, 2012, 08:43 AM
What about what this guy did here? Is this legal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FJg8Y1Qb5Y&feature=related
It looks like he didn't do a full conversion. I would like to avoid that if possible. For some reason, the idea of drilling and torquing things on a rifle doesn't appeal to me.. It just doesn't feel right.
This is frequently known as the lazy conversion. Girodin pretty much summed it up. It takes an awful trigger and adds an awkward angle to it, and the stock makes the gun WAY too long to be practical. It's all or nothing when doing a conversion.

As a plus though, the S308 is easier than any of the other Saigas to convert, because it doesn't have the 2 rivets in the rearward bottom of the receiver. Converting a S308 is as easy as:

Disassemble the trigger/hammer assembly
Drill out the rivets on the bottom of the trigger plate
Knock out the weld with a screwdriver/hammer (very easy; PM me and I'll give you the details)
Drill the new hole for the trigger guard
Reassemble trigger assembly with new parts
Install pistol grip then stock



The nice thing about the S308 is all the holes in the receiver except for one are already drilled/cut out. You also don't have to do that bullet guide thing up front to get it to work with other mags.

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