Cautiously Optimistic - ATI Sultan 12ga semi-auto


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roadchoad
March 7, 2012, 02:33 PM
Found an Ottoman Sultan semi auto locally for $210, NIB. Not much info out there, but a few bad reviews in the mix. Gunblast did a review, but I've never seen a bad review by them. I have a feeling the guys with issues failed to clean and oil the guns first, or were using light loads. For $210, I'm willing to find out. I pick it up tonight, and I'll have some pics on here later hopefully.

If anything, I should be able to part it out if I can't get it to shoot worth a durn. :D

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marine 97-03
March 7, 2012, 11:28 PM
there's nothing wrong with ATI they import real good stuff there pistols and 1911

marine 97-03
March 8, 2012, 03:43 AM
If u find one online for sale post the link

roadchoad
March 8, 2012, 11:25 AM
I found this one on armslist. It looks really nice. The parts fit nicely, has a good, substantial feel to it, trigger is not bad. I don't like the aluminum retainers for the barrel and forearm, those feel cheaply made. I'm wondering if 9200 parts might fit.

Bore is very bright, barrel has two gas ports. The receiver, trigger assembly and bolt look similar to a Beretta 390 while the gas system is similar to a 391 or Mossberg 9200. I can't really tell by Brownell's schematics, and I don't have the gun in front of me.

I cleaned up the assembly lube a bit, it dry cycles just fine. It has a latch release on the left side, not sure what it's for.

The ejector is part of the barrel, and the hole looks like it was started wrong once, so there is a little divot in front of the ejector pin. I'm going to keep an eye on that.

Reading through the manual, it says use 1.3-1.7oz loads (!) I'm guessing that is why so may people reported FTE and misfeeds.

roadchoad
March 8, 2012, 11:30 AM
Marine, there looks to be a few on GB. This deal was a one-off from a private seller. Other than a tiny scuff from being next to a commonly used gun in the safe, it is new.

marine 97-03
March 10, 2012, 07:20 PM
I don't see any...maybe I'm not holding my mouth right ....y'all got a link to them

roadchoad
March 10, 2012, 11:58 PM
Here's two: http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=sultan

I shot this gun today, and I like it a lot. Very light, so it kicks pretty good, but I was using heavier loads. First 5 rounds were regular sluggers. Offhand, at a plastic coffee can 30yds out, 4 hits with just the front sight post. Glad to see the POA/POI were close. The 5th round hung up on the edge of the chamber, even though the previous round ejected. I think these slugs were just a bit too lean to cycle the action smartly.

Shot 5 Win mag slugs and 5 mag 1oz steel with no problems. Flung those empties out like a dried booger. It likes the hot or heavy loads.

I wasn't expecting much, but tried some Wally world Fed 7.5s 1210fps with the expected stovepipes on 6/10 rounds. I wonder if a lighter spring or removing one gas ring would help.

I didn't have time to shoot much more, as others weren't so hot on the loud noise and recoil of this gun, so we moved on to the rifles.

With the right barrel, I could see this being a killer waterfowl gun, or a great HD gun as is.

marine 97-03
March 11, 2012, 01:43 PM
I watched the GUN BLAST review and man I want one......have you checked the mag tube?

roadchoad
March 11, 2012, 06:21 PM
Checked the mag tube for what?

marine 97-03
March 12, 2012, 12:30 AM
The magazine tube is long enough for more than 4 rounds is it a plug.....or like other imported shotguns where there is a raised tab in the tube

PT92
March 12, 2012, 01:16 AM
there's nothing wrong with ATI they import real good stuff there pistols and 1911

I can at least vouch for that--I have puchased a GSG 1911 from them and they have been great (I had some questions pertaining to the breakdown process as the manual that came with my gun was outdated and consequently wrong and confusing--I cleared it up by youtubeing (is that a recognized verb/word yet:confused:--if not it should be like 'googled') it. I contacted ATI Support to advise them of the error and they were both knowledgeable and courteous. Great Customer Support.

Please give us a review of the shotgun.

-Cheers

roadchoad
March 12, 2012, 12:24 PM
I don't recall seeing an indent in the mag tube during the cleaning/inspection. Honestly though, I've taken it down as far as having the bolt out, but have not removed the trigger group or magazine assembly. I have yet to clean it after it's first outing, but when I do I'll check out the tube with a keen eye.

I'm having trouble finding time to take pics and really get into the internals, but I would be happy to post pics once I get to it.

marine 97-03
March 12, 2012, 12:32 PM
Ok great can't wait to see ....after talking to you and seeing the gun blast review...and knowing its from ATI. I'm really thinking about getting one .....right after a get the 3 other guns that I'm really digging right now......:)

roadchoad
March 12, 2012, 09:58 PM
Okay, I took the thing as far apart as I am comfortable with, but couldn't get the mag tube out. It turned 1/8 turn or so but won't budge. Anyhow, it doesn't look like it can hold 5 in the tube, because the length just isn't there. There is only ~4" left for the mag internals when using 4 2-3/4" shells. I have a pic showing shells lined up next to the mag tube, but my camera and computer are not cooperating.

Additionally, the cap end of the tube has an internal lip to keep the spring, keep and follower in place. This would have to be machined out to increase capacity.

I did notice that the trigger group retaining pin walked out about 1/16" after those 25 shells, so I degreased that area pretty well.

The ejector held up fine, leaving some good sized dings in the heads of the heaviest loads.

PT92
March 12, 2012, 10:12 PM
Okay, I took the thing as far apart as I am comfortable with, but couldn't get the mag tube out. It turned 1/8 turn or so but won't budge. Anyhow, it doesn't look like it can hold 5 in the tube, because the length just isn't there. There is only ~4" left for the mag internals when using 4 2-3/4" shells. I have a pic showing shells lined up next to the mag tube, but my camera and computer are not cooperating.

Additionally, the cap end of the tube has an internal lip to keep the spring, keep and follower in place. This would have to be machined out to increase capacity.

I did notice that the trigger group retaining pin walked out about 1/16" after those 25 shells, so I degreased that area pretty well.

The ejector held up fine, leaving some good sized dings in the heads of the heaviest loads.
Any chance an after-market magazine extension could be made to fit? I know this has been successfully done on some of the Turkish Hatsan shotguns.

-Cheers

roadchoad
March 12, 2012, 10:27 PM
You can see the majority of the parts in the first attached pic. Second pic shows the mag tube next to 5 2 3/4 shells. The fourth is yellow, as that shell won't fit. It has about an inch to go before latching in the mag. Yes that is a twenty, it is the closest different colored shell I had on hand, but is 2 3/4 for comparative purposes.

roadchoad
March 12, 2012, 10:28 PM
Stock attachment point and bolt angle. Anyone know if this is similar to another manufacturer?

roadchoad
March 12, 2012, 10:31 PM
Action and trigger pics. Again, anyone know of similar action components? I'd like a more robust mag cap.

This trigger looks to be a direct sear. Is that what it's called when the hammer latches directly to the trigger?

marine 97-03
March 12, 2012, 10:48 PM
Great looking gun!!

Junkman1967
March 16, 2012, 10:29 PM
I bought one yesterday and it is a great gun. I also have a GSG 1911-22 and love it as well it is a nice shooting well made pistol. The shotgun shoots well but light rem sport loads dont cycle the action very well. Time to move up to big boy rounds. at 25 feet it was putting the wad through the target and the cardboard backing. Its no Benelli but for "social work" it will do just fine. I wish it had a gas adjustment on it so I could get it to shoot light loads, but for $260 Ill never complain.

Junkman1967
March 16, 2012, 10:32 PM
Im going to look into an M4 type collapsible stock kit for mine and maybe a rear sight. I might try and machine a new tube extension Ill post pics when I get around to that.

PT92
March 16, 2012, 10:32 PM
I bought one yesterday and it is a great gun. I also have a GSG 1911-22 and love it as well it is a nice shooting well made pistol. The shotgun shoots well but light rem sport loads dont cycle the action very well. Time to move up to big boy rounds. at 25 feet it was putting the wad through the target and the cardboard backing. Its no Benelli but for "social work" it will do just fine. I wish it had a gas adjustment on it so I could get it to shoot light loads, but for $260 Ill never complain.
I too am very satisfied with my GSG 1911. Where did you get your shotgun?

-Cheers

Junkman1967
March 16, 2012, 10:36 PM
Oh BTW the latch on the side is for the bolt hold open feature

Jaymo
March 16, 2012, 10:48 PM
I bought an ATI HGA FX45 1911GI .45 ACP. It's a Colt Commander clone.
Dark gray Parkerized finish, checkered mahogany grips.
I love it.
It shoots great. The only problem I have with it is that the ejector seems to be soft.
The tip mushroomed after shooting 150 rounds of standard pressure 230 ball.

I emailed ATI almost 2 weeks ago and haven't heard back from them.
Guess I'll have to replace it with an aftermarket ejector or remove the factory ejector and surface harden the tip with Kasenit.

Junkman1967
March 16, 2012, 10:54 PM
I was wondering about their 1911's They look well made. Let me know how you make out with the ejector.

roadchoad
March 26, 2012, 10:46 AM
Okay, so after seeing this post, it is obvious that the sultan is basically a CZ 712 with a slightly different mag tube with two sets of threads and some different action bar parts: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8059562&postcount=3

marine 97-03
March 27, 2012, 03:22 AM
I had an fx gi 1911 ATI and it worked great traded it for a sig......but it was a real good gun

marine 97-03
March 27, 2012, 06:17 AM
Nothing wrong with CZ that's for sure

roadchoad
March 27, 2012, 11:04 AM
So now I'm looking for CZ replacement barrels...I might have to find a local dealer and see what I can get....

It's funny how cheap guns always make one spend more money, isn't it? :rolleyes:

armoredman
April 1, 2012, 02:56 AM
Try the ATI ALS stock, great item to have.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/712/stockfullclose.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/712/stockfullopen.jpg

roadchoad
May 25, 2012, 11:05 AM
Doing more research, it seems the similarities in the 712 and the Sultan are mainly cosmetic. The bolt latch recess on the 712 barrel is towards the back of the barrel extensions, whereas the Sultan has the latch recess towards the front.

The search continues...

elbarto
May 25, 2012, 04:53 PM
New here.

I've been researching this gun a lot the last few days because I have one in jail until tomorrow (in California). I found it used for $240. Has the pistol grip stock. From what I can tell and if it based off the CZ 712, I think the Nordic Components extension tube will fit.

Here's a link if anyone wants to check it out.

http://shop.nordiccomp.com/NC-Shotgun-Extension-Complete-Assemblies-for-12ga-12GA-EXT.htm

This will be my first shotgun so I'm in the same "cautiously optimistic" boat.

If this is truly a CZ 712 copy, there's rumor of a light recoil spring to help with light loads.

Here's another link on info about the CZ 712 that might be helpful.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=104157&st=250&p=1708787&hl=cz%20712&fromsearch=1&#entry1708787

bbbrr04
December 27, 2012, 09:07 PM
i just purchased a sultan ati 12 guage also. would you happen to have an owners manual

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