[Tinker]

A little background:

Not much experience shooting service caliber pistols. Waited until I'm 50 to buy my first....a Glock 23. Mainly bought it for occasional CC and for target plinking. Now that I've shot this thing, I regret not buying one back when I was younger and had the vision of an eagle. Really liking this new pistol :) Now I wear bifocals.

The problem:

I used to shoot competitive archery and thoroughly enjoyed it. Thought it might be fun to get into pistol competition, just for fun. Plus, shooting competition will just sharpen your shooting overall.

I remember from archery shooting that getting into a good practiced form the beginning is very important. Can't afford a teacher, so I've been studying online. (hickok45 and a few others) Most that I've seen adopt a Weaver stance or Isosoles (sp). One common characteristic in all the stances involves the head leaning forward. With bifocals, you have to lean back to see the pistol sights clearly. Lean forward and the target is clear, but the sights are too blurry to line up accuratly. I find that shooting leaned back that I have better consistancy.

Self defense is my main goal, but the shooting practice is really enjoyable regardless of the vision thing. I will be wearing my regular glasses in a self defense event, so I'm trying work things out that way. One company sells a neat little return spring lazer system for Glock. Looks like that would be a perfect solution for my self defense needs, but that booger costs almost as much as I paid for the whole pistol. They sell less expensive rail systems, but I'm trying to keep this G23 as small as possible.

Would like some input from others in a simular boat. Thanks.

[wilbur2]

Focus on the Front Sight. Target will be blurry, rear sight will be blurry, and you will hit what you are aiming at.

From another bifocal wearer...

Dave

[Certaindeaf]

Front sight.

[JRH6856]

You might try ignoring the sights and focusing on the target. After realizing that in a SD situation, I might not have my glasses, I started practicing without them, figuring if I could shoot without them, I could do even better with them. But without my glasses, I can't even see the front sight on my 1911 while a man sized target is still discernible out to 50 ft or so. I can naturally point my finger at the target, and I can point a gun at the target. And at SD ranges, I can group 1-3 inches.

Some people can point shoot, some can't. I think is worth knowing whether you can or not.

[newbuckeye]

I know a LEO that had a special bi-focal cut into the top left corner of his right lens. It improved his shooting a lot!

[kb58]

I'm very new to target shooting and don't understand this advice. I'm near-sighted so I can focus on the front sight perfectly, and indeed, the target is very blurry. If I shot this way I'm all over the target. But, if I focus back and forth between the the front sight and the target, then I'm dang accurate. I just don't get how a blurry blob in the distance is magically hit within an inch of its center when no aiming point is obvious...

Think of it this way. If someone put a gray sheet of paper (no ink on it) out on the target stands and told you to hit the center, you wouldn't do well because there's no precise point to aim at... that's the flaw I see in the "just aim at the blob" approach.

[JRH6856]

It's not magic, it's natural hand-eye coordination. I guess some have it better than others. I can shoot what I can point at, without using sights. that's all.

[browningguy]

A big fiber optic front sight helps also. If you can spring for laser grips they work really well for defensive purposes though.

[mls]

Trust the focus on the front sight and sight picture. Until you completely trust your mind to hold the out of focus target in the correct position in relation to your sight picture, you will not shoot up to your potential.

[psyopspec]

I still have my vision for the most part, but turning front sight focus into a habit took some conscious effort on my part. My shooting improved some once I did. I'd ID the target while the pistol was still in the holster (or from the high ready), then transition to front sight focus as I bring the pistol the rest of the way up.

Also, I second the difference that good sights can make - a hi-viz might be able to help, won't cost nearly as much as a lasermax.

[rdsmith3]

After realizing that in a SD situation, I might not have my glasses, I started practicing without them, figuring if I could shoot without them, I could do even better with them. But without my glasses, I can't even see the front sight on my 1911 while a man sized target is still discernible out to 50 ft or so

In a SD situation, I'm not sure I would want to shoot at a person I could not clearly identify as a threat. Is it an armed bad guy in the house, or is it my drunk neighbor who accidentally entered the wrong house, or is it my teenage son who is trying to sneak in because he was out late?

I wear glasses, too. Before I do anything else, I need to put them on.

[Ankeny]

Think of it this way. If someone put a gray sheet of paper (no ink on it) out on the target stands and told you to hit the center, you wouldn't do well because there's no precise point to aim at... that's the flaw I see in the "just aim at the blob" approach. Depending on your definition of "do well" that statement may not be true for an accomplished shooter. FWIW, out to 10-15 yards and for some beyond, a person can still do very well with a fuzzy front sight if the rest of their shooting platform is rock solid. Frankly, I would rather give up a sharp front sight focus (which I did years ago due to vision) than to lean back, tilt my head, etc.

[Whole Hog]

I'm in a similar situation, I'm 59, have worn glasses for 50 years and bifocals for 20. I've also worn contacts for years and need generic reading glasses when I do. I don't do much plinking with a handgun anymore, but try to shoot 15-20 rounds from one of my carry guns every week or so. Without the bifocals or reading glasses I can't focus on the front sight, but I can see it well enough to concentrate on it. I like big, black sights with lots of light around the front sight, and three white dots, but I can make do with the narrow front sight of my Model 60, or the tiny ones on my LCP. Good luck finding what works for you.

[Tinker]

Bunch of replies....thanks. Looks like a large faction of you lean toward a clear front sight. I will expend a box of ammo on that idea next time I shoot.

I also like the "high left bifocal...special glasses" idea, but if I went that route, that would also be expensive. Probably more than the Lazermax deal.

Also been thinking about some different sights than stock. A tru-glow, but I need to try that before I buy it.

I notice that when I aim the pistol at night (using a flash light to illuminate the target) that the white dots are gone, but the black shape of front and back sights actually is quite aimable. I think this would even be better if the front sight was slightly more narrow. In broad open daylight the white dots on both front and back are blurry with my naked vision. Kind of strange.

[wilbur2]

I spent some time a while back trying to understand why focusing on the front sight works so well. I'm not a mechanical engineer, so this is FWIW...

When we aim a handgun, we are trying to align the barrel to hit the target by controlling its motion. In principle, there are six kinds of barrel motion we need to control:

1) Translation front to back
2) Translation side to side
3) Translation up and down
4) Rocking up and down (pitch)
5) Rocking side to side (yaw)
6) Rotation around the barrel axis (roll)

The translation motions are pretty easy to control - we do that with the Weaver or isosceles stances.

The barrel roll doesn't make any difference (unless you are a gang-banger).

The barrel pitch and yaw motions are much harder to control. Since we have a good hold on the handle of the handgun, the rear sight is essentially anchored, and so these two motions show up as the front sight moving up and down (pitch) and side to side (yaw). By focusing on the front sight, we maximize our efforts toward controlling these motions.

I should also mention that although the target is blurry, it is certainly not impossible to see. My competitive handgun discipline is IPSC/USPSA, and I have found that by focusing on the front sight, I can get reliable A-zone hits out to 25 yards or so, and sometimes even further, even though the target is blurry. Presumably the same ideas apply in self-defense situations.

Dave

[PzGren]

Tinker,

the reason that the head is bent and the shoulders flexed forward is for recoil control and follow up shots. If you lean back, the recoil cannot be caught by as many muscles and the weight of the body.

You will have to live with the eye deficiency that age brings. I am past 50 and have learned to live with it but do not get the same score in accuracy disciplines, like olympic pistol as I used to when I had 170% vision. For IDPA or IPSC pinpoint accuracy does not matter in the same way - but the master status is often decided at the 20 yard line.

[Furncliff]

Tinker,
I know what you mean about that tilting you head back to get focus here's what I did.... went to the eye doc and explained what I was doing, held my hands out in front of me as if holding the gun. He adjusted the grind of the lens so that what I wanted to be in focus was in focus when my head was in a shooting position. It has worked out pretty well, it's not perfect, and probably would only be perfect if I ordered a dedicated pair of shooting glasses. I only own one pair of glasses, perhaps I'll ask for some dedicated shooting glasses for my birthday.

[velocette]

Furncliff and others;
I found a method to help with the age related eye problem.
I purchased reading glasses rated at 1.25 and 1.5. I used them when I
was shooting iron sighted pistols. I found that with them the sights were acceptably clear & sharp and the target was also acceptably clear. This is particularly true when shooting outdoors. Try it, for a small amount of your hard earned retirement cash, you may solve your shooting problem.

Roger

[BCRider]

Tinker, it sounds like you and I may have the same issue with our vision correcting glasses. I need to wear mine to correct some astigmatism that affects my distance clarity. But when I put on the glasses they do not let me see at all clearly at closer distances. Everything out to roughly the distance of my feet is VERY fuzzy. THis makes it impossible for me to shoot at all well with a pistol if wearing my glasses.

Now I'm lucky in that I can see decently enough to shoot without corrective lenses... for now.... But it does mean that while I get a better view of the front sight that the distant targets are more fuzzy for me than for most folks.

Hang on, I'm getting to the point... :D

I'd also tried some red dot options thinking that it would help for my rifle shooting since at the distance to the targets it was hard to even see the PAPER, let alone the bullseye over plain iron sights. I'd always found that the red dots gave me a diagonal red line due to my manner of astigmatism. So I put on my distance glasses and.... VOILA! ! ! ! Suddenly the distant target was sharp and clear AND the red dot was back to being an actual small and clearly defined DOT! ! ! ! This works because the red dot sights use lenses to project the dot image out at infinity. Just where our glasses are set to work the best with the upper part.

Now this is really only an option for range play since you're not going to walk around with a CCW handgun with a red dot switched on 24&7. Although there are some very small red dots out there that MAY be useable for concealed without being too lumpy. But there's still the issue with switching them on unless you can find one which has a remote grip switch that'll turn on as soon as you grab the gun in your usual manner. Like a pressure strip that runs down the back strap or similar.

[brickeyee]

Get a Merit attachment for your shooting glasses.

It is a small adjustable iris that will increase the depth of field enough to put the sites and the target in focus (at some loss in brightness).

Practice with the attachment until you are reasonably proficient at putting shots on target.

Then practice without the attachment, and even without glasses.

Try to focus on the front site.
You will naturally tend to center it in the out of focus rear notch, and the practice with the attachment will help develop the grip and body position to shoot accurately.

The Gunsite 'options' target is very good.
It is a camo covered torso outline with no real aiming points.

COM, Center Of Mass aiming.

No one wears scoring zones.

I have VERY bad vision without glasses or contact lenses, but can shot adequately without them for an emergency.

Like a human sized target in my house that should not be there.

[jeepnik]

I'm pretty much in the same boat with regard to aging eyes. I've put ghost ring rear sights on many handguns which helps a lot. Keeps old eyes from trying to focus on too many planes at once.

Speaking thereof, anyone know of a ghost ring rear for a Glock 30?

[Tinker]

One thing that does work for me is using an older pair of reading glasses (full lense is 1.25 magnification) I can clearly see both sights and even the target area fairly well, but this is not practical for SD because I can't tell the home invader/carjacker/zombie "Hey, let me put on my 1.25's so I can better aquire you as a target." :)

I would wear these for plink practice (and those are mighty tempting), but like I said originally (old archery practice memories) the practice is to reinforce shooting in a practical SD event with the glasses I wear from sun up to sun down.

I am due for a new eye check and prescription. I'll talk with the eye doc about this next eye check. A small 1.25 bifocal facet high/right on the right lense might be the ticket if not too expensive. Wish I could locate an over 50, target pistol shooting eye doc. :)

[BCRider]

Ask around. They are out there. We've got an eye doc up this way that shoots and folks from a hour or more drive go in to get their range glasses from him. I haven't gotten to where I'm that needy yet. But I foresee the day.... And at this age it might be a week come next Tuesday.... :D

[Ankeny]

I have used specialty glasses, etc. on the square range, but the OP stated: I will be wearing my regular glasses in a self defense event, so I'm trying work things out that way. In that case, it is either do the best you can with fuzzy sights, or move to an optic.

[Sauer Grapes]

I settled on pretty clear sights and fairly clear target. I concentrate on sight picture and let the target take care of its self.
I too wish I had started shooting pistol when my peepers were 2020.

[JN01]

Now this is really only an option for range play since you're not going to walk around with a CCW handgun with a red dot switched on 24&7. Although there are some very small red dots out there that MAY be useable for concealed without being too lumpy. But there's still the issue with switching them on unless you can find one which has a remote grip switch that'll turn on as soon as you grab the gun in your usual manner. Like a pressure strip that runs down the back strap or similar.

You can have a CCW gun with a red dot. There are several smiths who will mill the slide on an auto for a quality sight like the Trijicon RMR or Leupold Delta Point. And yes, they can stay turned on 24/7, batteries are good for a couple years, change them out annually just to be safe. Such sights add virtually no weight and little bulk and are a great advantage to those with failing eyesight. As an added precaution, you can also have taller iron sights installed along with them in the unlikely event the optic fails.

[labhound]

I wear bi-focals and do the backward head tilt thing too. That's what I do when target shooting from 10 to 25 yards. At a self defense distance, 7 yards and less I practice point shooting, staying mainly focused on the target and not so much the sights. In a real self defense situation you may not have time to focus on the sights. I do have a laser/light combo on my HD gun that I practice with so at night I can illuminate the room with the light and light up the target with the laser not having to worry so much about the sights.

[Jonah71]

This works for me. I'm 59, blind in my (once dominate) right eye, have glacoma in my left eye, and I wear bifocals. But this doesn't keep me from carrying my G 23. Now I will admit to needing several hundred practice rounds to get to this point. I do best when focusing more on the front sight. Still working on reaquiring target after first 2 rounds. Took awhile getting use to that Glock trigger and learning to keep that 2nd quick shot on target.

[mes228]

Good points listed by others. The Red Dot is the solution you seek. The Trijicon RMR is made to be left on 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 356 days a year. And the batteries last 4 years. Weighs about 1/2 oz. and will withstand 50,000 "G's" of recoil. Accuracy and speed increase many times over. The only down side is the RMR cost ie approx. $700 for the RMR rm07 with the 7 minute angle red dot (which some recommend).

FN makes two Models of .45 pistols that the slide is machined to accept the RMR series of red dots. I have the FN Tactical Model and the RMR, I cannot say enough good about the combo. I own several pistols and have owned a truck load , including custom and semi-custom. Nothing, absolutely nothing, comes even remotely close to the FN/Trijicon combo for any use. With the exception of concealed carry as it is a large pistol like the H&K Tactical. I can carry mine concealed as I had a custom Kydex holster made for it - but it does print. From shooting 16 rounds through the same hole at 15 yards or shooting a rabbit in the head at 25 yards. This combo will do it. And I mean that literally. In my opinion other companies must copy the system or be left in the dust. It's that good.

I also have a Glock 19 with the Lasermax Guide Rod installed (for my wife). I believe it's the only laser that's military approved (NATO). Very durable, simple and relatively accurate. At 25 yards it may be off 2-3 inches. At 10-15 yards my wife, who very seldom shoots, will shoot the bull out of a target. It is a good system. With that being said NOTHING COME CLOSE TO THE TRIJICON RMR.

[Manny]

I've worn glasses due to severe nearsightedness since I was eight. Now in my 50's and needing bifocals or progressive lenses I've conpensated by going to a longer slide with the Glock 34 & my favorite 17L and found that helps a lot in being able to see & focus on the front sight. My next step is trying a set of Advantage Tactical Sights, which got a very good review from Massad Ayoob and has a number of testiminies on it's site from folks with vision problems who were able to use them effectively.

http://www.advantagetactical.com/reviews.htm

I've found them for sale at MidwayUSA for Glock and they're also available for SIG's and other popular pistols. They're supposed to be very easy to install.

[Ankeny]

mes228:

I still plug away with fuzzy irons on my carry guns. However, I have been shooting open division (optical red dot heads up display) for many years in USPSA. As my vision erodes, I am getting closer and closer to going to an optic on a mid-size pistol for carry. As the baby boomers age and their eyes deteriorate, I think optics on their carry guns is the answer. I am just waiting to see what develops as technology improves.

[brickeyee]

The Red Dot is the solution you seek.

Only if you can see that far.

[hariph creek]

You could also try XS Big Dots. I've heard they could help.

[JN01]

Quote:
The Red Dot is the solution you seek.
Only if you can see that far.

If you can't see as far as the rear of the slide, I don't think there are any sights out there that are going to help you.

[Stealth01]

Tinker,
My eyes suck! I have glacoma, astigmatism and I'm near sighted... other than that... what the hey! When I shoot red dot sights, I wear my prescription eye glasses - with astigmatism I get a blurred dot without my prescription. But, when I shoot iron sights, I wear non-prescription Oakley shooting glasses! I can see the front sight very clearly (targets visible but blurry... and that's OK) and have found that I can shoot iron sights MUCH BETTER than wearing prescription glasses... give it a try. Example, that's a 10 shot group with a 3 inch barreled Kimber Raptor @ 7 yards (SD range):

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m512/kengallagher/804cbc53.jpg

[2zulu1]

I'm reaching the point to where even the front sight is blurred and I wear 37" sleeves. While sighting in a new 686P/4", I was still able to cloverleaf 4 shots and credit goes to Smith's red insert on the front sight.

A red dot holographic sight on the top rail of a M327 TRR8 is probably going to happen sometime in the near future. These types of sights have worked very well on ARs and my home defense shotgun.

[Doghandler]

I just hooked myself up with "multifocal rigid gas permeable" contact lenses. I've been wearing regular RGP lenses for years but presbyopia is taking it's tole.

Wow! I can read my watch without reading glasses and my gun sights are clear and crisp again. I feel like a young man!

[Rexster]

I am an LEO, and am seriously considering custom Oakleys with a lens at the top of the left side, that is perfectly set for the distance to my front sight, which is actually, depending upon the length of the weapon, not presently the same as the reading-distance prescription. (I am left-eye dominant.) That being said, I do recommend threat-focused shooting training.

Little things that can help include a wider notch in the rear sight, and a bit of contrasting color in the front sight. Then, there are red-dot sights. Once I recover from a minor financial slump, I want to try an Aimpoint Micro T-1 on a handgun. (I already have one on a Mini-14.) An Aimpoint might be a bit large for a concealed carry gun, but not too large for off-body weapons, and folks are carrying handguns with Trijicon RMR and such sights.

[wrench]

I'm in the same boat with all of you!
I had a special pair of glasses made with a bifocal cut into the top of my right lens, (I'm right eyed), at half my normal reading prescription. Now I can see the front sight sharp, and the target OK.
I still practice some with my normal glasses at self defense distances, but for target shooting or just prolonged shooting sessions, the special glasses really make it more enjoyable.
Now before you say, "Wow, that sounds expensive". Look at these...
http://www.amazon.com/OPTX-20-Stick-Bifocals-1-25/dp/B000W7EDAY

Buy a pair, stick one on the top of your lens in your dominant eye, and away you go.
Thank me later.;)

[tomaz45]

I found a simple fix was to purchase "stick-on magnifiers" that are sold to allow a person to put magnification in regular safety glasses. Most safety supply dealers sell them and they are cheap. I cut the "half moon" in two and attach that pie piece on the upper inside corner of my regular glasses on my dominate side. These attach via surface tension much the same as the oil change stickers that attach to your winshield. You can cut them to any size you need so it doesn't interfer with your normal straight ahead vision but you can shift to it quickly when you aim. Weaver stance, double hand grip, shoulders rolled forward, head level and "BINGO" clear crisp front sight focus. I would also suggest a contrasting color on my front sight. This will allow you to more quickly pick-up the front sight.