12 States on path to NO-permit carry


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Ryanxia
March 7, 2012, 10:16 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-05/drivers-license-gun-permits/53391932/1

Thanks to the NRA-ILA I discovered this article. I would suggest that everyone contact their politicians (find out which ones) and voice your support. We are so much closer to freedom, make your voice heard!

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gunnutery
March 8, 2012, 09:42 AM
Iowa isn't going to happen anytime soon. We're going to have a hard time just to amend our state constitution to guarantee our right to keep and bear arms. It has to be passed by both house and senate two consecutive years, then be put to vote by the people.

I haven't heard much lately, but we went through the "there's going to be shootouts in the streets" talk after the shall issue law passed last year, even in rural Iowa.

galena
March 8, 2012, 11:22 AM
Not going to happen in Colorado any time soon thanks to our Leftist controled state senate and our Leftist governor. The anti-press has even dug up some CCW instructors who are against permit free concealed carry. They are putting their individual ability to make extra money ahead of freedom......sort of like "thirty pieces of silver." Keep shootin' and be careful of who you vote for if you value your firearms freedoms.

JFrame
March 8, 2012, 11:25 AM
C'mon, Virginia!!!


.

bergmen
March 8, 2012, 11:45 AM
When I first saw this I thought 12 states were considering disallowing concealed carry. Now I get it.

Dan

MachIVshooter
March 8, 2012, 11:49 AM
They are putting their individual ability to make extra money ahead of freedom

There's a word for such folks.................





Politician.

alsaqr
March 8, 2012, 01:47 PM
It won't happen anytime soon in OK either. The OK governor and legislature does not want us to open carry without a concealed carry permit.

walker944
March 8, 2012, 01:51 PM
Andrew Arulanandam, policy director for the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action..."Our viewpoint is, a good person will always be a good person," he said. "They don't need a license to be a good person."


If only all our legislators understood such plain, common-sense logic!!

2zulu1
March 8, 2012, 02:23 PM
Home Sweet Arizona! :)

bubba15301
March 8, 2012, 02:55 PM
you can add Pennsylvania to the list

Midwest
March 8, 2012, 03:45 PM
"States that have been or are considering bills in current legislative sessions include Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota and Virgina, according to the NRA"


They already tried to make Kentucky a constitutional carry (no permit needed) and it died in committee. I am not aware of any new effort to bring it up again. Where did they get their information from? It was tried and it failed. I hope they can try again, or at least streamline the Conceal Carry process for my state.

The article is misleading because it gives the impression that there is some current effort going on, when as far as I know...there are no new bills or legislation introduced.

jimmyraythomason
March 8, 2012, 04:21 PM
It won't happen anytime soon in OK either. The OK governor and legislature does not want us to open carry without a concealed carry permit. Well,at least OK. is closer than it was.<http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=5820> "House Bill 2522 would allow any individual who obtains a license to carry a firearm under the Oklahoma Self Defense Act to carry the weapon either openly or concealed."

alsaqr
March 8, 2012, 05:41 PM
Well,at least OK. is closer than it was.<http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=5820> "House Bill 2522 would allow any individual who obtains a license to carry a firearm under the Oklahoma Self Defense Act to carry the weapon either openly or concealed."

Yeah, but thats not what the leadership of the OK legislature and our governor promised us before the last election. If this current earth shaking legislation is passed one can carry openly-but only with a concealed carry permit. What a deal.

buckeye8
March 8, 2012, 05:46 PM
No 'constitutional carry' legislation has ever gained traction here in Ohio, to to my knowledge none currently exists that has a realistic chance of passing.

Misleading thread title. No way are 12 states 'on their way' to no-permit carry, at least not presently.

jimmyraythomason
March 8, 2012, 05:48 PM
What a deal.You can carry openly or concealed with a permit. There are many places in this country that would envy you.

Jeff F
March 8, 2012, 08:01 PM
Most all the CCW instructors I know are against this. I wonder why?

Jim NE
March 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
Reciprocity? How would that work, or is it even an issue?

Ryanxia
March 8, 2012, 08:14 PM
Jeff - I don't think this is related to the national CCW bill, which is what a lot of people are actually against. I believe these states are doing their own separate legislation. I wouldn't worry too much about reciprocity because places like Arizona, Alaska and Vermont(?) already have permit-less carry (which is what I should have titled the thread :) ).

In my state, we have a permit to carry but our reciprocity is a joke, it would be great for us if our bill passed :D

jmr40
March 8, 2012, 08:21 PM
Reciprocity? How would that work, or is it even an issue?

In the article it noted that Wyoming still issued permits to those who might want to have a legal permit in another state. Even though they are not required there.

JWF III
March 8, 2012, 08:31 PM
I don't think it'll happen in GA yet, but hopefully GCO will stay on them about it.

Concerning reciprocity, the way I understand how it'd be here, we'd only have it with other states that were permitless carry. However, there would still be a permit available to keep from having to get NICS checks, and it would retain the current reciprocity (pending other states of course).

Wyman

ETA-Well, the wife got me sidetracked for a few minutes and jmr beat me to it.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 8, 2012, 08:33 PM
Jim, the states that are trying to get this would still offer CCW licenses to cover the reciprocity of other states.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 8, 2012, 10:08 PM
Here in New Hampshire, we are on our fourth attempt and this one looks like a winner. Finally the two major gun groups agree on the bill as it left the house which was holding it up before.

AK_Maine_iac
March 8, 2012, 10:23 PM
Most all the CCW instructors I know are against this. I wonder why?

:eek: can you say "lost money"
__________________

MachIVshooter
March 8, 2012, 11:24 PM
Most all the CCW instructors I know are against this. I wonder why?

can you say "lost money"

Exactly.

Though some people will still seek the training, making it no longer requisite will turn the instructors' very lucrative careers into part-time gigs.

As Galena said, they're more concerned with lining thier pockets than freedom for the rest of us. And as I said, there's a profession that thrives on this behavior...........

loganb
March 8, 2012, 11:34 PM
As previously stated, it won't be happening in Iowa soon, having a hard enough time getting Castle Doctrine through

K-Rod
March 9, 2012, 12:38 AM
I heard that Idaho was trying for Constitutional Carry last year but it got put on the back burner. We already have open carry, concealed with permit & concealed without permit outside city limits.

CCW instructors here charge up to $300 per person for the class. Its required here in order to get your permit. Although, what most people here don't know is Hunters Education qualifies. If you live in Idaho & want to get your CCW, take Hunters Education. Its only $8 & then take your card to the sheriff's office & apply for your permit.

ATBackPackin
March 9, 2012, 01:02 AM
The only way this could happen in PA, is if Philly became part of NJ. :cuss:

Owen Sparks
March 9, 2012, 01:44 AM
Wonder what the Constitution has to say about people going about armed?

ms6852
March 9, 2012, 04:15 AM
Won't happen in Texas soon either. But I know we were trying to pass the express lane for capital punishment. Lost sight of this...does not matter. I love the fact killers will be killed in Texas.

AK_Maine_iac
March 9, 2012, 05:13 AM
The thing that really stinks about the new law here. It went into law two months after i took the $$$.$$ plus class. I don't think my check had even cleared at the bank when the law went into effect.:banghead:

Midwest
March 9, 2012, 09:16 AM
Of those 12 states, I cannot realistically think that any are truly close.

New Hampshire and South Dakota seem possible sometime in the next 5 years. The other states all have large "issues" dragging them down.


Kentucky is rule constricted.



Kentucky has had laws against conceal carry since February 3, 1813 and actually the first state to restrict conceal carry. It might be the first state to have any gun laws at all. Despite being a pro gun state, I think it will take a lot of effort in order to go constitutional carry here.

http://concealedguns.procon.org/sourcefiles/concealedhistory.pdf

grampster
March 9, 2012, 09:53 AM
For your thoughtful rumination:

Isn't it viable to consider that sometimes we need to weigh personal freedom against the general want for an orderly and civilized society? We are, after all, supposed to be a nation of laws, not men.

Communities have zoning ordinances for the purpose of peace in our neighborhoods. We accept that taking other people's property is criminal. We are not supposed to intrude on other people with noise, or assaults. Education of our posterity is worthwhile enough to have laws about it. (even tho it's a bit messy at the moment)
I could go on as you all are aware of the efficacy of a peaceful society.

Why not a state Shall Issue Law that requires one to show that they have had a modicum of firearm training. (in part, that is what "well regulated" really meant, that you knew which end of the firearm the projectile exited) You need to not be mentally ill or a violent felon or have a recent track record of being drug or alcohol addled. In other words, a reasonable background check. Yes, I know some would fall through the cracks. But no law or regulation is foolproof. At that point, at, say, the county or parish level, you are issued a permanent concealed carry permit by a citizen control board who then not only destroys all of the information that was used to issue the permit, but is required to prove it has been destroyed, under pain of criminal prosecution

Just fodder for argument, fellow campers.:scrutiny:

Isaac-1
March 9, 2012, 11:21 AM
Not going to happen in Louisiana, they like the idea of getting all that extra tax money for CCW permits, in fact here it cost $125 every 5 years, plus an extra $50 for anyone that has not continuously lived in the state for 15 years. (50% discount if over 65), there is also the cost of the CCW classes which typically start at $75-$100, 8 hour class every 5 years, which I suspect the state gets a bit of as well one way or another.

mdauben
March 9, 2012, 11:25 AM
At that point, at, say, the county or parish level, you are issued a permanent concealed carry permit by a citizen control board who then not only destroys all of the information that was used to issue the permit, but is required to prove it has been destroyed, under pain of criminal prosecution
I see absolutly no point in inserting yet another layer of buearacracy like this into the process. Once you pass the background check, they should just hand you your card and wish you a good day.

grampster
March 9, 2012, 04:42 PM
"I see absolutly no point in inserting yet another layer of buearacracy like this into the process. Once you pass the background check, they should just hand you your card and wish you a good day."

Ahh, but what happens to the info? I'm suggesting a volunteer citizen board that changes its membership often who destroys the info under pain of criminal charges if not done. All volunteer gov't boards are not without some merit.

mac66
March 10, 2012, 04:48 PM
I think it will eventually come to Michigan. It is going take few steps to get there, but I think we will have it inside of 20 years or so.

First step is cut through more of the red tape. We have already eliminated the safety inspection certificate. Next we need to get the process out of the hands of the counties and give it to the Secretary of State (SOS) (that's the DMV in other states). There is no reason concealed pistol licenses can't be just an endorsement on one's driver's license or state ID card. Once it becomes a simple thing, it makes it easier to eliminate it altogether.

And FYI, I am completely for no permit carry period. I shouldn't have to ask or get permission to exercise my constitutional guaranteed civil rights.

EddieNFL
March 10, 2012, 05:01 PM
We are, after all, supposed to be a nation of laws, not men.

Which state law (legally) trumps the US Constitution?

Wes B
March 10, 2012, 05:05 PM
In South Dakota, after the first kerfuffle in the house the bill passed the second time, and it passed in the senate last week. Now waiting on the Govenor to sign the bill.

Jeff F
March 10, 2012, 06:12 PM
Jeff - I don't think this is related to the national CCW bill, which is what a lot of people are actually against. I believe these states are doing their own separate legislation. I wouldn't worry too much about reciprocity because places like Arizona, Alaska and Vermont(?) already have permit-less carry (which is what I should have titled the thread :) ).

In my state, we have a permit to carry but our reciprocity is a joke, it would be great for us if our bill passed :D
No thats not what I was talking about. I know quite a few CCW instructors around here. Nevada is a shall issue state and right now a lot of citizens are getting their CCW permits and business is booming. In the CCW classes they teach only enough to qualify you to get your permit and they urge the students to get advanced training. Permit-less carry would put a lot of these instructors out of work and a lot more untrained people on the street with weapons.

Buck Kramer
March 10, 2012, 06:21 PM
Your right about Iowa sheriffs, idk how they get that much pull around here but they are basically county mayor in Iowa.

Bohemus
March 10, 2012, 06:31 PM
Good luck!

I bet, we wont see this in Europe anytime soon...:-/

JFrame
March 10, 2012, 06:37 PM
Virginia.NOVA is NYC south. Hard to overcome Fairfax,Arlington,Norfolk,thats enough.

Yeah -- I think of Fairfax, Arlington, and Alexandria as "Greater D.C.", but your point is well taken.

But I will continue to hope...


.

TexasBill
March 11, 2012, 07:50 AM
Won't happen in Texas soon either. But I know we were trying to pass the express lane for capital punishment. Lost sight of this...does not matter. I love the fact killers will be killed in Texas.

If we don't have the express lane already, we sure do have the quick check.

Before we get anywhere with relaxing the laws pertaining to permits and open carry, we're going to have to change at least the governor for that to happen. Perry's on record as saying he will veto legislation allowing open carry without a permit. Texas hasn't allowed open carry of a handgun since 1872.

I was on the fence about proof of training until I realized that Vermont has gotten along just fine without any training requirement for a lot of years and Alaska and Arizona haven't turned into wild shooting alleys since they relaxed their laws.

As far as how well constitutional or permit-less carry will do in a given state, a lot is going to depend on visible public support and lobbying. If everyone sits on the sidelines and hopes the NRA will carry the torch, it may be a real long time before change will come. In Texas, we have the problem at the TSRA is, at best, lukewarm on the subject.

Pilot
March 12, 2012, 09:14 AM
The only way this could happen in PA, is if Philly became part of NJ.


PA would be a lot better state if Philly became part of NJ, and Pittsburgh part of OH, especially for gun rights. While it is not bad now, PA is shall issue as you know, it could improve.

Ryanxia
March 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
And Chicago should become its own state as well and leave the rest of Illinois alone (same with NYC :) )

StrutStopper
March 12, 2012, 01:26 PM
I'm glad RI is on the list. I am currently dealing with a "new" restrictive application process that my town's Chief of Police put in place. The problem is, they put the new illegal process out while my original application was pending and they didn't even bother to look at my application. I've been busy lately but I need to follow up on a letter I wrote to the town council about it.

chute2thrill
March 13, 2012, 01:32 AM
Hunters safety course.. Here in Iowa its only $1, lasts a week. Thats more than enough. $300 for a CCW course? Well that'd be enough turn me away too!

Ryanxia
March 13, 2012, 04:13 PM
I got a steal of a deal for my CCW course at $50 for the 8 hour class. Most places charge up to and sometimes over $100. Nothing I didn't already know.

Midwest
March 13, 2012, 04:19 PM
I got a steal of a deal for my CCW course at $50 for the 8 hour class. Most places charge up to and sometimes over $100. Nothing I didn't already know.

Here in Kentucky they charge $80 for the mandatory course. (You pass the course, wait 2 weeks, get a certificate, take certificate to the sheriff, then fill out the CCDW application, pay another fee $60 and then wait up to eight weeks).

$140

ryan3465
March 14, 2012, 12:49 AM
I haven't heard a thing about this up here in Maine; it'd be nice to not have to shell out the $25 to renew my permit, that'll get me another box of bullets to feed my reloading habit that I seem to have acquired.

Wes B
March 17, 2012, 09:10 AM
Governor Daugaard vetoed the bill and it goes back to the state senate on Monday, slight chance they might overide the veto, it passed 3 votes shy of the needed 2/3.

callenlee
March 18, 2012, 01:36 AM
Tennessee permit is $115. I've seen classes range from free (one of the local police departments offers a free class...I'd imagine there is probably a nice wait list) to $60.

I don't carry mainly because I'm either at work where firearms are prohibited by law, or at home. I don't have a problem so much with the permit itself or with the class. My objection is the $115 for the permit. I'd understand if the fee was 1/3 or even 1/2 of that figure, but 115 is a bit exhorbitant I think. If the cost was lower I would get a permit and carry where legal just in case.

Owen
March 19, 2012, 09:47 AM
Maine is effete? Its all lumberjacks and fishermen. effete? really?

The War Wagon
March 19, 2012, 10:10 AM
I'll be happier when ALL 57 states are on that path... :rolleyes:

Ryanxia
March 19, 2012, 02:19 PM
Last I checked owen I'm neither a lumberjack or fisherman (professional anyway :) ) hope I cleared that up for ya.

CZguy
March 19, 2012, 05:15 PM
I guess no one else remembers the Monte Python lumber jack song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg

gym
March 20, 2012, 12:55 PM
Fl will never give up the revenue, they send out your vechicle regitration renewal 3 months months early, and your corporate renewal 6 months early, it's due in May,I got mine in Decemberor January. Really strapped for cash.
Unless they can figure a way to charge you for not having a license,lol

HoosierQ
March 20, 2012, 05:55 PM
Are we sure we actually want this to happen? At the state level I mean?

We're seem to be getting closer and closer to universal reciprocity. Right now with an Indiana permit, I can carry all the way South to the gulf states and all the way west (once I figure out how to get around Illinois) to the great basin with a few islands of non-reciprocation here and there.

I'd rather see 1) every state in the union go "shall issue" and 2) every state then go with reciprocity. If I lived in one of those states that gave up permits I think I'd loose the ability to carry outside of my state.

I certainly agree with the sentiment that "the 2nd Amendment is my carry permit". However the law is the law and that is not yet the legal reality.

I am sure I am in the minority here but lets play the politics of statistics for a moment. The continued issuance also creates a nice statistic for us...the extremely low rate of crime among "the permitted". Again, not the ideal situation...needing a statistic to support what's right...but it is a political fact that people and lawmakers react to statistics.

Black Duck Charlie
March 21, 2012, 03:02 AM
Owen Sparks; Wonder what the Constitution has to say about people going about armed?

Let's see.... We all know about the 2nd Amendment, so I'll skip that.

Section 8 of the Constitution deals with the Powers which are granted to Congress: To enact taxes; to regulate commerce, both with Foreign Nations and between individual States; to provide for the arming, training, etc of the Militia; etc; etc. Can't find where it says people are allowed to go armed any time they want. Can't find anything which bars the States from passing laws on who is allowed to go about armed, either.

The States. Well, the Powers granted to the individual States start with Article 4, Section 1 -- and Section 2 says "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States" -- but there is nothing there that says people are allowed to go armed any time they want, nor (again) anything saying States are not allowed to pass laws keeping certain people from going about armed.

Amendments 9 and 10. Here we go, the first two Amendments that are usually quoted as giving individual people and States the right to what they want, when they want. Yet all these two Amendments say is that "certain rights" are still retained by "the People" and "the States". They do not say that individuals and/or states are allowed to do what they want, when they want. Still nothing concerning being allowed to go armed whenever/wherever they want.

The 14th Amendment. Again, a favorite of those espousing "States' Rights". It doesn't really say what many of them claim, though -- and still nothing saying that people are allowed to go armed in public. Of course, nothing saying that States cannot pass gun-control laws, either. It does however, require that "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

In the entire Constitution, with the obvious exception of the 2nd Amendment, I can find nothing which actually allows people to go about armed. On the other hand, I also find nothing which says that individual States are not allowed to pass laws designed to control who IS allowed to go about armed.

Whether the 2nd Amendment allows individual States the "right" to pass and enact laws designed to keep certain people from going about armed, simply because it does not [I]expressly forbid[I] them from doing so (see Amendment 10), is another debate.

Black Duck Charlie
March 21, 2012, 03:17 AM
Of course, when everyone is allowed to go about armed, then even those who are mentally unbalanced and ready to "snap" at the slightest provocation are going to go about armed. You all know the type: Paranoid, "knowing" that their neighbor/co-worker(s)/etc are just waiting for an opportunity to kill them. Then there is another kind: The average habitual criminal (no, not "hardened criminal" - just "habitual")....

Does anyone here really believe that not requiring some kind of permit to go about armed is a good idea? And, yes, I know that anyone who is determined enough to get a gun illegally will always find a way to get a gun, so don't bother. There are probably ten times as many people who would "go postal" if they had legal access to a gun who do not get an illegal gun as there are people who do, and we just do not hear about it.

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 21, 2012, 05:07 AM
Black Duck Charlie, could you please tell me what part of "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is in ANY way UNCLEAR? This is the problem we face. People are trying to get around the SIMPLEST worded amendment in the constitution. There is NO other way to define it. NO state has the authority to countermand it. They get around breaking the law by trying to say retarded crap as you just spouted off. Shall not be infringed PERIOD. It's not followed by any other BS such as "valid only in Arizona, Vermont, Alaska".

It's just plain stupid that our Government can't admit that the states with the absolute HIGHEST crime rates are the same ones that are so restrictive on firearms. Just look at this one I live in. Kids killing each other on almost a daily basis! Anyone think they got those firearms legally? The only ones these firearms laws you seem to like Charlie are hurting is LAW ABIDING CITIZENS!

forestdavegump
March 21, 2012, 05:12 AM
Awesome!!!!! I always felt if you can't be trusted with a gun maybe you should not be breathing air.........but read my signature I wear a scarlet G as I am a gun criminal?

forestdavegump
March 21, 2012, 06:30 AM
We aim to please....Can't sit here watching the criminals outside 7-11 and do nothing? Got to go with the flow and make all happy! No gun permits=open carry for all and it is Black Duck Season....How Fowl....It is utopia!

wickedsprint
March 21, 2012, 07:50 AM
Are we sure we actually want this to happen? At the state level I mean?

I'd rather see 1) every state in the union go "shall issue" and 2) every state then go with reciprocity. If I lived in one of those states that gave up permits I think I'd loose the ability to carry outside of my state.


Some states that don't require a permit still have the permit process in place, not sure if intentional though. Wyoming was one.

Midwest
March 21, 2012, 08:24 AM
It is amazing that a piece of cloth costs $140, an 8 hour course with videos, written tests and live fire and then a 8 to 10 week wait and the cops doing a monthly back ground check*...and another $60 every five years all because of a piece of cloth....

A piece of cloth is the difference between concealed carry and open carry. In Kentucky, open carry is allowed without a permit. It is possible to protect oneself here without a permit, without 'training', without spending $140 ,without waiting two months, without having the cops doing a behind the scenes monthly background check*, when a person decides to open carry here...

But as soon that pistol is covered by a cloth....it is a whole different world. That piece of cloth suddenly makes that pistol more dangerous and requires training, fees and long waits...


* Kentucky runs NICS every month on all permit holders, not everyone here knows this. But that is the reason for Kentucky coming in #1 in states for background checks. Now you know.... the rest of the story.....

gym
March 21, 2012, 02:29 PM
I can't imagine what a carry goes for in NYC. When I left it was over $300 and that was 17 years ago, must be close to a grand now.
So if we get to the stage where there are no licenses, will we still need FFL's to sell guns. Their main reason seems to be to make sure you can legally own one, so if anyone can walk in and buy one, then why would you need an FFL?
Obviouslly there would be no check run if you didn't need a license. You could just buy a gun and walk out ith it.Maybe on class 3 atuff they would still run a check, but otherwiseI guess a drivers license or any form of ID, or no form of ID.How would that work?
If you ask the guy to fill out a form, the form gets destroyed in 2 days, so anyone can just walk in and get a gun, he could have a case pending or an old one that dosen't come up right away, "before computers", so how would that be resolved, anything goes?
Two guys I know for 30 plus years had incidents where the have permits now, but one was turned down on his 3d renewal, because a case of pot smoking when he was 16 that was supposed to me dismissed and destroyed, never was, they issued him a ccw here in FL, then on the 3d renewal found his record from 40 years ago. Cost him a grand to have his lawyer get it resolved.
The other embarrased me, I took an employee up to my friend at police plaza, and the officer came back screaming his head off, at me, thinking I embarrassed him, the guy had a case where the charges were dropped, but again the court screwed up. He got his permit but it cost him time and money to get it fixed.
So who is going to do all this rediculous work if no license is required?
Apparantlly no one checks this stuff unless it's a fluke.
I read someware that they take you at your word for what you put on the 4473 form unless you have an incident. Then they fact check, or they used to, this was 20 years ago. Obviouslly they would have to have an army of people to check everyone who applies for a license or buys a gun. And pre computer days, someone would have to enter all those old cases into the system or they wouldn't show up, kind of makes sense when you see how everything else gets fouled up.

2000Yards
March 21, 2012, 10:39 PM
In 74 posts, by my count, only two people suggested that a permitting process for carrying a gun in public might be a good idea. An expansive interpretation of the 2nd amendment would allow ownership and carry of guns by people on their way to committing crimes, who have just committed a crime, who are repeat and violent offenders. It should allow carry in every place the public is permitted to go - could be a courthouse, could be the White House, an air plane, private propert, etc. COTUS makes no mention of any limiting factors - shall not be infringed applies logically to children, mentally handicapped, and the legally blind. Anyone, anywhere, anytime. No limits.

So is my understanding of "shall not be infringed" right? Did I miss anything? While we're at it, let's fix what's been done to the first amendment - "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech" because, hey, if I want to scream "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater, COTUS guarantees my right to do so. :rolleyes:

If you want to buy a car and drive all over your own property, go for it. If you want to operate that machine in public, we all have an interest in making sure you are competent to do it. Ensuring, if someone is going to carry (and potentially use) a gun in public, that they know how to operate it, have some level of proficiency with handling, etc. - I simply can't see as a bad idea.

I understand the slippery slope argument, and there are may issue states that are effectively no-issue, but those are separate problems. Because someone is abusing the system in some way, that doesn't mean the right solution is to throw out the system all together.

2KYDS

Swing
March 21, 2012, 11:43 PM
Very interesting and encouraging development. There was a point in many of our lifetimes were carry wasn't an option, period.

forestdavegump
March 22, 2012, 12:22 AM
We can open carry in alot of places in the US. It just freaks out some that don't know the laws. I open carry when I am not driving as I usually don't have my wallet or state ID on me...which is legal here too. When I drive it is just easier to carry concealed as I have my wallet and all that paper work.
But as for my signature you can see that I have been labelled a criminal, by some one out side of my state for doing so.....I don't advocate law breaking, but it is up to the individual.
Natural law would dictate, what is necessary is legal. I would advise that you check your local laws, by READING, the state laws, county laws, and city laws, crazy at it may seem a lot of the cops don't know them! Exercising and standing up for your rights is how to keep them. I would love to see the day in the USA that all good people could carry their guns for all to see, and crime would go down?;)

Swing
March 22, 2012, 12:26 AM
We can open carry in alot of places in the US. It just freaks out some that don't know the laws.

I've lived all over the place. Some areas if you open carry the police will be swarming the place. Others, you see it all over town and no one so much as bats an eye. There were points in between too. ;)

elrowe
April 11, 2012, 04:57 PM
Maine is effete? Its all lumberjacks and fishermen. effete? really?
And who'd pull a gun on a guy that can throw his axe at you?

mljdeckard
April 12, 2012, 10:04 AM
They didn't mention Utah. We are working on it, our current gov has cold feet. We are looking for a way to leverage or veto-proof it in next year.

effengee
April 12, 2012, 12:29 PM
Permits? we don' need no steenking permits hahaha

I don't like the idea that I would have to pay to "qualify" to exercise my second amendment right.

I actually carry concealed because it keeps people from freaking out and keeps me from being banned at stores run by idiots who don't understand what the right to keep and bear arms means...

I am Vermont strong, I own guns, and I vote! I also have kids who will pass on to their kids what it means to be a gun owner.

Black Duck Charlie
June 26, 2012, 04:02 AM
"The anti-press has even dug up some CCW instructors who are against permit free concealed carry. They are putting their individual ability to make extra money ahead of freedom....."

Uh, isn't that what Capitalism is all about, making as much money as you can? Damn, what a liberal ideaology, thinking that someone should NOT make a ton of money just so you can be happy. It might even socialist!

Black Duck Charlie
June 26, 2012, 04:09 AM
A question: Is it better to allow EVERYONE the unfettered right to carry a gun -- or to allow only those who are not felons and/or psychopaths the unfettered right to carry guns?
Seems to me the "Constitutional Carry" people would allow EVERYONE to carry a gun whether they are dangerous criminals or not -- simply because it's "Constitutional".

JSpear
June 26, 2012, 03:38 PM
People who are felons or not right don't care about the law anyhow, so it would make no difference. Constitutional carry would just make it easier for us honest lawabiding folks

Sam1911
June 26, 2012, 03:50 PM
Seems to me the "Constitutional Carry" people would allow EVERYONE to carry a gun whether they are dangerous criminals or not -- simply because it's "Constitutional".

The idea is that if you are lawfully able to own a firearm you should be lawfully able to have it with you wherever you might be.

If you have been Constitutionally deprived of the right to own a firearm, through proper due process of law, then this is a bit of a moot point. Not sure why this notion would bother you.

"The anti-press has even dug up some CCW instructors who are against permit free concealed carry. They are putting their individual ability to make extra money ahead of freedom....."
Uh, isn't that what Capitalism is all about, making as much money as you can? Damn, what a liberal ideaology, thinking that someone should NOT make a ton of money just so you can be happy. It might even socialist!
Does Capitalism require people to do self-defeating, anti-freedom, blindedly selfish things? Probably not.

It also does not require that I approve of, or agree not to oppose whatever ignorant, short-sighted, and knuckle-dragging stupid schemes someone might come up with just because they think it will make them a buck.

A person can do almost anything in the name of making a dollar. Just because their action may be legal and may indeed turn a profit does not make that action ethical or right, nor worthy of support. Capitalism is not a GOOD excuse for being a jackass.

Deltaboy
June 26, 2012, 03:52 PM
This is good news.

gym
June 26, 2012, 06:59 PM
Upon moving to FL my NY carry was sufficient to obtain my FL permit, which came from an NRA hunter saftey course some 43 years ago. When my employees had an instructor come to the shop and give us the course so we could get our hunting licenses.I still reember we were into bird hunting then, shotgun/rifle. That was the best 5 bucks I ever spent.Still have the card.
I am trying to figure out if they asked for that when I recieved my NYC carry, they must have.Funny that even with a carry you still needed a rifle/shotgun license.That one also listed the rifles and shotguns on it. And you got to pay every few years for 2 different licenses. But the NYC carry was some rediculous, fee. like $500 every 5 years, By now it's got to be more than I remember.Then you held your breath.

Happy Prospector
June 26, 2012, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the link Ryanxia, it would be nice if it were more states.

bushmaster1313
June 27, 2012, 02:06 AM
12 States on path to NO-permit carry


Being from New Jersey, when I saw the title I thought it was a post about states going to no permits will be issued.

OARNGESI
June 27, 2012, 02:13 AM
Being from New Jersey, when I saw the title I thought it was a post about states going to no permits will be issued.

being from az i thought the same thing

YankeeFlyr
June 27, 2012, 02:48 AM
Sure are a lot of people worried about carry permits!

Me thinks if you need to carry you will do so; a whole lot of folks don't really need to but just like the idea of it.

Have fun! :scrutiny:

mljdeckard
June 27, 2012, 02:41 PM
I agree. I think that here in Utah, there would be very little long-term difference in numbers of people who carry. Those who are serious about it have been doing to for years anyway.

I think Utah is waiting to get a second shot at clarifying the law that redifines disturbing the peace to not include the lawful carry of a firearm, and THEN we will tackile dropping permits again.

King_John_I
June 27, 2012, 03:04 PM
I like open carry but it has it ups and downs like anything

Ryanxia
June 27, 2012, 05:26 PM
Ya I should have titled this 12 states to permit-less carry but oh well.
I doubt anything is going to come of it but any updates appreciated.

Weevil
June 28, 2012, 01:04 AM
Not going to happen in Colorado any time soon thanks to our Leftist controled state senate and our Leftist governor. The anti-press has even dug up some CCW instructors who are against permit free concealed carry. They are putting their individual ability to make extra money ahead of freedom......sort of like "thirty pieces of silver." Keep shootin' and be careful of who you vote for if you value your firearms freedoms.


^^^^
This!


It's always possible, however remote, that you might drum up enough votes in a Dem controlled senate in Colorado.

But no way will an ultra-liberal Denver pol like Lickenpooper ever sign it.

Samisael
June 28, 2012, 02:49 AM
Come on Ohio!

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