M1 Carbine help


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Red Tornado
March 8, 2012, 12:24 AM
I'm going to a gun show this weekend and I'll be looking for an M1 Carbine, GI only. What are the different models worth? Gunbroker doesn't let me see what stuff sold for anymore, and I don't want to go in blind.

I know there are a bunch, IBM, Winchester, US Postal, Inland, etc. Which are worth more? I'm thinking $700 as an upper limit for most of them, is that about right.
Thanks,
RT

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greyling22
March 8, 2012, 01:52 AM
First off, I am not an expert, but here's what I know: They're almost all a mixmaster of rebuilt parts these days. matching numbers will probably be north of 1k. The brands that had fewer models suck as standard products or rockola will cost a premium as well. Then you get into condition etc. Inland will probably be the cheapest, and they're probably going to run you 650+ for one in decent shape. CMP ran out of them a year or 2 ago, so there aren't really any more hitting the market. Prices seem to keep going up.

http://riverbankarmory.com/history.html about 1/4 of the way down is a list of production numbers to give you an idea of how "collectable" the brand is.

Salmoneye
March 8, 2012, 07:39 AM
There are no 'matching numbers' on an M1 Carbine...

What there are, are different manufacturers marks on the various parts...

If lucky, you can find barrels and receivers that are the same manufaturer (both can have the makers name, some barrels are unmarked), and if you are really lucky, you may find one with many of the rest of the parts being from the same manufacturer, but seldom all from the same manufacturer, as some parts were not made by all of the companies that manufactured...

Start here for Military M1 Carbines:

http://www.rjmilitaria.com/m1carbine.htm

Post WWII:

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbines.html

A LOT more info out there on the net...

madcratebuilder
March 8, 2012, 08:08 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What Salmoneye said.

Most all have been through at least one clean and repair. They well have type II parts (bayo lug, safety, mag release and rear sight)

I found a very nice Inland in correct furniture and type II parts last summer for $600.

Afelt.tech
March 8, 2012, 10:47 AM
You're are all going to hate me, My father in law sold me is Saginaw S&S for $100 this summer.

Red Tornado
March 8, 2012, 10:55 AM
Thanks guys. I'm not looking for a correct model, basically the receiver is what I'll be going by. With the way prices are skyrocketing, I figure I need to get one now.

Thanks for the links, I'll do more some more research too.
RT

Red Tornado
March 8, 2012, 10:56 AM
Afelt,
Does he have any more and does your wife have a sister? ;)
RT

sarge83
March 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
Inland made the most M1's. Irwin Pedersons will set you back big time. S'G' if I remember correctly made very few in comparison to the other manufacturers.

There is and S'G' and an Inland in my local gun/pawn and the price on them is $999 each. Way over priced. You should be able to find one in the $600-$700 range. Just give it the usual inspection you would for any other firearm. There are many different variations on M1's some have the early flip sites some the later peep sites. Some have the push button safety, some have the flip type safety. Some have the smaller wood in the earlier models, some have the so-called pot-belly stocks.

Just avoid anyone pushing a Universal as USGI. Most are junk.

I would also suggest using CMP for ammo, pretty reasonable.

Good hunting!!!

rule303
March 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
Your $700 limit should get you a decent shooter. I wouldn't be to concerned with the manufacturer, they were all well made. Inlands are generally the cheapest, since they are the most common. Check for an import mark on the barrel, that would decrease the value quite a bit. BTW, you can still search completed auctions on Gunbroker, you have to go into advanced search mode, then click on the "completed" tab up top.

PapaG
March 8, 2012, 11:21 AM
Had a guy trade in an Underwood carbine...complete with Underwood marked barrel and a stock he had "modified" with wood putty, filling in the oiler slot and making a pistol grip cap of same as well as adding a recoil pad(!!). Had ten boxes of Fed soft point, some kind of green from moisture. I bought it out of the shop with the intent of knocking out the putty, found a correct buttplate, sling and oiler. Shoots great and I figure my initial $350 investment, by the books and online searches, is now about worth 600. Luckily he han not "refinished" the stock and the cartouches are still clean and visible.
Crap shoot on what rebuilds are worth. Bluebook is still a pretty good place to get an idea,

Carl N. Brown
March 8, 2012, 11:59 AM
The only serial number is on the receiver. My IBM carbine is marked IBM on the receiver and barrel.

Add to that while the prime contractors made the receivers and barrels and assembled guns, few of them made all the parts for their guns. Some contracted to other prime contractors to make the parts they did not make, and some sub-contracted to other makers to make parts. IBM had subcontractors for the small parts. IBM used M1 carbine bolts made at AutoOrdnance (the Tommy gun makers) for instance. IBM had multiple subcontrators for the same parts.

Parts from prime contractors and sub contractors all went into the military supply system. As guns were repaired in the field, they were updated with the current versions of many parts. The two types of adjustable rear sight replaced the "L" shaped flip sight. The rotating safety replaced the push button safety. The broad barrel band with bayonet lug replaced the narrow barrel band. As M1 carbine historian Larry Ruth pointed out, "it is extremely difficult to find carbines in original manufactured condition.

Heres a point that gets overlooked: a $400 carbine in mix-and-match mode may be a better shooter than a $800 all original carbine which would be more valuable to a collector.

bannockburn
March 8, 2012, 12:17 PM
Your price budget of $700 should get you a halfway decent M1 carbine. Lots of good info on here so far, and if you don't find anything this weekend I would suggest trying to locate a copy of Bruce Canfields book "A Collectors Guide to the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine". I found some used on amazon.com going from $20 to $25.

Red Tornado
March 8, 2012, 12:35 PM
Excellent, thanks. I'm making a cheat sheet to carry around with me, there's no way I can remember all the data. I'll probably look like an idiot whipping it out at the show, but what do I care? "Excuse me while I whip this out."

Honestly, I'm not too optimistic about finding one at the gun show. We all know what's happened to gun show prices the last few years. But, maybe I'll get lucky and find someone walking around with one to sell.
RT

adelbridge
March 8, 2012, 02:28 PM
completed M1 auctions:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-Rifles/BI.aspx?Keywords=m1+carbine&Timeframe=1

CZguy
March 8, 2012, 06:37 PM
Just to get you in the mood, here's a 1943 Underwood.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1CarbineII.jpg

skidooman603
March 8, 2012, 10:27 PM
Just to get you in the mood, here's a 1943 Underwood.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1CarbineII.jpg

That CZ always has pretty toys...I wouldn't expect one quite that nice at 7 bills..could happen but as mentioned, now that the CMP is out, the price has climbed some. If I were you the LAST place Ide look for one is a gunshow. I would look in the Carbines for sale on the CMP site. Most the guys there are pretty up front about what they are selling. They won't feed you the " this one stormed the beaches at Normandy" sales tactics. What did you use on that stock CZ? Thats darn near as pretty as that Garand you have..

CZguy
March 8, 2012, 11:18 PM
What did you use on that stock CZ

I cleaned up the stock on this one with rubbing alcohol, and lots of elbow grease. Then about five coats of hand rubbed boiled linseed oil.

I agree with skidooman603, that the best place to buy a used carbine is in the for sale section at the CMP website.

The only good deals at gun shows these days are in the hands of individuals walking around. (Occasionally)

It's not worth looking at the tables, unless you're in need of jerky.

ssyoumans
March 8, 2012, 11:48 PM
The last large gunshow here in Atlanta, run by Eastmans, M1 Carbines (Underwoods & Inlands) were going for $750, and they looked pretty rough.

I picked up a decent one back in Jan for $650 at a local gun shop. Serial # and date on the barrel are a match, so I was happy with my Underwood find. Shoots great!

Ammo is getting harder to find, best deal is $15/box at Aimsurplus.com for some Aguilla.

Good luck, you'll really like it once you get it.

Red Tornado
March 9, 2012, 10:12 AM
Thanks, I had forgotten that the CMP has a sale section. :banghead:

As for the gunshow, I DO need jerky. Alligator jerky, elk jerky, turkey jerkey, etc.
Plus, where else can I hang with a buddy and look at guns all day for $6? I might find a deal on .30 Carbine ammo and then I'll be ready for the rifle to show up.
Thanks for everyone's help, I've got to go check the CMP forums.
RT

Red Tornado
March 12, 2012, 06:41 PM
Well, I had the best gun show ever. I found a Standard Products in pretty good shape at a private seller table. He was asking $800, and I eventually got it for $700 with two magazines. Happy Tornado. :)

I found a decent price on some ammo and hit the range that afternoon. I had a few problems, stovepipes and failures to feed. But, the springs in the mags are definitely weak and caused the FTF, but I've already ordered more. It needed a cleaning, but I had to try it out, right? I'll give it a good cleaning and replace the mag springs before I pass final judgement.

I also sold a Chinese T-53 for twice what I had in it, so another bonus.

I didn't know you could still have a great day at a gun show.
RT

CZguy
March 12, 2012, 07:20 PM
I'll give it a good cleaning and replace the mag springs before I pass final judgement.

Don't pass judgement until you read the stickies on this forum. It really helped me to get my old carbine running right. :)

http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6

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