Putting a sling on my rifle.


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wcoats
March 8, 2012, 02:20 AM
Ok, I signed up to do go to an Appleseed shooting clinic on march 24th and 25th. I got a set of tech sights and put them on my Marlin Model 60, but allso need to put a sling on it. It has a wood stock and doesn't currently have any mounts for a sling. I didn't think this was a big deal, but when I took it to a local gun shop to ask about getting a sling for it they said I would have to get a gun smith to put sling mounts on it, then buy a sling. Or buy a different stock that has mounts for a sling and then buy a sling. I was kind of surprised at this. If there not a way that I can buy mounts for a sling to attach to that will screw into a the wood stock? I know that I would need to pre-drill holes to make sure not to split the wood and be careful, but I don't see why I would need to get a gun smith to do this. Where can I buy the parts to do this. I really don't want to pay a gun smith $100+ to put a sling on a $100 rifle......

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EchoM70
March 8, 2012, 02:35 AM
Most retailers that deal in gun accessories sell sling swivel studs... I believe even walmart sell them.

I found these on Amazon for example. (http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Company-Swivel-1-Inch-Hardware/dp/B000VYQAZE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331188269&sr=8-1)

Or you could go the slip-on sling route but if you are using the sling to steady your shot you could see accuracy problems due to it pulling on the barrel.

shiftyer1
March 8, 2012, 02:35 AM
Yes you can do this yourself, go to walmart and buy the swivels and drill u stock and thread em in. Gunshops don't always do repairs.

Jibs
March 8, 2012, 11:30 AM
this is simple, I did it myself no problems and the only experience I have with "gunsmithing" is cleaning a rifle, so basically no experience at all. Get a set of uncle mikes from any walmart or sporting goods store/gun shop. Drill the holes yourself and you are good to go. I even did mine in synthetic stock the same way as you would with wood. Predrill and screw 'em in, attach a sling, and you are done.

CraigC
March 8, 2012, 11:41 AM
For a model 60, I would go for the type that clamps on the magazine tube, with a wood screw at the rear. The forend is not very thick and birch is not very strong so I would recommend against a wood screw in the front. With the sling tension required at Appleseed, I would fear for its integrity.

saltydog452
March 8, 2012, 01:33 PM
You may have time to get a Garrand canvas sling from CMP. Works just dandy and inexpensive.

salty

wcoats
March 8, 2012, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the info, where can I get a sling mount that would clamp to the magazine tube?

henschman
March 8, 2012, 10:24 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/743516/uncle-mikes-quick-detachable-full-band-rimfire-sling-swivels-1-black

But unfortunately they only sell that setup with 1" swivels... you will have to buy some 1 1/4" swivels separately: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/774577/uncle-mikes-quick-detachable-super-sling-swivel-set-1-1-4-blue

wcoats
March 8, 2012, 11:46 PM
thanks heschman. this may be a dumb question, but what's wrong with a 1" sling? why is a 1 1/4" sling that much better? will I have a problem with a 1" web sling at an appleseed weekend? just for reference I can go to REI and buy 1" wide webbing that can hold a 1,000 lbs, so there isn't an issue with webbing that's 1" wide being strong enough, so what is that extra 1/4" doing for me?

henschman
March 9, 2012, 02:04 AM
A GI web sling (M1 and M-14 issue) will only fit on 1 1/4" swivels because it has some metal hardware that won't fit through anything narrower. Same deal with a 1907 leather sling.

One of these types of slings is recommended for Appleseed because it will let you use the "loop sling" technique for stabilizing the rifle. You can do a "hasty sling" with any adjustable length sling, but it isn't as stable in the prone and seated positions as a good loop sling is.

A GI shooting sling is one of those things that you can get by without, but is still a good idea if you want to get the very most out of the weekend.

wlewisiii
March 9, 2012, 02:35 AM
M1907. Leather. That's all you need to look for. :D

wcoats
March 9, 2012, 03:32 AM
ok, thanks, what is the difference from a 1" sling I can buy and a "GI web sling" I know this is probably a dumb question to someone that knows, but I don't. I do want to get the most out of my weekend. The whole reason I'm going to an appleseed weekend is to learn and getter better

GCBurner
March 9, 2012, 12:41 PM
ok, thanks, what is the difference from a 1" sling I can buy and a "GI web sling" I know this is probably a dumb question to someone that knows, but I don't. I do want to get the most out of my weekend. The whole reason I'm going to an appleseed weekend is to learn and getter better
I had a 1" web sling on my rifle at the first Appleseed shoot I went to. It's mostly a sling for carrying the rifle over your shoulder, but it can be used as a "hasty" sling too. The only problem I had with it is that it's made of nylon, and would slip down my arm. I got some quick-detachable sling studs and QD 1 1/4" swivels at Dick's Sporting Goods and replaced the fixed 1" swivels that came on my rifle, then added a USGI surplus cotton web sling. They showed the proper way of using one at the Appleseed, so I've been practicing with it some in anticipation of the next shoot. Properly adjusted, it fits tight around your upper arm, and holds the rifle firmly against your shoulder.

henschman
March 9, 2012, 03:34 PM
The difference is that the GI web sling is purposefully designed as a shooting sling. It has a clip on the rear end that lets you quickly detach it from the rear swivel, and a rear buckle that lets you make an arm loop for attaching the rear end of the sling to your arm. That is how you use the "loop sling" technique. And it has a quick-adjust keeper on the front that lets you quickly adjust it to the length you need to give you good support.

The 1907 leather is also purposefully designed as a shooting sling. It is made of 2 loops... the front one is your arm loop, which you adjust to the proper length to make a loop sling out of, and the rear loop is where you adjust the sling for overall length. The arm loop has 2 keepers on it, which you slide down when you're looped up, to keep the sling from sliding down your arm.

Either one works great, but the GI web is a lot cheaper than the 1907, which makes it a lot more popular for Appleseeds.

zxcvbob
March 12, 2012, 06:51 PM
Will the GI web sling work left-handed? I don't know why it wouldn't, unless the buckle would be on the wrong side and maybe that matters...

Cotton or nylon? (not a "silent" nylon, but the type with the same hardware as cottons) I know almost nothing about using a rifle sling, but I want to put one on my Mini-14 and learn how to use it. It came from the factory with 1.25 swivels.

chrome_austex
March 12, 2012, 07:07 PM
Cotton or nylon both work. Its a bit of a holy war over which is better, mainly cause they're nearly identical.

Cotton 'rots', nylon 'slips', while in my limited experience, neither does either. (I've got a nylon sling and its not nearly a slippery as the haters would lead you to believe).

Ya they work left-handed (of course).

FWIW, with a hammer, you can get a 1 1/4" GI sling through 1" loops, but you have to squish the metal tongue open to pull it off, slip the sling through the loops, and then get that tongue back on and hammer it flat again.

I've shot both 1907 and GI slings quite a bit, and I find the simpler and cheaper GI slings much nicer than the leather slings, mainly because the GI style is sooo much easier to adjust than the 1907 style. A stiff leather sling doesn't help you nearly as much as you think it would cause its supporting the rifle through tension, where the nylon slings are just as valid. Yet so many people are fanboys of the leather slings I hate to even mention it.

pseudonymity
March 12, 2012, 07:07 PM
The GI web sling works either way - you just turn the rear mount to the outside of your arm on whichever arm you sling up.

Cotton or nylon both work - cotton tends to slip less against other fabric on your arm when you are slung up, but absorbs water in the rain and can get a little stiff when it dries.

Nylon is a bit more slippery against other fabrics when you are slung up, but may be more durable over the long run.

After learning the correct loop sling technique at an Appleseed, I can not believe how much steadier the sitting/prone positions are. I can shoot more accurately with a loop sling prone than I can with a bipod prone and the butt of the stock just shoulder supported.

The GI slings are something like $10-15 or less most places. Using one is really simple too - they are one of those things that takes 4 paragraphs and 3 diagrams to explain online, but would take about 60 seconds of conversation if you were standing next to me with a sling in your hand.

Vern Humphrey
March 12, 2012, 08:45 PM
It's a simple process. You need the appropriate sized drill and countersink.

First, tape the stock where you intend to install the swivel bases (to prevent splitting and splintering when you drill.)

Next, take two strips of paper that exactly encircle the stock at the two installation points. Fold this paper in half to find the exact center, then use that as a gauge to mark the spots to drill.

Drill carefully -- I like to use a drill press and set up a fixture with 2X4s and clamps to hold the stock tightly and keep it perfectly vertical.

For the forend swivel, you need to countersink the inner end of the hole for the nut.

For the rear swivel, I like to squirt a little Elmer's Glue into the hole when the swivel screw is screwed in, and carefully wipe off any excess.

zxcvbob
March 13, 2012, 12:36 PM
FWIW, with a hammer, you can get a 1 1/4" GI sling through 1" loops, but you have to squish the metal tongue open to pull it off, slip the sling through the loops, and then get that tongue back on and hammer it flat again.I didn't really follow that, but I don't have one here to look at. I figured if I really have 1" swivels and I just measured them wrong :o I can grind/file the tongue part of the hook narrower until it fits.

henschman
March 13, 2012, 02:27 PM
Instead of all that hammering to remove and re-install the tab on a GI sling to get it to fit through 1" swivels, you can just cut the end of the strap off at a 45 degree angle and singe the end with a lighter to keep it from fraying, if it is a nylon sling. I don't imagine that method would work as well with cotton, though.

As for the metal clip that goes on the rear swivel, you can get by without it if you have your sling attached with a QD swivel. It's quieter without it anyway. Either that or you can narrow the clip down with a dremel or something as described above.

zxcvbob
March 13, 2012, 02:36 PM
Oh! You were talking about the tab at the muzzle-end of the strap. :)

Singeing the end of a cotton strap won't stop it from fraying. It will work with rayon or nylon or polyester (etc)

mac66
March 13, 2012, 02:50 PM
Here is a summery of what you need.

1. Go buy a set of sling studs. The kind that look like wood screws. You drill an appropriate size hole and then screw them it. If you have wood glue or the white Elmers glue, add a dab into each hole. It will help the studs from coming loose.

2. Buy a set of 1.25" swivels

3. Buy a GI Web sling. I have both a cotton and nylon one. The nylon one slips, so I use the cotton one. Replace the hooks on the sling with the sling swivels.

If you can't find the web sling before your shoot, contact the shoot boss and ask him. Most bring slings to loan and/or sell at the shoots.

Appleseed teaches the use of the web/loop sling. You can get by without a loop sling but it makes a big difference in shooting accurately so why not try it?

have fun at your shoot and good luck.

pseudonymity
March 15, 2012, 07:59 PM
Instead of all that hammering to remove and re-install the tab on a GI sling to get it to fit through 1" swivels, you can just cut the end of the strap off at a 45 degree angle and singe the end with a lighter to keep it from fraying, if it is a nylon sling. I don't imagine that method would work as well with cotton, though.

As for the metal clip that goes on the rear swivel, you can get by without it if you have your sling attached with a QD swivel. It's quieter without it anyway. Either that or you can narrow the clip down with a dremel or something as described above.

You could just do what I do I guess - I keep the sling in my jacket pocket until I need it. I use a QD swivel on the front loop of the sling. When it is time to shoot, I pull out the sling, loop up on my arm, adjust for length and get into position with the rifle. Insert just the pin of the QD swivel into the front swivel post on the rifle - the sling tension will hold it in place. After shooting, just remove the swivel from the front post. I just keep the sling looped up and hanging loose on my arm between firing strings.

This is not going to work for a hasty sling of course, but I just shoot with a loop for the offhand position. Just easier to bring the sling to the rifle than to bring the attached sling to your arm. It is going to take some practice if you do not want to look like a monkey humping a football while you loop up into an attached sling, especially in a prone position.

LAK
March 16, 2012, 05:13 AM
For a model 60, I would go for the type that clamps on the magazine tube, with a wood screw at the rear. The forend is not very thick and birch is not very strong so I would recommend against a wood screw in the front. With the sling tension required at Appleseed, I would fear for its integrity.
I haven't stripped a Marlin 60 and looked at one, but generally rimfire mag tubes are very thin walled steel; too much tension on one of those and you might bend it.

Putting a sling to be used as a tensioned component on a sporting .22 is not going to be easy at all. I would say that you would be better off without it as any way you mount it is going to put stresses on the fore end/barrel that will likely cause more accuracy upset than anything else even if you do not damage the fore end or mag tube.

Jibs
March 21, 2012, 02:36 AM
I picked up this canvas sling made by fox today at the army navy surplus store for 12 bucks:
https://www.gijoesmilitarysurplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1230_1362&products_id=12293

The cool thing is that it looks "old school" with the olive drab canvas. But even cooler is the shotgun shell "keepers" each perfectly and snugly fit 4 x .223 rounds, 2 one way and 2 the other. With 20 of these keepers, you can carry 80 rounds of ammo on your sling. Since I am using it on my mini, it is great!

IdealFugacity
August 2, 2012, 04:58 PM
If the OP is around, or anyone else who is knowledgeable on this subject I'd appreciate some input. There was a brief comment above but didn't go much further than that.

Regarding the Marlin, and either the stock or the mag tube type sling mounts... From what I understand, at Appleseed they educate you on a pretty tense sling position that will put a lot of pressure on the gun. I've read that the Marlin can be "flimsy" and have read accounts of both stock-mounted and tube-mounted slins throwing off the point-of-impact. Are these rare cases and others have successfully used a sling at high tension on a Marlin 60 without issue, and with benefits to their shooting? Once I get my new scope mounted I'll be itching to get a sling on the gun, having read good things about it, but don't want to somehow end up breaking the stock (mine is the base model laminated wood stock) or making the gun need to be adjusted/zeroed completely different for sling vs non-sling operation due to warping.

Thanks for any comments!

NeuseRvrRat
August 2, 2012, 05:37 PM
that laminated stock is a lot stronger than the old birch stocks. go ahead and mount your sling to it.

Caliper_RWVA
August 2, 2012, 07:02 PM
From what I understand, at Appleseed they educate you on a pretty tense sling position that will put a lot of pressure on the gun.

While different instructors and shoot bosses vary, in general Appleseed should be teaching a sling "taut, not tight". This isn't NRA High Power, it is field shooting. You don't need shooting jackets, gloves, pulse pads, etc. I have no problem using the factory stock on my Marlin 795, and it is not uncommon to improvise a front sling "swivel" using zip ties around the mag tube. I would still be nervous about screwing a stud into the Marlin 60 stock however because it is awfully thin there under the tube.

Jibs: That sling doesn't look like a good choice for Appleseed. You'd want something that can be used for the GI loop sling. The Appleseed store or the CMP are a great source for these.

gfanikf
August 2, 2012, 07:07 PM
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Reloadron
August 2, 2012, 07:26 PM
Maybe consider a configuration like these. (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=27299/Product/QD-SWIVELS) They are not difficult to install just make sure you drill a good and straight pilot hole.

Ron

Vern Humphrey
August 2, 2012, 07:32 PM
Give me a break!

Do you have a drill press? Do you know how to use it?

The only trick is this: Center the holes. The way to do that is to wrap a piece of paper around the stock, then crease it in half, then put it back around the stock and mark the center of the crease. That way you locate the center of the holes to be drilled.

Put masking tape on the stock before you mark it -- that will help prevent splintering, and make an indentation with a center punch before drilling. Drill with a standard screw-setter.

The rear swivel simply screws in. On the forearm swivel, you'll have to countersink inside the stock for the nut, and make sure neither the nut or any protruding bit of the screw contacts the metal parts of the rifle.

That's all there is to it.

IdealFugacity
August 3, 2012, 10:27 AM
Called Marlin and gave them my serial number, the stock is actually birch, not laminated wood like I thought. The rep on the line suggested using the forend as a mount regardless. I will probably go with the "T-nut" method...

Usagi
August 4, 2012, 11:28 AM
Ideal Fugacity,
A few quick thoughts for you:

1. With regards to mounting the sling swivel.
I bought a regular pack of sling swivels from Wal Mart - $8 or so. I cut the long screw so that it would fit in the stock under the tube area. I installed it and actually had to file it down a bit so the tube wound not be in contact with the sling swivel screw. Sounds long, but it took maybe 10 minutes.

2. With regards to sling tension.
What BluEyes said is 100% correct. Some As instructors will tell you to tighten the sling wayyyyy too much. At my first AS, a red hat instructor had me tighten my sling so much that my AR15 was shooting an two inches low and an inch to the left at 25 yards!

Just taut is correct.

PS - I used a Marlin 60 to earn my patch. Happened to do it with no sling, but also shot the score many times with one at that AS, as well.

3. Special considerations using a tube feed at Appleseed.
I made a post on my blog (http://usagidojo.blogspot.com/2010/06/appleseed-and-tube-feed_29.html) about my experience, as well as some methods to help for using a Marlin 60 at Appleseed. I know of at least a dozen other shooters who have been helped by these techniques. It also gets a Google hit at least once a week. Hope it helps you, too.

kcshooter
August 4, 2012, 11:38 AM
I didn't want to modify mine, drilling in the stock or clamping on the barrel and possibly wearing the finish.

I used paracord, wrapped tightly around the barrel and tube, between the tube end and the opening, tying a small loop into it on the bottom, then did the same thing on the stock. About 7 wraps of paracord. I actually wove a paracord sling for it to match, but I could have easily just attached a set of Mikes swivels and a GI web sling to it.


It's worked out very well, and it didn't alter the gun.

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