Non-LE Emergency Responsders and CC


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JustinJ
March 8, 2012, 03:20 PM
What is the normal procedure followed by EMTs when treating or transporting a person with a CC weapon? Suppose a CC permit holder has a heart attack, gets in a car wreck, etc, then EMTs respond and notice the weapon as they are treating the individual or transporting him to the hospital. What then? Do they disarm the patient and store the weapon? Call for police assistance and wait for a cop to disarm the person thereby delaying hospital arrival time? I suppose it may vary from state to state and county to county but guns are not allowed in many hospitals. Input from actual emergency repsponders would be great. Thanks.

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mnhntr
March 8, 2012, 03:42 PM
LEO is called and the weapon is given to them for secure keeping. The reason is there is no Hospital in the US that allows guns except for LEOs.

JustinJ
March 8, 2012, 04:30 PM
LEO is called and the weapon is given to them for secure keeping. The reason is there is no Hospital in the US that allows guns except for LEOs.

So do they wait for LE to arrive at the scene before transporting? Thats a little disconcerting if so.

Calhoun
March 8, 2012, 04:40 PM
99.9% of the time LE and/or fire will be there before the EMTs. If it is a situation where the EMTs could find themselves in danger (entering an un-cleared building after a shooting, un-friendly bystanders, etc) the EMTs will wait for LE to arrive and secure the scene before approaching.

JustinJ
March 8, 2012, 04:45 PM
99.9% of the time LE and/or fire will be there before the EMTs. If it is a situation where the EMTs could find themselves in danger (entering an un-cleared building after a shooting, un-friendly bystanders, etc) the EMTs will wait for LE to arrive and secure the scene before approaching.

I have witnessed on multiple occasionas EMTs respond to emergency health issues for which LE never showed. Obviously after a traffic incident they will both be there but for something like a heart attack or injury without violence i believe EMTs commonly show up alone.

Larry Ashcraft
March 8, 2012, 05:06 PM
The reason is there is no Hospital in the US that allows guns except for LEOs.
I don't think that's quite true. I can legally carry in either of my city's two hospitals. One has "No Weapons" signs, but they're not enforceable by law. The other one has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

JTHunter
March 8, 2012, 05:30 PM
After the violent jarring of an auto accident, who can say that the firearm will still be in the holster? What if it is stored in the glovebox or center console?

bobdubois
March 8, 2012, 05:31 PM
As an EMT, assuming there was no threat to crew or public safety, the patient's condition would be the primary factor in my determination of the transport priority. If the patient needed immediate transport we would load and roll and call for police to meet us en route or at the hospital. In most cases where the patient is down in a public place, police are on scene before we arrive. if we need them (believe it or not) they are there before we can begin transport.

wannabeagunsmith
March 8, 2012, 05:33 PM
After the violent jarring of an auto accident, who can say that the firearm will still be in the holster? What if it is stored in the glovebox or center console?


Than hopefully the car's/gun's owner will have a chance to retrieve the firearm before the car gets scraped.

CoRoMo
March 8, 2012, 05:38 PM
Larry is correct. Here in Colorado, hospitals have no enforceable way to prohibit CC.

I've reported at least one hospital for having a gun buster sign, which is illegitimate in our state.

JustinJ
March 8, 2012, 06:06 PM
After the violent jarring of an auto accident, who can say that the firearm will still be in the holster? What if it is stored in the glovebox or center console?

So not the point.

Sam1911
March 8, 2012, 06:18 PM
A good friend of mine spent about a decade as an EMT (she's moved up to a more rewarding job -- Deputy Coronoer) and told me that they usually place the firearm with the other personal effects, no big deal. They'll hand it over to your wife or whomever is collecting your things while you're in the hospital. 'Course, that's PA and we tend not to be real uptight about that kind of stuff.

NOLAEMT
March 8, 2012, 07:19 PM
SOP for my organization is to give the firearm to LE if on scene, but if they are not there, or if the firearm is discovered upon physical exam in the truck or en route another person can also take the gun if the patient is awake and capable of making decisions, and an appropriate friend/family member is on scene.

In that case the firearm will be secured and given to hospital security upon arrival.

Because I know someone will ask, and no, no firearms are allowed in the passenger compartment of the ambulance, with the exception of law enforcement while transporting a patient in hard restraints (ie handcuffs and leg irons). This even applies to LEO's that are patients, they give their guns to their partners for the trip.

NOLAEMT
March 8, 2012, 07:25 PM
Oh, and FYI as part of our training for our people on what do do with a holster gun found on an unconscious or heavily injured patent we teach that the safest way to secure the firearm is to keep it in its holster, and to cut the holster out of the pants/off the belt. So don't be surprised to have your holster and gunbelt returned to you in multiple pieces.

Flintknapper
March 8, 2012, 07:27 PM
Sam1911 wrote:

A good friend of mine spent about a decade as an EMT (she's moved up to a more rewarding job -- Deputy Coronoer) and told me that they usually place the firearm with the other personal effects, no big deal. They'll hand it over to your wife or whomever is collecting your things while you're in the hospital.

Same thing here (Texas). My Daughter is an RN and "tag teams" back and forth between ICU and the ER. They have had several CC's come in. Depending upon the condition of the patient, the patient is allowed to keep possession of the firearm (her hospital is NOT posted) or it is put with the patients personal effects.

In Texas, a hospital must be posted with the correct 30.06 signage, or you can carry therein. From what I've seen about 1/2 are posted...the others not.

Stacer
March 8, 2012, 09:28 PM
I know that if a patient has a gun, and I don't feel safe, I'm leavin.

BSA1
March 8, 2012, 09:29 PM
LEO is called and the weapon is given to them for secure keeping. The reason is there is no Hospital in the US that allows guns except for LEOs.

Not true. I use to work hospital security at a major level 1 hospital and we were regularly called to take possession of patient weapons such as knives and guns. We logged them in our computer and placed them in a safe until a designated family member claimed them.

Larry Ashcraft
March 8, 2012, 10:17 PM
The reason is there is no Hospital in the US that allows guns except for LEOs.
Looks like this has been challenged a few times, myself included.

Please cite your source.

The one thing I won't stand for is spreading BS on THR. We don't do that.

Link to whatever law(s) you are referring to.

STL73
March 9, 2012, 01:03 PM
I also am curious about the Hospital statement. Last June my wife had a baby and I carried an LCP .380 for the duration of the stay. CCW laws in my state allow for the property owners/and or administrators to prohibit inside provided it is clearly maked and or posted in a very visible manner. Thet cannot prohibit in a vehicle or parking lot. Obviously there were no signs and I was perfectly legal and within my rights.

Know your gun rights....

Golderpuff
March 9, 2012, 01:09 PM
I drive a squad and if no LEO's are present at the scene they are called for fire arms. They might travel behind and take possesion at the hospital or they take it before we leave. Some Hospitals security is told that we are coming in with a firearm and they take possesion of it. Some people choose to leave it with a family member at the scene thats thier choice as long as a fire arm is not the reason we are there, because if it is LEO's are there and all firarms get rounded up.

NJGarand
March 9, 2012, 02:46 PM
My former agency's SOP was no firearms in the ambulance. Not even LEO. We had lock boxes in the back where the LEO would place his firearm if he were accompanying in the back of the ambulance. Most times he would give it to another LEO who is following in a patrol car.

Steve in PA
March 9, 2012, 03:46 PM
Was the LEO a patient or riding in the back of the ambulance because of a suspect? If I were a patient, then my handgun would be secured by another LEO. If I had to ride in the back because of a suspect, I would never give up my handgun.

NJ is one screwed up state!

NJGarand
March 9, 2012, 04:01 PM
That's easy, then you would simply drive behind the ambulance. I never cared if an LEO is still carrying in the back, but that was every agency's policy that I've worked for. And yes, it comes down to most on NJ having a "fear of firearms" culture. Anyway, in 15 years of EMS I've never had a patient that I couldn't "restrain" myself. Then again, I'm 6'3" 285.

I do have a problem with itchy OC trigger fingers though. The back of an ambulance is WAY TOO SMALL for an OC discharge. I speak from personal experience.

jk2008
March 9, 2012, 04:26 PM
Based on what I've seen recently, the ER in at least one Colorado Springs hospital (Memorial North) has a "no weapons" policy in the ER--they have an armed guard with a metal detector on site--but the main entrance has a sign that only prohibits the open carry of weapons.

mnhntr
March 9, 2012, 06:23 PM
I guess I should have said every hospital I have taken patients to over my 15yrs as a paramedic in 4 different states has not allowed any weapons. Looks like this has been challenged a few times, myself included.

Please cite your source.

The one thing I won't stand for is spreading BS on THR. We don't do that.

Link to whatever law(s) you are referring to.

mnhntr
March 9, 2012, 06:25 PM
I am speaking of the policies for the services for which I have worked.Not true. I use to work hospital security at a major level 1 hospital and we were regularly called to take possession of patient weapons such as knives and guns. We logged them in our computer and placed them in a safe until a designated family member claimed them.

Cactus Jack Arizona
March 9, 2012, 07:34 PM
Well, my friend was involved in a bad accident in KS. He was tore up pretty bad but was alert enough to tell the emt's that he had his pistol and permit on him. At that point, rather than giving him emergency treatment, the emt's ran around in circles in an induced state of fear, squealing like little girls until the cop showed up to remove his gun. :rolleyes:

It was tough to listen to him explain going through that experience. The press has done a great job inducing fear amongst the public. :cuss: Seriously, during their emt training they can't fit a little gun training in as well? :confused:

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