which savage for long range precision?


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proven
March 8, 2012, 11:26 PM
i'm looking to get into long range precision shooting, and have narrowed my search down to a few savage models. what are your thoughts on the pros/cons of each and which would you choose and why?

i'm looking at the basic 10 fcp-k, 10fcp-sr, and the 10 fcp mcmillan. this is a value/bang for buck type of purchase, and thoughts regarding the the rifles with price point and specs in mind would be helpful.

i'll also need help with scope base/rings, and bipod. the scope i have in mind is the vortex viper pst 4-16 x50. any other recommendations are welcome.

cheers.

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Pat M
March 9, 2012, 12:39 AM
What calibers are you considering?

Kachok
March 9, 2012, 01:09 AM
I have had great luck with every model I have tried, but the 12 series is a world class match rifle, and the 111 Long Range Hunter is the premo sporter weight hunting rifle. Even my little el-chepo MkII/110s have been amongst the most accurate rifles I have ever shot, they easly put my Remingtons and Winchesters to shame. Only Sako/Tikka hang with Savage for remarkable accuracy.

NOLAEMT
March 9, 2012, 02:00 AM
my personal preference is for the EGW mount for savage rifles. The examples I have seen and used have been very well finished, and give flexibility as to where exactly you want your scope.

mnhntr
March 9, 2012, 02:01 AM
Warne makes a good 20MOA base.

Kachok
March 9, 2012, 02:14 AM
Savage sucks.
I cannot even begin to explain how wrong that is, the Savages I have owned have not only outshot many other brands they have outlasted them as well, to date I have never had one break on me and I have owned many of them over many years. Savage steel is better then Remington by a good margin, equile to the steel on the Winchesters, they don't rust even in our year round 90+% humidity, high temps and salt air.
The only other rifle that I have tried in the past decade that impressed me as much is my Tikka T3 Stainless. Superb accuracy, lots of venison in the freezer and ZERO issues. You simply could not dream up a better gun.

Dmitri Popov
March 9, 2012, 02:14 AM
My opinion, and others who I hold in high regard, Savage don't make a bad gun.
Pick one with Accu-trigger, and then just pick the caliber and stock you like. Heck I have an Axis without the AT and love it to death!

Ar180shooter
March 9, 2012, 02:29 AM
Of the ones you've suggested, I'd go for the 10 FCP Mcmillan in .308.

As for scopes, I have a Vortex Viper HD and find it to be of good quality. I haven't tried their Viper PST line, but they do have a good reputation for value.

lefteyedom
March 9, 2012, 04:03 AM
Pick the Savage rifle that feels the BEST IN YOUR HANDS!!

308 is a great round out to 800 yards and proven at 1000.

Spend your money on optics.

Savage saved it self by focusing on the 110 model. For nearly 40 year it "got no respect" But once shooters start looking at the target and not simply repeating old pot belly stove B.S about it's "ugly" barrel nut the rifle finally got the respect it deserved.

proven
March 9, 2012, 07:16 AM
patriot1/3, take your childish BS elsewhere.

i'm really only considering the .308 right now. i'm not yet set up to reload, and from everything i've read, for getting started in long range it's hard to beat .308 for what it offers in performance and as a learning tool.

i'm mostly interested in whether the box mag, scope base, and accustock are worth the extra $ over the fcp-k model. how the brake works for those that have shot with it, and whether the mcmillan is worth the extra $ over the sr model. kind-of a "best bang for buck" comparison of the three.

Tempest 455
March 9, 2012, 07:52 AM
Yep junk....................:rolleyes:


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f258/lara3ec/savageteam_0003.jpg

Team Savage started its 2010 season in grand fashion, winning the F T/R National Championship team competition by besting all others in the 600 and 1,000 yard events, and establishing an new 1,000-yard record of 778-21X. That would seem hard to top. But that is exactly what they did at the last two major matches of their season.

Darrell Buell of Damascus, OR; John Weil of Welches, OR; Monte Milanuk of Wenatchee WA and Stan Pate of Milwaukie, OR wrapped up the season with two internationally sanctioned matches: the Canadian International Fullbore Championships held in Chilliwack. B.C. and the Pacific International Fullbore Championships held just outside of Portland, OR. At these matches, elite shooters from around the world compete at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards. The two matches combined constitute a “Super Aggregate”, or continental title.

Team Savage loaded up on the hardware at both matches, winning multiple medals at the various distances. They captured the team gold at the Canadian match and Gold and Silver in the individual Super Aggregate.

The real fireworks happened in the Oregon match. With John Weil leading the way, Team Savage put on a veritable clinic. This competition was held on Weil and Pate’s home range at the Douglass Ridge Rifle Club and they showed everybody that nobody knows how to read the conditions on that range better than Team Savage. Weil won all seven gold medals available, while teammate Stan Pate won six silvers. Monte Milanuk added three bronzes. Weil also shot a new national record at 1000 yards, scoring 148-4x.

(http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=1DoKxAoZh)

hardluk1
March 9, 2012, 10:35 AM
If long range percision is wanted then change rifle groups from the leo based rifles to the target class of rifles. You also don't want a SR ready barrel. What caliber and distance are you looking to shoot. The 308 is somewhat out classed today buy the 6.5 cal for longer range and the .223 can more than handle a 308 out to 500 to 600 yards with 80gr + bullets.

Kachok
March 9, 2012, 02:53 PM
The best part about team Savage is they shoot with factory rifles! Those darn 12 series rifles are tough to beat even when their rivals are shooting 20k+ full custom guns.

The Sarge
March 9, 2012, 02:56 PM
"Savages sucks"....Lord help me when I am on the internet...as they know not what they say.....
I am no world class super duper marksman....I own many high end rifles and high end scopes.
I have a Savage .308 ...thing is just really accurate and reliable....totally trust in it.

hardluk1
March 9, 2012, 03:37 PM
Just that can make them suck when they out shot way costlier rifle!!!!. Like weatherby's vanguard/howa or remingtons old 788 series.

uvausmc
March 9, 2012, 05:48 PM
I got a Model 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor. After a very short break in period it is shooting great. 1/4" groups at 100yds. About 2" at 250 yds but I havent gotten to shoot it very much at that range. I handload but so far the factory Hornady 140gr A-Max loads have given the best accuracy. I would definitely recommend this rifle.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh41/uvausmc/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh41/uvausmc/IMG_0294.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh41/uvausmc/IMG_7141.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh41/uvausmc/IMG_7143.jpg

pdd614
March 9, 2012, 07:46 PM
I will second the lrp 6.5 creedmoor. Factory match ammo is about the same as 308 match. So even though you don't reload, you get all the benefits that come with shooting 6.5's. Trust us on this.

proven
March 9, 2012, 07:58 PM
hardluk1, i'm sticking with the .308. i don't reload (yet) and .308 seems to be a very good choice for someone just getting into stuff between 300 and 1000yds. why not the suppressor ready bbl? i'm thinking more along the lines of tactical shooting matches.

proven
March 9, 2012, 08:01 PM
pdd614, what is your experience with long range matches? i only ask because everything i've read from mulitple solid sources state that for someone just getting started, .308 is the way to go. so if i'm to "just trust you on this", what exactly am i trusting and why is the 6.5 better for a newbie like myself?

preaction
March 9, 2012, 08:20 PM
Savage mod 12, 29" barrel and factory accu trigger. Gray laminated wood stock shot .306 3 shot group and 5 shot .390 group with hand loads on the first time out thats awsom! This was at 100 yards with 6mm br.

Kachok
March 9, 2012, 08:27 PM
A 6.5mm has every advantage in the world over a 30 cal for punching paper or for hunting game up to the size of mule deer. The 6.5s will kick less and tend to have higher BC then 30 cals, at leased the ones the 308 can shoot anyway. The remarkable difference in recoil is a huge advantage too, I can shoot my featherweight 6.5x55 all day long even with max load 140s, no way I can do that with my 308 even though it weighs more.
Lets compare the external ballistics of a 308 175gr SMK and a 140gr VLD 6.5 (Sweed, Creedmore, x47 Lapua They are all vary similar)
175gr 308 2700fps
1,000yd drop 413" drift 10 mph crosswind 90" 635ft/lbs

140gr 6.5x55 2800fps
1,000yd drop 342" drift 10mph crosswind 66" 724ft/lbs

As you can see the 6.5 holds every imagainable advantage over the 308 by a healthy margin. That is why they are so popular among long ranged shooters.

rikman
March 9, 2012, 08:46 PM
Proven

I have the 308 hs precision stock & hand load. I also have a 600yd range. The accuracy is awesome. I have nothing to compare it too though. First quality bolt rifle. Egw mount is nice. I went with Nightforce mount rings & scope. I have target pics if interested.

Rikman


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

proven
March 9, 2012, 09:02 PM
kachok, do the external ballistics outweigh ammo availablity/cost and bbl life? again every thing i've read (including the sticky at the top of the rifle library) states that .308 is the top choice for beginners. what leads you to recommend the 6.5 to a beginner, aside from better external ballistics? plus .308 allows entry into certain events that require a military caliber.

Kachok
March 9, 2012, 09:10 PM
First of all the 6.5x55 is a military caliber as well. Secondly I can buy ammo for my sweed for less then I can for my 308 if you don't count that corosive junk ($13.50 a box for new Prvi) Barrel life on the non-magnum 6.5s are in the many of thousands of rounds, the same catagory as the 308, I have never wore out a barrel in either. I don't know exactly why but the 6.5x55 is also easier to develop handloads for, I honestly don't know why but it just comes together easier at the range, many other handloaders have said the same. As much as I like the Sweed I will say that the 6.5x47, Creedmore and 260 Rem are also great choices that can do eveything the Sweed will in a short action package.
The 308 is no doubt a top choice for beginer hunters and long range shooters, solid performance and super easy availbility, but for those who handload or plan to the 6.5x55 holds every imagineable advantage for paper and deer sized game, though I will admit that the 308 makes a slightly better elk cartrage, there really is something to be said for larger caliber and heavier bullets on CXP3 class game.

proven
March 9, 2012, 10:01 PM
are we comparing apples and tangerines here? savage doesn't make a rifle in 6.5x55 that i know of. so the price of the sweed ammo, and the fact that it's still a military caliber aren't really pertinent.

do you have any experience or suggestions pertaining to the rifles i mentioned in the caliber i mentioned? i'm pretty well sold on .308.

Pat M
March 9, 2012, 10:14 PM
If you start shooting it a lot, you will probably wind up handloading in the end. If I had the cash I'd look at the Savage Model 12 Long Range Precision in .260 Rem. If I had less cash I'd settle for the Savage 10FP-SR in .308. I've already used up my one-gun-a-year budget.

Flintknapper
March 9, 2012, 10:57 PM
Yup, the Savage rifle really “sucks”. :rolleyes:

My Brother’s Model 10 Precision Carbine (.308) will do this all day with hand-loads.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/flintknapper/MarkTarget2.jpg

My Daughter’s deer rifle (Savage) in 7mm-08 will do nearly as well.

Maybe someday we will toss these and get “real” rifles. ;)

pdd614
March 9, 2012, 11:42 PM
If you are sold on a 308 then by all means get a 308. If this were 1995, I would agree with you. But the industry, especially long range shooting, has moved past the old war horse. I can't think of one good reason to buy a 308 right now, unless it were just for a donor action.
Price of ammo?
308 black hills is 32 a box of 20
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1339724534/black-hills-ammunition-308-winchester-175-grain-match-hollow-point-boat-tail

federal gold is 29 a box
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/953728886/federal-premium-gold-medal-ammunition-308-winchester-175-grain-sierra-matchking-hollow-point-boat-tail

meanwhile 6.5 creedmoor is only 23 a box from midway or powder valley
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/784804/hornady-match-ammunition-65-creedmoor-140-grain-a-max-boat-tail-box-of-20

So with a creedmoor you get better ballistics, less recoil, and cheaper factory ammo. What's not to like? Sure you could find some surplus ammo that is cheaper than this, but we are talking about precision long range shooting right? You have to get quality stuff, and the creedmoor was built with this in mind. They even print the load recipe on the box just in case you decide to start reloading in the future. You can reproduce these factory loads by just going by what the box says. Doesn't get much easier than that

Here's a couple of great articles from a forum member named Zak Smith: I suggest reading them.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-creedmoor-260-done-right/
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/

Kachok
March 10, 2012, 12:44 AM
Yeah by all means if you are sold on the 308 go with it, great caliber for everything from punching paper to taking trophy elk, I was just pointing out the benifits that the little 6.5 enjoys, and yes I have seen Savages in 6.5x55 as well as 260Rem, 6.5 Creedmore and the legendary 6.5-284. If I were just target shooting I would go with the 12 F/TR I think that is the one Team Savage shoots, 308 cal 30" tube and 12.65lbs it is a beast of a 30 cal. BTW that extra 8" of barrel is good for an extra 100-150fps depending on your bullet weight, if that is a touch pricy for you any of the 12 series are sure to make tiny tiny little groups if you do your part. As far as the 10 series goes, don't expect the accuracy of the bull barrel 12s but they are sure to keep you well below 1/2 MOA with good handloads. The 10 series is much more logical if you are going to be carrying your gun around alot since they are much lighter. Now I don't own either one of those high end target rifles, but my plain jane 110 hunting rifles are fantastic at the range, yes even with their flimsy el-chepo stocks, my new 06 is not even broke in yet and it was shooting .75" with my first run of handloads! My now departed model 11 270 WSM would shoot even tighter then that with 130 ballistic tips, needless to say I am sold on Savages, all five of mine were fantastic, in fact the only rifle I have owned that will keep pace with them is my Tikka which is another hella good gun.

2'Bucks'11
March 10, 2012, 12:56 AM
I have a savage M110 pre accu-trigger. Chambered in 30-06 spring, shoots very well and tight. You wont go wrong with a savage.

Mark-Smith
March 10, 2012, 05:11 AM
I'll third the "Savage 12 LRP" recommendation. I bought mine for 1,000 yard target shooting.

Go for Remington .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor. The .308 round is ok, but you can do a lot better. Look at the BC ratings for .308 vs .260 vs 6.5 and then make your decision.

I haven't gotten out to a 1,000 yard range yet (just got it the other month), but at 100 yards, it has the eerie habit of putting multiple rounds through the same hole! :what:

Also, make sure you get a 20 MOA inclined scope base - when you're shooting out at longer ranges, most scopes tend to run out of vertical adjustment room, so having an angled base helps compensate for that.

I purchased mine from Bud's Gun Shop in Kentucky for $900, best money I've ever spent.

Put some decent rings and a good scope on there and you've got yourself a world-class shooting machine.

JimStC
March 10, 2012, 08:13 AM
Yesterday I brought home a new Savage Lightweight Hunter for my wife. Caliber is .223. Cleaned the barrel and bolt, installed a Leupold LRT scope, had it zeroed in 5 rounds. Took my wife out to our range and she shot sub 1" groups at 150 yards. Not even broken in yet.
This is the second Savage. The other is the Model 12 in .204 Ruger.
The rifle has a 26" fluted barrel and with the NightForce Scope weighs 13.5 lbs.
It shoots sub .5" groups all day. Not something I would want to carry for 5 miles, but one heck of a varmint rifle.
I am sold on Savage. They perform right out of the box. The Accutrigger is amazing.

dprice3844444
March 10, 2012, 08:36 AM
http://www.tobystactical.com/

proven
March 10, 2012, 10:29 AM
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

this is the article that has me leaning towards .308, along with a couple stickies read on snipershide. is this info outdated?

i'm also leaning towards the leo guns due to the practical style of shooting. this won't be a benchrested rifle, so weight is of consideration. i could always rebarrel the .308 in .260 later, after i develop the necessary skills to be able to use the .260 to it's fullest potential. my access to a 1k range is limited, and it would take some practice at shorter distances to be able to get to that point.

Kachok
March 10, 2012, 11:02 AM
I would not call the information outdated, everything he was saying appeared to be spot on, and he said the same thing I did about the availability of 308 ammo being a factor, but he also said that the 260 gives higher performance then the 308 too, and handloaders are not worried about what brand of ammo Wal-Mart carries :D I don't agree with him on 1 MOA being "enough" for long range target shooting, I expect better then that from my hunting rifles, and I get it too. I don't so much agree that LR shooters need detachable magazines, but I like them myself so why not.

proven
March 10, 2012, 11:59 AM
as for ammo availability, i prefer to be able to find it just about anywhere. however, i typically buy online and stock up when there's a deal to be had. i may venture into reloading at some point, but right now it's just not in the cards.

i would expect better than 1 moa accuracy as well, which i think most of the savages provide.

i was on the fence about the detachable mag, but it seems they do come in handy for certain practical/tactical long range matches.

in the referenced article he mentions that if someone could have only one long range rifle, that it should be a .308. that's pretty much where i'm at. i'm looking at $1000 or less for the rifle to allow about the same for an optic. after which, it'll be practice, practice, practice...and quite some time before i could think of adding an additional rifle.

JimStC
March 10, 2012, 12:15 PM
When you get it all together please post pics of the rifle and scope.
Good luck and great shooting.......

Kachok
March 10, 2012, 12:26 PM
Yeah the key difference is handloading, for those that do the billion stores that carry 308 ammo mean little to nothing, so we look for what bullet can do the job best. For those who don't roll their own being able to find ammo is a major concern, so they are willing to compromise on the ballistics a little for ease of use, makes sence to me. A $1,000 range on an optic is awful steep I would think. Heck my $150 Nikons give amazing performance, I saw a 6-18 power Nikon with all the bells and whistles the other day for less then that ($132 I think). I would have bought it, but I don't have a target gun, hence no use for an 18 power.

aubie515
March 10, 2012, 12:41 PM
Sounds like the OP wants 308 which is a fine choice. For someone starting out...308 is great because they can find factory ammo everywhere and there is so much information on the 308.

I agree with the others that there are "better" options compared to the 308, but 308 components are plentiful. That is the reason why I stayed with the 308 versus jumping to the 260 in a bolt action and 6.5CM in a semi. I would like to have a more efficient caliber, but I have invested so much money in 308 that it's difficult for me to switch to another caliber.

To the OP, if you are interested I have an unfired Savage 10FCP McMillan stock that I am going to sell since I already have other bolt rifles. PM if you are interested.

proven
March 10, 2012, 04:47 PM
i'm not comiited to spending 1k on the optic, but i could go as high as that. i'm a firm believer in "buy once, cry once", and the vortex i mentioned has pretty much all of the features i'm looking for. mil reticle, mil turrets, ffp, 4-16x, etc.

Kachok
March 10, 2012, 06:46 PM
Just check out the Nikons before you spend that kind of money, I think you will be impressed, I checked out all the high dollar scopes but none of them had better glass then the Nikon for a fraction of the money....go figure. BDC recticle is really nice too out to 600yds. No issue with the zero on either of mine, I have not had to adjust my zero at all despite years of regular use on my Tikka 6.5x55. It will still stack them in the bullseye all day long.

JimStC
March 10, 2012, 07:08 PM
Agreed on the Nikon glass. Just bought some Monarch binoculars. They are incredible. I know these are different than scopes but it does speak to the quality of their optics. Very, very pleased. Could have spent twice the price and not improved the optics

aubie515
March 10, 2012, 07:56 PM
You missed out on the SS 5-20 scope a few months ago on SH...they offered for under $1k and it's a very nice optic. If you are LE/military, Horus had their HDMR 3-21 optic offered at a very good price. I'm not sure if that price is still being offered, but it was well under $1k.

I bought both optics and can say that FFP is worth the extra coin.

Hoghunter
March 10, 2012, 10:11 PM
Since no one else has brought it up.....I will.
NRA Long Range Shooting is broken up into two classes for scope mounted rifles. F-Open allows any caliber less than 35 caliber, along with a front rest and a rear bag for support. F-T/R requires either a .223 or .308 caliber rifle that uses a front bipod and a rear bag. You need to decide which division you want to shoot in and then make your decision about caliber.

Yep, Savages are just terrible. I bought a Mdl 12 BVSS .308 last month and am getting it broken in for Mid-Range (300, 500, and 600 yd matches) and Long Range (800 - 1,000 yd matches). So far I have a 1/4" group at 100 yds shooting Nosler Competition 175's backed by 45 grains of Varget. I would have shot it this weekend at the Camp Swift Mid-Range Match, but the weather forced the match to be cancelled and rescheduled for June.

Two of my shooting buddies who swear by their custom Remington actions have been shocked at the "out of box accuracy" of my rifle.

My next rifle will probably be another one of these "terrible" Savage bolt actions.

HH

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