460 owners step in.


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TennJed
March 10, 2012, 10:15 AM
I currently have a couple of Rugerís in 45 Colt and reload for them. My father in law has a Redhawk 454 Casull and i have been wanting one for a while.

Now i am interested in something in 460 s&w. The 3 caliber option intrigues me. I know i can google info but i was interested in hearing from anyone here that has expirience in them.

I know that Freedom Arms, S&w, and magnum research make revolvers in them. Does anyone else make them? Do you see much decrease in accuracy between the calibers?

Anybody reload the 460? How hard is it to find brass and lead?

Bggest question i have is, how much difference in recoil do you see between the 454 vs 460?

thanks!

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bikemutt
March 10, 2012, 11:14 AM
I'm keenly interested in hearing as well, a very nice S&W is available to me at an attractive price.

I did shoot several big bore handguns once in the same session, .44 mag, 454 Casul, .460 and .500, all were hand loads made by the host.

Of the four I found the .460 as civilized as the .44 mag, needless to say the .500 while a lot of fun, was painful and hard for me to control.

TennJed
March 10, 2012, 01:50 PM
I'm keenly interested in hearing as well, a very nice S&W is available to me at an attractive price.

I did shoot several big bore handguns once in the same session, .44 mag, 454 Casul, .460 and .500, all were hand loads made by the host.

Of the four I found the .460 as civilized as the .44 mag, needless to say the .500 while a lot of fun, was painful and hard for me to control.


Bikemutt hopefully we will get some feedback. I wish i had a good deal on a s&w.

bikemutt
March 10, 2012, 03:58 PM
Bikemutt hopefully we will get some feedback. I wish i had a good deal on a s&w.
I will PM you the store. I just bought a very expensive Browning shotgun from them and noticed the S&W 460. I checked it out pretty well, it looked to be lightly used and well worth the $850 asking price (approximate, I know it started with an 8).

In any event I'm so broke after buying that Browning it will be a while before I can consider the .460.

On the other hand I saw one at a pawn shop yesterday that had seen a lot more action, they want $1200 for it and have no interest in negotiating.

PM incoming.

Loosedhorse
March 10, 2012, 04:50 PM
I have a .460 with a 3.5 inch barrel and a brake that brings it to 4.5 inches:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/170268_large.jpg

I love to bring it to the range and load .45 Colt cowboy, .45 Colt defense load, .45 Colt+P hunting load, .454 Casull, and .460. The difference between each load is increasingly incredible: after you get to the .454, you just can't believe that the .460 will be more. But it is, and just about as much more as the .454 is above the .45+P (subjectively).

I tend to offer it (after demonstration) to friends to try. Most stop after the +P; the last guy, after the first shot; the guy before that fired all five with a big smile. People vary.

Bullets are easily available (.45 Colt). Brass is available, but expensive.

I'm not sure if I'd like the 12 and 14 inch versions as much, though I'm sure they're great at 100 yards. To me, a barrel length of somewhere near 6 inches is great--allows hunting and "just in case of bear" use.

BTW, I don't find either it or the .500 "painful"--a bit exciting, though!

CraigC
March 10, 2012, 05:00 PM
Freedom Arms does not build a .460.

You have to ask yourself what you want it for. The increased velocity won't kill anything any bigger or any deader. All you're gaining is range. How much do you need? Because standard magnums will easily get you to 125yds and very, very few handgunners have any business shooting game beyond that with a handgun.

Loosedhorse
March 10, 2012, 05:19 PM
All you're gaining is range.You forgot expense, bruises, fun and bragging rights!

For a 360 gr bullet, there's a noticeable difference between .454 Casull (1400 fps, 1600 ft-lb) and .460 (1900, 2860). Not sure if that difference affects mostly range, or terminal effect on BIG animals.

Of course, outside of Africa and Alaska, that may not matter much. But putting one of those .460 360s through a bullseye has GOT to be worth a whole lot of beers, if your friends are worth a thing!

TennJed
March 10, 2012, 05:20 PM
Freedom Arms does not build a .460.

You have to ask yourself what you want it for. The increased velocity won't kill anything any bigger or any deader. All you're gaining is range. How much do you need? Because standard magnums will easily get you to 125yds and very, very few handgunners have any business shooting game beyond that with a handgun.
My bad, I thought FA made one. Anyway, I want one for the most important reason. The heck of it.

I really like my enjoy my 45 colts and have an itch for a new gun. The versatlity seems interesting.

buck460XVR
March 10, 2012, 08:23 PM
Anyway, I want one for the most important reason. The heck of it.



.........and a good reason it is. Despite the nay-sayers, there's a big bit of difference between the .460 and the so called "standard magnums". With the same weight projectile, the velocity of the .460 slug @100 yards is 200fps faster than a .44mag at the muzzle. Energy @ 100 yards is double.

Brass is not hard to find, but can be expensive. If you're buying new brass, I prefer Starline. If you're using once fired from hornady 200gr FTX ,check case length as some is shorter and may mean higher pressure when seating a bullet to the cannelure. Pressure rises quickly in the .460 so always start at or just above starting loads and work from there. One does not need to run the .460 "hot'' in order for it to perform well. If you experience sticky extraction, you need to back down. My most accurate loads are usually in the middle of the load range. H110/W296 work well for me as does IMR4227. I actually prefer 4227 in my hunting loads as it is less temperature sensitive as H110/W296 and gives me better consistency when hunting in temps that range from 70 degrees to 10 below. 300 grainers are my favorite bullets and both the Hornady XTP-MAGS(not the standard .45 cal XTPs) and the Speer Deep Curl work well for me. When using jacketed bullets, only use bullets designed for .460 velocities. Do not use .45 caliber jacketed bullets designed for .45LC velocities @ .460 velocities. Premature forcing cone erosion, bullet separation and poor terminal performance can result. If you reload, you do not need the versatility of using three platforms. I load milder loads in .460 brass and thus do not have to worry about the crud ring left by shorter cases. Recoil as compared to a .454 is relative to the firearm. The weight and heft of a Smith X-frame along with the compensator gives less recoil with legitimate .460 loads than a standard Blackhawk chambered in .454.

All in all, the .460 is a hoot to shoot. They are also extremely accurate.

CraigC
March 11, 2012, 12:45 AM
Despite the nay-sayers, there's a big bit of difference between the .460 and the so called "standard magnums".
Which accomplishes what, exactly?

TennJed
March 11, 2012, 03:14 PM
Which accomplishes what, exactly?
Probably accomplishes a bigger boom :). I guess for some it might be similar to cars and motorcycles. I am not a car or motorcycle guy, but i do get a free subscription to Motor Trend. All the articles list top speed; 0-60, 1/4 mile, blah blah blah. Why buy a sports car based on preformance levels you will never need/or use. a car has a top speed of 180 or 200, so what. Ain't nowhere around here that I can drive that fast on anyway.

But some people like that. I got no real use for a 460 other than to just have the experience of shooting and owning one. I have rifles to hunt with, that would not be the purpose of this one. I have guns to conceal, that will not be the purpose of this one.

I like revolvers and sometimes I like loading my 45 colt up to pretty high levels. Sometime I like shooting my Single Six. A 460 is something I am interested in because i think it might fit good with the way I enjoy the hobby of shooting

The Old Redneck
March 11, 2012, 04:29 PM
I have shot and hunted with handguns from the time I was a kid till now. Bought a 45/70 BFR years before the 500 and 460 Smiths. Even bit by that bug for a while. You do not always buy something because you need it. Logic tells you to just load light loads in the longer brass and you will shoot 45's in your 460. Why not it is yours when you pay for it. Put a scope on it and see how far you can reach. Hunters can't stand it and will take some kind of game if they get a chance. I still have my 45/70 BFR, and still get out and throw large chunks of lead with it. At my age I'm more prone to carry and shoot something a lot smaller. You are only going to get older if you live. Old with good memories beats old and regrets. See too many older folks with a bad case of "I wish I had------". I probably did more of those Inspite of logic things than most, but have a lot of good memories. A lot of "Been there and done that's".

CraigC
March 11, 2012, 05:10 PM
Believe me, I'm not trying to pee in anybody's cornflakes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something just because. I love big bore sixguns and can never get enough of them. However, I no longer have a fascination with lots of noise and want my guns, no matter how extravagant, to be practical. Bigger is better but I like to shoot my sixguns a lot and don't like to beat myself up unnecessarily in the process. Bottom line is that you can do everything a sixgun needs to do, including taking the largest game on earth, without the blistering velocity the X-frames deliver. If I need more, I'll go up in bullet weight and/or diameter, not velocity. So for that reason, I have no need for them. If I need more than the .44/.45, I'll go to a .475. For me, a practical .500 is the Linebaugh and JRH, not the S&W. I'll be the last to deny a man his toys but do you see my point?

dirtengineer
March 11, 2012, 06:01 PM
Which accomplishes what, exactly?
Extra velocity gains you flatter shooting and more energy as a poster above states. I could see it as insurance if you are handgun hunting large game such as moose or elk. Needed? Maybe so, maybe not.

I have fire a friend's 460 and found the recoil not terrible - slightly more than my .44 with hot 300 grainers. It was a S&W X frame with 8 3/8" barrel IIRC. I don't remember the specific ammunition.

TennJed
March 11, 2012, 06:35 PM
Believe me, I'm not trying to pee in anybody's cornflakes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something just because. I love big bore sixguns and can never get enough of them. However, I no longer have a fascination with lots of noise and want my guns, no matter how extravagant, to be practical. Bigger is better but I like to shoot my sixguns a lot and don't like to beat myself up unnecessarily in the process. Bottom line is that you can do everything a sixgun needs to do, including taking the largest game on earth, without the blistering velocity the X-frames deliver. If I need more, I'll go up in bullet weight and/or diameter, not velocity. So for that reason, I have no need for them. If I need more than the .44/.45, I'll go to a .475. For me, a practical .500 is the Linebaugh and JRH, not the S&W. I'll be the last to deny a man his toys but do you see my point?
I deffiantely see your point. The main reason I considering a 460 is the interchangle factor of what I have now. Currently have 3 45 colts and reload for them. My father in law has a 454 casull and reloads for it. I could step up to a big, big caliber and still have use of the 45s I shoot now. I can use my FIL press when visiting and not have to buy more stuff for the 454 casull.

You do make some good points and the 475 or 500 would be interesting if I didn't already shoot 45 colts and 454 cassull.

Big JJ
March 11, 2012, 10:53 PM
Looking for a grizzely holster carry gun,
I saw a 5 inch barrel S&W 460V.
Is it the same as the S&W 460XVR that S&W now produces?
Do you guys see any drawbacks to the older 5 inch model.
I don't belive that they make it anymore. I can't find it on the website.
I can only find the longer barrel models on there web site.
The reason I am asking is because I thought it might be a better choice for a holster carry in the mountains.
My other choice would be a 454 casull because I can get it in a short barrel.
What do you guys think?

The Old Redneck
March 12, 2012, 07:31 AM
Craigc, I was not knocking what you are saying, I said that now I shoot the smaller guns more. The bolt action and over 10" barrel single shots do not get a lot of range time revolvers are usually 4 to 6" barrels,Contenders 10". The 454 does not even get the range time it once did. Yet for the guys that have not Been there,done that. they are still a lot of fun. The 475 and 500 were and still are the top of the chain for easy carry handguns. Now my 480 doesn't even get much range time and it is like a 44 special to the 44 mag when you put it next to the 475. This year I didn't kill any deer, last year shot 5, all with 45's and 44's. None with the heavy bullets of years past. So I have full understanding of what you are saying, but also remember the desire to have and shoot the hand cannons.

460Kodiak
March 12, 2012, 09:25 AM
:uhoh: I really wish these threads didn't end up having the "Yeah, but what's the point?" element to them. It happens every time. The point is that the OP wants one because he wants one. I have no use, for a Barrett, but I'd buy one if I had the money. And I love it when I hear someone say "What's the point of one of those hand cannons? I'd use the money to buy a really nice 1911.......... to go with my others. I own 12 of them." What's the point of having a dozen 1911s? The point is the buyer wants them, so do what you like.

Back to the 460 and to the OP. I own a 460V with the 5" bbl, and it is a great gun to shoot. In fact, it is my favorite gun that I own. It is very accurate with all loads out to reasonable iron sights distances. I've shot it out to about 50 yards and it is dead on. The sights are adjustable, so take advantage if you need to. I have no doubt that with a scope, this gun would drop an elk out to 200 yards without any problem, though a lot of practice is obviously needed before that becomes a responsible shot to take.

45 lc feels like shooting 38's out of a full size, 6 inch .357. They are a breeze. The .454 Casull is obviously quite a bit more powerfull and loud, but since you have shot those, I'll leave it at that. I'd say that the recoil and noise created by the full power 460 rounds is about 20% more in both regards. I suspect that if this was the 8 and 3/8ths inch bbl, the increase in percieved recoil would be less discernable. You would maybe feel a 10% increase in percieved recoil. Also, since the 460 was originally designed for the 8" bbl, I undoubtedly have some reduction in performance going on, and there is a fair amount of powder that is not burning in the gun. With the Hornady 200gr. cartridge I can see basket ball size fire ball shoot out of the end of the gun in full sunlight. I really want to go out at dusk and try to capture the flash.

The Hogue mono grip does a great job of taiming the recoil. I find the .454 and 460's to be a bit painful to shoot, but I have very little meat on my hands. I'm a big guy but pretty lean, so my hands are rather boney. If you have meatier hands than I, you won't be bothered by it at all.

The bottom line is that 460's are just plain fun, but very expensive to shoot. The fact that you reload will help a lot, and this cartridge is what makes me want to get into reloading to begin with. If you like shooting a .454, then I'd say you would enjoy the 460 a great deal as well. I don't know how it compares to the 500, as I've not shot one.

Bigjj, I own a 460V and it is fantastic for hiking in Grizzly country. In fact, that is why I bought the gun to begin with. I carry it in a Desantes hip holster and it is comfortable. Keep in mind though that the gun still weighs just shy of 4 lbs, so your hip gets a little sore at the end of the day if you are lean, and you better have a good belt or your pants will be around your ankles. I chose this one because it will give you more power and control than say, a Ruger Alaskan. It is great fun to shoot. The one thing I'd caution you on though is that if you are packing this gun for bear defense, you had better have some really good sound dampening earmuffs very accessible. If you blow off a full power round without hearing protection, I have no doubt that you are going to do very severe and permanent hearing damage. I know, better deaf than dead, right? I agree with this, but if you need to take more than one shot, and you probably would, your hearing will be gone.

Now the bad news for you. No, they do not make this model anymore and they are getting harder to find. I like mine so much that I wouldn't mind picking up another one, but due to the price, this is unlikely. I paid $1025 for mine NIB in 2008. Yesterday I saw a bid on gunbroker for one at $1500, and that didn't meet the reserve. There is another one NIB and the minimum bid is $1999. I can't believe the increase in price on this model gun. I don't know if it's just because they are discontinued, or because people now realize what a great versatile gun this model is. If you see one in good shape used for $1000 or less, I'd snatch it up. That's just my though.

I hope this was helpfu to you both.

Loosedhorse
March 12, 2012, 09:59 AM
Do you guys see any drawbacks to the older 5 inch model.Absolutely none--just the opposite, that barrel length's my favorite. Because of the longer, heavier cylinder compared to N frames/Redhawks, it will handle like a 6- or 7-inch-barreled gun.

Smith did have a recall involving .460s. I think some barrels were poorly made and/or fitted incorrectly. Mine was in the recall, so I sent it in, they "tested it", and sent it back with a little mark on it. On their dime, fast turn-around. No problems with it at all...

Except for the crowd it draws on the range after I start shooting. Literal 3.5-4 ft muzzle fireball; some day I'll see if I can light a cigar. ;)

Some folks go "Oh, wow!" , and some shake their heads disapprovingly...and then ask to try it. :)

303tom
March 12, 2012, 10:23 AM
I have a friend who has a BFR in .450 Marlin & I have one in .45-70.............

460Kodiak
March 12, 2012, 12:38 PM
Smith did have a recall involving .460s. I think some barrels were poorly made and/or fitted incorrectly. Mine was in the recall, so I sent it in, they "tested it", and sent it back with a little mark on it. On their dime, fast turn-around. No problems with it at all...


If memory serves, I believe the recall was due to the wrong rifling being used on some barrels. The .460 uses gain twist riffling to stabilize the heavy bullets at high velocities. I heard that a bunch of 460's went out without the gain twist. I can't remember what the inappropriate twist rate was that got used though. Obviously this would lead to unstablized bullets and poor accuracy.

Because of the longer, heavier cylinder compared to N frames/Redhawks, it will handle like a 6- or 7-inch-barreled gun.


Exactly. The 460V is heavy, but very well balanced. It makes accurate one handed shooting very dooable with this gun. Though shooting a full power load one handed leaves the gun pointing at about 60 degrees from the horizontal after the shot. You really need to make sure you have a firm grasp on the gun to do this.

Also, if shooting single action, watch your trigger finger. Mine has a hair trigger in SA, which makes sense since these guns were designed to hunt with. Helps eliminate flinch

dirtengineer
March 12, 2012, 11:41 PM
I wonder if the performance center would make a 5" barreled version and what it would cost.

CGT80
March 13, 2012, 12:02 AM
If you already load for 45lc and 454 then the 460 is a no-brainer. It will fit right in with your collection. I just bought a smith xvr 460 8 3/8" as my first revolver. I wanted something big, but I wanted to be able to easily download it, and I already had some 45lc brass and bullets with no gun to use them in. The 500 would require less common bullets. 45lc bullets are popular and 45 acp bullets are everywhere. I ran some 45 acp (.452) 200 grain round nose molly coated lead bullets through my 460 with light loads of powder. They did very well for a plinking load. Any woman could shoot them as long as she could hold up the heavy revolver, and they were cheap to load. I wouldn't have bought the 460 if I couldn't load some inexpensive lighter loads. I can still shoot the hot loads any time I want for a little more.

My hot load was a hornady 240 grain xtp mag bullet over 45 grains of win296/h-110 in 460 starline brass and large magnum rifle primers. My cost was $0.70 per round. The velocity was 19xx fps over my chrono. The cheapest midway ammo was $25 per 20 and the local shop wanted $65 per 20 for a similar hornady round.

I absolutely love the trigger and fit and finish on my 460 also, even the grip is awesome. It is a great all around hand cannon. The only draw back to the 460 vs. other guns is the weight, but then again what other revolver puts a 250grain bullet down the tube at 1000+ fps with recoil that is almost non-existent?

Saskquatchewan
April 28, 2012, 03:00 PM
TennJed,
I agree with EVERYTHING that 460Kodiak has to say. Myself, I also own a 460V and it is very accurate and fun to shoot due to the balanced shorter barrel. Provided you don't have a *death grip* on it anyone big or small can shoot it comfortably all day (let it recoil just hang on).

It is a real show stopper for sure however anything less than adequate hearing protection will leave you death.

Buying ammo is a concern (especially here in canada) as the retail price is over $60 for a box of 20 - if one can even find it here a box is pretty rare. I'm starting to wonder if I am the only one north of the border who owns a hand cannon as such. I reload personally for it and dont seem to have too much trouble finding the components. H110 powder 46gr, Hornady 240gr XTP MAG, and Starline brass with large rifle magnum primers, all according to hornady reload data puts me less than $1 dollar per round.

I also shoot 45 colt in it as well, my rifle is a Henry Big Boy which I reload 45 colt 300gr to a Mid range level (Ruger only reload data). Shooting these through the 460v is also an enjoyable PLINKING round comparable to a 38. I,m not sure if this particular model is discontinued by S&W (rhumers) but I only purchased it less than a year ago. To get a handgun of this caliber in Canada relatively easy shouldnt be a problem down there. As far as 454 casull rounds I have no use for them, seeing as I have already in use a semi hot rodded 45 colt. Good luck with your choice.

Coal Dragger
April 28, 2012, 03:31 PM
Let's see, weighs pretty much as much as a carbine, nearly as big as a carbine. So why not just buy a carbine? At least then you'll get a stock too, since it appears that S&W forgot to add one.

Hotshot10
April 28, 2012, 06:35 PM
Loosedhorse, what model is that .460? I searched on Smith's web site and got nada.

roger460xvr
April 29, 2012, 02:03 PM
I think i'll go out and buy another one for the HELL of it.....LOVE THEM 460xvrs..............:neener:

AABEN
April 29, 2012, 04:55 PM
They are no trouble to reload and no trouble getting bullets!

460Kodiak
April 30, 2012, 02:09 PM
I screwed up. Deleted

roger460xvr
April 30, 2012, 09:04 PM
Here;s my big baby........

Loosedhorse
April 30, 2012, 10:28 PM
Loosedhorse, what model is that .460? I searched on Smith's web site and got nada. The gun I posted a picture of in post #5 is a S&W "exclusive" made for Lew Horton Distributing Co. Inc.

It was specified as a PC M460 3.5" Comp, part #S&W170268FC. As you have discovered, they are no longer made, and hard to find.

Link (http://www.lewhorton.com/PCGUNS.html).

TennJed
April 30, 2012, 10:53 PM
Let's see, weighs pretty much as much as a carbine, nearly as big as a carbine. So why not just buy a carbine? At least then you'll get a stock too, since it appears that S&W forgot to add one.


Because this is the revolver forum

Thanks for all (most) of the info guys. This is why I love this forum. Very helpful

jamesb
May 1, 2012, 03:35 PM
I had one, 460XVR, and like you I was really attracted to being able to shoot 3 calibers, I already shoot alot of 45 colt. I really liked the idea of the gun and was very excited to get it. Then I shot it. I could never get it to group well at 100 yards with the hornady 460s. Probly most of the problem is my lack of skill shooting revolvers. It was scoped and I had planned on using to hunt with. The recoil was too much on my wrist and I developed a bad flinch. I was very heavy and not well balanced withteh 8 and 3/4 barrel. I think the 5 inch would of been better for handling, thats what I originally wanted but the shop had the longer barrel in stock and I bought it on an impulse. It was a dream to 45 colt through, like alomost shooting a 22 but again I just found it too unwieldly since have other 45 colts.

Loading for it seemed easy enough, I got all the stuff ot reload for it but never got that far. Cases were a bit exspensive and a little hard to come buy but you can just buy some factory ammo and reload those. Lots of bullet choices.

I ended up trading the gun but I picked up a 460 barrel for my encore so I still shoot the round. I find it more fun out of the carbine.

Jaxondog
May 1, 2012, 04:28 PM
I love mine and yes I have some smaller one's http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p633/jaxondog102/Phttp://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p633/jaxondog102/Gunsandthings020.jpgicture098.jpgalso.

Jaxondog
May 1, 2012, 04:29 PM
oop's, sorry don't know why no pihttp://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p633/jaxondog102/Gunsandthings022.jpgc's.http://i1159.photobucket.com/albums/p633/jaxondog102/Picture098.jpg

dholla
May 1, 2012, 04:50 PM
Pick one anyone. With factory Hornady FTX I can squeeze 1moa at 100yds from a sandbag with the 10". My dad shoots the 12".

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/14/85/30/18/img_0411.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=172&u=14853018)

OldCavSoldier
May 2, 2012, 12:58 AM
The .460 that I shot a year or so ago was a PEE-BRINGER!!! Fun but not a lot of fun.

Fishslayer
May 3, 2012, 12:47 AM
Believe me, I'm not trying to pee in anybody's cornflakes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something just because. I love big bore sixguns and can never get enough of them. However, I no longer have a fascination with lots of noise and want my guns, no matter how extravagant, to be practical. Bigger is better but I like to shoot my sixguns a lot and don't like to beat myself up unnecessarily in the process. Bottom line is that you can do everything a sixgun needs to do, including taking the largest game on earth, without the blistering velocity the X-frames deliver. If I need more, I'll go up in bullet weight and/or diameter, not velocity. So for that reason, I have no need for them. If I need more than the .44/.45, I'll go to a .475. For me, a practical .500 is the Linebaugh and JRH, not the S&W. I'll be the last to deny a man his toys but do you see my point?

Mighta missed the post stating the reason...

"For the heck of it.":D

I "get it" completely. ;)

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