Anyone seen a nagant revolver like this, what do I have?


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roccoracer
March 10, 2012, 06:39 PM
I picked this up yesterday and cannot find any information on it. The nickle plating is original (verified by a proffesional) And on the side plate it does not have the arsenal stamp or year or manufacture. It also has a plaque on the grip with some russian writing. Thank you for looking.
http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c3aa-e5e8-5d54.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c3aa-e602-1324.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c3aa-e61c-e4dc.jpg

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TurtlePhish
March 10, 2012, 06:42 PM
It looks like some commemorative piece or something that'd get given to an officer or something. Never seen anything like it...

Probably worth a pretty penny.

roccoracer
March 10, 2012, 07:16 PM
It looks like some commemorative piece or something that'd get given to an officer or something. Never seen anything like it...

Probably worth a pretty penny.

I cant find the mark thats on the side plate anywhere. Ive searched using every phrase I can think of online and no luck.
Can anyone translate the wrighting on the grip?

Thanks, Scott.

rcmodel
March 10, 2012, 07:21 PM
Gonna have to have a better photo then that to read it, let alone translate it.

rc

MikeJackmin
March 10, 2012, 08:00 PM
Here's a (slightly) better view:

http://www.ffmmov.com/blog/zzz3.jpg

The circular emblem looks like a hammer and sickle on a globe, surrounded by wheat sheaves, over a field, or perhaps a sunrise?

Do you have a flatbed scanner? Just lay the gun on the scanner and run it like you're scanning a sheet of paper, it usually works quite well.

EVIL
March 10, 2012, 08:05 PM
I don't know but that sure is a cool piece of history! I'd hang on to it.

parsimonious_instead
March 10, 2012, 08:12 PM
Here's a (slightly) better view:





Do you have a flatbed scanner? Just lay the gun on the scanner and run it like you're scanning a sheet of paper, it usually works quite well.

Wouldn't it be cool if after making the scan, we could just make endless extra copies? :)

USSR
March 10, 2012, 08:29 PM
Looks like it might be an Honorary Presentation Weapon from the early years (1920's) of the Soviet Union. Your scans are terrible, so I can't make out the writing, but it does appear to be Cyrillic.

Don

wkumatt
March 10, 2012, 08:41 PM
I've got someone who could translate if you can get a readable pic. Maybe hit it with a little talc to make the letters stand out.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk

runes
March 10, 2012, 09:03 PM
What a great find. I never saw one quite like that.
My Nagant came out of the Tula factory in 1930 and I love the quirky little thing.
If you have a lathe .223s cut down and sized in .30 carbine dies will give cheap brass.
You will have to turn a small portion down near the base but it leaves a rim that works fine.

roccoracer
March 10, 2012, 09:12 PM
Looks like it might be an Honorary Presentation Weapon from the early years (1920's) of the Soviet Union. Your scans are terrible, so I can't make out the writing, but it does appear to be Cyrillic.

Don

Here is a picture of what the lettering is and a better picture of the plaque. http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c3aa-09d9-63e4.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c3aa-09ff-3dc8.jpg

ArchAngelCD
March 10, 2012, 10:00 PM
Wow, that is very different. I think you have a rare find there. Like said above, it is probably a presentation piece which means it could be one of a kind or one of very few.

Buford57
March 10, 2012, 10:25 PM
CCCP = USSR

November 15, 1939


Now somebody who can really read Russian please do the rest.

Mizar
March 11, 2012, 04:18 AM
Hello. The marking on the side plate is the USSR coat of arms. As for the plate - your version of it doesn't make any sense - sorry. You mixed Cyrillic with English letters. I can translate the text, but for that I will need a bigger and more contrast picture. As for "PBC CCCP" - it may stand for Revolutionary Military Council of USSR, but the RMC was dissolved in 1934. This revolver is a reward weapon, not a presentation piece and might have some significant value.

Boris

KodiakBeer
March 11, 2012, 07:10 AM
My wife is Russian. She can make little sense of the photo or transcription - you've got most of the cyrillic letters wrong.

But it's..

1st line: Tovarisch (comrade) (abbreviated form) followed probably by a name. If you could transcribe the letters accurately or get a better photo, she could ID the name.

2nd line: To "an organization..." she can't make out what organization because again, the letters are transcribed poorly.

3rd line: Revolutionary Military Council of the USSR.

4th line: K. E. Voroshilov

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliment_Voroshilov

The linked Wiki article has the name as K Y Voroshilov, but in Russian the middle name Yefremovich is spelled with an E and he was the chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council.

Edited to add: Maybe just use some white crayon to bring out the lettering? The wife says you'll never get the transcription correct because it's in script rather than block letters.

ultradoc
March 11, 2012, 07:52 AM
can't wait to get all of the info on this. seems to have everyone stummped.

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 08:26 AM
I will work on getting a better picture today. Thank you for all the help.

Navy_Guns
March 11, 2012, 10:22 AM
meanwhile, what's the story on how you got the thing?

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 10:26 AM
meanwhile, what's the story on how you got the thing?

It was a gift from a friend who owns a gun store. He said in 40+ years he had never seen one like it. He thought it would be a nice piece for my collection.

galena
March 11, 2012, 11:17 AM
Neat old gun. I hope you can get a good translation of the inscriptions. I could use a friend like yours who owns a gun store! Keep shootin'

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 11:36 AM
Is this better? I am working on some hd pictures to post. http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-c66c-cc0c.jpg

armoredman
March 11, 2012, 12:37 PM
Fascinating. Even if it had zero collector value, that is really nifty. Just as interesting would be the story of how such an unusual firearm came to your location in all these years, war trophy, smuggled with an immigrant, interesting.

Mizar
March 11, 2012, 02:46 PM
KodiakBeer got most of it translated. The text translate to English as follows:

comrade Navrodski
from People's Commissar for Military and Naval Affairs
and the chairmen of the Revolutionary Military Council of USSR
Kliment Yefremovich Voroshilov

tov/arish/ Navrodskamu
ot Narkomvoenmora
i pred/sedateliam/ RVS SSSR
K. E. Voroshilova

It seems that you have some quite interesting and rare revolver, given by a very famous and of high rank Russian official. Congratulations.

Boris

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 03:47 PM
Here are some good pictures.http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-00f0-963f.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-0109-1cb5.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-011a-cb82.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-012d-4c31.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-0140-ea82.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c074-0164-8631.jpg

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 03:53 PM
Do you think this has any real value? I am not selling but more for insurance purposes.
Thank you

Bojangles7
March 11, 2012, 04:13 PM
It's amazing how something like this ends up in the hands of someone in MA.

Mizar
March 11, 2012, 04:15 PM
You have a gun, given (and signed) by the defense minister and marshal of the Soviet Union at that time - Just Google the name of Kliment Voroshilov. It is a quite rare piece, but I'm not an appraiser so I can't give you any dollar value.

Boris

outerlimit
March 11, 2012, 06:15 PM
Wow, what an interesting thread. Very cool Nagant!!!!

amazing how something like this ends up in the hands of someone in MA.

LoL, yes. Ironic, but stuff like this seems to happen more often than most people think. They're finding European spearheads in the Americas now that date from 25,000 years ago, nothing is as it seems or goes the way you think. It seems like that more and more everyday. A guy in MA with a special reward pistol given by a high ranking Soviet official, interesting stuff.

Gordon
March 11, 2012, 06:20 PM
I'd say at least $1k auction value. Boy that would have been a get out of Siberia card for sure during the Stalin horrors!

KodiakBeer
March 11, 2012, 06:26 PM
That's interesting. The Polish summer campaign had ended and the Finnish Winter War was just beginning. I'd suspect that this Navrodski/Navrotski/Navrodsky/Navrotsky had something to do with those campaigns.

Also, there was a famous Russian chess master at that time named Navrotsky, though it's hard to imagine why he'd be given a Nagant by Voroshilov. Perhaps there was a chess tournament to entertain the troops or something like that? Chess is important to Russians.

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 09:50 PM
Navrodski was a major in the Russian army.

armoredman
March 11, 2012, 09:55 PM
Looted by a German then captured by an American later in the war?

roccoracer
March 11, 2012, 10:10 PM
Looted by a German then captured by an American later in the war?

Maybe, it doesnt have import marks on it.

sub-moa
March 11, 2012, 10:17 PM
"Looted by a German then captured by an American later in the war?"

Interesting phraseology :scrutiny:;)

armoredman
March 11, 2012, 11:03 PM
Winner write the history, doncha know. ;)

sub-moa
March 11, 2012, 11:12 PM
Touche ;):D...

roccoracer
March 12, 2012, 06:15 AM
Does anyone know of an avid collector of the nagant's or some sort of expert of them. I would like to get an estimated value.
Thank you
Scott

Onmilo
March 12, 2012, 08:57 AM
Navrodski probably emigrated to the USA post WW2 and brought the revolver with him.
Stalin did pre war and post war purges of the Officer Corps in Soviet Union and the wisest and smartest exited stage left as quickly as they could.,

A surviving member of his family probably sold the revolver off after his death.

Actual value would be determined by the interest of a collector of Soviet era Militaria.

I would place an insurance value of $1000 on that revolver and a minimum opening bid of $750 if the gun was offered at auction. HTH

Radagast
March 12, 2012, 09:10 AM
Try here: http://forums.gunboards.com/
It s a set of more specialised forums for collectors of military weapons.

gotboostvr
March 12, 2012, 05:49 PM
I wish I had something to contribute to this thread.

I subscribed and am waiting with extreme curiosity with regards to how it turns out. Keep us posted with any news if you can, that's a very cool and unique firearm you have!

KodiakBeer
March 12, 2012, 06:24 PM
P. A. Navrotsky was a Soviet cavalry officer who was lauded for helping to organize the Mongolian army which fought with the Soviets against the Japanese in 1939. In 1939, those military advisers like Navrotsky were recalled back to Russia for the Winter War.

The timing is perfect since the award on the pistol is dated November, 1939.

I suspect this is your Navrotsky.

roccoracer
March 12, 2012, 06:37 PM
Well I found out this pistol (according to the pictures I sent) is authentic. There are six others of these pistols known but all are in russian museums. I am now trying to get an appraisal.

armoredman
March 12, 2012, 09:49 PM
That's cool - wonder if the Russian Federation wants it back for the collection.

sub-moa
March 12, 2012, 10:02 PM
Very cool indeed...

bannockburn
March 12, 2012, 10:44 PM
roccoracer

Definitely an interesting piece of history. Would love to know how it made its way to Massachusetts as well. Sounds like something that might have turned up on the "Antiques Roadshow". Thanks for sharing it with us.

roccoracer
March 12, 2012, 11:01 PM
Thank you. I am very excited about this revolver, it sure is an attractive piece. Now I really want to find a profesional to appraise it. Does anyone have a sugestion of who could?

Jim NE
March 12, 2012, 11:10 PM
Probably the most historically interesting thing I've seen so far on THR. Thanks for posting!

InfamousLegend
March 12, 2012, 11:41 PM
If you find the value please post it on THR, I am very interested to find out its value.

armoredman
March 13, 2012, 12:18 AM
Contact the NRA, they'd probably love to do it, especially if you'll let them do a video segment on it.

19-3Ben
March 13, 2012, 10:01 AM
Now I really want to find a profesional to appraise it. Does anyone have a sugestion of who could?

Anyone who's ever watched Pawn Stars knows that you have to call Sean. Duh!!!:D

roccoracer
March 13, 2012, 10:22 AM
Ive contacted the NRA. I hope they are interested in featuring it in American rifleman or one of there many publications or t.v shows. It would be nice if they could give me an accurate appraisal. It is awesome that all this hunting I have been doing for unique milsurp stuff may have paid off.

Happy milsurp collector here!

Salmoneye
March 13, 2012, 11:49 AM
Watching with interest...

Please keep us posted...

ojh
March 13, 2012, 04:46 PM
I have a book "Soviet Small-Arms and Ammunition", written by D.N. Bolotin, and it has a picture of a similar arm, including the coat of arms on the sideplate, blued frontsight and darker than usual grips, but without the plaque on the grip. The picture is titled "Nickle plated presentational award Nagant revolver", and the text says "[...] from 1918 until 1930, a presentation sabre and a revolver with the insignia of the Order of the Red Banner let into its grip were the ultimate rewards for commanding officers in the field."

Congratulations, now go and find the sabre too!

USSR
March 13, 2012, 05:28 PM
Since we are talking Soviet Militaria, shameless plug:

http://ussr.clarityconnect.com

Don

roccoracer
March 15, 2012, 10:14 PM
Here are more pictures.
http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c012-a164-09c1.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c012-a18e-14fd.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c012-a19f-9f9f.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c012-a1cd-5fde.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c012-a1e1-0b1d.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4c012-a1fd-430b.jpg


Thank you for looking
Scott

Cocked & Locked
March 15, 2012, 10:42 PM
That's a nice little Russian revolver. The KGB might just come after it.

Oh yeah, KGB doesn't exist anymore. :scrutiny:.

dcarch
March 15, 2012, 10:45 PM
That's incredible. As a history major, this has me extremely excited.
Congratulations, sir.

roccoracer
March 16, 2012, 12:28 PM
Im still trying to get an appraisal.


Thank you for looking
Scott

19-3Ben
March 23, 2012, 09:58 PM
Bumping to the front page. It's been a few days.

BCRider
March 24, 2012, 12:09 AM
The connections this brings up are amazing. A great piece of history that shows how small and delicate our world really is that something like this can show up half a world away.

This sort of find isn't your commonplace antique Shaker chamberpot. While there are likely a few hundred around they are scattered around the world with most of them in Russia. Likely you'll need some patience and need to get more than a couple of varying apraisals to get any idea of what something like this is worth.

In your last set of pictures the big fat screw head at the top of the grips just below the hammer sure doesn't look like it is an original part. It may be worth shopping around to see what it SHOULD look like and replace the screw with a proper part. On the other hand if it was a field repair by Navrodski then it may be worth keeping it as it sits now.

bluethunder1962
March 24, 2012, 12:19 AM
for insurance reasons. I will give you $20000. Tell them you had a offer of 20000. Just don't tell them I will be signing over 20000 of my debt. No really it is a cool gun. I wish I had friends give me stuff like that.

Norom
March 24, 2012, 12:29 AM
What type of ammo does it shoot?

BCRider
March 24, 2012, 12:36 AM
Norom, I'd be very surprised if it shot anything other than the proper .762 Nagant round. Wiki it if you've never heard of the stuff.

A very odd revolver. To my knowledge the only widely produced model that ever used the self sealing cylinder gap style of operation.

toivo
March 24, 2012, 12:46 AM
Norom, I'd be very surprised if it shot anything other than the proper .762 Nagant round.

7.62 Nagant (7.62x38MM).

Nagant revolvers will also shoot .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum, although it won't gas-seal properly with those, and it may split cases. I would not -- repeat NOT -- shoot those in your gun, and I probably wouldn't shoot it at all if I were you. But I'm not you, so do what you want. ;) (You can get a Nagant for $99 from J&G if you want a shooter.)

Have I mentioned that that's one of the coolest firearms I've seen in a long, long, long time? If it's a Winter War era piece, it's doubly interesting to me, since I had relatives on the other side of that conflict.

roccoracer
March 24, 2012, 11:20 PM
I will not be shooting this revolver. I just take it out and stare at it.


Thank you for looking
Scott

PabloJ
March 24, 2012, 11:34 PM
I will not be shooting this revolver. I just take it out and stare at it.


Thank you for looking
Scott
That is very special weapon and you should cherish it. The original owner was probably shot in back of the head by NKVD or sent to camp east of the Urals. You know the usual gesture of appreciation from Uncle Joe for job well done for Mother Russia.

roccoracer
March 29, 2012, 10:33 AM
I recieved a response from the appraiser. It is his opinion that it should be valued at between $5k and $7500. And it is possible it could go for more at a live auction with documentation.


Thank you for looking
Scott

dcarch
March 29, 2012, 10:56 AM
That's amazing. Congratulations, sir. I would hang onto that gun, just for the sheer history of it.

Salmoneye
March 29, 2012, 12:14 PM
Wow...

Dunno what you paid (don't care), but nice appraisal...

Congrats again!

roccoracer
March 29, 2012, 12:28 PM
Can someone tell me how to take the side plate off. I want to make sure the serial number matches and I dont want to damage it.


Thank you for looking
Scott

roccoracer
March 29, 2012, 10:40 PM
I took the side plate off and it has a matching serial number.


Thank you for looking
Scott

19-3Ben
March 29, 2012, 10:43 PM
Very very cool. I am so glad that you posted this thread.

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