Assistance- Opinions on folding knife


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rhtwist
March 11, 2012, 06:17 PM
Hello,
I have a Kershaw Blur, which I like a lot. What I don't like it the liner lock. Does anyone know of an assisted opener of the Blur's quality that has a stronger locking system. Thanks
rhtwist

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hso
March 11, 2012, 06:20 PM
Look at Benchmade.

rhtwist
March 11, 2012, 06:45 PM
Hello hso,
I was becoming aware of the Benchmade griptilian. But am unsure from the descriptions on how it works. It is assisted opening and am I right in guessing that button in the slot is a bar that locks into the back of the blade, making it lock open. The button must be pulled back to allow the folding of the blade. Any clarification or opinions are appreciated!
rhtwist

glistam
March 11, 2012, 09:11 PM
The Griptillian isn't an assisted opener. The lock is called an Axis lock and you maneuver it in it's slot to unlock the blade in order to close. The lock can also be manipulated while closed to both ease opening and nudge the blade out a just a bit.

If you want an AO though, there is also the SOG trident. It has a lock very similar to an Axis lock (though crescent) and a secondary lock to keeps the blade from opening.

rhtwist
March 11, 2012, 09:26 PM
Hello glistam,
Thanks for you reply Sir! I had though the Griptilian was AO. Good to know. I will take a look at the SOG. What is your preference?
Cheers
rhtwist

Jason_G
March 11, 2012, 09:26 PM
The Benchmades with the Axis lock will be as quick and easy to open, and even quicker/easier to close, with one hand, as any assisted opener/automatic opener. Just slide the lock back, flick open/flick closed.

The Axis lock is the best mechanism I've ever seen for one handed operation of a folder.

Jason

rhtwist
March 11, 2012, 09:28 PM
Howdy Jason,
Thanks for weighing in on that design. I kinda wondered how it worked. Maybe find a youtube video of it being used. Thanks, I'll still keep it in mind!
Glenn

rhtwist
March 11, 2012, 10:16 PM
Watched some videos on the differening knives suggested, all seem to have positives and possible negatives. Real world experience is not available on you tube. The griptilian seems to be fairly heavy duty and expensive. The SOG has no metallic liner and was considered weak. The blur which strangely is one of the lesser expensive knives is weak in the liner lock. Again, all read. The Cold Steel has a line of knives called FAST. Assisted opening and a none described lock. I am wondering how strong it is.
Any and all opinions and experience welcome!
rhtwist

Valkman
March 11, 2012, 10:31 PM
I just got a Griptilian yesterday, you probably saw my thread "Griptilian Goodness". The AXIS lock was a bit stiff at first but now the knife flys open and closed by just pulling back on the lock and flicking it open - same to close it. Very easy to use, and overall a great knife.

rhtwist
March 11, 2012, 10:55 PM
I just got a Griptilian yesterday, you probably saw my thread "Griptilian Goodness". The AXIS lock was a bit stiff at first but now the knife flys open and closed by just pulling back on the lock and flicking it open - same to close it. Very easy to use, and overall a great knife.
Hello Valkman, thanks for your response. I consider that model a great candidate, but at least from my knowledge and experience, I prefer the AO design. Unfortunately you can't rent them. I've looked at some youtube videos and they mentioned that the flick needs to work itself in a bit. Also the price seems a bit expensive, although it may be worth it. I like the knowledge that the knife will open without any special techniques or practice. The Gerber fast system looks good, but I don't think I like the quality or blade size. How hard is it to learn the flick?
Cheers
rhtwist

hso
March 12, 2012, 12:04 AM
Not the Griptilian, it is only available as a full manual opener.

The Osborne and other AO Benchmades are available. Just look through the assisted opening Benchmades and pick what you like. http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_list.aspx?keyword=assist

Valkman
March 12, 2012, 12:43 AM
How hard is it to learn the flick?


About 10 seconds - it's very easy.

hso
March 12, 2012, 12:47 AM
Don, for you and me maybe, but there are people that would surprise you that I've worked with to describe how to get a folder open with a flick of the wrist and who had so much trouble it was easier just to tell them to use the thumb stud/disk.

JShirley
March 12, 2012, 04:43 AM
Not an assisted opener, but I got (and promptly gave away) a HK Soldat a few days ago. It's a Benchmade, and while unlined, it is made in the US, and seemed high quality. Looked like quite a bargain for $50.

John

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 07:54 AM
Thanks hso! The 580BK looks good. Wish it was a 3.5" or a hair under. Looks like a keeper!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 07:57 AM
Thank you Valkman, but I've seen the 580 series which seems to have all the features I need. Watched a video on a gut hacking a tree using another branch as a hammer. The Griptilian sure seemed to hold up well.
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 08:00 AM
Howdy,
Looks like I'm finding more and more knives with the characteristics I want. Really like the blurs ao. That would be perfect except for the liner lock. This forums members have shown patience and diversity. That is helpful.
Thanks
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 08:36 AM
Does anyone have any opinions on the SOG Flash II. It seems comparable to the 580, with the </= 3.5" blade?
Glenn

Pilot
March 12, 2012, 08:41 AM
Consider a Spyderco Manix II, Benchmade Griptilian or 940 Osborne, and maybe look at others in the Kershaw/Zero Tolerance line.

I don't know how much you want to spend but the ZT 0550/0551 (Titanium framelock) is a very tough, nice folder that is easy to carry. I have an 0551, and it has been my EDC for a while now, knocking out my Benchmades.

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 09:10 AM
Consider a Spyderco Manix II, Benchmade Griptilian or 940 Osborne, and maybe look at others in the Kershaw/Zero Tolerance line.

I don't know how much you want to spend but the ZT 0550/0551 (Titanium framelock) is a very tough, nice folder that is easy to carry. I have an 0551, and it has been my EDC for a while now, knocking out my Benchmades.
Howdy Pilot,
Thanks for your response and suggestions. I saw the ZT line and liked it but isn't it just a heavier duty liner lock and fairly expensive? The griptilian seems to me to be outshined by the 580 AO with the Axis lock. I will certainly look at the spyderco and the 940 Osborne.
Appreciate your opinion and time
rhtwist

JShirley
March 12, 2012, 10:53 AM
Along the lines of the Manix 2, the Translucent Manix 2 is a great knife. With a mild bit of practice, it's as fast as an assisted opener. It's also very strong but lightweight.

John

mdauben
March 12, 2012, 10:56 AM
I'm very partial to the Spyderco Delica and Endura. Solid lock-backs. They are not "assisted opening" but they are one-hand opening, which IMO is just as good, if not better.

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 11:51 AM
Hello,
I have used all sorts of knives over the decades the last before the blur was a CRKT M16 style. Once I got the Blur, it was night and day for me. So I am kinda stuck on the AO style. I could open those old bucklites with one hand, quite quickly. I appreciate all this information.
The SOG Flash II seems good, want to see one first as is, on paper the 580BK.
I even like the Zero tolerance knives. But I don't want to spend a ton (for me) of money.
The SOG is like $42.
Any solid dealers with good prices and return policies that can be recommended, if it is not an infringement of the forums policy?
Open to all opinions, but don't want to rile anybody up. Thanks so far for everyone's helpful suggestions!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 11:53 AM
Howdy Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with me. Mighty kind! Still leaning AO though.
rhtwist

grayhambone
March 12, 2012, 12:21 PM
cold steel recon
cheap awesome

mdauben
March 12, 2012, 01:13 PM
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with me. Mighty kind! Still leaning AO though.
I've only got a couple AO knives, but my favorite is probably the Kershaw Leek. Its not a lock-back, but it's got what appears to be a very strong frame lock. Its available in different edges and different steels, but my favorite is the plain edge, "composite" blade (CPM-D2 edge):

http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/kershaw/images/1660CB.jpg

I've never handled the Kershaw Blur though, so I'm not sure if the locking mechanism is actually stronger or not. Just another idea to consider.

Pilot
March 12, 2012, 01:26 PM
I saw the ZT line and liked it but isn't it just a heavier duty liner lock and fairly expensive?


Howdy back atcha! The Zero Tolerance line, while owned by Kershaw is a completely different line of knives that bear no resemblance to the Kershaws. The ZT 0550 is a titanium FRAME lock, not a liner lock. It is a VERY strong, rugged knife. Yes, they are more expensive, the 0550 is priced around $200, but well worth it as it approaches customs that are much more expensive. I can understand though if you don't want to spend that much. That is a lot of money for a knife. If you want something larger and even more "tank like" the ZT0300 series is fantastic, but they are even more expensive at about $275, and they are assisted opening, unlike the 0550 whcih is not.

I have the Spyderco Manix II, and Benchmade Griptilian. I like the Spyderco a little better due to the G10 scales, and overall build quality. I think you can get either for well under $100. I don't know much about the 580.

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 01:35 PM
cold steel recon
cheap awesome
Thanks, looks fairly awesome and big. Wanted a smaller blade. And the new version is just a lock back.
Cheers

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 01:36 PM
I've only got a couple AO knives, but my favorite is probably the Kershaw Leek. Its not a lock-back, but it's got what appears to be a very strong frame lock. Its available in different edges and different steels, but my favorite is the plain edge, "composite" blade (CPM-D2 edge):

http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/kershaw/images/1660CB.jpg

I've never handled the Kershaw Blur though, so I'm not sure if the locking mechanism is actually stronger or not. Just another idea to consider.
I'll take a look, like to see the blade length and locking mechanism! Thanks!

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 01:42 PM
Howdy back atcha! The Zero Tolerance line, while owned by Kershaw is a completely different line of knives that bear no resemblance to the Kershaws. The ZT 0550 is a titanium FRAME lock, not a liner lock. It is a VERY strong, rugged knife. Yes, they are more expensive, the 0550 is priced around $200, but well worth it as it approaches customs that are much more expensive. I can understand though if you don't want to spend that much. That is a lot of money for a knife. If you want something larger and even more "tank like" the ZT0300 series is fantastic, but they are even more expensive at about $275, and they are assisted opening, unlike the 0550 whcih is not.

I have the Spyderco Manix II, and Benchmade Griptilian. I like the Spyderco a little better due to the G10 scales, and overall build quality. I think you can get either for well under $100. I don't know much about the 580.
Howdy Pilot,
A question as to terminology and actual difference. I looked it over and see that the side of the frame bends in like a liner lock. Is the obvious thickness and contact area enough to make a difference? I am starting to get the names and brands mixed up, but the one that is like a griptilian with AO, and the SOG Flash II appear to be lesser expensive alternates. Still listening though! Much appreciated!
rhtwist

ArfinGreebly
March 12, 2012, 03:03 PM
The durability of a frame lock over a liner lock is about an order of magnitude.

The typical frame lock is stronger by virtue of a couple of things, 1) the thickness of the material is almost always greater than (like double) the material used in a liner lock, and therefore much less likely to collapse, and 2) the engagement area on the heel of the blade is also greater, and therefore much less likely to accidentally disengage.

I have a number of Kershaw Leeks. Most of them are frame locks, but a couple have "fancy" handle scales, and use the liner lock. The difference is tangible and significant. Any future Leeks in my stable will have frame locks.

I also have some Buck knives with liner locks, both earlier and later designs. The liner locks on the earlier designs are somewhat flimsy (by my standards) while the newer ones are noticeably heavier and stronger.

I don't have any weak frame locks, but I do have some weak liner locks.


Now, there are things that can impair a frame lock and interfere with its reliability, but those things are easy to spot.

If the "mating" of the frame lock with the blade heel is incomplete (only a little bit of engagement) then the lock will be less durable. If the angle of the bevel on the frame lock is imperfect (meaning the lock mating face doesn't meet flush with the blade heel), then the lock will be less durable.

If the mating is both flush and complete, the lock will withstand a great deal of pressure.


These observations are offered from personal experience, and don't necessarily represent all the possible variations out there.

I'm sure there are rock solid liner locks, and I'm sure there are low quality frame locks. My own experience however leads me to trust liner locks for light and medium duty, and frame locks for heavy duty.

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 03:16 PM
Hello and thanks!
What you say makes sense, to me. I was looking at the frame lock on a Zero Tolerance, though I can't remember the exact model. It was quite thick, but the mating area was angled, not perpendicular, I think I said that correctly. Is this normal?
rhtwist

hso
March 12, 2012, 03:48 PM
You'll find the SOGs are not as solid as some of the other lines out there. Good non-assists, but some problems with durability in the mechanism of the AOs.

The ZTs can be outstanding quality, but you'll pay for that. Their lock faces will be of complimentary angle so that they wedge against each other instead of mating parallel and potentially sliding. This way as they wear over the years they'll stay secure. They're not to my taste, but there are plenty of folks that love their ZTs. The 300, 301, 350 are all AOs in the ZT line.

Other solid AOs not mentioned are made by Myerco, Buck, Timberline. Stay away from Smith & Wesson and Schrade branded knives since they're just names and not credible companies.

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 05:18 PM
Thank you for the good description of the frame lock and the other quality knives I might investigate!
rhtwist

Bartholomew Roberts
March 12, 2012, 06:03 PM
Don't know how set you are on Assisted Opening; but if you are interested in framelocks that can be opened fast with one hand, then take a look at the Kershaw Groove and Tanto Groove. These are Kershaw's production version of R. J. Martin's $500+ Havoc custom knife. They use a flipper rather than assisted opening; but they are fast and easy as any assisted opening with a little lubrication applied to the roller bearings.

I believe the line has been discontinued by Kershaw; but you can still find them online for $50-60 and they have a 3.5" blade like your Blur.

hso
March 12, 2012, 06:07 PM
But stay away from anything that looks like the tip was broken off and they decided to call it a "tanto" so they could sell it to the unsuspecting. ;)

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 09:39 PM
Don't know how set you are on Assisted Opening; but if you are interested in framelocks that can be opened fast with one hand, then take a look at the Kershaw Groove and Tanto Groove. These are Kershaw's production version of R. J. Martin's $500+ Havoc custom knife. They use a flipper rather than assisted opening; but they are fast and easy as any assisted opening with a little lubrication applied to the roller bearings.

I believe the line has been discontinued by Kershaw; but you can still find them online for $50-60 and they have a 3.5" blade like your Blur.

Hello,
Thanks for the response. It sounds like they are worth taking a look at and I will!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 09:40 PM
But stay away from anything that looks like the tip was broken off and they decided to call it a "tanto" so they could sell it to the unsuspecting. ;)

Is that true, hso? That is pitiful, but sounds very possible. I don't care that much for the tanto blade in a pocket knife. Thanks!!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 12, 2012, 11:00 PM
What the thoughts on the Gerbers like this one?

http://www.bladehq.com/item--Gerber-Answer-3-Spring--3698

rhtwist

ArfinGreebly
March 12, 2012, 11:15 PM
From the thread on survival knives:
by me:

At this time I have trouble recommending Gerber as a brand. I own some of their earlier (1970s, early '80s) pieces, and they're excellent. I haven't been able to find any of their newer stuff that measures up to that earlier standard. I do have a couple of modern Gerber pieces with which I'm happy (e.g. a Harsey Hunter), but mostly I haven't achieved a good level of confidence with today's Gerber products.

I don't have enough first-hand exposure to many of the newer Gerber offerings to say yea or nay, but on occasion I will buy a Gerber just to see how the edge holding characteristics are coming along.

They're getting better, but I just haven't reached a "high confidence" point with them yet.

smcd1983
March 12, 2012, 11:20 PM
I have several griptilians, but after buying the 581 barrage it's been my edc. I highly recommend this knife and its exactly what you're asking for. The 581 is the same as the 580 but with better steel and G10/aluminium handle instead of regular plastic. I also have the 790 subrosa, its great but it uses a frame lock not the axis.

Jason_G
March 12, 2012, 11:21 PM
What the thoughts on the Gerbers like this one?

http://www.bladehq.com/item--Gerber-Answer-3-Spring--3698



I have no idea about that particular model, but the last Gerber I owned will be the last Gerber I own.

The steel on my last one (a Gator that I used when I was working construction still) was junk. An EZ-Out before that- also junk. Also had a little skeletonized liner lock folder with a chisel grind- I'll let you guess.

I think Gerber is hit or miss, depending on the model, but mostly "miss" in my experience.

They are ok if you buy them as a disposable knife, but don't expect it to compare to a Benchmade, or Spyderco, etc.

YMMV.

Jason

hso
March 12, 2012, 11:58 PM
Gerber straightened themselves out, but only after Fiskars nearly killed them.

I like the Answer model, but I don't like 440A. If you're not cutting feet and feet of cardboard it would do fine.

rhtwist
March 13, 2012, 07:22 AM
Thanks for your opinion on the Gerber. Who else does Fiskar own? Might be worth a try.
Closer to my optimum price range....rhtwist

rhtwist
March 13, 2012, 07:24 AM
Thanks for another benchmade fan. I forget where I read it, but there was an expressed concern over the assisted opening springs on the benchmades. Do you have any opinions other that you love it {:-))?
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 13, 2012, 07:27 AM
Well, the last gerber I owned was my first carry knife. Looked like a thin stylized version of the orignal buck folders. Brass with wood inserts. Great knife. Seems so far the opinions are iffy!
Thanks,
rhtwist

shotgun-2
March 13, 2012, 04:09 PM
I really like SOG's, the Flash ll looks good but I've never owned that one. Have had great luck with the Twitch & Twitch XL and their Arc-Lock series can't be beat for a lock system but are a little pricey.
My favorite (although discontinued for 2012) is the Arcitech VG10 San Mai.

rhtwist
March 13, 2012, 04:15 PM
I really like SOG's, the Flash ll looks good but I've never owned that one. Have had great luck with the Twitch & Twitch XL and their Arc-Lock series can't be beat for a lock system but are a little pricey.
My favorite (although discontinued for 2012) is the Arcitech VG10 San Mai.
Thanks for the Benchmade checkmark! Love that knife. Can't afford it, but a beaut!
Appreciate your time!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 13, 2012, 07:42 PM
Hello all, looking around and found the Benchmade Aegis. Soliciting opinions on this particular knife. Thanks
rhtwist

hso
March 13, 2012, 10:26 PM
Are you sure about that name.

SOG has an Aegis, but I don't remember a Benchmade of that name.

rhtwist
March 14, 2012, 12:12 AM
Are you sure about that name.

SOG has an Aegis, but I don't remember a Benchmade of that name.
I do believe you are correct. It is the SOG. Saw comparison with the 580 Barrage and got confused. Looking at so many different brands and knives. I like the Barrage but the blade length and the heftier price tag would make a difference. Although I like metal liners.
Any thoughts on the knife?
rhtwist

Owen Sparks
March 14, 2012, 01:23 AM
What is wrong with the Blur? I have one in my collection and it seems sturdy enough.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 14, 2012, 01:39 AM
One other possibility might be the Kershaw Piston. It is an inset liner lock. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me if that overcomes your objections to liner locks; but it is 3.5" blade and it is a combination of both assisted opening and flipper and thumb studs. $60-65 range.

rhtwist
March 14, 2012, 08:46 AM
What is wrong with the Blur? I have one in my collection and it seems sturdy enough.
Hello Owen,
Actually the blur is my favorite. Have 2. But I have had the liner lock fail once, as from what I've read, liner locks will. I have had the liner lock on my M-16 fail, again without personal damage. The design of the blade and grips is such the IMO a catastrophic lose of my flesh could occur. It was lucky that when it happened to me, the blade only closed a little. This is just my experience and reading. I know there are stronger locking systems. If Kershaw would put a something like an sliding lock on it, I'd never shop elsewhere. YMMV!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 14, 2012, 08:48 AM
One other possibility might be the Kershaw Piston. It is an inset liner lock. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me if that overcomes your objections to liner locks; but it is 3.5" blade and it is a combination of both assisted opening and flipper and thumb studs. $60-65 range.
Thank Bartholemew,
I will certainly take a look! Thanks for your time and another avenue to explore!
rhtwist

rhtwist
March 14, 2012, 10:14 AM
One other possibility might be the Kershaw Piston. It is an inset liner lock. You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me if that overcomes your objections to liner locks; but it is 3.5" blade and it is a combination of both assisted opening and flipper and thumb studs. $60-65 range.
Howdy again, I just looked at the Kershaw piston and the one I saw had no thumb studs. It had a flipper extension on the top that you flicked back and it AO'd. It appears to me FWIW to have about the same liner lock as the blur.
I contacted Kershaw, asking for info of a possible model of the Blur with a better IMO locking system. They professionally asked if I would like to ship the knife back for inspection on their dime. Great company, great knife IMHO! Wish someone would put an axis style lock on it......
Glenn

Bartholomew Roberts
March 14, 2012, 10:56 AM
Howdy again, I just looked at the Kershaw piston and the one I saw had no thumb studs.

There was a "first-look" pre-production model that was slick (flipper only) that was widely covered on different Internet sites; but according to the Kershaw website, the production version includes thumbstuds.

http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=608&brand=kershaw

It appears to me FWIW to have about the same liner lock as the blur.

Yes, like I said, I wouldn't know the difference between a liner lock and an inset liner lock, or why one is superior to the other. Kershaw took pains to make the distinction in their discussion of the knife, so I assumed it was superior to a liner-lock.

rhtwist
March 14, 2012, 12:17 PM
Yes, now that is a better looking knife than I saw. Without being able to view the inset liner lock closer on this model, well maybe there is a difference. I am currently trying to come up with something to sell and a good excuse to get a ZT 350. Ah......
Thank you sir!
rhtwist

76shuvlinoff
March 15, 2012, 09:38 PM
Been carrying a smooth blade mini Griptilian every single day for a few years now. I have an AO mini Barrage in the mail, should be here at any moment.

rhtwist
March 15, 2012, 10:39 PM
Sounds like a plan! Congratulations. If you don't mind would you post your opinions on it. Maybe a picture??????
Good luck with your new acquisition!
rhtwist

Walking Dead
March 25, 2012, 06:34 PM
I carry the Benchmade griptilian tanto and swear by it. I went with the tanto because I use it as a tool and tend to break the tips off my knives. No such problem as the tanto is very robust.

rhtwist
March 25, 2012, 10:10 PM
Howdy,
Thanks for your experienced opinion. By now I have come to some conclusions about some of the issues on the knives mentioned above. Saw the griptillian and tried it, it is very easy to open and close. IMHO though that AO knives seem to lack the authority of the Kershaw product AO mechanism. I mean I like the SOG Aegis and the 580 Benchmade, but for price and value. I am sticking with my Blur. Just sent it back to the manufacture for a tune-up and resharpen. Bringing out the backup.
The knife I set my eyes on is the ZT 350. It has the Kershaw opening and it has an again IMHO much more durable frame lock. The Kershaw design seems to me to be one of the few AO that don't need a separate safety. Since I don't pocket carry, the weight is not a problem. I like I decided, metal or metal covered in plastic knives over all plastic.
Now if someone want to send me a griptillian as a present, well for sure I'll carry it sometimes. Seems like a fine knife!
Glenn

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