New York City -- my travel experience


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coloradokevin
March 12, 2012, 02:58 AM
I just returned from my first ever (and probably only) trip to New York City, and wanted to share my story with those of you who might wonder about the gun culture in such a place. For many years I've avoided NYC like the plague, partially because of its anti-liberty attitude (ironic given the statue), but mostly due to my overall aversion to nearly all things BIG city related. But, I've got a brother who relocated to that area, and my girlfriend has a lot of family out there. As such, after years of avoiding NYC like the plague, I finally traveled there to see family, and the various sights.

What a mess! That place is nothing short of a nightmare for gun owners, despite the fact that it is probably one of those places where having a gun for self-defense would be a very prudent thing to do if it wouldn't land you in jail. Unfortunately, it seems all but impossible for a regular citizen to have a gun (legally) in that city!

Since a bit of background about myself is necessary to fully explain this story, I must mention that I work as a full-time police officer here in my home state, and my state is fairly relaxed on gun laws. Although the terms of my employment state that I am to be armed while on and off duty, until a few years ago we were cautioned against trying to carry in places like NY state. However, thanks to the enactment of 18 USC 926B (the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act, 2004), I'm now covered by federal law for the sake of concealed carry (at its most basic level) in the various states.

Anyway, I took my backup gun with me on this trip, which is a Glock 26. This gun was checked into my luggage at my home airport, in the usual manner that many of you are probably familiar with (hard sided locked case inside of an item of checked luggage, gun unloaded, ammo in an ammo box). I retrieved the baggage containing my firearm at Laguardia airport in the ordinary manner.

During the course of my travels in this city, it quickly became evident that carrying a firearm is a tough thing to do even for a fully commissioned law enforcement officer. Many of the buildings clearly listed that they were restricted to the point that only the NYPD or NY State Police were allowed to carry there, and weapons screening locations were conveniently located in many other places, just after the point where crowds would gather.

So, despite being able to legally carry a gun in the city (while most people are sadly restricted beyond that level), I still found that I couldn't really effectively carry my gun and go anywhere that I might want to see as a tourist. As such, it pretty much sat at the place where I was staying for most of the trip, instead of being with me where it could do some good for me and the other decent citizens in the area. I really hate leaving my weapon behind when exploring an unfamiliar city, since it is so easy to find yourself in an area of town that you would have intentionally avoided if you had known the area.

While I'm on the subject of these restrictions, I ought to mention that some of the "gun free zones" in this city really didn't make any sense to me at all. I went down to lower Manhattan to visit the 9/11 Memorial site yesterday. The memorial itself was nicely put together, with a pretty fountain pouring into the exact footprint of each of the twin towers, and the names of the victims listed around the perimeter of these memorials. It was a nice park-like setting, which was fitting for such a memorial. However, the city of NY has decided to surround the site (probably 15 acres or more) with a large fence. Then, everyone going into the site has to subject themselves to a weapons screening that isn't all that much different than the airport security we all deal with these days! So, instead of being able to walk up to an open memorial park and reflect on that tragic event, you now have to stand in an amusement park-like maze to go through security before you can approach the memorial fountains.

Despite the tragedy of 9/11, anyone could recognize that this site would obviously serve as a very poor target for attack, just given the nature of the park-like atmosphere and lack of target concentration. However, the queue of hundreds of people waiting to get through the security point to enter this park would probably make a far more enticing target to someone who was willing to do harm to others in such a place. As such, it served as another prime example of "security theater" in a gun free zone. It makes the little lambs feel safer, while probably putting them at more risk of harm.

Anyway, a lot of that type of silliness was anticipated before I ever stepped off of the plane. I figured NY would be a pain to deal with, and it was definitely not a friendly city for the gun owners. But, the icing on the cake came today when I returned to Laguardia airport for my flight home. I approached the airline's counter and declared the firearm in my checked bag in the usual manner (it was stored in the usual manner). At every other airport I've ever been to with a gun (about 12 so far), the ticketing agent then calls a TSA agent over to hand-check the baggage item that contains the firearm. Not so in NYC! The ticketing agent tells me that he's required to call the police on any guns that are being checked. I asked him if the TSA was going to check the bag, and he responded that the police need to talk to me first (he already knew I was a police officer at this time ). The ticketing agent, who had already made a couple of phone calls on the console phone right in front of me, then walks down the line away from me, picks up another phone, and presumably calls the police as he stood there looking at me as if I was some sort of trouble maker.

A few minutes later (as I stood there waiting to check my bags at the front of the line) I was approached by 3 NYC Port Authority police officers, who were apparently assigned to handle such matters. They were polite to me, but were obviously on a mission from the outset. Two of the officers were fairly decent to talk with, but I definitely got the impression that it would have been an entirely different story (regarding my checked firearm) if I had not been a cop. The third guy was all business, and approached me about like this:

"I need to see your driver's license and your department credentials, I also need you to open that bag, and the gun case. We need the serial number from your gun, we need to know what kind of ammo you're carrying, and I need your home address and phone number".

This all surprised me a bit, since I was checking a firearm in the exact same manner that any other private citizen was allowed to at my home airport (and most other airports). Regardless, I have nothing to hide and politely complied with their requests. But, it got better. The contact officer (the most down-to-business of the three) then pulls my gun out of the case, in front of the entire line of people who would be on my flight, and holds it up to read the serial number, so that it was clearly visible to anyone standing in the line (30-40 people). He then asks me what kind of ammo I'm carrying and how many rounds. I played my hand close to the vest on that one and just said: "It's whatever my department issues, and it is just one 10-round magazine worth". That statement was entirely true, but I didn't want to go into great detail about my ammo, since I'm not entirely sure how NY views JHP rounds.

After this part was over, the officers (all 3) walked me over to the TSA guy, who then searched me bag. They then walked me back to the counter to deliver my bag to the original ticketing agent.

As a fellow lawman, the officers were happy to talk with me for a while after the bag check was complete, and I had no problem talking to them (I know as well as they do that these policies are set well above their heads). It was during this time that I learned that they routinely arrest out of state residents for carrying firearms without the necessary NY license to do so. They naturally mentioned that my LE status exempts me from that law, but did seem to make it sound like such arrests are business as usual in NYC for other citizens.

After getting home tonight I attempted to read more about NYC firearms rules, and discovered that they're quite messy (and expensive... something like $340 to apply, and $95 for fingerprints). I also found an interesting tidbit on Wikipedia about arrests being made at NYC airports for the possession of otherwise legally owned, stored, and checked firearms (scroll down to the non-resident section):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#Non-resident_travel_through_N.Y.

Another article shows that someone else was arrested for trying to check a gun at Laguardia in recent months:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57344080/tea-partys-mark-meckler-arrested-on-gun-charge/


The moral of this story? Don't carry a gun in NYC! Better yet, don't go to NYC. Come to CO instead, and we'll take you out shooting. :) I really just can't believe that NYC can get away with these policies in THIS country.

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razorback2003
March 12, 2012, 03:20 AM
You were very lucky to be able to carry a handgun as an out of stater in NYC.

It seems like folks don't have problems getting a license to keep a gun at home, it is the carrying part that seems to be harder in NYC. Still NYC guns wise is better than a lot of foreign countries where folks can't keep a gun for protection.

Norom
March 12, 2012, 03:54 AM
This is so very sad to hear, not only from the history of that city but also that this can happen in the country. I live in Oregon and we are a fairly good gun state, although I have heard and read quite a few story's of people getting arrested for legal concealed carry in cities that made legislation saying you may not have a gun on your person within city limits. Portland for example is one of these cities followed by Eugene, Salem, Albany and so on. Truly sad.

imsobored
March 12, 2012, 04:42 AM
The 9/11 memorial is fenced off and requires advanced tickets(free) since its still "under construction"only a limited number of people a day set for different times. I was just there in dec/jan

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imsobored
March 12, 2012, 04:43 AM
The 9/11 memorial is fenced off and requires advanced tickets(free) since its still "under construction"only a limited number of people a day set for different times. I was just there in dec/jan
I too am a hater of big citys, but it was a nice trip, no problems for me.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk



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ultradoc
March 12, 2012, 07:32 AM
I would rather go to Co. than N.Y anytime. The scenery is much better.

The War Wagon
March 12, 2012, 08:30 AM
I saw that episode of The Simpsons back in 1997. Figured it was accurate enough to keep me from EVER wanting to go there! :rolleyes:

If you've never seen it, watch here! :D http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v1656539ead1

JohnD13
March 12, 2012, 08:30 AM
It's not better if you live here. My license, issued upstate, is not considered valid in New York City. But a license issued in New York city is valid anywhere in the state. We do things differently here, that's for certain.

Tim the student
March 12, 2012, 09:15 AM
FWIW, not all NY'ers are antis, although they are certainly in the minority in my experience. Unfortunately, they seem to be a tiny group.

HOOfan_1
March 12, 2012, 09:51 AM
Yeah, I won't ever be taking my tourist dollars to New York City, California, Illinois or New Jersey (not that there is anything to see there anyway).

NYC certainly won't be getting any better any time soon. I think Furher Bloomberg seems to have a lifetime dictatorship in that city.

scaatylobo
March 12, 2012, 09:53 AM
I am now a retired LEO and also carry under the same law as you.

I was born there and visit every few years for a Yankees game,and I go into the stadium with no search - yea funny that.

But I drive to the city and carry a good deal more than you,never had an issue yet.

But yes they are strict and stupid in the way its enforced.

I have been to NYC at least 20 times since 1982 when I got on the job,never had a issue and was told by many city officers that if I was not armed - I was a fool.

But I stay the hell away from airlines as I have too many issues with the tsa to get in a pi$$ing contest with them as I know I would lose.

There is too much to enjoy to stay away forever,but drive in and go to places that dont ask you to disarm.

Little Italy,Chinatown,Macy's [ for the wife ] and all the food and shopping are great.

coloradokevin
March 12, 2012, 12:51 PM
scaatylobo,

We did walk through Little Italy and Chinatown. Great food in both places! And, the air travel situation is ridiculous these days... in every possible way.

Jeremiah10:23
March 12, 2012, 01:15 PM
Didn't you know, NYC stands for No You Can't.

Could also mean Not Your (my) Country.

Pilot
March 12, 2012, 01:17 PM
I am not a LEO, and would NEVER consider carrying a gun or even a knife in NYC. I applaud your effort, and attitude towards legal concealed carry. I wish everybody thought that way. The 9/11 memorial story doesn't surprise me and the political "security theater" to show "we're DOING something" is laughable and sad. A reminder that the terrorists have won.

I was a resident of CO for several years, and LOVED it. I'd rather be there than almost anywhere especially NYC or even NY state which isn't much better.

Certaindeaf
March 12, 2012, 01:40 PM
Didn't they make a movie about Escape From New York? Yes, yes they did. Escape is the operative word.

mac66
March 12, 2012, 02:11 PM
Wait. If handguns are essentially banned in NYC why do they need metal detectors/checkpoints to access some locations? Think about it.

Gun control in cities like NYC is all about the control, not guns.

Bonesinium
March 12, 2012, 02:20 PM
Wait. If handguns are essentially banned in NYC why do they need metal detectors/checkpoints to access some locations? Think about it.

Gun control in cities like NYC is all about the control, not guns.
True statement.

That is why it is called gun control, and NOT crime prevention. Those are two totally different things. Unfortunately it a country full of morons and people who believe whatever they hear, and are incapable of thinking, this is what you get. God help us all.


The third guy was all business, and approached me about like this:

"I need to see your driver's license and your department credentials, I also need you to open that bag, and the gun case. We need the serial number from your gun, we need to know what kind of ammo you're carrying, and I need your home address and phone number".

This all surprised me a bit, since I was checking a firearm in the exact same manner that any other private citizen was allowed to at my home airport (and most other airports). Regardless, I have nothing to hide and politely complied with their requests. But, it got better. The contact officer (the most down-to-business of the three) then pulls my gun out of the case, in front of the entire line of people who would be on my flight, and holds it up to read the serial number, so that it was clearly visible to anyone standing in the line (30-40 people). He then asks me what kind of ammo I'm carrying and how many rounds. I played my hand close to the vest on that one and just said: "It's whatever my department issues, and it is just one 10-round magazine worth". That statement was entirely true, but I didn't want to go into great detail about my ammo, since I'm not entirely sure how NY views JHP rounds.

.

Great post.

I think what you said couldn't make it any more clear, especially being that you are also a LEO! In places like NYC, the attitude of a officer is that of them being in charge, and you, being a criminal unless you can prove you are not. There is no 'friendly' interaction between them without some sense of them trying to find you a criminal. What a terrible thing.

Certaindeaf
March 12, 2012, 04:17 PM
..the greatest city in the world..
That's pretty funny.

oneounceload
March 12, 2012, 04:44 PM
instead of being with me where it could do some good for me and the other decent citizens in the area.

So, were you mugged? Did you need it? Were you or your loved ones raped or otherwise harmed in any way? Seems the answer is a big a no - and it is funny to read the nowheremen - folks who have NEVER been there whining about the place. I was born and raised there - maybe some of you folks could use some time in the museums, libraries art galleries and theaters. Knew what areas to stay out of, went to all the tourist spots AND the locals spots with NEVER an issue - not one, zero, zilch, nada

so maybe the folks who have NEVER been there should refrain from posting gibberish about something they have no knowledge about

Is it Eden? Nope, sure isn't, and there are certainly places you do not want to be depending on your skin color or gender and time of day - but I can say that about ANY city bigger than 50,000 as well

But then these are the same folks who feel the need in their town to carry a gun into the shower with them or anywhere they go, even on their own property - just how safe or unsafe is that compared to NYC?

Johnny Dollar - I know NYC and I also agree - it has some of the best food. culture, history, and PEOPLE of any place in this country

Skyshot
March 12, 2012, 04:55 PM
I guess business has got to be pretty good if you're a robber or thief in that town huh!

Tim the student
March 12, 2012, 05:06 PM
^^ Good lord.

WALKERs210
March 12, 2012, 05:07 PM
My first trip into NYC was back in 1966, young sailor with friends just fresh from the farm. Over the years I had to go into different sections of the city and was always amazed by the fear so many people had about being in the city and they had never been there. My late wife went with me on one trip and by the time we went across the GW bridge she was totally scared to death from horror stories that were told to her. I drove a big truck and was warned over and over about different sections but I never had a single issue at all, even the local Police were very friendly and helpful. I will say that moving around the streets of Brooklyn with a 53ft trailer could be an event that I don't want to repeat overall NYC is definitely a place to visit.

hermannr
March 12, 2012, 05:42 PM
I have been in NYC two times. Once when I was in the Military, once to fly into LaGuardia to attend a funeral in Albany,,,Never Again!!!!! even though my wife's family is from NY and politically connected,,,NEVER AGAIN!!!

I will drive into NYS, but I will never aganin voluntarily enter NYC, EVER!!!!

Believe it or not: If you have the proper nanny permits and licenses, it is legal (that means there is no written law prohibiting OC) to Open Carry in NY...And how long do you think you would live doing something totally legal?

smkummer
March 12, 2012, 05:57 PM
NY has over stepped its bounds and I only go there (I am a pilot) on business. They have taxed, regulated and interceded on peoples rights under some security/safety banner for all too long. Good friggen ridance. What friggen right has he to ask what type of ammo you are carrying? You did right by saying dept. issue. What a <deleted>! Does this state LEO believe he is above us mere subjects? Why even talk with the other "nice" LEO's? Maybe it makes them feel good that they can "chum" and somewhat make you feel welcome. Good cop bad cop? <deleted> em! That state is so far gone it will take generations to come back to reality.

BIGGBAY90
March 12, 2012, 06:55 PM
i just returned from my first ever (and probably only) trip to new york city, and wanted to share my story with those of you who might wonder about the gun culture in such a place. For many years i've avoided nyc like the plague, partially because of its anti-liberty attitude (ironic given the statue), but mostly due to my overall aversion to nearly all things big city related. But, i've got a brother who relocated to that area, and my girlfriend has a lot of family out there. As such, after years of avoiding nyc like the plague, i finally traveled there to see family, and the various sights.

What a mess! That place is nothing short of a nightmare for gun owners, despite the fact that it is probably one of those places where having a gun for self-defense would be a very prudent thing to do if it wouldn't land you in jail. Unfortunately, it seems all but impossible for a regular citizen to have a gun (legally) in that city!

Since a bit of background about myself is necessary to fully explain this story, i must mention that i work as a full-time police officer here in my home state, and my state is fairly relaxed on gun laws. Although the terms of my employment state that i am to be armed while on and off duty, until a few years ago we were cautioned against trying to carry in places like ny state. However, thanks to the enactment of 18 usc 926b (the law enforcement officer safety act, 2004), i'm now covered by federal law for the sake of concealed carry (at its most basic level) in the various states.

Anyway, i took my backup gun with me on this trip, which is a glock 26. This gun was checked into my luggage at my home airport, in the usual manner that many of you are probably familiar with (hard sided locked case inside of an item of checked luggage, gun unloaded, ammo in an ammo box). I retrieved the baggage containing my firearm at laguardia airport in the ordinary manner.

During the course of my travels in this city, it quickly became evident that carrying a firearm is a tough thing to do even for a fully commissioned law enforcement officer. Many of the buildings clearly listed that they were restricted to the point that only the nypd or ny state police were allowed to carry there, and weapons screening locations were conveniently located in many other places, just after the point where crowds would gather.

So, despite being able to legally carry a gun in the city (while most people are sadly restricted beyond that level), i still found that i couldn't really effectively carry my gun and go anywhere that i might want to see as a tourist. As such, it pretty much sat at the place where i was staying for most of the trip, instead of being with me where it could do some good for me and the other decent citizens in the area. I really hate leaving my weapon behind when exploring an unfamiliar city, since it is so easy to find yourself in an area of town that you would have intentionally avoided if you had known the area.

While i'm on the subject of these restrictions, i ought to mention that some of the "gun free zones" in this city really didn't make any sense to me at all. I went down to lower manhattan to visit the 9/11 memorial site yesterday. The memorial itself was nicely put together, with a pretty fountain pouring into the exact footprint of each of the twin towers, and the names of the victims listed around the perimeter of these memorials. It was a nice park-like setting, which was fitting for such a memorial. However, the city of ny has decided to surround the site (probably 15 acres or more) with a large fence. Then, everyone going into the site has to subject themselves to a weapons screening that isn't all that much different than the airport security we all deal with these days! So, instead of being able to walk up to an open memorial park and reflect on that tragic event, you now have to stand in an amusement park-like maze to go through security before you can approach the memorial fountains.

Despite the tragedy of 9/11, anyone could recognize that this site would obviously serve as a very poor target for attack, just given the nature of the park-like atmosphere and lack of target concentration. However, the queue of hundreds of people waiting to get through the security point to enter this park would probably make a far more enticing target to someone who was willing to do harm to others in such a place. As such, it served as another prime example of "security theater" in a gun free zone. It makes the little lambs feel safer, while probably putting them at more risk of harm.

Anyway, a lot of that type of silliness was anticipated before i ever stepped off of the plane. I figured ny would be a pain to deal with, and it was definitely not a friendly city for the gun owners. But, the icing on the cake came today when i returned to laguardia airport for my flight home. I approached the airline's counter and declared the firearm in my checked bag in the usual manner (it was stored in the usual manner). At every other airport i've ever been to with a gun (about 12 so far), the ticketing agent then calls a tsa agent over to hand-check the baggage item that contains the firearm. Not so in nyc! The ticketing agent tells me that he's required to call the police on any guns that are being checked. I asked him if the tsa was going to check the bag, and he responded that the police need to talk to me first (he already knew i was a police officer at this time ). The ticketing agent, who had already made a couple of phone calls on the console phone right in front of me, then walks down the line away from me, picks up another phone, and presumably calls the police as he stood there looking at me as if i was some sort of trouble maker.

A few minutes later (as i stood there waiting to check my bags at the front of the line) i was approached by 3 nyc port authority police officers, who were apparently assigned to handle such matters. They were polite to me, but were obviously on a mission from the outset. Two of the officers were fairly decent to talk with, but i definitely got the impression that it would have been an entirely different story (regarding my checked firearm) if i had not been a cop. The third guy was all business, and approached me about like this:

"i need to see your driver's license and your department credentials, i also need you to open that bag, and the gun case. We need the serial number from your gun, we need to know what kind of ammo you're carrying, and i need your home address and phone number".

This all surprised me a bit, since i was checking a firearm in the exact same manner that any other private citizen was allowed to at my home airport (and most other airports). Regardless, i have nothing to hide and politely complied with their requests. But, it got better. The contact officer (the most down-to-business of the three) then pulls my gun out of the case, in front of the entire line of people who would be on my flight, and holds it up to read the serial number, so that it was clearly visible to anyone standing in the line (30-40 people). He then asks me what kind of ammo i'm carrying and how many rounds. I played my hand close to the vest on that one and just said: "it's whatever my department issues, and it is just one 10-round magazine worth". That statement was entirely true, but i didn't want to go into great detail about my ammo, since i'm not entirely sure how ny views jhp rounds.

After this part was over, the officers (all 3) walked me over to the tsa guy, who then searched me bag. They then walked me back to the counter to deliver my bag to the original ticketing agent.

As a fellow lawman, the officers were happy to talk with me for a while after the bag check was complete, and i had no problem talking to them (i know as well as they do that these policies are set well above their heads). It was during this time that i learned that they routinely arrest out of state residents for carrying firearms without the necessary ny license to do so. They naturally mentioned that my le status exempts me from that law, but did seem to make it sound like such arrests are business as usual in nyc for other citizens.

After getting home tonight i attempted to read more about nyc firearms rules, and discovered that they're quite messy (and expensive... Something like $340 to apply, and $95 for fingerprints). I also found an interesting tidbit on wikipedia about arrests being made at nyc airports for the possession of otherwise legally owned, stored, and checked firearms (scroll down to the non-resident section):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gun_laws_in_new_york#non-resident_travel_through_n.y.

Another article shows that someone else was arrested for trying to check a gun at laguardia in recent months:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57344080/tea-partys-mark-meckler-arrested-on-gun-charge/


the moral of this story? Don't carry a gun in nyc! better yet, don't go to nyc. Come to co instead, and we'll take you out shooting. :) i really just can't believe that nyc can get away with these policies in this country.
VERY STRICT CITY --where's the nra

The Sarge
March 12, 2012, 07:02 PM
NYC "Dear Leader" does not care about the SCOTUS why would he care about the NRA?
But what would we know? All we do is watch NASCAR according to New Yorkers.
We be ignorant :)
And free............

BIGGBAY90
March 12, 2012, 07:08 PM
(morse code) ... _ _ _ ... For that city

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 12, 2012, 07:51 PM
So, were you mugged? Did you need it? Were you or your loved ones raped or otherwise harmed in any way? Seems the answer is a big a no - and it is funny to read the nowheremen - folks who have NEVER been there whining about the place. I was born and raised there - maybe some of you folks could use some time in the museums, libraries art galleries and theaters. Knew what areas to stay out of, went to all the tourist spots AND the locals spots with NEVER an issue - not one, zero, zilch, nada

Wow. You have a lot of nerve to presume someone is uneducated simply from them wishing to be prepared to defend themselves in a large urban area.

You don't know the OP.

You don't know his education level.

Stop presuming you do. Your comments were reprehensible and very un-High Road. I could turn the tables on you and say that you're "I'm more educated and better than you" attitude comes from your city-upbringing. But that would be rude and presumptuous of me. About as rude and presumptuous as your comments were.

Stop posting on The High Road. Go sit down someplace, collect your thoughts, recognize that your comments about the OP were about as below-the-belt as they could be without being ban-worthy, and come back when you've learned how to discuss topics like an adult. As enlightening as good museums and art can be, I'd take a break from them if I were you, and spend that time asking your parents to reteach you simple manners.

I know NYC and I also agree - it has some of the best food. culture, history, and PEOPLE of any place in this country

If your rude and arrogant attitude towards the OP is any indication of how the citizens of New York City act, than sir, you and I have very different opinions on what makes one "best".

stickhauler
March 12, 2012, 08:04 PM
So, were you mugged? Did you need it? Were you or your loved ones raped or otherwise harmed in any way? Seems the answer is a big a no - and it is funny to read the nowheremen - folks who have NEVER been there whining about the place. I was born and raised there - maybe some of you folks could use some time in the museums, libraries art galleries and theaters. Knew what areas to stay out of, went to all the tourist spots AND the locals spots with NEVER an issue - not one, zero, zilch, nada


I ran trucks into your wonderful city for many years, I didn't lose anything there, thus, I have no reason to return. Perhaps it's having to deal with people who were just as condescending as you that turned me off on coming there.

Pat M
March 12, 2012, 08:22 PM
Well, as someone who lives about 40 miles east of NYC, who shot in a highpower match yesterday, and fired 100 rnds through my new NY neutered AK, some of us are still putting up the good fight. We are currently dealing with an attempt by the dems in the state assembly to add micro-stamping to the state budget bill. They are also attempting to ban all magazines over 10 rounds, including those manufactured prior to 1994. Where is the NRA? Good question. I suppose they are choosing to fight the battles they can win.

There have been recent discussions on our local forums about the same situation that the OP went through at LaGuardia. Unlike every other airport in the U.S., the airlines here feel obligated to involve NY Port Authority Police in a process that should be handled by the TSA. Properly licensed NY residents have put up with the harassment, but have made it clear that they are not violating any laws. I suppose it is more complicated for non-residents passing through the city's airports.

CollinLeon
March 12, 2012, 08:35 PM
So, were you mugged? Did you need it? Were you or your loved ones raped or otherwise harmed in any way? Seems the answer is a big a no - and it is funny to read the nowheremen - folks who have NEVER been there whining about the place. I was born and raised there - maybe some of you folks could use some time in the museums, libraries art galleries and theaters. Knew what areas to stay out of, went to all the tourist spots AND the locals spots with NEVER an issue - not one, zero, zilch, nada

so maybe the folks who have NEVER been there should refrain from posting gibberish about something they have no knowledge about

Is it Eden? Nope, sure isn't, and there are certainly places you do not want to be depending on your skin color or gender and time of day - but I can say that about ANY city bigger than 50,000 as well

But then these are the same folks who feel the need in their town to carry a gun into the shower with them or anywhere they go, even on their own property - just how safe or unsafe is that compared to NYC?

Johnny Dollar - I know NYC and I also agree - it has some of the best food. culture, history, and PEOPLE of any place in this country
I have to think that attitudes like that are why the native Floridians say that ya'll Damn Yankees need to go back home and quit ruining their culture...

Armybrat
March 12, 2012, 08:38 PM
That is the truth.And being born 7 miles from the Empire State Building ,it will always be part of home to me.

The gun laws are ridiculous ,but at only 6 murders per 100,000 per capita,it is by far the safest very large city in America. Only San Diego and El Paso,much smaller ,are lower. Baltimore at 42 and Washington,D.C. at 31 are stunning comparisons. My home town of Miami is at 15.

Austin, Texas (pop. 800,000) experienced 25 murders in 2011.

We have thousands of CHL carriers in the metro area of 1.8 million, so you can add us to your list of safer cities. :)

scaatylobo
March 12, 2012, 08:44 PM
As stated I have carried in NYC too many times to bother worrying about it.

And I go well armed and have NEVER had a bad word or comment from the NYC P.D.

The culture and the trip is --- a trip.

You would not be sorry if you watch where you go and if allowed ,go healed.

btw,I have never had to even think about taking out my piece when there,but it is a real comfort to know that I have that option.

I live in NYS and that is another world,if you dont believe me -- then dont.

I was LEO in Western NY [ a city ] and it is NOT NYC and I thank the lord it aint.

BUT to visit a place such as that is a total amazing experience - especially Yankee stadium [ the new one rocks ].

ATBackPackin
March 12, 2012, 08:46 PM
Johnny Dollar - I know NYC and I also agree - it has some of the best food. culture, history, and PEOPLE of any place in this country

I also found an interesting tidbit on Wikipedia about arrests being made at NYC airports for the possession of otherwise legally owned, stored, and checked firearms (scroll down to the non-resident section):

What a city. Who wouldn't want to visit and spend their hard earned money in a city where the LEO's are told to harass and arrest law abiding citizens.

Oh and to presume that NYC is the only place in this country where one can become educated or cultured is beyond arrogant.

CollinLeon
March 12, 2012, 08:47 PM
After reading your experience in NYC, <deleted>... It's difficult to believe that the sheeple up there allow that sort of infringements upon their natural born rights as free men to bear arms...

Last time I had the misfortune to fly into NYC, I carried, but I was not willing to find out how little NYC respected the Constitution, so I disassembled my handgun and sent it back home via UPS right before I drove to the airport. You would think that if NYC hated firearms so much, they would be glad that you were taking one out of their "city".

I have no respect for the LEOs who are enforcing the NYC regulations on firearms. These regulations are obviously unconstitutional since they clearly violate the SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED clause of the 2nd Amendment. To enforce these regulations, the officers are obviously morally-challenged at least. Of course, they will claim that they are just "doing their job" or "just following orders". Well, that excrement did not go over at Nuremberg and it doesn't fly now either. I avoid NY as much as possible, but if I'm there, I carry.

Pat M
March 12, 2012, 08:54 PM
By the way, you will also spend the night at Rikers if a NYPD officer spots the pocket clip of your folding knife. I actually got nervous on line at the Museum of Natural History because of my 3.25 inch Gerber in my pocket. Oh what a city.

heeler
March 12, 2012, 08:58 PM
Meh...I just finished my supper and this post has severely disturbed my digestion.
Frankly,you could not melt me down and pour me into that place.
Good Lord.

jbkebert
March 12, 2012, 09:00 PM
My wife and I are going to D.C here in a few weeks. I have never been but we are going with family to visit the WWII memorial and Veitnam memorial and others. My wife originally wanted to extend our trip to include NYC. Thank the good lord I was able to talk her out of at least that part of the trip. I have no want or desire to go to either place. Much of my reasoning is that of the OP.

heeler
March 12, 2012, 09:12 PM
^^^ A nerve has been struck.

oneounceload
March 12, 2012, 09:12 PM
Maybe responses to this thread should be limited to those who actually have lived or visited there and not open to folks whose opinion is formed by Fox news, the Simpsons, or NASCAR

heeler
March 12, 2012, 09:14 PM
Or someone who has been there and seen it for what it is??

The Sarge
March 12, 2012, 09:15 PM
LOL. Actually I lived in Boston for ten years, London for 11 and LA for 9 before moving to Grand Cayman. My ranch is still in South Texas. Being called an idiot by you sir is a badge of honor for me.

SharpsDressedMan
March 12, 2012, 09:17 PM
In 1973, while on my honeymoon, we drove from Ohio into NY state with a handgun in the trunk. Interested in just how I should carry or keep the gun (the way I had it was legal in OH and PA), I called the NY sate police and inquired. They replied, "Where are you?" I mmediately hung up, and drove back into PA, as we were just touring at out leisure anyway. I have never been back, and that was 38 years ago. Apparently, bringing a pistol into NY state then even required a license and such.

infmp32
March 12, 2012, 09:17 PM
The High Road. This thread's taking it.

heeler
March 12, 2012, 09:29 PM
Let's face it people.
Anytime someone feels like the home turf they are from is being bashed your gonna get a reaction(sorry sir for my poor grammar) whether it's NYC,Chicago,or south Texas(best deer hunting,hog hunting,varmint hunting in the world)whatever the case.
Frankly I would like to see NYC join most of us in America but at this time that is not in the cards.

CollinLeon
March 12, 2012, 09:32 PM
Difficult to believe that someone would actually defend some place like NYC... If it is so great, why did they move away from it?

ArfinGreebly
March 12, 2012, 09:34 PM
Gettin' kinda personal, aren't we lads?

Could we maybe set aside the personal jabs and insults and talk about, oh, I dunno, guns? Gun rights? Gun laws and regulations? Gun restrictions? Procedures for carrying guns in restrictive places?

I think this thread has just about used up my quota of gratuitous personal attacks for the week.

Tell you what, let's drop the insults and trash talk, and I won't bother going back through the thread to figure out who gets which infractions.

Deal?

oneounceload
March 12, 2012, 09:40 PM
deal

The War Wagon
March 12, 2012, 09:46 PM
I all fairness, I've also seen The Godfather on numerous occasions. Back when the heads of the five familes were running things - now THAT would've been a GREAT time to go back and see NYC.

Ditto for Gangs of New York and 1863. The notion of a Confederate New Yawk is intriguing! :D

230therapy
March 12, 2012, 09:52 PM
Well, as someone who lives about 40 miles east of NYC, who shot in a highpower match yesterday, and fired 100 rnds through my new NY neutered AK, some of us are still putting up the good fight. We are currently dealing with an attempt by the dems in the state assembly to add micro-stamping to the state budget bill. They are also attempting to ban all magazines over 10 rounds, including those manufactured prior to 1994. Where is the NRA? Good question. I suppose they are choosing to fight the battles they can win.

There have been recent discussions on our local forums about the same situation that the OP went through at LaGuardia. Unlike every other airport in the U.S., the airlines here feel obligated to involve NY Port Authority Police in a process that should be handled by the TSA. Properly licensed NY residents have put up with the harassment, but have made it clear that they are not violating any laws. I suppose it is more complicated for non-residents passing through the city's airports.

You were shooting at the wrong targets. There is only one way to get the right to keep and bear arms in New York. Nothing will change until you stand up and and threaten the politicians. They will fold immediately because they know they only rule based upon consent.

Now, I do respect that you're trying to work within the law. Unfortunately, you're fighting a state constitution that lacks the right to keep and bear arms, a variety of state laws, and a whole bunch of really weird Federal laws and rulings designed to get around the Second Amendment.

Part of what is holding back the gun grabbers in Illinois is the southern counties have made it clear they will not accept more gun control laws. Perhaps the rural counties of New York need to do the same. It would be very nice to see a group of county executives and sheriffs stand up to New York City and threaten to refuse to enforce any gun laws. One hundred thousand people refusing the laws would send the politicians into a panic. We have not seen massive, systemic violence in this country since 1865 and any political/organizational knowledge regarding dealing with it is long forgotten. The reaction of ONE man openly carrying a handgun at an Obama protest showed me everything these people do is built on a house of cards.

Fortunately, SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) is initiating a case that challenges the use of the commerce clause to get around other amendments to the Constitution (see one of the February 2012 Guntalk shows with Allen Gotlieb). The bad commerce clause rulings in the the 1930's are the basis for most of the powers the Federal government has grabbed. I doubt they'll voluntarily undo the source of that power. Maybe I'm cynical, but I've seen enough to believe they'll rule in a very smarmy way. The courts have no interest in preserving liberty; they're only looking to extend their power (and the gravy train) for as long as possible.

I wish it were another way, but we're in this position because good people like you are few and far between in states like New York.

thefish
March 12, 2012, 10:54 PM
This kind of stuff cracks me up here, and i've been lurking for a while.

Sure, I get it, vote with your feet, bla bla bla.
But seriously, everyone who says "i'm never going (insert state here) because I can't carry, and they are missing out on my hard earned money".
Do you really think the NYC or Cali, or wherever, economy is going to suffer because you didn't vacation there?

NYC is one of the greatest cities, and experiences to visit, in the world. I have been there 20+ times, was born there, and I go back every year to see family, and I look forward to it. It's an amazing experience. The first time you get out of the subway in the middle of Chinatown will blow your mind. The mixture of culture is fantastic. I've never been harrassed by anyone. Once you understand that Newyorkers are a different breed, you get it. Newyorkers are some of the most outgoing and friendly people out there, just in a different way than the suggary sweet of the south ( and I grew up in Texas, so I think i'm qualified).

So you can't carry. Take you head out of your ass, practice situational awareness, don't be stupid, and you have a better than 99.9999999999999999999% chance of living through your vacation, trip, whatever.

If you are too afraid, or feeble, or weak, don't go. What's the big deal.

What if you could carry, were mugged, and your weapon was taken from you, or BROKE (mine just did, out of the blue, so don't be fooled that a mechanical device is 100% flawless), or for whatever reason didn't work, what would you do? I just don't get the "if I dont have my weapon, i'm helpless" mentality I hear from some people. Won't you put up a fighting chance?

There are more cops around in Manhattan than any other city i've ever lived in or visited. They are everywhere. That makes me feel pretty safe. Call me a lamb or whatever, I really don't care. But to me the people who are too afraid to go somewhere because they are too afraid are the lambs.

There was a post recently about capitol one credit cards being anti millitary, (which was the most wayward assumption if you ask me). So what, don't like them, change credit cards. It's your choice. So they don't get your 2 grand, big deal. I spend 20k-30k a month on my capital one credit cards, and I don't get special treatment. However, they are by far the best cresit card company I have ever dealt with. So I can't have a picture of a 1911 on my card, I don't care. What I do care about is they do what I pay them to do, watch for fraud, and when there is fraud on my card, they lock it down IMMEDIATELLY, and notify me, and issue me a new card, overnight. To me that's way more important than some picture. Sorry for the tangent.

NYC is amazing, and a place every AMERICAN should go to at least once. Stand at the base of the statue of liberty, walk through Ellis Island, and tell me you don't feel humbled by the courage of the people who came to a new land, to start a new life, escaping persecution by their own country. I doubt 99% of the posters on ThR here could pack up everything they owned into one suitcase, get on a boat, and relocate to somewhere where they had no money, nowhere to live, couldn't speak the language, had no job, and knew no one.

Thats what NYC is all about. Surviving hardship in a cultural melting pot.

If you won't want to go for whatever political, social, or fearful reason, then don't, but you are missing out.

And don't be fooled that by being one of the sheep and joining the herd of "me too, they won't get my hard earned money" will make one bit of difference to NYC. The city will survive.

OK Rant off.

abq87120
March 12, 2012, 11:40 PM
When I lived in the Denver metro area (20+ years), Denver proper wasn't much friendlier than NYC toward gun owners. Open carry? Forget it. I seem to remember you could not transport a gun in your car in Denver. That may have changed. How to you get your rifles out of town to go hunting? I didn't let the door hit me in the ass when I left. Glad to get out of there.

chute2thrill
March 13, 2012, 12:52 AM
You sir. Have incredible patience.

ArfinGreebly
March 13, 2012, 01:05 AM
I grew up in a sleepy little town in northern California.

It's an area rich in resources, and formerly a breeding ground for many successful folk.

I went back a few years ago. The town population is smaller (down from 10,000 to 7,000), many of the Main Street businesses are not just gone, they've been replaced by antique shops. The movie house, Empire Theater, is now Empire Antiques.

Bedford Avenue, once a bustling downtown residential district, is home to a bunch of run-down houses -- one of them actually condemned -- along the street where so many of my childhood friends lived.

Evidently, the city "fathers" elected to turn the town into a "historical district" and many of the places that ought to be alive and vibrant have been mothballed.

I was appalled. There were a handful of businesses in the same place I left them some 35 years before, while others had been replaced by silly boutique shops with a half life of eighteen months, or by nothing at all.


It was in this town that open carry of firearms was completely unremarkable. Shotguns and rifles adorned pickup cabs. July 4th included drill teams with real rifles and pistols, and fast draw demonstrations with honest-to-God vintage six-shooters. A gun on the hip or over the shoulder on Main Street drew no attention beyond wondering whether Chet was gonna get a deer this year.

Today? That town is now part of California, and all that is implied by that.

Commerce has moved out of town. Historical rectitude has been imposed.

I would never move back.

It's beautiful country with an astonishing variety of flora and fauna. It's a place of rich history and tradition.

And I would not live there again.

I am even reluctant to visit, as I am reminded of what it once was, and that loss pains me.


I'm sure New York is lovely. On my mother's side, the traditional "family home" is in neighboring Connecticut, home to the nation's earliest pocket knife manufacturer and to several firearms brands.

As the business and regulatory climates become more restrictive, more of my family leaves the area, and it looks like some of the firearms makers have similarly had enough.

Sure, there's all kinds of rich culture and a vast variety of stuff to see and do.

However, it doesn't seem that liberty is a growth industry there, much like my old home town.

I will miss New York, and I've only been through it a couple of times.

But I won't go back.

The loss of liberty in favor of "culture" pains me.

While I do what little I can to restore what liberty I can, I won't willingly go where liberty has been shackled in the name of safety and security.

Sorry, New York.


On the brighter side, there's a lot to see out here, and most of it wasn't built by Man.

And liberty still has some meaning.

Certaindeaf
March 13, 2012, 01:12 AM
..And liberty still has some meaning.
Amen. Good words all.

stickhauler
March 13, 2012, 01:56 AM
NYC is amazing, and a place every AMERICAN should go to at least once. Stand at the base of the statue of liberty, walk through Ellis Island, and tell me you don't feel humbled by the courage of the people who came to a new land, to start a new life, escaping persecution by their own country. I doubt 99% of the posters on ThR here could pack up everything they owned into one suitcase, get on a boat, and relocate to somewhere where they had no money, nowhere to live, couldn't speak the language, had no job, and knew no one.

Thats what NYC is all about. Surviving hardship in a cultural melting pot.

I might point out the vast majority of those immigrants moved out of that city as soon as possible, many of them moving out into that part of the country the folks who live on either coast call "flyover country." I don't buy into the lame excuse that the comments were simply a reaction to what was considered a slam of NYC. I kind of think the dude actually holds that opinion of anyone who doesn't worship the place. I always felt that fee charged to cross the Delaware Water Gap out by Columbia, NJ was the ransom one had to pay to escape all that insanity.

People survived hardship in many parts of our nation, not just that particular city, and they continue to survive hardships all over this country.

I don't need to travel to NYC to be treated rudely, I have an ex-wife. And for the record, I truly love other parts of New York, there are some absolutely wonderful people in that state. I just somehow never met many of them within the kingdom ruled by Bloomy.

Spaceman Spiff
March 13, 2012, 02:17 AM
I visited Manhattan for the first time in 2010. Perhaps having lived in Cleveland for 7 years and Saint Louis for 6 years has warped my sense of safety but there were cops *everywhere* in NYC and I never felt threatened. Even Times Square at midnight was a veritable McDonald's playground compared to just a few blocks north of me in Saint Louis at this very moment. I think there's a lot of over-stating when it comes to the dangers of NYC, then again, maybe I'm just a hardened thug now (he said tongue in cheek).

I understand the high security at the 9/11 memorial, though. Symbolically it's a major target. To treat the memorial casually right now would be a grave mistake, imo.

JShirley
March 13, 2012, 04:42 AM
Most of this thread is not about firearms at all, it's about whether you love or hate New York. Frankly, I don't care which you feel.

Stay on topic and stop insulting folks in future threads.

John

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