Video games and guns, good or bad for 2A?


PDA






leadcounsel
March 12, 2012, 04:17 AM
Seems that video games get a bad reputation for violence, pro-gun violence, etc.

But... do video games like 1st person shooter games open up interset in gun ownership to kids, so when they are adults they'll buy guns; sorta like old-fashioned playing cops and robbers or Army was when I was a kid (stuff kids don't do anymore)?

And, overall does this help the 2A or harm it?

Lot's of mall-ninjas. Then again, lots of gamers that probably want to own guns who, otherwise, may not have any interest.

If you enjoyed reading about "Video games and guns, good or bad for 2A?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Norom
March 12, 2012, 04:26 AM
Personally I find that it helps the 2A, my girlfriend and siblings took video games not only as just a game but also found reasons why personal protection is necessary. They play games such as Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Battlefield. These games made them look into guns more along with war history. These same effects have happened to many of our friends.

henschman
March 12, 2012, 04:45 AM
I think video games are a good thing. When I was a kid, playing shooter video games like Wolfenstein, Doom, Goldeneye 007, and Rainbow 6 got me more interested in guns. Eventually when I was 15 I talked my parents into buying me a real gun, and I eventually became the firearms enthusiast I am today.

As for the "mall ninja" syndrome, I think all new shooters tend to be a little bit foolish as far as what guns/accessories they think are cool at first. They usually grow out of it after they get a little experience. The important thing is that we keep finding "new blood" to pass our country's wonderful and unique heritage of marksmanship on to.

The-Reaver
March 12, 2012, 05:11 AM
+++++

I grew up on games, games like Metal Gear Solid inspired my dream pistol that I am still yet to own.

The HK Mk23

gym
March 12, 2012, 11:00 PM
Video games are helpfull in showing a wide range of weapons, what they are called and how they are used, to a point. You can take any 12 year old who plays "call of duty" or "modern warfare" and they will tell you every gun used in the game, and which one is better for what.
They have gotten so realistic that I couldn't believe it the first time I played Black ops last year. Is it bad, no, it makes kids aware that guns really kill people, even though it's a game, it's some times their first introduction to firearms, especialy if their parents are anti's and don't really know what the kid is playing. The parents are ultimatelly responsible for what the kid layed out close to a hundred bucks for.

chute2thrill
March 13, 2012, 12:58 AM
First off i think it is good. but of course when they start talking about actual firearms and their capabilities they wind up sounding like goofs.. I have plenty of friends who have never shot anything above .22lr and talking to them gives me a headache..

Spaceman Spiff
March 13, 2012, 02:22 AM
In the 80s movies were a bigger influence on me w/respect to guns. Classic gun porn fests like Commando, Terminator, Rambo, etc. I can see how games would fill that roll these days.

Although I have to say one of the greatest gun porn movies ever, The Matrix, is over 10 years old now, how the heck did that happen?

RhinoDefense
March 13, 2012, 02:26 AM
It makes no difference toward a Constitutional right.

And The-Reaver, I know you like it because of a video game, but the MK23 pistol really sucks. It's an overpriced plastic frame pistol that won't do anything special. Your money, but I know of far better ways to spend two grand.

Ashcons
March 13, 2012, 10:57 AM
I believe that video games had a large psychological effect on my eventual interest in firearms ownership (and related 2A interest), even though I grew up in a small town around guns. Just an unscientific assumption, but I think it has had the same effect on others in my generation who grew up being desensitized to guns-as-evil-things while playing the good guys in video games using guns to take out the bad guys.

Unfortunately, if video games are a gateway into firearm interests, they don't provide the mentoring and training that previous generations' got from a relative who hunted and was happy to pass down that knowledge of safety (sometimes) and outdoor skills, but at least they may be generating the interest and desensitization to MSM and Hollywood's barrage of guns-as-evil-things messages. It's a start.

Cesiumsponge
March 13, 2012, 11:03 AM
People used to blame comic books and rock music for violence before video games. We'll be blaming space ships and virtual reality for youth violence 20 years from now. The gaming industry is now larger than the movie industry and they're played around the world. There is more than enough data to point out any violent trends and that simply isn't the case. Remember when they used to claim Doom was realistic? Anyone fire up an emulator lately to check out these "realistic graphics" from the early 90's?

AethelstanAegen
March 13, 2012, 11:05 AM
Frankly, to me it's probably a wash...some people come out of video games with an enhanced interest in firearms and others come out thinking that a gun only equals someone getting shot or other extremely unrealistic expectations about firearms...it's hard to say which of those two groups outweighs the other. For what it's worth, I have a friend who recently started playing Left 4 Dead 2. She has since asked me to take her to the range which we'll be doing shortly.

daytodaze
March 13, 2012, 03:44 PM
" I grew up on games, games like Metal Gear Solid inspired my dream pistol that I am still yet to own.

The HK Mk23"

Second to this! I eventually settled on a USP, thinking a $2,000 pistol is a bit impractical.

I would have to say that shooting old .22s and .38s with my dad and uncle sparked my interest, and a childhood full of video games nurtured it. Now I'm a collector/shooter/enthusiast. I was taugt from an early age that guns are dangerous, and have lived my life accordigly.

ny32182
March 13, 2012, 03:52 PM
A net positive by far.

Also, the portrayal of the actual capabilities of guns in modern video games is far more realistic than that of 99% of action movies, past or present.

Skribs
March 13, 2012, 04:52 PM
I've been interested in both guns and video games my whole life. I'm probably into a lot of gun-related video games because of my interest in guns, though.

In one of my psych classes, we talked about the media's belief that video games = more school shootings. What the professor believes is the case is that better news media = more school shootings that we hear about, and if you look at crime statistics they actually seem to be dropping overall. Someone who is going to go on a rampage is going to do so 90% of the time because A) they're a sociopath and have no concience or B) because they've snapped (stress at work, school, etc). Then there's those people who have a psychotic break. Video games would only influence people in scenario A, and even then it's their sociopathic tendancies (not the video game) that's at fault.

The Americas Army forum is where I learned most of my information about guns, especially because the game the forums were for was designed by soldiers to be as realistic as possible, within balanced game mechanics.

What does make me laugh, though, is when people use game stats to talk about real-world guns. i.e. using the damage done by a weapon in Counter-Strike as to why you should carry that weapon in real life. "Hmmm, after patch 1.5, I think I want to carry a USP instead of a Sig..."

Cesiumsponge
March 13, 2012, 04:52 PM
I wouldn't say it is more or less realistic than movies. I'm fairly certain if you're clinging to life after being shot, stepping on a first aid kit won't restore your health.

Skribs
March 13, 2012, 05:32 PM
That depends on what game you're playing, Cesium. Lots of games require someone else to use a bandage on you, which usually just stops you from bleeding. Some games actually require thought during the medic process; they'll give a potential battlefield symptom and you have to choose what medical item to use to treat the injury.

It all depends on what movie/video game you're talking about. I'd say Americas Army (game) and Blackhawk Down (movie) are quite realistic. Transporter (movie) and Counter-Strike (game) are very unrealistic. Certain games have different aspects of realism, too. Sniper Elite actually has bullet drop (as do a few newer ones, I believe). Some games practically force use of sights, others don't even have the option to use them.

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 13, 2012, 05:58 PM
I've never really understood the hatred for "mall ninjas". How is it any different than Cowboy Action shooters or Civil War/WWII reenactors? People who aren't soldiers buying weapons or gear that soldiers use/used because it's fun. Doesn't seem like there's any harm in that, whether it be a musket, lever action carbine, Garand, or a SCAR-H. Go wear your spurs or MOLLE vest, blue/grey wool coat or MARPAT jacket, be safe and have fun.

JVaughn
March 13, 2012, 06:19 PM
Wolfenstein, Doom, Goldeneye 007, and Rainbow 6

henschman, I think we had similar childhoods. I can still see the maps for golden eye in my mind. I'm still all out of bubblegum!

thanks for the nostalgia.

Nushif
March 14, 2012, 01:56 PM
Lots of games require someone else to use a bandage on you, which usually just stops you from bleeding.

As a matter of fact, there is a game which I adore, love and play that requires all artillery to have a spotter unless they're doing direct fire, requires on-field medics, technicians and there's many people (much like myself) who actually never go out and hunt for others to shoot at, while gaining the points the whole time. In Planetside (A SciFi FPS) I was doing electronic warfare, repairs and medic jobs and usually only had a pistol on me, just in case. I wasn't a very good artillery spotter, so I stopped that.
Most people poo-pooing videogames as requiring no thought tend to play no thought videogames. Just sayin' ...

It's like people poo-pooing shooting for having no use outside of self defense who don't even know about bullseye or olympic shooting. Not a very informed opinion. OR to use the highroad favorite word: ignorant.

Cesiumsponge
March 14, 2012, 02:29 PM
Or simply because someone doesn't agree, -something- has to be wrong with that individual. There is room for more than one opinion here. No one argued games require no thought to navigate so the rant is aimed at an invisible opponent.

At the end of the day, your skills are still determined using a controller, mouse or keyboard interface unless its a turn-based game. I'm a fan of RTS, RPG, FPS, and all manner of interactive entertainment more than movies because it requires active participation on my part. I've got the AA, MW and BF series, and others, and still see it as entertainment.

Nushif
March 14, 2012, 02:32 PM
I don't think anyone is saying they're not entertainment. But a lot of the arguments about how videogames are utterly worthless as even entertainment are based on Pong.

wannabeagunsmith
March 14, 2012, 02:32 PM
Well just this morning I started up a chat conversation on 'Urban terror' and there were LOTS of rabid anti's claiming that guns are only good for one purpose: killing. So I am not sure, some people take games as real life.

GEM
March 14, 2012, 02:35 PM
1. The connection between video games and producing significant violence in society has been under attack in the psychological literature. It seems tenuous. However, most folks don't follow the most recent things.

2. Playing the games seems to help develop decision making skill in adults, aids neural development in kids and helps maintain abilities in older folks.

Pretty new research.

As far as promoting the 2nd Amend. specifically - don't see evidence of that pro or con.

Nushif
March 14, 2012, 02:37 PM
Well just this morning I started up a chat conversation on 'Urban terror' and there were LOTS of rabid anti's claiming that guns are only good for one purpose: killing. So I am not sure, some people take games as real life.

The term "rabid anti" should explain to you as to why they're not open to lucid arguments.

Not to mention that well, guns were kinda invented to kill. It's pretty hard making an argument that guns were invented for kniting. They throw pieces of stuff very fast very far. These days they're used for all kinds of tests of skills, and arguably throughout the ages it could be argued that the majority of gun usage was probably as a test of skill (although the first world war may throw the statistics off a bit there) ... but claiming the purpose of this broad category of guns is not to kill is arguably not quite true.
Not throwing an anti argument here, but you chatted up a game called "Urban Terror" and expected people to say "Oh, you hunt deer for your famished family treking the Oregon Trail in it?"

Cesiumsponge
March 14, 2012, 02:39 PM
Well they're just crusty old folks :neener: They're completely entertaining.

I think its a wash if folks walk away wiser or more ignorant. I just hesitate when people say its more realistic because I'm tired of the media using that as an excuse to blame things.

mgmorden
March 14, 2012, 02:43 PM
Video games experience a large "anti" sentiment just like guns do (just google Jack Thompson).

From the same perspective, they also share the same simple truth: video games don't kill people - people do. Just was our guns are protected by the second ammendment, video games are protected by the first.

While I'm not into most of the "army" games, I will admit to loving a lot of RPG and strategy type games (Warcraft, Starcraft, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, Planescape: Torment, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy, Grandia, etc).

So, if you're asking if as one wrongfully attacked group we should distance ourselves from another wrongfully attacked group just for PR value, then I'd say definitely no.

Haters gonna hate :).

Nushif
March 14, 2012, 03:06 PM
So, if you're asking if as one wrongfully attacked group we should distance ourselves from another wrongfully attacked group just for PR value, then I'd say definitely no.

Can't say I disagree.

ForumSurfer
March 14, 2012, 03:09 PM
I'm a guy that grew up on 80's movies that helped get me into guns. They displayed horrible safety, blatant violence, anti gun rhetoric and who knows what else.

With all of that, I think today's generation will do just fine with call of duty.

More important than movies or video games is us. WE need to be good parents and teach our children the values of respect, discipline and hard work. Many people don't, and I feel that is the root cause of everything wrong with society today.

Driftertank
March 18, 2012, 10:46 AM
Just saw a comment, and a link, in another thread pertaining to the "CoD effect" and it's effect on gun ownership at large, got me to thinking about how FPS video games have influenced modern gun culture, thought i'd share some experiences.

When i bought my PTR 91, i took it to show it off to a friend of mine, whose 5 year old son commented, "That looks like a G3." Eyebrows went up, and we explained that for all intents a 5 year old woul understand, it was.

Went shooting with a buddy who brought an IT friend who had never so much as touched a gun in real life, wanted to see if he'd like it. He did. 2 days later he called asking about a list of guns he wanted to buy, most of them NFA or import-restricted.

Think we've all seen the kid who walks into the gun store wanting to know where he can get a Glock 18...

Share your experiences, and discuss whether you think the video game culture of guns is a good or bad thing. Think any of these kids will grow up into politicians who want to buy machineguns? Lol

TurtlePhish
March 18, 2012, 10:52 AM
It's good, bad, and ugly. Many kids (and older people, too) are recognizing guns they've seen in video games and thinking they're cool, not scary. However, like you said, many don't know what's actually legal or not. A combination of ignorance and the desire to own can lead to trouble unless we try to educate CoD-ers about the more realistic side of gun ownership. It'd be nice if they ended up pro-MG politicians, though. :D

Bammac
March 18, 2012, 10:52 AM
Ugh. Video games. Combat without consequences is a bad intro to gun ownership, IMHO.

[Edit] To be fair, I did do pretend battle with the Axis in the fields and orchards as a youngster. Maybe I just havent fully kept up with technology.

Driftertank
March 18, 2012, 11:03 AM
Sorry, missed this thread. Thanks for the pertinent move, mod.


Back on topic, when i was a kid, in the age before shooting video games, i'd play "army" with the neighborhood kids. We lived in a woodsy, politically-incorrect mountain town. Later we moved to a California suburb, and i went out with my cammo and toy rifles in a field behind our house with my brother and a neighbor. Rode home in a police car after someone called in a report of "men with guns" in a field. Ugh. Screw CA. lol

Sorry, that wasn't really on topic...

If you enjoyed reading about "Video games and guns, good or bad for 2A?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!