Gun Shop Malpractice?


PDA






Yoda
March 12, 2012, 10:39 PM
I was visiting a new local gun store today. The owner seemed extremely knowledgeable, and the shop had a small but varied inventory.

A customer entered and explained that he had just moved into Florida from one of those northeastern states where gun ownership is difficult and discouraged. He'd never owned or handled a gun, but now he wanted one.

The customer said that he'd done some on-line research, and he thought a Ruger P-89 was just the thing he wanted. And that's what the gun shop owner sold him.

The problem was that this guy's fingers were so short that I initially thought he'd had some sort of crippling accident or genetic defect. I've never seen such short fingers, on a man or a woman or even on a child. I'm not exaggerating when I say that his middle finger was shorter than my pinkie. Thus, it seemed to me that the P-89 was clearly too large for his hand.

OK, maybe I was out of line, but I tactfully suggested that the two of them consider one of the newer pistols with removable grip inserts. My suggestion went nowhere. The new guy and the gun shop owner went ahead with the sale of the Ruger, as certainly was their right.

So, slam me for butting in, but also give me your thoughts on whether a gun shop owner should sell a newbie what he asks for, or should an experienced gun dealer take time to explain to a newbie that something else might be better.

Fire away.

- - - Yoda

=========================

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun Shop Malpractice?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Frozen North
March 12, 2012, 10:47 PM
From my experience, there is nothing worse than a gunshop owner who knows what I want better than I do. It sounds like the customer did his research and made his decision. If the customer does not ask for advice, it is generally unwanted.

I bought a Ruger LC9 about two weeks ago. The guy behind the counter would not just shut up and sell me one. He was determined to sell me a CW9 Kahr. It was sickening.

gym
March 12, 2012, 10:52 PM
If someone walks in and asks for a particular gun, and you have it to sell, you sell it to them. Not to be krass, but it's no ones job to get between a man and how he spends his money.In this case he got exactlly what he wanted, hard to beat that.
The amount of time and effort required to talk a man out of something he decided upon is not our business. It's like the car business, a guy wants a red corvette and you have one in stock, you sell it to him. Your intent is well meant but best to stay out of it at that point, or risk losing the gun store owner and the buyers respect. If he didn't ask for your opinion, leave it alone, of you might kill the store owners only sale of the day. If he doesn't like it, he will figure it out on his own.

jimmyraythomason
March 12, 2012, 11:01 PM
Had a friend who went into Ace Hardware(the HELPFUL hardware store) to buy some plumbing supplies for a project. My friend had already figured it out and knew what he wanted. The "helpful" clerk kept on pushing other parts saying this is what you need. Eventually my friend (vietnam marine vet) had enough and said "that may be what I need but it's not what I want!". If the dealer has what the customer asks for then that is what he should sell him. If the customer finds that he has made a poor choice,perhaps he'll bring it back and trade for something more fitting.

hso
March 12, 2012, 11:38 PM
The customer is always right is a truism in sales, but the seller has to gauge whether the customer is open to suggestions and information before running them off to take their business to someone who will give them what they want.

We have the same issue here. An inexperienced shooter asks about a gun and endless people reinforce or offer suggestions without knowing anything about whether the gun fits them or not. Some folks get very defensive when their ideas are not supported by others and downright offended when it is suggested that they handle different firearms outside of what they want to find out if it better fits their needs.

DammitBoy
March 12, 2012, 11:42 PM
Not everything needs our input, regardless of the quality of our sage advice...

o Unforgiven o
March 12, 2012, 11:45 PM
What gun shop was this?

InfamousLegend
March 13, 2012, 02:15 AM
The only time a shop owner should suggest another gun is when the customer is visually inexperienced and they're purchasing a caliber out of their capabilities. Also when a gun would not physically rest in their hands and have a firm grip. I don't want to see someone with very small hands try to grip a large frame handgun and not be able to fire it safely because they cannot physically grip it. Although that is only a problem if they request a gun obviously to large for them. Opinions in large part on my behalf are largely overlooked unless the salesman or woman is very knowledgeable and isn't just stating an opinion. I'm lucky and a local gun shop bear me has two very knowledgeable salesmen, although I have only worked with one of them. The other my brother has worked with.

RhinoDefense
March 13, 2012, 02:20 AM
A good FFL will sell the customer what they want. I great FFL will sell the customer what fits their needs and their abilities within their budget.

cyclopsshooter
March 13, 2012, 02:45 AM
It infuriates me (on the inside) when a customer tries to help. I know they are just being friendly and don't hold it against them... But I'm WORKIN here for cryin out loud! Do I show up at your work and start helpin?

kd7nqb
March 13, 2012, 02:54 AM
my thoughts are that my input on gun purchases belong on gun blogs, gun forums, gun clubs, gun ranges, but NOT gun shops.

InfamousLegend
March 13, 2012, 03:59 AM
RhinoDefense, my thoughts exactly. But showing someone what they need does not happen as often as ita shouldcomes because there are far more gun salesmen with opinions than there are with experience.

blarby
March 13, 2012, 06:38 AM
I agree with cyclops.

Its apparent the guy did his due diligence. I'm sure the FFL let him handle the piece, not sold him a closed box.

I've been in sales across multiple product types in my lifetime....going back to selling crafting paints knee-high to my grandmother at state fairs.

I can't count the money I've lost because folks ( not the buyer ) want to "help" with their "knowledge" of either my product, or the buyers desire or intent....I can't count it, BECAUSE I NEVER GOT IT.

If you wan't to "help", either fill out an application, or setup shop on your own.

Sorry to come across cross, but thems the breaks in my book..... you might cost someone their grocery money next time.

my thoughts are that my input on gun purchases belong on gun blogs, gun forums, gun clubs, gun ranges, but NOT gun shops.

Thats pretty good :)

CajunBass
March 13, 2012, 06:50 AM
It never ceases to amaze me, just how few people know how to mind their own business.

bannockburn
March 13, 2012, 06:53 AM
Yoda

Having worked on the other side of the counter, I can tell you nothing is more annoying than having another customer butt in on your sale. Unless the customer asks you for your input, kindly stay out the conversation. Sorry to be blunt about it, but if you want to give great advice, open your own gunshop. Let the salesman and the customer do their business transaction and then it will be your turn.

Sav .250
March 13, 2012, 06:59 AM
The customer did his "home-work" on the issue so I`d say, he knew what he wanted. That`s not to say he really knew what he wanted. :)

fallout mike
March 13, 2012, 08:13 AM
Cajunbass said it best.

pockets
March 13, 2012, 08:37 AM
I did that one time. I learned my lesson from that one time.
When I'm in a shop, I'm a 'customer', period.
Unless someone specifically and directly asks me a question, I'll keep my opinions to myself.

.

Loosedhorse
March 13, 2012, 08:42 AM
It's tough when keeping silent seems to be fostering a tragedy. ;)

However, by piping up, you are implying at least one of several things:

1. The gun salesman isn't aware that there are handguns available with a shorter LOP or grip width.
2. The customer is unaware of the shortness of his fingers.
3. The gun salesman is trying to cheat the customer; and the customer is too dumb to figure it out.

Not sure there's a lot of room there for your good intentions to shine through. :o

If a customer is handling a gun I like, I have no problem saying (uninvited) "Those are great. I really like mine." Otherwise, it's "Some weather, huh?" :D

LT.Diver
March 13, 2012, 08:51 AM
Caveat emptor!

303tom
March 13, 2012, 08:54 AM
There are two rules to the customer being right.

Rule Number One; The Customer is ALWAYS right.

Rule Number Two; Refer To Rule Number One.

Ranger30-06
March 13, 2012, 08:58 AM
There are two rules to the customer being right.

Rule Number One; The Customer is ALWAYS right.

Rule Number Two; Refer To Rule Number One.


That's usually true until customers try to buy/rent your personal equipment while at work... Trust me, I know.

JRH6856
March 13, 2012, 09:40 AM
So the guy had unusually short fingers. That may seem a disability in your eyes, and might be a disability for you if your fingers were suddenly shortened, but they guy has had those fingers all his life. They are normal for him. Your fingers OTOH, are unusually long.

Really, people with disabilities learn to compensate and overcome them. He may come up with a grip that is totally different from anything any of us have ever seen and shoot lights out.

jimmyraythomason
March 13, 2012, 09:43 AM
My wife's very short fingers have no trouble at all shooting any of my Ruger P pistols. She is very accurate with the P90 and loves to shoot it and my S&W 29-2. Adapt and overcome.

Vector
March 13, 2012, 10:12 AM
it infuriates me (on the inside) when a customer tries to help. I know they are just being friendly and don't hold it against them... But i'm workin here for cryin out loud! Do i show up at your work and start helpin?


:D:D:D

35Rem
March 13, 2012, 11:07 AM
<Yoda voice> Your own business, you should mind.
:D

All kidding aside, you can make an enemy of the gun shop owner this way, as stated above. He's trying to sell what he has first. Sounds like a perfect situation for him. Customer comes in, says "I want X." Salesman says "I just happen to have X right here!" Everyone's happy.

We all have to learn what works for us and what doesn't.

fallout mike
March 13, 2012, 11:14 AM
I'm thinking the force is not with yoda on this one!

Red Cent
March 13, 2012, 11:41 AM
Well, I realize a couple of my toes hurt. But it is hard to not say anything.

The Lone Haranguer
March 13, 2012, 12:40 PM
Few things are unappreciated more than unsolicited advice.

BSA1
March 13, 2012, 12:41 PM
And by recommending a gun that the owner does not have in stock you have cost him a sale and a customer.

Sorry Pard but this thread is going against you.

JRH6856
March 13, 2012, 12:56 PM
give me your thoughts on whether a gun shop owner should sell a newbie what he asks for, or should an experienced gun dealer take time to explain to a newbie that something else might be better.

A business should give the customer what he asks for. If he asks for advice, give him advice. If he asks for a specific item, sell him the item.

If the knowledgeable seller is certain that the customer has made a poor choice, the seller might ask if he can suggest something that might be more suited to the customer's needs, but if the customer doesn't want advice, don't force it on him. And if it seems that wrong, the seller can always just refuse to make the sale.

crracer_712
March 13, 2012, 12:56 PM
Only time, as a customer/browser, that I have ever said anything between a potential customer and the clerk, is to comment on what I liked about whatever gun they were looking at. If I don't have the gun in question, I don't say anything.

mgmorden
March 13, 2012, 12:57 PM
This is one of the other great reasons to buy online (be it guns or anything else). No worry about a gun shop owner or an armchair quarterback telling you why you don't really want the item you've picked out.

Resist Evil
March 13, 2012, 01:18 PM
Some people really want to help because they like to share in the enthusiasm of a new gun purchase. Some people are psychopathic, supercilious, over-educated, know-it-all buttinskis who can't wait to tell their whole life story with guns. At the gun counter, I am the first type, but am fearful of being perceived as some version of the second. As a result, I never overlook the opportunity to shut up.

I say mind your business, let them tend theirs, and move along. There are simply too many avenues of factual information, as well as opinions, available to anybody researching about firearms today for someone to believe one's own interjection is somehow critical or essential to the purchase process by another.

jimmyraythomason
March 13, 2012, 01:23 PM
The customer said that he'd done some on-line research, and he thought a Ruger P-89 was just the thing he wanted. And that's what the gun shop owner sold him.

Nothing more needed or asked for. Happy transaction,end of story.

BP Hunter
March 13, 2012, 02:33 PM
If you are like me, you visit the same gunstores regularly and the employees know you.

A couple of times, I see buyers who seem to be new into handgunning and ask the employee many questions. I can't help but like to help out especially when the employee runs out of answers. At times, I politely ask if I can make recommendations but many times, the employee who knows me just tells the buyer, "Ask him, he knows alot about guns." I actually get a very positive appreciative comment from the buyer. But I never like to second guess the guy behind the counter. It's not polite and sometimes insulting.

exiledtoIA
March 13, 2012, 02:41 PM
My response would have been " Are YOU paying for this or am I?".
If you aren't paying and you weren't asked by either party STFU.

gym
March 13, 2012, 02:46 PM
I might make an exception, if the clerk gave you the nod, and you upsold someone. Meaning you moved him to a more expensive gun that was in stock, and were good enough in sales to do this without blowing the sale. i am, because I am used to closing other peoples deals, owning a GYM, we call it a TO. "so do many others" where the third party is just another voice that is sometimes needed to close the customer. But this is for pro's not for people who aren't in sales.
You need to be able to overcome every objection before you start. But normally as I said earlier, no. You should not get involved.

fallout mike
March 13, 2012, 03:00 PM
So you are helping out by talking a customer into a higher priced gun if the sales guy gives you the "nod" bc you are a pro? I fail to see how that is helping anybody out. You have no clue what that shop may have in a particular gun. Just bc one costs more doesn't mean they will make more money on it or that its what the customer wants. None of that makes sense.

Fishslayer
March 13, 2012, 03:07 PM
I bought a Ruger LC9 about two weeks ago. The guy behind the counter would not just shut up and sell me one. He was determined to sell me a CW9 Kahr. It was sickening.


Those Kahr's aren't gonna move themselves, ya know...;)

jimmyraythomason
March 13, 2012, 03:57 PM
if the clerk gave you the nod, and you upsold someone. Meaning you moved him to a more expensive gun that was in stock, and were good enough in sales to do this without blowing the sale. i am, because I am used to closing other peoples deals, owning a GYM, we call it a TO. "so do many others" where the third party is just another voice that is sometimes needed to close the customer. But this is for pro's not for people who aren't in sales.
That sounds an awful lot like being a schill.

c1ogden
March 13, 2012, 08:10 PM
I don't agree that the customer is always right. IF the store owner really knew his stuff, AND as long as customer counseling and not selling a higher profit item are his motiviation, I see no problem with pointing out the benefit of a properly fitting gun, especially when such a poor fit could easily be a major safety hazard. I wouldn't refuse to sell him what he wants but I would make him aware that better/safer alternatives exist. I wouldn't want it on my conscience that he got hurt or hurt someone else because I failed to point out an unsafe condition.

trex1310
March 13, 2012, 08:34 PM
A good FFL will sell the customer what they want. I great FFL will sell the customer what fits their needs and their abilities within their budget.


And that's what puts great FFLs out of business. Out of curiosity,
how does a great FFL ascertain a total stranger's needs and
abilities within their budget?

Cosmoline
March 13, 2012, 09:22 PM
Dealers have no duty to prevent bad choices. It may be in their business interest to do so, but the use of the word "malpractice" is entirely inappropriate. The relationship is buyer-seller and nothing more. The duty of good faith and fair dealing doesn't mandate advice on what to buy.

happygeek
March 13, 2012, 10:35 PM
The original post confuses me; so you were just hanging out in a gun store eavesdropping on a customer's conversation?

orionengnr
March 13, 2012, 11:05 PM
One day I stood by and watched some poor dumb SOB with more money than brains buy both a Colt New Agent and an S&W Scandium 360.

The guy doing the selling was a self-procaimed "high-speed, low drag" operator who made claims that were ludicrous, but the customer was eating it up.

I kept my mouth shut, but having owned a number of 3" 1911s plus at least three Scandium .357s, I know that their utility is fairly limited and they are not guns for the uninitiated (and many of the initiated shun them as well).

Nobody asked my opinion, so I did not offer it, but I walked out of there with a sick feeling, and the vision of a lamb being fleeced...and have not been back to that shop since.

If I ever find myself in that position again, I fear that I will have a bit of a hard time holding my tongue...

Optimistic advertising is one thing, "puffery" is a legal advertising term...but flat out BS is something else.

Kingofthehill
March 13, 2012, 11:06 PM
Very rarely will i say anything, and when i do its typically at a junk big box store that doesn't know anything. Also i should say that it its never suggesting a new gun, but it disgusts me to no end when idiots don't know basic information and blatantly tell lies to try and sound knowledgeable.

when i say rarely, im talking once a year??? and it has to be pretty ridiculous to open my mouth.

I have worked at a gun shop and i always found it funny when someone opened their pie hole with just DUMB suggestions i just usually smiled and said "ANYWAYS...."

so many idiots it sometimes went against everything in me to actually sell some people a firearm. I always suggested training... and if they ever answered "I would but money's tight. I would always meet them at the range to help them free of charge.

Not enough people have proper guidance when buying a gun let alone know or understand the 4 rules of firearm safety.

Bubba613
March 13, 2012, 11:09 PM
1) Nothing infuriates me more than amateur gun salesmen. (OK other things infuriate me more, but that's beside the point).
2) I have seen many customers who "did their research on the internet." They know less than before they started. Before they started they at least knew they didnt know anything. When a customer comes in wanting something totally unsuitable I typically ask why they want that. From there I try to establish what their needs actually are and what gun will best suit all those needs, including their budget. I have many happy and grateful customers.
OCcasionally I come across one who just knows he's right and I'm wrong because after all, he saw it on the internet and did his research. All I can do is ask, do you need any ammo with that?

Inebriated
March 13, 2012, 11:13 PM
If the opportunity arises for me to share some knowledge, I will. But I rarely go out of my way to help anyone.



That sounds so bad to say lol.

gym
March 13, 2012, 11:49 PM
When I say nod, I mean he approves of me giving my input rather than budding in. In my friends gunstore he knows i know as much about what's out there and been able to explain things better than most, having been in sales, and around pistols for 50 years .
Sometimes a salesman can't get any further with a customer, and a second voice is required. Having sold many guns to folks while waiting around friends stores, they trust that I won't blow the sale and am more likely to close the sale faster than their employee.
Why don't I work there, simple, they can't afford to pay me what I make. But if I am there and can help, I would gladlly do it for free. I know I am more likelly to fit the right gun to the client, than a 20 year old kid.
If you ever sold for a living , you know certain triggers that move people close or further away. You also know if you can move someone into better gun for a few dollars more.
When you sell millions of dollars of gym memberships, you get a feel for what someone wants. It was very common for me to upsell a client, "very hard to do" but some salesmen who work on commision will sell the client anything just to get their commision, usually the cheapest, not the best for them. This way they know they are getting something,
You aren't doing anyone a favor by saving then a few bucks and getting them the wrong product. Sure that guy may go for the $200 dollar gun because it's cheap, but if you point out the benifits of the better gun you will have a happier client. Usually you will hear things like "I didn't know that, or no one ever bothered to explain the difference to me before" that's what makes a good sale and a happy customer. simple handoffs like he has that gun , tell him what your experience with it was, well I liked this and that but not nearlly as much as this model, because, "list reasons.
Most people fall into 2 catagories, the guy who knows exactlly what he wants, and the searcher. The guy who knows what he wants is really usually interested in price and avaiability, the searcher really needs an explanation as to what the differences are. I would rather have someone explain something to me that I didn't know, than make a mistake, or have a salesman who just agreed with everything I said. Show the client what's available in his range if he isn't sure. I buy guns at deep discounts simplly because the person can't operate them. They bought a 1911, and it jams stovepipes etc, There is nothing wrong with the gun. It's the inability of the client to operate it properlly. He got the wrong gun period.

cyclopsshooter
March 13, 2012, 11:51 PM
A couple of times, I see buyers who seem to be new into handgunning and ask the employee many questions. I can't help but like to help out especially when the employee runs out of answers. At times, I politely ask if I can make recommendations but many times, the employee who knows me just tells the buyer, "Ask him, he knows alot about guns." I actually get a very positive appreciative comment from the buyer. But I never like to second guess the guy behind the counter. It's not polite and sometimes insulting.

This is acceptable if I know you- But there are only 3 or 4 I know well enough to not mind. I hope you're one of em :D

TennJed
March 14, 2012, 02:29 AM
Try suggestions in all settings, not just a gun shop.

In the supermarket butt in on a customer and butcher and suggest a "better cut of meat"
Stop by a car dealership and recommend what you like to a customer and salesman.
Set down at a desk of a Investment Officer and preach the virtues of FDIC insurance.

My point is we may know better or we may think we know better but we are not in the position to do that. If you know engough to make suggestions over the clerk then maybe you should consider opening your own shop. Untill then let them go about their business

fallout mike
March 14, 2012, 07:51 AM
What tennjed said. Also, those of you that do it bc of your concern for human life, go to your local car dealerships and suggest to the buyers to take a defensive driving course or offer to do it yourself. Careless drivers kill many more people than careless gun owners.

gym
March 14, 2012, 11:26 AM
That's not always true, as I had a investment counsler fired for selling annuities to 80+ year old widows in NY. He got a much larger commission. They convinced my mom and aunt 98 this week, to purchase an annuity, that locked their money up for 6 years with stiff penalties for early withdrawal. They were stealing to make it short.I notified the bank president and he agreed they should be taking distributions now not buying annuities.
So please don't tell me that "professionals" know better. I traded 12 hours day for 13 years. I now every vechicle, and product, out there for intrest bearing stocks bonds funds insurance etc, The woman at the bank told my mother "you should listen to your son on this, he knows a lot more that we do. They only sell their banks products for the most part. So you can'r make a ststement like that because it's false.
Plus they never told them that their money was no longer insured. My mom never puts anything in a non FDIC insured account, butthey get greedt and for 1 or 2 points can make a life changing mistake from information given by the so called professional.
My dad used to say, look at a mans shoes you can tell a lot about man, a nice suit covers up a lot of things.

fallout mike
March 14, 2012, 12:22 PM
So why the big step forward from being a stock trader to a gym membership trader?

xfyrfiter
March 14, 2012, 12:38 PM
The customer may not always be right, BUT he always writes your paycheck, by spending money on goods or services you have for sale.

Bubba613
March 14, 2012, 01:13 PM
If the customer ends up with a gun that is too big, too small, etc and does not meet his needs, whom will he blame for his mistake? Hint, it isn't the internet.

JRH6856
March 14, 2012, 01:19 PM
If the customer ends up with a gun that is too big, too small, etc and does not meet his needs, whom will he blame for his mistake? Hint, it isn't the internet.

If he got what he asked for and he's honest, he'll blame himself.

CountryUgly
March 14, 2012, 02:12 PM
I did this very thing ONCE.....woops....the customer liked my opinion and the gun store didn't have it in stock. The customer came into the store with every intention of buying a gun that was on the shelf I opened my big mouth and the customer left without spending a dime. Even though the shop owner actually agreed with my recommendation he promptly showed me the door and refused to sell me another gun for a very looong time. We have since mended the fences and he insist that I pay sticker price for guns until I make up the difference I cost him that day. To this day if i'm standing around shooting the breeze with him and ANYONE walks in the door he tells me well I gotta get to work and I'm SURE you got somewhere else you got to be...Point is keep your mouth shut...

TennJed
March 14, 2012, 02:15 PM
That's not always true, as I had a investment counsler fired for selling annuities to 80+ year old widows in NY. He got a much larger commission. They convinced my mom and aunt 98 this week, to purchase an annuity, that locked their money up for 6 years with stiff penalties for early withdrawal. They were stealing to make it short.I notified the bank president and he agreed they should be taking distributions now not buying annuities.
So please don't tell me that "professionals" know better. I traded 12 hours day for 13 years. I now every vechicle, and product, out there for intrest bearing stocks bonds funds insurance etc, The woman at the bank told my mother "you should listen to your son on this, he knows a lot more that we do. They only sell their banks products for the most part. So you can'r make a ststement like that because it's false.
Plus they never told them that their money was no longer insured. My mom never puts anything in a non FDIC insured account, butthey get greedt and for 1 or 2 points can make a life changing mistake from information given by the so called professional.
My dad used to say, look at a mans shoes you can tell a lot about man, a nice suit covers up a lot of things.
i understand where you are coming from, but we are talking about 2 different things. You know the customer and their siruation and what you are describing warrents you to report it.

I am talking about a 3rd party woth no prior knowledge of the customer envolving themselves in the conversation

jimmyraythomason
March 14, 2012, 02:17 PM
If the customer ends up with a gun that is too big, too small, etc and does not meet his needs, whom will he blame for his mistake? Hint, it isn't the internet. The customer said that he'd done some on-line research, and he thought a Ruger P-89 was just the thing he wanted. And that's what the gun shop owner sold him.
I'm sorry...what was the question again??

Teachu2
March 14, 2012, 02:38 PM
That's not always true, as I had a investment counsler fired for selling annuities to 80+ year old widows in NY. He got a much larger commission. They convinced my mom and aunt 98 this week, to purchase an annuity, that locked their money up for 6 years with stiff penalties for early withdrawal. They were stealing to make it short.I notified the bank president and he agreed they should be taking distributions now not buying annuities.
So please don't tell me that "professionals" know better. I traded 12 hours day for 13 years. I now every vechicle, and product, out there for intrest bearing stocks bonds funds insurance etc, The woman at the bank told my mother "you should listen to your son on this, he knows a lot more that we do. They only sell their banks products for the most part. So you can'r make a ststement like that because it's false.
Plus they never told them that their money was no longer insured. My mom never puts anything in a non FDIC insured account, butthey get greedt and for 1 or 2 points can make a life changing mistake from information given by the so called professional.
My dad used to say, look at a mans shoes you can tell a lot about man, a nice suit covers up a lot of things.

Too bad Dad didn't tell you what a man's written words say about him. My apologies if English is not your first language.

GoWolfpack
March 14, 2012, 03:03 PM
I did this very thing ONCE.....woops....the customer liked my opinion and the gun store didn't have it in stock. The customer came into the store with every intention of buying a gun that was on the shelf I opened my big mouth and the customer left without spending a dime. Even though the shop owner actually agreed with my recommendation he promptly showed me the door and refused to sell me another gun for a very looong time. We have since mended the fences and he insist that I pay sticker price for guns until I make up the difference I cost him that day. To this day if i'm standing around shooting the breeze with him and ANYONE walks in the door he tells me well I gotta get to work and I'm SURE you got somewhere else you got to be...Point is keep your mouth shut...
Sounds like the owner is a real bastard not worth knowing or spending money with.

fallout mike
March 14, 2012, 03:12 PM
Why, bc some know it all customer costs him a sale?

Alec
March 14, 2012, 03:25 PM
Deleted by poster

Bubba613
March 14, 2012, 10:24 PM
If he got what he asked for and he's honest, he'll blame himself.
Yeah that happens.

GoWolfpack
March 15, 2012, 08:31 AM
Why, bc some know it all customer costs him a sale?
So some know-it-all customer cost him one sale, but gave the non-customer a real positive experience and made him think the owner cared about what was best for him and not just the sale. I wish I got the impression from my LGS that they cared about anything but selling me something.

Then again, if somebody refused to do their job and take my money in exchange for their products, I wouldn't feel the need to push the issue. Too many fish in the sea to put that kind of effort into it.

fallout mike
March 15, 2012, 09:22 AM
So, all of our guns are the perfect fit for us? I think most of us have guns that we think are , just alright. Let me come to your place of business and cside you to lose money out of your check and see how happy you are with me.

jimmyraythomason
March 15, 2012, 09:31 AM
non-customer a real positive experience Non-customers don't pay the rent regardless of how positive their non-buying experience was.

GoWolfpack
March 15, 2012, 09:37 AM
Non-customers don't pay the rent regardless of how positive their non-buying experience was.
Happy non-customers often come back and become regular paying customers. Unhappy customers are usually one-time customers.

But that's just my opinion. Everybody has the right to screw up as much as they want, I've got the right to ignore it.

fallout mike
March 15, 2012, 09:38 AM
Jimmy, that doesn't matter. Its the gun shops job to educate every potential buyer of every gun on the market. That's like going to buy a new chevy 4x4 and the salesman telling you that based on your needs you would be better off going down to the Ford dealership

fallout mike
March 15, 2012, 09:40 AM
But hey, based on that positive non buying experience they may come and buy a chevy from you 4 or 5 years later when lts paid off.

Ranger30-06
March 15, 2012, 09:46 AM
Jimmy, that doesn't matter. Its the gun shops job to educate every potential buyer of every gun on the market. That's like going to buy a new chevy 4x4 and the salesman telling you that based on your needs you would be better off going down to the Ford dealership
Only difference here between a car dealership and a gun store is that the Chevy gun store also sells Fords, Dodges, VW's, Honda's, and Toyota's.



Regardless, it would be smart to keep your mouth shut unless the dealer was giving some obviously dangerous information, like the story not to long ago about the clerk claiming it was okay to shoot .357 ammo in a .38 Special gun. If the buyer knows what he wants, leave it to the clerk to make a suggestion, not yourself. He's the one with the FFL, not a couple guys who heard about it on the internetz.

JohnBT
March 15, 2012, 07:45 PM
Am I the customer or the salesperson? Then butt out is my philosophy. MYOB.

I've had gun shop staff ask if I knew something or other about a particular model when I was just standing around looking at guns, but I didn't get involved in the sales pitch, price negotiation or anything else. If they want my opinion they can ask. They could pay me, but then I'd have to work.

John

DammitBoy
March 15, 2012, 10:02 PM
MYOB

the world would be a better place with more of that

CZguy
March 15, 2012, 10:10 PM
Since I do not possess any of gym's skills in sales, I have gotten very far in life by only sharing my opinion when I'm asked. ;)

Yoda
March 17, 2012, 01:21 AM
I asked for your views, and you all gave them. I listened, and today I went back to the gun shop and apologized.

The dealer said he didn't recall me getting out of line, but maybe he was just being nice. Before I left, I put some money down on a new gun.

For what it's worth, a few years ago, in a different store, I was listening to a customer ask some very specific questions, and the salesman was blowing smoke. He was trying to sell her a .22 revolver for self defense in the home. She asked if she could use it to shoot an attacker through a bedroom or bathroom door. Rather than answer her question, he just told her that she could load it with rat shot, and that would "surprise and scare" any intruder.

What would you do in THAT situation?

- - - Yoda

blarby
March 17, 2012, 01:37 AM
Very well done, Yoda.

Its a mark of a real man who can recognize his faults.

You did the right thing.




As to the last part........its still dangerous territory. We know that a 22lr isn't optimal for self defense, and that ratshot certainly isnt either. Without context or intonation, I'd almost consider that line a joke. Not being there, I can't tell. ( For the record, in any and all fairness to the dealers stupidity if that wasn't a joke....mebbe she couldn't handle a larger weapon.... I have seen 22's sail through drywall, and hollowcore doors at the range)

Maybe this is why I don't involve myself in others' sales transactions.... It's often better not knowing how some folks make a living.... Thats a sad statement, but true.

If you were there, and someones safety was in jeopardy, and you made a call to "buck up" and say something, I wouldn't hold it against ya. I doubt anyone reasonably could... its safety, after all.

blarby
March 17, 2012, 01:48 AM
Ya know, I thought about that one for a second or two...

And if I couldn't tell right away it was a joke...YA, I would say something too.

Matters of preference and upselling are one thing, but thats just not right.

cyclopsshooter
March 17, 2012, 02:02 AM
What would you do in THAT situation?

damn good question!

i too applaud you going back and standing up. honor like that is lost to most people.. im not surprised he said he didn't remember, he was likely off to his next customer in short order.. and its not healthy to dwell on the small stuff :)

lefteyedom
March 17, 2012, 02:40 AM
I Sunday 03/18/12 it will have been 30 years since I bought my first firearm from a gun shop.The truth as I know it, is that gun prices have gone through the roof and gun store staff have gotten more ignorant and arrogant.(NOT ALL) but many.

I do not expect a someone selling a pump shotgun at Walmart to know features of products they sell. It is just part of the deal at a big box store. If someone hangs a shingle up and starts doing business as a gun shop it is reasonable to expect the staff to understand more than just the bare basics.

Case in point, left handed shooter on a bit of a budget was looking to buy a shotgun. The sells staff at a gun-shop did not understand why the Mossberg 500 that they had on the shelf, would be a better fit for him than 870 Remington.

At another pawn/gunshop a few days later I over heard a "Numb Skull" trying to convince a customer that 9mm Nato would blow a much BIGGER hole in the (Insert Racial Slur here) that are robbing houses than a 380 Auto or a 38 Special. The other "near-dee-well" working the other end of the counter was telling a young lady that "with the Judge you can load up some 410 buck shot and blow that (Insert different ethnic slur here) away clean through the front door".

I pointed out the Mossberg out to the young hunter and explain why the safety location was lefty friendly. The staff nodded in agreement. At the pawn shop I just shook my head quietly and walk over use power tools then left.

Maybe it I am apathetic or it is weariness from years of seeing poor professionalism in the gun retail trade that makes me not want spend time or money in most shops.

I have a local gunsmith that has done right by me and he handles my FFLs transfers for a fair price. Gunbroker, Arms list, and face to face sells have been the source of my last 1/2 dozen gun purchases. Hopefully I will find a good gun-shop. I am not holding my breath but I am holding my tongue...

cyclopsshooter
March 17, 2012, 03:22 AM
At another pawn/gunshop a few days later I over heard a "Numb Skull" trying to convince a customer that 9mm Nato would blow a much BIGGER hole in the (Insert Racial Slur here) that are robbing houses than a 380 Auto or a 38 Special. The other "near-dee-well" working the other end of the counter was telling a young lady that "with the Judge you can load up some 410 buck shot and blow that (Insert different ethnic slur here) away clean through the front door".

Shops like this scare me.. they give both gun owners and the pawn industry a bad name. Fortunately the majority are not like that.. (I do admit to stepping over a few tools in my own shop from time to time though :o )

If you enjoyed reading about "Gun Shop Malpractice?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!