All 45 Colt Rugers aren't created equal,or maybe?


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saltydog452
March 13, 2012, 03:43 PM
Ruger rookie asking...Ruger seems to have about as many items as S&W. For a green rookie considering a companion Single Action sidearm capable of using the same ammunition as a lever action shoulder arm, which models would fit into that narrrow niche?

OOps, caliber would be 45Colt.

salty

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BCCL
March 13, 2012, 03:48 PM
Unless your planning on getting into hotrod loads, any Ruger revolver is going to handle the same loads a lever action rifle will.

If your are, then the larger Blackhawk/original Vaqueros are better than the smaller New Vaqueros.

If your planning on sighting in both guns for a particular load, I'd go with a Blackhawk for the adjustable sights.

Bula
March 13, 2012, 04:02 PM
The New Model Vaq is designed to handle Standard Pressure loads only. For my money, Blackhawk is the way to go. Not sure what loads you're running in the lever, but I really like the adj sights a whole lot more on a field gun. And it can run with the higher than standard loads you MAY be using in the lever. It's just a very versatile platform.

murf
March 13, 2012, 06:22 PM
be careful. ruger has come out with a small-frame 45 long colt blackhawk. it is not heavy enough for "ruger only" loads.

get the large-frame ruger if you want to run high pressure loads out of it and a levergun.

murf

Ken 45LC
March 13, 2012, 06:26 PM
I have quite a few of Bisley models, and they are great for full powerhouse loads.

But don't forget about the Redhawk in a 4 inch barrel. It's on my short list of Rugers I need to get soon. It has adjustable sights, is very strong, and can be reloaded alot quicker than a single action. It will take any load you can shoot out of a lever action. There is a wide range of grips available for them, that will tame the recoil very well. Add a fiber optic front sight and you'll be ready for anything.

Hope this helps,

Ken

rcmodel
March 13, 2012, 06:29 PM
The New Model Vaq is designed to handle Standard Pressure loads onlyThat gun can safely handle 23,000 PSI loads, but not "Ruger Only" 32,000 CUP loads.

While standard pressure .45 Colt is rated 14,000 PSI.
The smaller frame New Model Vaquaro & Blackhawk is or has been offered with an extra .45 ACP convertable cylinder.
And .45 ACP is rated 21,000 PSI in standard loads, and 23,000 PSI in +P loads.
No reason the .45 Colt cylinder won't do the same.

rc

saltydog452
March 13, 2012, 07:19 PM
Thanks.

It seems that, even in the Super Blackhawk, Ruger markets both an alloy and steel frame. I'd imagine that both will stretch some, don't know if the alloy frame can spring back as well as steel.

Point is, even using 'Super Blackhawk' as a guide, there seems to be a difference in strength.

Don't know.

salty

cpt-t
March 13, 2012, 07:19 PM
SALTYDOG452: IMO a RUGER BLACKHAWK is just about impossible to beat. I guess you could dammage a Ruger Blackhawk but I think you would have to work at it. I have been shooting an old 3 screw Ruger since 1972 and I have shot it a lot, have no idea how many rounds I put thru it. And it is still just as accruate and locks up just as tight as when it was new. I have two lever guns in 45 LC and old Rossi and a old Marlin, shoot 250 to 255 gr cast 452 dia rnfp bullets for years. You can shoot some really potent factory rounds if you want to safely. But I have never felt the need to use them very often, and I am to old and fat to enjoy recoil like that any more, hurts my hands and wrists now. I have hunted with gun for many years and shot every thing from varmits, coyotes, hogs,to a few deer with it and can`t remember loseing something I shoot with it. And it has always been a very comforting gun to carry any place I have carried it. GOOD LUCK TO YOU: ken

Old Fuff
March 13, 2012, 08:14 PM
In older .45 Blackhawks the handle and trigger guard, as well as the ejector tube and rear sight base, were made of aluminum. These parts are not stressed and seldom cased any problems except that there is no good way to touch up the blue finish as it becomes worn. In stainless models these parts were made from steel, and the revolver was noteably heavier.

I much prefer the current mid-frame .45 models, but I have no interest in shooting "Ruger only" loads. Like others, in a "shooting six-gun" I've found the Blackhawk's adjustable sights to be a meaningful advantage.

Missionary
March 13, 2012, 09:55 PM
Greetings
Have several older BHKs and two leverguns in 45 Colt. Have pretty well settled on the Lee 265 grain RNFP with 18.5 grains 2400 as my standard basic load for both types. The carbines will move the bullet about 300 fps faster at about 1450 fps. That is enough thump for any critter I will see on a daily basis when hunting about in east central Illinois. Out of the Rugers that 1100 FPS is nothing to feel under gunned about.
Others push the same bullet faster but I have no need to. Have a 454 BFR and 45-70s if I need more power to thump bigger critters.
Mike in Peru

rcmodel
March 13, 2012, 10:20 PM
Ruger markets both an alloy and steel frame.Grip frame only.

The cylinder frame on all Ruger Blackhawks are made from steel, regardless of the model or age.

rc

CraigC
March 13, 2012, 10:50 PM
No, all .45 Rugers are not created equal, nor are leverguns. Things are not so cut and dry. Guns and safe, accepted limits.

New Vaquero - 23,000psi
Vaquero - 32,000psi
Large frame Blackhawk - 32,000psi
Mid-frame Blackhawk - 23,000psi
Redhawk - 50,000psi
Marlin 1894 - 40,000psi
Winchester 1894 - 40,000psi
Rossi/Braztech/Legacy/EMF/Cimarron/USRAC 1892 - 45-50,000psi
Uberti 1873 rifle - 20-21,000psi (according to Brian Pearce)
Uberti 1866 rifle - 14,000psi
Uberti 1860 Henry - 14,000psi

bergmen
March 14, 2012, 11:38 PM
No, all .45 Rugers are not created equal, nor are leverguns. Things are not so cut and dry. Guns and safe, accepted limits.

New Vaquero - 23,000psi
Vaquero - 32,000psi
Large frame Blackhawk - 32,000psi
Mid-frame Blackhawk - 23,000psi
Redhawk - 50,000psi
Marlin 1894 - 40,000psi
Winchester 1894 - 40,000psi
Rossi/Braztech/Legacy/EMF/Cimarron/USRAC 1892 - 45-50,000psi
Uberti 1873 rifle - 20-21,000psi (according to Brian Pearce)
Uberti 1866 rifle - 14,000psi
Uberti 1860 Henry - 14,000psi

What are the sources for these pressure figures? I have a Bisley (assumed to be in the same strength league as large frame Blackhawk) and Marlin 1894, both in .45 Colt.

I didn't know there was a "Mid-frame" Blackhawk (unless it is the .357). I thought they were all the same size.

Dan

CraigC
March 15, 2012, 11:15 AM
New Vaquero - 23,000psi (Brian Pearce, John Taffin, Dave Scovill, commonly accepted Colt SAA practice)
Vaquero - 32,000psi (virtually everybody)
Large frame Blackhawk - 32,000psi (virtually everybody)
Mid-frame Blackhawk - 23,000psi (Brian Pearce, John Taffin, Dave Scovill, commonly accepted Colt SAA practice)
Redhawk - 50,000psi (Brian Pearce, John Taffin)
Marlin 1894 - 40,000psi (Paco Kelly)
Winchester 1894 - 40,000psi (Paco Kelly)
Rossi/Braztech/Legacy/EMF/Cimarron/USRAC 1892 - 45-50,000psi (Paco Kelly)
Uberti 1873 rifle - 20-21,000psi (according to Brian Pearce)
Uberti 1866 rifle - 14,000psi (common knowledge not to push your luck with these guns)
Uberti 1860 Henry - 14,000psi (same as above)

Ruger reintroduced the mid-frame Blackhawk in 2005 with the 50th anniversary .357. It has since been used as a platform for the .44Spl and the most recent is a number of .45 convertibles ordered by Lipsey's. All others are large frame but folks have been converting mid-frame Old Models for a long time.

Greg528iT
March 15, 2012, 11:29 AM
THANKS CraigC.
I just made my 1st wheel gun purchase with a Ruger New Model Vaquero, 45 Colt. I've been reloading with a buddy and while I don't expect to be pushing the envelope with this gun, it's nice to know where it is.

Now can anybody tell me how a Ruger with a Birdshead grip is, with medium to stout loads? It looks like it'll fit the hand very well. Just in case I want to make a 2nd wheel gun purchase. ;)

bergmen
March 15, 2012, 11:55 AM
Thanks CraigC, excellent reference information.

Dan

saltydog452
March 15, 2012, 01:40 PM
rcmodel, I flat do not know.

What brought that notion of mine to light was a brief description of a Super Blackhawk having an alloy frame in an advert that I read. Maybe the marketing firm that wrote the advert confused handle 'frame' and 'trigger guard' with the actual frame. Dunno. Sure left me confused tho'. Thanks for ironing out a few wrinkles.

I'm sailing in unknown waters here.

Thanks,

salty

CraigC
March 15, 2012, 01:44 PM
Super Blackhawks have always had steel grip frames, every model. Most have also had steel ejector housings.

MCgunner
March 15, 2012, 01:49 PM
Bought mine before the new Vaq was introduced, but I wanted it for a working field gun. Yeah, the adjustable sight is mandatory on such a gun as I shoot mostly standard 255 flat points over 8.3 grains Unique, but have a hot 300 grain/2400 handload I carry in the field at times, hunting or hiking. The Vaquero line just doesn't offer this versatility, new or old. It's great for cowboy games, but for the real world as a working outdoor hunting/hiking gun, I prefer the Blackhawk.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2j4sqxx.jpg

saltydog452
March 15, 2012, 01:51 PM
If it is possible w/o nailing anyones feet to the floor, the post by Craig C, # 14, would seem to be worthy of serious a thank-you and a 'sticky.'

Can't help with the 'sticky' but, I thank you.

Got it 'flagged', 'dog-eared', highlighted, and in its own seperate folder.

Thank You.

sd.

saltydog452
March 15, 2012, 02:01 PM
Awww Mac, that too purty to use.

Why don'tcha let me hang onto it for a while? Promise not to use the barrel to twist wire, and the handle not to drive staples.

salty

MCgunner
March 15, 2012, 02:20 PM
Well, I carry it, I shoot it, I hunt with it....but hammers are for driving staples. :D

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