[rem44m]

How come the 357 sig is not more popular? Is it too loud? Does it kick to hard or to much muzzle flip? I've never had the opportunity to shoot one but I would think it would be more popular.

I know some will say that ammo is hard to find, but it's kinda a chicken or the egg thing here- if more people purchased it more ammo would become available.

I'm surprised that law enforcement does not use it more, it seems like a great round through barriers.

Someone please fill me in :D

[Skribs]

When I look at the 9mm vs. the .357 sig, I see the following:

They should both produce a 9mm hole. The .357 will have a bigger temporary wound channel, but in a human target that is just going to be temporary, and cause a bit more pain, but will not produce a physiological response.

The 9mm should have lower recoil (easier to control, more popular for recoil-sensitive folks).

The 9mm will have greater capacity.

They both can be made armor-piercing, but the .357 does have an advantage here.

The .357 is going to have a flatter trajectory, which in most scenarios you will use a pistol probably doesn't matter.

For carry, I'd rather have greater capacity and less recoil. For competition, people REALLY want less recoil. If you're in a scenario where you need barrier penetration or a flat trajectory, you're better off with a rifle. In those scenarios, you're likely LEO, and will have a rifle handy in the trunk.

[sigarms228]

It is a great round and extremely accurate - at least in P229s. I believe it is the standard round of the Secret Service and is shown, from what I have read, to be able to penetrate windshield glass, etc better than most.

However it is very expensive, unless you reload, and I think that is probably the main reason it is not more popular.

Many shooters that use or have tried the .357 SIG claim it is VERY loud but the recoil feels less than a .40.

[General Tso]

For me, I hate reloading bottleneck cartridges.

I think our Ohio Highway Patrol carries it in their Sig pistols.

[mizer67]

As another poster said, bottleneck pistol cartridge is a reloading nightmare. Although reduced capacity, few load choices, neck tension issues, recoil and muzzle blast for a marginal increase in barrier penetration are other issues with the caliber.

[grendelbane]

Reloading is not a problem if you use green soap as a case lube, and exercise reasonable care. Bullet selection is some what limited, though.

It is not a bad cartridge. It does some things extremely well.

I enjoy mine, but if I couldn't have one, I would get by just fine with some thing else.

[Okiegunner]

I too have heard that there is less percieved recoil than the .40 (Why??) I don't know, because I believe it is a hotter round.

I have the Sig 2340 in .40 cal. I would really like to find the .357 barrel for this pistol. Barsto, Fire Dragon, Sigarms, they all seem to be kind of hard to find. I have read that the Fire Dragon can be kinda sketchy (once again no personal experience), but I think I would be willing to try one out, maybe something a little gunsmithing could cure.

Speaking of Barsto, I would love to find the drop in 9mm barrell also for the 2340. I am told this is no longer manufactured by them. Would be really nice to have all 3 cal. in a drop in barrel, with no slide or magazine change.

Any for sale?

[AK103K]

Ive had a number of guns in 357SIG. Its basically a +P+ 9mm, and feels like it when shot. Its got a bit of a bark, but Ive never found it to be flashy, as some report.

Reloading isnt a problem with the right load. A case full of AA#9 eliminates the set back worries, and approximates factory loadings. Use a .40 S&W sizer for the first step, and you dont need to lube, but it does add an extra step. No biggie really, and less work/mess.

Having lived with the round for a number of years, I wasnt seeing it do anything really better than 9mm, and with the prices taking off briskly at the time, that made it a pretty easy choice.

[mgmorden]

Reloading is not a problem if you use green soap as a case lube, and exercise reasonable care.

You basically just enumerated the headaches that reloaders want to avoid with it :). Nobody said it was impossible to reload - just aggravating. I personally don't reload it but I reload 7.62x25 which has the same issue (bottleneck case). In general anything that I have to bring out case lube for I'm just not going to shoot as much.

Overall too, aside from that, it doesn't offer much that .40S&W doesn't do and with the same capacity. When introducing a new cartridge you can't ask "why shouldn't this be more popular?", you have to ask why should it. Unless something new brings something to the table above and beyond what is already there it generally won't take off.

[27hand]

I have a Glock 32 (357) and a Glock 23 (40).

I have taken multiple 700 round pistol classes with both.
The 357 seems louder with more muzzle flash but the recoil is very similar to the forty.

I changed out the 357 bbl to a 40 bbl when I could no longer buy aluminum cased .357. Cost was the issue for me.
I now have 2 .40 cal pistols. I did get some 357 dies but haven't yet reloaded any.

I read somewhere that the wound channel difference for most handgun calibers is so small that it really doesn't matter what you shoot. Given that, I try to steer new gun purchasers to something like a Glock 19.

I also read that the velocity of 9mm +P and .357 is pretty close.

I have a Kahr P9 Covert in 9mm and don't really notice that much difference in recoil although the Kahr is smaller and lighter than the Glocks.

Choices. All yours.

[2wheels]

Nothings wrong with .357 Sig, but it has a few things going against it I think... I guess a lot of potential buyers don't think it's worth it.

It's essentially a fast 9mm, and many people who want a fast 9mm are happy with +P or +P+ 9mm ammo. You'll also have a little more recoil/muzzle blast with a .357 Sig compared to the 9mm.

It is a lot cheaper to practice with 9mm.

A 9mm gun will hold a couple more rounds, doesn't matter to everyone but some people just HAVE to have that couple extra rounds.

.40S&W already exists for the people who want something more than a 9mm but less than a .45ACP.

[Sam Cade]

I too have heard that there is less percieved recoil than the .40 (Why??)

Physics. I usually hear 10-15% less recoil in total energy.

Plug in some load data for a 125gr .357Sig and a 180gr .40 and see what numbers you get.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

[Okiegunner]

Sam Cade,

I am guessing it has to do with bullet weight. 125gr vs 180gr. Asking (cause I don't know) as a rule what is the difference in the amount of powder behind these 2 rounds?

(once again, on a different tack...would really appreciate knowing where I can currently purchase a .357sig drop in barrel for my Sig 2340...

Thank you much!!

Gunner

[trex1310]

There is nothing wrong with the .357 Sig at all. You name the
caliber and there will be naysayers for sure. I like it and will
continue to shoot, reload and carry it. Most people that reload
rifle cartridges are familiar with bottleneck cases. Start a thread
that is entitled "The .45ACP and 1911 Both Suck" and see what
responses you get. Ignore the death threats.

[Steve C]

How come the 357 sig is not more popular?

The .357 Sig is a relatively new cartridge and as such will either succeed in the market or go the way of other lessor cartridges or even fade from use altogether. It is in all respects a commercial ballistic improvement over the 9mm that fits into handguns of similar size.

As a law enforcement round it is moderately successful. To be successful in the civilian market handgun purchasers must answer the question "I want a .357 Sig becuase.....". For civilians it doesn't fill a need real or perceived that makes it more desirable than other available semi auto cartridges. The .357 mag revolver cartridge is popular because of its versatility. .357 mag handguns can shoot from low power .38 spl target ammo to heavy for caliber bullets and high powered JHP magnum ammunition for hunting and seflf defense without modification.

Another 20 years will tell if the .357 Sig will be a popular successful cartidge, a minor cartridge with cult folowing or dissapear from the marketplace altogether.

[Okiegunner]

Do any of you know where I can purchase a .357sig drop in barrel for my Sig 2340? A little off topic, but...I want one. lol

[meanmrmustard]

It's expensive as hell.

[MCgunner]

They should both produce a 9mm hole. The .357 will have a bigger temporary wound channel, but in a human target that is just going to be temporary, and cause a bit more pain, but will not produce a physiological response.

And nerve and even tissue damage via the ballistic pressure wave.

But, I don't see ANY advantage the .357 sig has over the lighter weight .40 cal loads, same energy levels. The one advantage IN THEORY is the bottle necked case would feed more reliably, but I have center fire guns with straight cases that are 100 percent, so I don't see how it gets better than 100 percent.

The .357 in "sig" is actually .355 in lead. The moniker is a sales gimmick for agencies than have transitioned from their beloved .357 magnum revolvers. In no way is the .357 Sig the equal of the .357 magnum revolver, though. Oh, some loads, sure, but the .357 magnum can produce nearly 800 ft lbs with 180 grain bullets in hot loads from a 6" barrel. And, of course, feed reliability is not a problem with a revolver.

[rodinal220]

Its a bottleneck case and I loathe trimming cases.

[Quiet]

It's popular with law enforcement.

It's the second most issued cartridge amongst state law enforcement agencies and has been adopted by two Federal law enforcement agencies.

As of 2011, ten state law enforcement agencies & two Federal law enforcement agencies:
Delaware (SIG P229)
Montana (SIG P229)
New Mexico (S&W M&P357)
North Carolina (S&W M&P357)
Oaklahoma (SIG P226)
Rhode Island (SIG P226)
South Dakota (SIG P229)
Tennessee (Glock 31)
Texas (SIG P226)
Virgina (SIG P229)
Federal Air Marshals (SIG P229)
US Secret Service (SIG P229)

[kozak6]

Ammo isn't just harder to find. It's also significantly more expensive.

The 9mm has also been around for almost 100 more years, so there's a few more guns chambered in it as well.

[ny32182]

What is "wrong" with it? The downsides are numerous.

-As mentioned, the single biggest problem with it is that it is a major PITA to reload compared to straight wall pistol cartridges, for a litany of reasons:

Brass is rare. Requires either two sizing strokes or case lube, either of which add major PITA on a Dillon, at least. Most 9mm bullets won't work due to the bottleneck design/limited opportunity for neck tension.

-You get the capacity reduction of a .40 without the increase in caliber size.

-It has no competitive home in gun games.

-Personally I think it is snappier than .40, I guess others disagree.

-"Flatter trajectory??" I always get a chuckle out of this. Where are you shooting your 9/40/45 where trajectory is a problem?

Upsides:

-May exhibit slightly better barrier penetration with the right bullet construction?

-???

Honestly I think most people buy it because it is "something different", and want to be a special unique flower. That is pretty much why I bought my G32 a few years back, but it never saw any kind of significant round count, for all the reasons above.

[ATLDave]

"Light and fast" is out of fashion right now in the handgun terminal ballistics discussion. The dominant mode of thinking is that handgun bullets just poke holes, and such holes are of the diameter of the bullet (after expansion, if it expands). Under this model, caliber matters, because caliber relates to size of hole. Weight of projectile matters, because momentum increases penetration which increases length of the poked holes. Velocity matters less, provided there's enough velocity to cause expansion - that seems to be a 1000 fps threshold. Under the "just-pokes-holes" model, speed in excess of that doesn't do much until you get to some rifle-like speeds where the wound cavity exceeds the elasticity of human tissue and cavities become areas of permanent damage.

That model explicitly ignores any shock/ballistic pressure wave/hydraulic effects, and claims that they are either fictional or too unreliable to be worth any trade-off to achieve. Yet those potential effects are what one is "chasing" by jumping velocity past 1000 or 1100 fps. So the Sig 357 offers things that are out of fashion these days.

[rikman]

. Start a thread
that is entitled "The .45ACP and 1911 Both Suck" and see what
responses you get. Ignore the death threats.

That was funny!




Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

[daytodaze]

put simply, the .357 sig isn't that popular because it's expensive and most shooters don't feel it adds anything to their collection/firepower. .357 sig is definitely a hot round that serves it's purpose well, and as others have stated, it offers a very flat trajectory. With that said, I have looked into the pros and cons of a pistol chambered in .357 sig, and I've even looked into the cost of buying conversion barrels for my .40 cals, but simce i'm already so invested, it doesn't make much sense. I'd rather train with .40, which is my carry/hd round, and spend the extra cash on .357 magnum and .45 for range fun.

[ku4hx]

The 357 Sig has the same things wrong with it I've heard wrong with every other cartridge. In my 53 years of active shooting, with the exception of the .22LR, at one time or another they've all been described to me as: too loud, too much kick, too heavy a gun for the cartridge, too light a gun for the cartridge, too much muzzle blast and etc..

There's nothing really wrong with the 357 Sig and the same can be said for most "bad" cartridges. IMHO, it was simply a cartridge looking for a problem to solve.

I don't own a 357 Sig per se, but my Lone Wolf 357 Sig barrel in both my Glock 27 and Glock 23 is a lot of fun to shoot. My current loads are a 124 JHP at about 1,150 fps and the same weight cast bullet also at 1,150 fps. I loaded some 124 XTPs at close to 1,400 fps and they did get attention at my gun club's range. But why do that? If I want a more powerful round than a 9mm I'll choose one of my 45s, 10s, 40s or even 357 Magnum. Of course if I want a 9mm I could just as easily grab my BHP, or one of three Glocks.

Basically I see the 357 Sig as a novelty: fun and cheap to shoot but nothing to shout about and certainly nothing "wrong" with it..

[X-Rap]

It's like whats wrong with the 32 ACP or the 44 spcl. There is a constant ebb and flow around a couple mainstay calibers. Few meet the status of ubiquity and I'm sure the 357 Sig will not but I do think it is here for the long haul.

[snakeman]

It's loud and costs a lot to shoot regularly. I would love to have an xd in 357 sig though. Since I handload it wouldn't be too much of a hassle and I could deer hunt with my auto if I wanted to.

[dom1104]

If you want 200 fps advantage over 9mm and dont mind reduced capacity........



Its not whats wrong with it, its.. that it isnt ENOUGH of an upgrade to warrent changing.

"If only my 9mm was 200 fps faster...."

[rem44m]

Ha Dom if we are going to wish then I wish my 9's were 3000 fps faster ;)

[GLOOB]

Hmm. 357SIG is supposed to be able to approximate the "ultimate 1 shot stop" loading, according to some sketchy data compiled by some dude. This round is the 357mag 125 gr Silvertip.

This load was legendary for its stopping power. That was back in the days when police carried 4" revolvers and a couple speedloaders, and they felt well-armed.

Today, there are much fewer one shot stops, because an armed confrontation is often more of a rapid-fire shootout. You rarely read about a police shooting that ended in one shot, anymore. Even where the cops shoot the wrong guy, you often read "shot X times," where X approaches or equals the number of bullets in the magazine.

Compared with the best 40SW loadings from the relatively short barrel of a modern service pistol, there's nothing magical about the 125gr Silvertip load.

They say bottle neck cartridges feed better? There are lots of 9mm and 40SW handguns which are very reliable. Fact, ammo problems are the main cause of jams in most quality service guns. And a bottlenecked cartridge offers more potential for ammo problems. A case that is undersized can separate, leaving half the brass stuck in the chamber.

[Fiv3r]

Personally, I have never found it to be a caliber that filled any niche I needed to fill. I can get comparable performance from a high quality 9mm. I would rather invest in a niche cartridge that offered something another one might not like the 10mm.

I will say 357Sig was one of the few calibers I saw on the shelves when the ammo drought was going on a few years back. The irony is that most everyone that I know who shoots 357Sig reloads anyway.

I suppose its more of a police caliber. I know several departments use it, but I'm sure that has to do with price point on what the gun manufacturers give them. Probably the same reason our Sheriff's department carries GAP Glocks.

[Sapper771]

Its too expensive and doesn't offer anything over what I have currently. Most of the people that I know that reload the 357sig have told me that it is a PITA and not worth fooling with unless you have to, YMMV.

I dont have anything against the 357sig. I enjoyed it when I was issued a G31 as a service pistol, but I wasn't paying for the ammo either.

[Nushif]

Its a bottleneck case and I loathe trimming cases.

Same. The simpler the better. I reload to shoot a lot. 8) Not to reload a lot. 8)

As for recoil, I've shot a .40 XD and a .357, both fullsize and the .357 threw the gun off significantly more. not sure how valuable that is in terms of data, but man, I didn't enjoy shooting the .357.
Recoil characteristics to me are pretty important as when I shoot I shoot high volume. So 9mm and .45 are pretty much my two mainstay rounds.

[CZguy]

"Light and fast" is out of fashion right now in the handgun terminal ballistics discussion. The dominant mode of thinking is that handgun bullets just poke holes, and such holes are of the diameter of the bullet (after expansion, if it expands). Under this model, caliber matters, because caliber relates to size of hole. Weight of projectile matters, because momentum increases penetration which increases length of the poked holes. Velocity matters less, provided there's enough velocity to cause expansion - that seems to be a 1000 fps threshold. Under the "just-pokes-holes" model, speed in excess of that doesn't do much until you get to some rifle-like speeds where the wound cavity exceeds the elasticity of human tissue and cavities become areas of permanent damage.

That model explicitly ignores any shock/ballistic pressure wave/hydraulic effects, and claims that they are either fictional or too unreliable to be worth any trade-off to achieve. Yet those potential effects are what one is "chasing" by jumping velocity past 1000 or 1100 fps. So the Sig 357 offers things that are out of fashion these days.

I think that you hit the nail squarely on the head with this observation, ALTDave. And as we all know, styles come and go.

The .357 Sig is very effective in my opinion, and that's good enough for me.

[hariph creek]

Nothing wrong with .357sig.
I hope it dies out soon, though.
That way all the bottleneck shooters will switch to 10mm. Thus making 10mm more available and affordable.
(guess what I shoot?)

[sargents1]

How come the 357 sig is not more popular? Is it too loud? Does it kick to hard or to much muzzle flip? I've never had the opportunity to shoot one but I would think it would be more popular.

I know some will say that ammo is hard to find, but it's kinda a chicken or the egg thing here- if more people purchased it more ammo would become available.

I'm surprised that law enforcement does not use it more, it seems like a great round through barriers.

Someone please fill me in :D

In terms of performance, the .357 Sig is good as a "social work" kind of cartridge. There is nothing really wrong with it, its just that there isn't enough perceived benefit to justify its existence.

Will a bad guy really notice the difference between
a 115gr 9mm+P+ @ 1300ft/s
and a 115gr .357Sig @1450ft/s?

I doubt it.

- Standard 9x19 NATO (and all of it's +P and +P+ derivatives) is more common, and cheaper with almost the same performance with greater magazine capacity.
- .40S&W is also more common and delivers just as much energy while chucking bigger bullets.
- .45ACP has the lock on the big bore set.

I think the big thing is price of ammo. With the 9mm / .40 / .45ACP there are lots of sources for cheap plinking ammo and there are high quality brands that make premium ammo for serious purposes that will do everything that the .357 sig will do.

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone bothers shooting anything but 10mm Auto.
The Ten is the Once-and-Future-King...if only people would get their balls screwed on tight and man-up :evil:

[Skribs]

.45ACP has the lock on the big bore set.

That is, until .50 GI becomes non-proprietary and others start making it.

[meanmrmustard]

This is a purely subjective statement, but based on info I've seen about guides in Alaska switching from cumbersome Rem. 870s to Glock 20, the post made by sargents1 is spot on. The 10mm Auto is a formidable cartridge, and some feel that a mag dump into a charging grizzly is more than enough. I tend to agree. My G20 is a pleasure to shoot, and I know it has plenty of power to boot. When I blast my nines, I don't find myself wishing I had a 357 sig. It's an answer without a question.

[CZguy]

In terms of performance, the .357 Sig is good as a "social work" kind of cartridge. There is nothing really wrong with it, its just that there isn't enough perceived benefit to justify its existence.

Will a bad guy really notice the difference between
a 115gr 9mm+P+ @ 1300ft/s
and a 115gr .357Sig @1450ft/s?

I doubt it.


I feel that they will be able to tell the difference. But then I only plan on shooting the most discerning criminals with it. :D

Isn't that the whole argument for why .22, 25, 32, 380, 9x18, and a 9x19 out of a short barrel aren't enough to stop a crazed 250 lb. crack head?

The .357 Sig works just fine. It isn't very popular, so ammo prices are high.

[MCgunner]

I wouldn't own one because I handload everything I shoot except, of course, rimfire.

"Light and fast" is out of fashion right now in the handgun terminal ballistics discussion. The dominant mode of thinking is that handgun bullets just poke holes, and such holes are of the diameter of the bullet (after expansion, if it expands). Under this model, caliber matters, because caliber relates to size of hole. Weight of projectile matters, because momentum increases penetration which increases length of the poked holes. Velocity matters less, provided there's enough velocity to cause expansion - that seems to be a 1000 fps threshold. Under the "just-pokes-holes" model, speed in excess of that doesn't do much until you get to some rifle-like speeds where the wound cavity exceeds the elasticity of human tissue and cavities become areas of permanent damage.

That model explicitly ignores any shock/ballistic pressure wave/hydraulic effects, and claims that they are either fictional or too unreliable to be worth any trade-off to achieve. Yet those potential effects are what one is "chasing" by jumping velocity past 1000 or 1100 fps. So the Sig 357 offers things that are out of fashion these days.

You need only refer to stiletto heal shoes to realize fashion isn't necessarily rooted in reality. But, you're right, the .357 Sig flies in the face of the Facklerites.

[Skribs]

Mustard, you did remind me that sometimes we're not talking self defense against humans when selecting a handgun caliber. In the case of something bigger, I agree I'd prefer a .357 Sig over a 9 (but I'd probably go with a 10mm in that case, anyway).

[meanmrmustard]

You're a wise man, Skribs. But when the world turns to ****, 9mm anything is going to be more easily acquired than .357 Sig. He'll, .357 mag would be easier to grab. I know, SHTF situations aren't popular, but +p 124 gr can be had in Wally world. Nuff said.

[Okiegunner]

Guys,

I aplogize , because I have worn this out, and after this I will stop trying (for a while anyway)

I own a Sig 2340 in. 40 cal. I am attempting to purchase the .357sig drop in barrel (used is ok, does not have to be pristine, just not shot to hell and a decent price.)

Also a 9mm Barsto drop in barrel for a 2340, once again, decint shape, fair price.

I would buy one or both if available, for a fair price.


Thanks much,

Gunner

[hariph creek]

I like 10mm, now that I use it. But it serves double duty as my SD and woods cartridge. If it were not for the ''woods'' aspect, I'd rather have a more conventional load. Since .357sig doesn't fill the ''trail'' role, I probobaly wouldn't look at it.
I can't knock it for what it is, though. It's a fine duty and SD round. So are many others.
I generally prefer more standard ammo but, 10mm fills a particular need in a practical manner. It meets a specific niche that nothing else does.
Sure wish it was more widely available. Finally got me loading, that's worth it right there.

How about the 9x25 Dillon? Kind of a .357sig/mag.

[CZguy]

But it serves double duty as my SD and woods cartridge

Well I'll be darned.....that's what I use .357 Sig for.

Heck I thought that we were far apart on this one. But it turns out to only be 1 mm difference. :D

[PabloJ]

Honestly I'm not familiar with the .357Sig largely because 3rd generation S&W autos can be had for fraction of SIG pistol's cost with little practical difference between them. My guess is because ammo is not available at Walmart:confused:

[Quiet]

My guess is because ammo is not available at Walmart

Ammo selection at WalMart varies from store to store, since it's up to the each store's sporting goods manager to order ammo.

I've seen .357SIG & .45GAP at some Wal-Marts.

[Kingofthehill]

I have a couple .357sig's and love the way they feel. After reading Massad Ayoob's info nd statistics on the round, it is now my carry guns caliber (s&w m&p .357sig compact)

IMO on a compact model it feels smoother and easier to control

[brnmuenchow]

Absolutley nothing wrong with it, simply put IMO... the .9X19mm is and has been more popular for many years and most likely always will be, in part by almost all Mfr. make a .9mm and not all offer a .357 Sig., also due to availability and cost of the ammo.

[ny32182]

Yeah, it is available at Walmart around here. Still costs more than .40.

[MCgunner]

My "trail gun" is a .357 MAGNUM revolver.....sometimes a .45 Colt.

[hariph creek]

Excellent ''trail'' guns, both. I love .45colt. I generally like medium frame revolvers better though. That's why .357mag gets the edge, for me.
I like the Taurus Tracker concept. I wish Ruger would do it with the GP100. One of those in .41mag/.44mag/.45colt would be sweet!

[hariph creek]

CZguy, you use .357sig as a ''trail'' cartridge? It seems that when most of us use the term ''trail gun,'' we're talking anything up to whatever type of bears are in our area. Yes, I know. For most of us, the odds of defending ourselves against a bear, are pretty slim.
But, if that's your application? Can you get .357sig to reliably fire a heavy enough bullet, fast enough?

It's been my understanding that .357sig only really rivals .357mag, with lighter hollow point loads?

[X-Rap]

I often carry a 357 sig in a G32 while bow hunting. Lighter, easier to carry than a big wheel gun. It is probably on the minimum side but it has capacity as a plus. If I was in big bear country I would gladly suffer under the weight of my Alaskan 454.

[MCgunner]

I recently went back to hike Big Bend. It's on the Rio Grande. Now, there's black bear and mountain lion, but that's not the big threat. The big threat is mules...as in drug mules and their armed escorts. You can't carry open in a national park, must carry concealed in compliance with your state carry permit. I carried a 4" Taurus 66, light enough, drops in a fanny pack and hides, very accurate, able to make hits beyond 100 yards if necessary. I could see an autoloader in a flat shooting caliber there for that purpose, though. You really don't wanna take on guys with AKs when all you have is a handgun, but I was a boy scout in my youth, preached about that guy Justin Case, be prepared, all that.. I want SOMEthing along just in case. My autos are in .45ACP and 9x19, not really what you'd want to engage targets at 100 yards with, so I took along my trusty revolver. I shoot at 100 yards with my revolvers in .357 and .45 Colt all the time at the range, well practiced.

And, yeah, hairph, my .45 Colt is a Blackhawk, kinda heavy, why I usually leave it for the medium frame .357 4" gun.

[MCgunner]

It's been my understanding that .357sig only really rivals .357mag, with lighter hollow point loads?


Only 125 grain stuff. Not enough case for much heavier. AND, after all, it's only a .355" bore, it's a 9mm, not a .357. So, bullet selection stops at 147 grains. I doubt there's an appropriate bullet for tough to penetrate game, guess you could use a 147 soft point, handload it, might approach decent on black bear.

Were I wanting a semi auto trail gun, 10mm is my answer.

[hariph creek]

Given that the odds are higher to meet an aggresive two legged predator. .357sig is fine. It's no bear round, though. I wonder if anybody makes any hard cast .355 bullets?
I'll look into it. Maybe Bear Tooth?

The whole bear thing, for most of us, is kind of silly. Don't get me wrong, I buy into it. It's still unlikely.

[MCgunner]

The whole bear thing, for most of us, is kind of silly. Don't get me wrong, I buy into it. It's still unlikely.

+1, especially where nothing bigger or badder than black bear exists. We all don't live nor travel in Alaska.

I prefer revolvers for trail guns, anyway, as I can shoot light .38 loads if I've got the license to take small game, or carry full power, heavy loads for long range or big animals. It's called versatility. That doesn't really matter if you're not intending to forage or hunt anything, such as in a national park.

[cougar1717]

It's obvious that there is something "wrong" with the 357 sig: it's not a caliber that a large number of gunbuyers want to have (government agencies excluded). As was mentioned before, light and fast is unpopular right now.

Another reason is that there are just too many choices for the average gun buyer. To them, they know 9/40/45 - 9mm been around for WW1 and has been "featured" by rap music since the 90's, 40 S&W is what cops carry, and 45 auto was used in WWII. Remember, I'm just writing what "average" people think. You can debate on what the average person knows, but seriously, most of their gun knowledge comes from TV shows on the History and Military channel.

So when they decide they need a handgun, they go to the big box outdoor store. The salesman tells them that their caliber choices in the gun they like are 9/40/ and 357?! Their reaction is, "I'm confused about 357. Isn't that for revolvers?" So, there is still some confusion about the caliber in the average person's mind. But that, of course, is MHO.

I understand that Sig couldn't have called it anything with "9mm" in the moniker without greater confusion, but 357 can be just as confusing for people who don't know a lot about guns. I'm sure the sales figures show it.

[Sam Cade]

9mm been around for WW1 and has been "featured" by rap music since the 90's

It's hard to work "tree-fiddy-seben-seeg" into your flow and have it still remain funky-fresh. Know-wut-I'm-sayin'

:D

[swiftak]

Whats the point of the .357 SIG? alot of cartridges out there. Seems like a pain to go thru with the 9mm, .40S&W, and the .45 acp already proven.

[sargents1]

This is a purely subjective statement, but based on info I've seen about guides in Alaska switching from cumbersome Rem. 870s to Glock 20, the post made by sargents1 is spot on. The 10mm Auto is a formidable cartridge, and some feel that a mag dump into a charging grizzly is more than enough. I tend to agree. My G20 is a pleasure to shoot, and I know it has plenty of power to boot. When I blast my nines, I don't find myself wishing I had a 357 sig. It's an answer without a question.
Thanks for saying I was "Spot On" but I want to clarify: If I were faced with a charging Grizz, I would want more than my G20. It might be enough....but it might not.

Black bears, sure. Deer, no problem. but a 600lb (or more) grizzly bear is a different proposition. Not too many folks out there would say that a .308 Win is a "great" Grizz gun (maybe adequate) so a 10mm is definitely outclassed by a big bear. better than nothing, but still.

I love my 10mm, but lets not get carried away. Handguns are handgun...not rifles.

[hariph creek]

agreed, sargents1

[CZguy]

CZguy, you use .357sig as a ''trail'' cartridge? It seems that when most of us use the term ''trail gun,'' we're talking anything up to whatever type of bears are in our area. Yes, I know. For most of us, the odds of defending ourselves against a bear, are pretty slim.
But, if that's your application? Can you get .357sig to reliably fire a heavy enough bullet, fast enough?

It's been my understanding that .357sig only really rivals .357mag, with lighter hollow point loads?

The trails that I hike present a very slight chance of an encounter with a black bear. There is a much greater chance of an encounter with two legged predators, so the .357 Sig is a great choice for my area.

As has been mentioned above, a light high speed bullet isn't in style right now. Which has very little to do with how well it works.

[meanmrmustard]

Well, I'd prefer many things to handgun when in bear country, sure. But I think these salmon fishing guides are of the frame of mind that it is easier to pack than the 12 ga. When I said you were hitting the nail on the head, Skribs, I was talking of potency. Comparing the .308 to a 10mm? First, if I were a guide in Alaska, .308 would not be my caliber of choice, to weak for the land of giants, that's what I have my .375 for. Second, I see any instance a bear would need shot similar to that of another human being: high threat level, no alternative, and very close altercation. The 10mm would be a good choice, as I don't see the bear fairing too well against 10+ rounds of 200 gr. Lead cast, nearly a quarter pound. Let's also mention the recoil variation between the pistol and shotgun, and you wouldn't have to be a surgeon to to hit well with either at bear charge range.

So, .357 sig as a trail gun? Sure, in my neck of the woods it would be fine. YMMV, especially in places where the wildlife eat you.

[Shadow 7D]

Nothing wrong with it
as for the 20's
um, NO
you didn't hear about guides switching, you heard about guides ALSO carrying a G20

as for the 357 sig, well it's doing nothing that the 7.62 Tok didn't do a hundred years ago...

[hariph creek]

CZguy... You're quite right, your logic is sound.

meanmrmustard... I'd take a .308 over any handgun, for bear. I'd still want a handgun but, it wouldn't replace a rifle or shotgun.

Shadow 7D... I agree, who would trade a rifle or shotgun for a handgun? For that situation, at least. Adding a handgun, would be nice. Up there, I'd not care to stray below .44mag.

[JustinJ]

As i understand it the round suffers less velocity loss from shorter barrels. I bought a HK P2000sk that came with a .40 and .357 sig barrel. Given the recoil is so similiar i usually practice with .40 and carry the .357.

[bannockburn]

To me the .357SIG is a lot like my favorite cartridge, the .38 Super. To me it's sort of an "off the beaten path" kind of cartridge. I like the Super because it works well in a M1911 platform and offers a little bit more horsepower (when handloaded properly), than the more commonplace 9mm. Sure it's harder to find and costs a bit more than the mainstream calibers, but I enjoy it mainly because it is slightly different and still has that certain uniqueness about it that sets it apart from everything else.

So to answer your question, there's really nothing wrong with the .357SIG; it's just that it's more of a specialized niche role player among the more established calibers out there.

[meanmrmustard]

Ill find the article guys. I kid you not; the reasoning was purely how much gear was being carried. Gimme a bit, Ill try to find it.

hariph, I TOO would choose a rifle over a handgun. I do see the implications of a 10mm for woods carry however. As for the .308, yep, stronger still. But not my bear medicine. In a close quaters encounter with Yogi, it would not stop me from pissing myself.

Shadow, if I cant get the article, Ill leave it as you may be right, I may be crazy...:)

[Poohgyrr]

Paper stats are not the whole story. Another part of that story is what really happens when the good guys shoot bad guys: good guys say the 357Sig works very well, pretty much stopping them right now, and with better accuracy.

When revolvers rode in cops' holsters, the old 125 gr JHP 357 Magnum had the reputation for stopping bad guys right now. Sounds familiar......

For myself, the 125 gr 357Sig shoots groups about half the size of the 180gr 40S&W when I do my job. Recoil is more straight back, and easier overall with less muzzle flip.

357Magnum revolvers are still a favorite, but 15 rounds per gunload, with the same results & less recoil & faster recovery & less muzzle blast all sound pretty good.

Free opinion and worth what it cost.......

[WaywardSon]

Nothing at all wrong with the .357 Sig...my Glock 20 w/ the .357 Sig conversion barrel is a pleasure to shoot in either caliber. And yes, some of us do just like a little something different:-) What's not to like about a dead reliable pistol with good power, more capacity than a revolver, faster to reload etc.

Yes, it is a bit of a pain to reload...a minor inconvenience to me at least. However cost is not much different than 9mm when reloading. Great caliber IMO

[m2steven]

I love my Glock 32. It may be my favorite caliber among 9mm, 40, and 45. It's super accurate, shoots flat, and the bullet gets where it's going at breakneck speed. It's slightly easier to shoot than a 40. It reminds me a lot of my FN 5.7x28 but for the increased recoil and terminal damage (which is a plus).

I read lots of folks posting arguments about why this or that cartridge is unnecessary because we already have X or Y. There are loads of folks who don't have any clue why we have 40 caliber ammo and pistols from which to fire it. For me it's about my personal capabilities. I shoot my 357 sig ammo better than any among 9, 40, and 45. So for ME thats all the reason I need for the cartridge to exist.

The 357 Sig is a great round. When you pop for some premium defensive ammo and shoot it - you'll see just what a great round it is.

[psyshack]

There is nothing wrong with the .357 sig if you like wimpy loads. The real necked down .40 is the Dillon round. Wildcat off the 10mm. Not the worthless .40 Smith. :)

[wunderkind]

Since its inception 18 years ago, many standard and 'boutique' 9mm loads have improved and approach .357 Sig velocities. Cor-Bon sells a 9mm+p 115 grainer at 1350 fps out of a 4" bbl. Speer's 115 +p+ Gold Dot is marketed at 1300 fps. If you can come to terms with the loss of 10 grains (.02 ounces) of bullet weight, you're in .357 Sig territory.

If you can carry a hot 9mm round like that for defense and plink with relatively cheap 9mm Wolf/WWB out of the same gun, and hold 2-3 more in the magazine vs 357 Sig, I could see as how one would pause before buying a firearm in .357 Sig today.

[ku4hx]

Performance is fine, but getting there for a hand loader is a royal PITA. Loading those short neck bottleneck cases is not a lot of fun with way too many out-of-spec loaded rounds compared to say, the 40 cal, 9mm, 10mm and 45ACP.

The whole idea of the .357 Sig is a solution hunting for a problem.

If I want 9mm performance, I shoot 9mm. If I want 357 Magnum performance, I shoot 357 Magnum.

If I want 357 magnum performance in an auto loader, I shoot 135 grain JHP clocked on my PACT2 at 1,450 fps. And my Glock 20 has sixteen of them on tap and ready to roll.

I bought a Lone Wolf .357 Sig barrel for my G23 (also fits G27) to see what the hoopla was all about. Works fine but still ... solution hunting for a problem.

If you have a compatible Glock (or other make) a 357 Sig barrel is not a bad investment. I'm giving my son one for Christmas to fit his G22 along with 450 rounds of 124 grain JHP ammo. But these are loaded to 1,150 fps and the idea is to provide him 9mm capability. Much greater value to buy a $150 barrel (Glock) than to buy a $600 gun. If he wants to buy and shoot full house 357 Sig on his dime that's his call.

[AK103K]

Performance is fine, but getting there for a hand loader is a royal PITA. Loading those short neck bottleneck cases is not a lot of fun with way too many out-of-spec loaded rounds compared to say, the 40 cal, 9mm, 10mm and 45ACP.
Loading the 357SIG is really no big deal, and only requires one extra step if you use a .40 carbide sizer first.

Ive loaded a ton of it, and never had any troubles. If you do your homework, and use a proper bullet and powder, all the so called problems never surface.

If I want 9mm performance, I shoot 9mm. If I want 357 Magnum performance, I shoot 357 Magnum.
What auto loading, 9mm sized high cap guns are you shooting 357MAG out of?

357SIG gives you basically the same performance as the long touted 125 grain 357MAG load in that high cap auto loader.

For that matter, +P+ 9mm comes pretty close too.

[briantf]

>>>
For that matter, +P+ 9mm comes pretty close too
>>>

No SAAMI spec for +P+ anything......but I agree with you totally about reloading not being an issue.

My Glock 33 is more manageable in 357 SIG than it is when I swap to my G27 barrel, simple as that. I'm still looking for a 357 SIG conversion barrel for my CZ-75B in 40 S&W, it's quite accurate with my handloads, but I shoot my baby Glock more accurately with 357 SIG than 40 S&W.

My sons used to shoot my G33 with a LWD 9mm barrel, nice soft shooting pistol. The reason the Glock 26 is one of the pistols I recommend to people for carry, at least when I know they're going to shoot often enough to be competent, is that it is a good balance between caliber and size for a broad range of people.

Of course my boys are now 13 and 10 and shoot my Glock 21 more than I do......point being, if you practice enough then maybe the additional recoil is "worth" the additional horsepower?

Regards,
Brian in CA

[R.W.Dale]

What's wrong with 357 sig?

The reason I sold mine off was due to the cartridges fatal flaw.

BULLET SETBACK

Just two reloadings was enough to generate almost . 060" of bullet setback in duty grade carry ammunition in my g32

This would be OK if I were an officer shooting the ammo as practice that I carry with the .gov footing the bill.

But as a ccw piece that gets loaded and unloaded often for cleaning or to use practice loads this quickly became a problem

[bophi]

also most 9mm guns will not let you shoot +p+ ammo w/o voiding the wnty.

[meanmrmustard]

If this has already been said, I apologize...but, it's an answer without a question.

[mes228]

I do not like the .357 Sig. I found it expensive to shoot and "snappier" than every other caliber I own. I found little difference in the Sig than the regular .357 mag revolvers in both "bang" & "flash". Also every shooting session at around 100 round mark my wrist was getting sore. I'm sure it's a great defensive round and I'd carry one. However, I shoot too much to have one as a range gun. Most of my shooting is at the range, hopefully it will remain that way.

[TonyT]

Bottleneck pistol cases are a pain in the neck to reload when compared to straight walled cases.

[giggitygiggity]

I don't think it's necessarily a matter of people disliking the .357SIG or that the .357SIG is an inferior cartridge. It is more a matter of price and necessity. You can go with 9mm and pay less for ammo and have a softer shooting gun or you can bump up to .40SW and pay less for ammo and that makes bigger holes. I would love to have a .357SIG, but I'd want to get a lot of the other pistol calibers before I went with .357SIG.

[jad0110]

Why isn't .357 Sig more popular? Well, IMHO ...

Strike 1: Ammo cost and availability in my parts. Even if you can find it, you have to have a pretty decent sized disposable income to afford to shoot factory ammo. Which leads to ...

Strike 2: I am a reloader. .357 Sig is a auto cartridge. Cleaning up after guns that barf brass everywhere gets real old real quick (I tolerate it with my .45 1911, barely). I suppose some folks love scrounging around on their hands and knees to recover 80% of their brass. Not for me. That's why 9x19, 9x18 and .22LR are my favorite auto cartridges ... I can afford to shoot the factory stuff.

Strike 3: Its a bottleneck case and I loathe trimming cases.

Double whammy on top of having to pick up cases; double pain in the butt. Sorta like getting a root canal and a proctology exam all in the same day! :eek:

[DB62]

Thats why I love this place! I came here with just a couple of questions regarding a .357, and after reading this thread, all of my questions were answered!
Thanks Guys.
DB

[coalman]

With the ammo that matters the .357sig is a <150ps faster 9mm offering less capacity with greater recoil. What's that worth to you?

[CZguy]

With the ammo that matters the .357sig is a >150ps faster 9mm offering less capacity with greater recoil. What's that worth to you?

Me personally...........quite a bit.

[psyshack]

It's the watered down 9x25 Dillon.

[Peter M. Eick]

Nothing is wrong with the 357 sig. It is just another great round among many. I think that you can make a lot of arguments for and against it but in the end it is just another good round.

Compared to say the 45GAP it is doing great.

[rbernie]

The reason I sold mine off was due to the cartridges fatal flaw.

BULLET SETBACK

Just two reloadings was enough to generate almost . 060" of bullet setback in duty grade carry ammunition in my g32

This would be OK if I were an officer shooting the ammo as practice that I carry with the .gov footing the bill.

But as a ccw piece that gets loaded and unloaded often for cleaning or to use practice loads this quickly became a problem
This.

Also, I can't reload it with my other .355 bullets because it demands a very short bullet ogive. I'm not interested in a 9mm/.355 chambering if I can't share projectiles between it and my other chambers of the same caliber.

[briantf]

>>>
Also, I can't reload it with my other .355 bullets because it demands a very short bullet ogive. I'm not interested in a 9mm/.355 chambering if I can't share projectiles between it and my other chambers of the same caliber.
>>>

Baloney. Just say you don't care for it, don't stretch the truth to justify it. I reload the same 115 gr Hornady XTP in both 9mm and 357 SIG, I just use a lot more Power Pistol for the 357.

Sheesh.

Regards,
Brian in CA

[dubya450]

I had a glock g32 in 357 sig and love the idea and ballistics of the round BUT for someone who doesn't reload (yet) it is a very expensive round. At least in my neck of the woods. And realistically I personally don't need another cartridge for a handgun, I can use my 45 acp (self defense) and 10mm (hunting sidearm) for anything I need a pistol for. Others people are different, thank god!

[Manny]

Having seen some wounding profiles and read results of shootings with the .357 Sig round I would love to own one. BUT the additional cost over the 9mm I usually shoot for my primary purpose of punching holes in paper isn't justified. Instead I kinda came up with a "poor man's .357 Sig", shooting hot +p or +p+ in a long barrel Glock 17L. The extra barrel length helps me in two ways; first it wrings the maximum fps out of the ammo, secondly it helps me with sighting as I can see the front sight much easier with the longer slide.

I found some chronograph figures someone posted one time with the extra fps on a longer barrel G34 or 17L and the hot ammo gets you into .357 Sig territory. One of these days if I can afford it I'd like to see how much gain .357 Sig would see in a similar long barrel.

[rbernie]

Baloney. Just say you don't care for it, don't stretch the truth to justify it. I reload the same 115 gr Hornady XTP in both 9mm and 357 SIG, I just use a lot more Power Pistol for the 357.

Not baloney.

I have pistols that simply will not feed the short OAL resulting from using 357Sig bullets in a 9mm or 38 Super, and I certainly cannot use any bullet designed for 9mm or even 38 Super in my 357Sig due to their long OAL and ogive.

Oh, and you might want to take care to recall that this forum is called The High Road for a reason. You are more than welcome to engage in debate, but are expected to do so without name-calling or boorish behavior.

[AK103K]

I had some problems using standard 9mm 124 grain ball type bullets in the 357SIG, so I didnt bother after trying. 147grain bullets are more along the lines of the 125 grain 357SIG bullets in shape, and werent as much of a issue. I just didnt get very good results with the couple of loads tried, so I didnt bother with them either. 357SIG specific 125 grain bullets worked the best for me.

Now, going in the reverse, I didnt have any troubles at all. When I got rid of my 357SIG's and had around 2000 rounds of reloads I couldnt/wouldnt trade off, I pulled the bullets, dumped the powder, decapped the primers, found a usable load for 9mm, and re reloaded them all in my 9mm brass without issue. They all worked fine too.

[1canvas]

I like the sig round in my G23 with a G32 barrel. I never get setback with Gold Dot or HSTs. as far as target ammo I buy from Georgia arms @ 30.00 per 100.00 [9.00 shipped], for SD ammo I can easily find it online for less than .45 ammo. for both 9mm and the sig round I don't go below 124grns. and with the 4 major ammo companies the 125grn sig runs about 100 to 150fps over hot 124-127grn +P 9mm. as far as a defense round that stops a person from doing you harm, all that I have read it does that very well. in the hands of a seasoned shooter the recoil and report is a non-issue. although you can find hot 9mm ammo from smaller ammo manufactures those same companies produce much hotter 357sig rounds. I'm not saying its the best or even so much better than others, but in the hands of a seasoned shooter its a very effective SD round.

[gym]

It just isn't much different than what's already out there in the top 3. I have guns in all 3 calibers, 9,40,and 45, and I like to shoot the 9mm, because it really doesn't make that great a difference if you shoot well. The 45 is what I would carry, and have shot enough of all 3 to not have it make much of a difference which I practice with, other than the cash.But sometimes a small 9 is much easier to carry than any of the others because they make so many guns in 9. Adding yet another round to stock, is just redundant.I would prefer another 1911, before a 357, because I like the trigger in a 1911, in 45.

[meanmrmustard]

It's a fun round to shoot, but it ends there. I don't reload, so that part is redundant. It's expensive to buy, but not too hard to find. I like the ballistics if the sig better than .40. Near supersonic at 100 yards. Not bad.

Did I mention it's expensive?

[Skribs]

Compared to say the 45GAP it is doing great.

That's because the idea behind .45 GAP was a smaller cartridge, and yet somehow they ended up with less capacity than .45 ACP in the same guns. Duty-sized XD and Glock have 13 rounds each in ACP, 9 and 10 (respectively) in GAP.

.357 SIG is also a stronger cartridge than 9mm, while the GAP is slightly more anemic.

[M1key]

I agree with the reloading comments. I prefer reloading for straight wall cases.

I own and shoot a G31 and G33. I like the better feed characteristics, especially in my short-barreled CCW G33. Also, the fact that I can simply drop in a 40 barrel (or vice versa) and shoot a different caliber. This aspect makes it a big plus for me...

M

[Elkins45]

Waking up a slightly dormant thread to add my $0.02: My house gun is a Sig 229 in 357 Sig. Why? Because its the exact gun and cartridge carried by the Sexret Service. I figure if it's the preferred cartridge of the people who protect the President then it's probably good enough to me.

Reloading bottleneck cartridges pistol isn't as difficult as some posts have made it seem. Besides, a bottleneck round affords the luxury of a truly fully supported feed ramp while still feeding well. I have discovered that the Lee 105 grain SWC bullet can be sized to .356 and shoots beautifully as a Sig practice round.

[Bovice]

There's nothing wrong with 357 sig, I just got into it and it's my new favorite caliber.

[CZguy]

I've liked the .357 Sig since it's introduction. The only thing wrong with it, is it's not in style right now. By that I mean light fast bullets.

These things come and go.

[Robert101]

There is nothing wrong with the .357 SIG. My rationale in handgun autoloaders is that I have a .22LR for plinking (no reloading), started carry with a .380 many years ago, then had to have a 45 because real men shoot 45's (right?), then had to have a 10MM, and now CCW a 40. I just never saw a need for the 357 SIG in my evolution of buying guns that's all.

[BigG]

The neck is too short for the bottleneck to properly hold the bullets in reloaded ammo. It's a pretty good round but only in factory ammo so it is a little higher than having a 9mm or 40 S&W.

[ny32182]

It CAN be reloaded, it is just a PITA compared to straight wall cartridges.

The neck is too short for the bottleneck to properly hold the bullets in reloaded ammo. It's a pretty good round but only in factory ammo so it is a little higher than having a 9mm or 40 S&W.

Neck tension is not contingent on whether the brass has ever been used before, it is just contingent on correct sizing, like other rounds.

[AK103K]

The neck is too short for the bottleneck to properly hold the bullets in reloaded ammo.
With a proper load, its not a issue.

It CAN be reloaded, it is just a PITA compared to straight wall cartridges.
Its really not. One extra step with a .40 carbide sizer, and no lube.

Ive loaded a ton of it, and never had any problems, other than occasionally turning random .40 brass into 357SIG. :)

[wally]

What's wrong with 357 Sig?

A lot less than with the .45 GAP! :neener:

[Bovice]

I just got my dies set up for .357 SIG tonight and it was a snap. I don't see how this is any harder than straight-wall reloading. You set the sizing die down to the shell plate (just like every other caliber) and run brass through it. Case lube isn't that much of an inconvenience. It comes in a pump spray bottle (I use dillon case lube), spray a few cases in a box and shake it up. I decapped and sized the major diameter with my .40 sizer anyway. Easy.

I left a bruise on my thumb trying to get the dummy rounds to slip into the case. They didn't budge, not even 0.001".

I'm going to use AA #9 and support the bullet with a compressed charge.

[ku4hx]

I just got my dies set up for .357 SIG tonight and it was a snap. I don't see how this is any harder than straight-wall reloading. You set the sizing die down to the shell plate (just like every other caliber) and run brass through it. Case lube isn't that much of an inconvenience. It comes in a pump spray bottle (I use dillon case lube), spray a few cases in a box and shake it up. I decapped and sized the major diameter with my .40 sizer anyway. Easy.

I left a bruise on my thumb trying to get the dummy rounds to slip into the case. They didn't budge, not even 0.001".

I'm going to use AA #9 and support the bullet with a compressed charge.
I did the exact same with AA9 with excellent results. Then when I ran out of the AA stuff tried Ramshot Silhouette.

Working up to Ramshot's max load of 8.3 grains gave me a clocked MV of slightly higher than the 1320fps they claim. Given the max Ramshot Silhouette load is 8.3 grains vs. 13.0 for AA9, I'm going to Ramshot Silhouette for my next batch of 357 Sig loads with 124/125 grain JHP. Over 300 more loads per pound using Silhoutte and according to my PACT2 chronograph, the MV difference is not worth the extra powder AA9 calls for.

Alliant Power Pistol at their max level yields similar results with MV being closer to 1350fps. But I've less PP than Silhouette and my standard cast boolit load in 9mm is 5.5 grains PP so it's spoken for so to speak.

No idea if it has any bearing whatsoever, but my barrel is a Lone Wolf and its chamber IS tighter than the Glock's 357 Sig barrel I bought for my son's G22.

*** As always, max and near max charges should be approached with caution incorporating all the usual and customary loading safety protocols and procedures. ***

[bluepig]

the sig cartrage has more possabilities than the 40 or 9 p plus plus cant even get close to sig ammo i got some grizzley rounds that produce 1850 fps and 690 lbs at the muzzle. cant get that out of 40 or 9. the sig costs more but if you have to penetrate and be on target .357 sig is the round of the future.

[PabloJ]

How come the 357 sig is not more popular? Is it too loud? Does it kick to hard or to much muzzle flip? I've never had the opportunity to shoot one but I would think it would be more popular.

I know some will say that ammo is hard to find, but it's kinda a chicken or the egg thing here- if more people purchased it more ammo would become available.

I'm surprised that law enforcement does not use it more, it seems like a great round through barriers.

Someone please fill me in :D
Now that I own Glock 29SF and can get drop in Lone Wolf barrel in this caliber there is nothing wrong with it. It is wealthy man's 7.62x25.

[bluepig]

i got a m@p 40 with all 3 barells 3 guns in one . but for personal or home protection i prefer .357 sig 9 is good for plinking

[jim goose]

All guns fill a niche in their caliber and platform somewhere. For example is .357 sig a practical range caliber? Probably not when you can buy 9mm cheaper etc..You can also argue that a .357 mag/38 special snubby is not a good range gun either, but we buy thousands of them and fire them infrequently because they hurt.

For me personally, that is where I put the SIG .357 round. Put it in a small package like the g33, or M&P compact, and there is a great argument for 10 rounds of sig .357 over 5 of .357 magnum or .38p on your ankle or in your pocket. Also 9mm++ aint cheap either.

So if I'm looking for a good ccw, with some serious punch, I think its a great option in a compact platform.

[OilyPablo]

I like .357Sig and I don't need to apologize for appreciating this round in a 6.2" barrel. :D:fire::neener: