Pitbull magnum?


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zignal_zero
March 14, 2012, 12:08 AM
ok, i'm sure you guys are familiar with the Charter Arms Pitbull, but in case anyone reading this is not - it is a small double action revolver chambered in 40 S&W that does not need moon clips.

ok, here's what i am wondering. i have owned both 10mm and 40 S&W. i realize there are more differences, between the two, than just OAL. however, i really don't see how any of those differences could make it impossible for a revolver to be capable of firing both. am i missing something? or would it be completely possible for Charter Arms to make a magnum version of the Pitbull that fires both 10mm and 40 S&W the way a .357 fires 38spc? keep in mind - in the Pitbull the cartridge is NOT guaged on the mouth of the case (as in an auto), it is held in place by the rim area (can't say "rim"). so.... over all length of the cartridge should not be an issue. nor should the difference in primer sizes be one.

is there any reason this gun can not be made? because as much as i really do want a Pitbull, a Pit Mag would be way more appealing :evil:

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hariph creek
March 14, 2012, 12:16 AM
I've wondered the same thing.
Would it beat the gun up?
Would it blow the gun up?
Do the chambers need to be machined to take the longer case?

Could be very neat. I don't have the money or expertise to test it out.

kozak6
March 14, 2012, 06:20 AM
Their .357 Mag Pug seems to be similar in size and just a couple ounces heavier, so maybe it could work.

The demand might not be there for it, though.

eldon519
March 14, 2012, 06:24 AM
I think the 10mm operates at 37,500 psi vs the .40 at 35,000 psi. That's pretty close, but maybe it is just a little too much? I have a feeling it would shorten the life of the gun, but it still might be pretty reasonable.

mgregg85
March 14, 2012, 06:50 AM
How does the revolver set the headspace? If it indexes off the case mouth then you could ream each cylinder hole out, provided the whole cylinder is long enough to support it. Then get yourself a nice long string for the trigger and start testing with some double tap full power 10mm ammo.

hardluk1
March 14, 2012, 11:47 AM
Contact charter and ask someone in management about a 10mm version. Not a CS person. Maybe it is something that could be in the future.

hariph creek
March 14, 2012, 02:07 PM
kozak6, I think your right. I doubt the demand is there.
But as a modification...?

zignal_zero
March 15, 2012, 04:29 AM
How does the revolver set the headspace? If it indexes off the case mouth then you could ream each cylinder hole out, provided the whole cylinder is long enough to support it. Then get yourself a nice long string for the trigger and start testing with some double tap full power 10mm ammo.


that's the beauty of it. unless i'm mistaken, the Pitbull is not headspaced off the case mouth. for lack of a better term, it has built in "moon clips". you simply push the cartridge into the chamber and spring loaded grabbers hold it by the same area that an extractor claw would grab it by. so, i don't see how there could be a problem by having the chambers lengthened to 10mm depth, except the free bore when you cranked off a shorter 40 S&W. but that never seems to be a problem with 38 spc.

yea, i'm gonna get ahold of them because i really think the demand IS there. i mean - if both were available (40 S&W and 10mm/40 S&W), is there anybody here that would opt for the 40? with a Ruger SP101, i see absolutely no reason to get the 38 only model when the 357/38 can be had in the exact same external dimensions (i've had both) and i feel the same way about the Pitbull/Pitmag.

fatcat4620
March 15, 2012, 06:19 AM
S&W makes or made a 10mm wheel gun so I dont see why charter could not. I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Rollie
March 15, 2012, 06:30 PM
I think you will find it head spaces off a step in each of the chambers of the cylinder, and the tabs are only for extraction. This eliminates the need for moon clips as are found in many other rimless cartridge revolvers to remove the empties.

LawofThirds
March 16, 2012, 11:15 AM
It handles .357 magnum pressures with thicker walls (And I guarantee if you run full load 37k psi .357 loads in a charter, it'll shake loose very quick), the loss of wall thickness is why they won't make it in 10mm. Add in the old norma loadings running around and you'd have a recipe for disaster.

Of course.... if you knew the safety margin of your chosen 10mm load, what kind of metallurgy the charter uses, and where those two met.... and had a 10mm reamer.... and were willing of course to accept responsibility for all your actions...

Well, a light weight 5 shot 10mm would be pretty slick. A 5 shot L-Frame in titanium would be pretty cool too and would probably be able to handle full loads.

zignal_zero
March 16, 2012, 11:28 AM
Rollie nailed it! I gave them a call and the built in clips are just for extraction, it actually head spaces off the case mouth which runs my idea. Oh well, it was nice to think about.

Lee D
March 16, 2012, 12:48 PM
with a little more barrel and a set of adjustable sights it would make for an excellent do-it-all type revolver. id be interested

Carne Frio
March 16, 2012, 01:04 PM
Taurus also makes a 2", five shot in 40 S&W; the Model 405.
I have one and tried to insert a 10mm cartridge. It won't go
in all the way. There is enough length of the cylinder, so that
you could ream each hole to fit a 10mm. I don't think that I
will do that, though. The Taurus uses moon clips.

drunkensobriety
March 16, 2012, 07:13 PM
Actually the case differences between the .40 S&W and the 10mm Auto are negligible. A difference of .003 in a few dimensions. OAL is the main difference. They do however operate at different pressures. IF the 10mm round will fit in the cylinder without blocking it's ability to rotate: then carne is correct. There's a 90% chance you'd be able to fire all the 10mm auto in the gun you wanted without that much psi difference harming the firearm.

For legal reasons it's not recommended: but then again neither is hand loading.

.40 S&W is nothing more than 10mm cut down to accept lighter powder charges without bulging the casing due to uneven powder burn.

Soldiernurse
March 16, 2012, 08:45 PM
Received my Charter Arms .40 Pitbull. Very light, CCW. I'll go to indoor shooting range tomorrow.

zignal_zero
March 16, 2012, 10:56 PM
SoldierNurse -

let us know how it goes and (if ya can) post up some pix. just cuz it'll never be offered as a .40/10mm combo doesn't mean i've totally lost interest. i still need a 40 and i'm leaning towards wheelgun :D

Soldiernurse
March 17, 2012, 07:22 PM
SoldierNurse -

let us know how it goes and (if ya can) post up some pix. just cuz it'll never be offered as a .40/10mm combo doesn't mean i've totally lost interest. i still need a 40 and i'm leaning towards wheelgun :D
zignal_zero; Range Report... very, very pleased. Especially like the single axn 3lb trigger pull. Very accurate 7-15 yds. My interest to this revolver was related to already have .40 S&W ammo for my XD40sc.

I'll post pics later... on my iPhone4 now.

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