Delayed on PICS


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ATBackPackin
March 14, 2012, 06:11 PM
Living in Pennsylvania means they used PICS versus NICS. I am not positive but thought I had heard that if you were delayed on NICS that they have either 3 or 5 business days to make a decision.?.? Conformation on that please.

OK here is a little background. I have bought dozens of guns in the state of Pennsylvania through PICS and have never had a problem. I have a rare name, very rare, and I always included my social on my 4473. Because of these two things the proceed usually comes very fast for me.

Well today I went to pick up a Kel Tec SUB 2000 that was ordered for me and had finally come in. I was extremely excited. I start to fill out the paper work and the dealer asks if I have a new license. Huh? As it turns out my license is expired. So I apologized for the inconvenience and said I would go renew it and come back. Off to the Fast Tags to renew my license and was back within twenty minutes. Fill out my paper work and begin the wait as they call it in. Well as you know it comes back delayed. The people at the store said they were pretty certain it was because of what I just did. OK OK, I can understand that. I think I am fairly reasonable. I then said to the clerk, "They now have three days to make a decision"? She responds, "No, they have up to fifteen business days to decide". WHAT???

So I guess my bottom line question is why in the world does PICS need fifteen days to do what NICS can do in three??? There is no reason for me to be denied so this is nothing more than an inconvenience, but I was really looking forward to playing with my new toy. Seriously though, FIFTEEN DAYS. That is three weeks since it is business days.

Does this seem like an unusually long time to anybody else?

Shawn

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NavyLCDR
March 14, 2012, 06:21 PM
Did you read the law yourself? Someone is feeding a line of B.S.

6111.1. Pennsylvania State Police.
(a) Administration.--The Pennsylvania State Police shall
have the responsibility to administer the provisions of this
chapter.
(b) Duty of Pennsylvania State Police.--
(1) Upon receipt of a request for a criminal history,
juvenile delinquency history and mental health record check
of the potential purchaser or transferee, the Pennsylvania
State Police shall immediately during the licensee's call or
by return call forthwith:
(i) review the Pennsylvania State Police criminal
history and fingerprint records to determine if the
potential purchaser or transferee is prohibited from
receipt or possession of a firearm under Federal or State
law;
(ii) review the juvenile delinquency and mental
health records of the Pennsylvania State Police to
determine whether the potential purchaser or transferee
is prohibited from receipt or possession of a firearm
under Federal or State law; and
(iii) inform the licensee making the inquiry either:
(A) that the potential purchase or transfer is
prohibited; or
(B) provide the licensee with a unique approval
number.
(2) In the event of electronic failure, scheduled
computer downtime or similar event beyond the control of the
Pennsylvania State Police, the Pennsylvania State Police
shall immediately notify the requesting licensee of the
reason for and estimated length of the delay. If the failure
or event lasts for a period exceeding 48 hours, the dealer
shall not be subject to any penalty for completing a
transaction absent the completion of an instantaneous records
check for the remainder of the failure or similar event, but
the dealer shall obtain a completed application/record of
sale following the provisions of section 6111(b)(1) and (1.1)
(relating to sale or transfer of firearms) as if an
instantaneous records check has not been established for any
sale or transfer of a firearm for the purpose of a subsequent
background check.

ATBackPackin
March 14, 2012, 06:27 PM
Navy I thought she was mistaken and looked it up when I got home.


The PICS background check program issues approval or denial determinations. By law, no record information may be disseminated as a result of the background check. If a record is identified on an individual's background check, the call is transferred to an operator. The operator then reviews the record, and if it is not prohibiting, approves the sale. If there is a question as to whether or not the record is prohibiting, the operator may place the file in research for up to 15 days. As soon as the operator has a definite answer, the dealer is called and either given an approval number or advised that the sale is denied and the individual should be given a Pennsylvania Instant Check Challenge Form.

About PICS (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=4451&&PageID=461119&level=2&css=L2&mode=2)

NavyLCDR
March 14, 2012, 06:35 PM
The 15 days sounds like something the state police made up, to me, anyways. I don't see a basis in statute or the PA Administrative Code for the 15 day delay. Might want to write your state congress about it.

ATBackPackin
March 14, 2012, 06:37 PM
The 15 days sounds like something the state police made up, to me, anyways. I don't see a basis in statute or the PA Administrative Code for the 15 day delay. Might want to write your state congress about it.
OK, thanks for your help as always Navy.

NavyLCDR
March 14, 2012, 06:47 PM
Washington State Department of Licensing did something similar. They were requiring the state background check and pistol transfer form to be completed for the sale of cap and ball replica revolvers, which are specifically exempt from the requirement in the statute.

I wrote to the DOL and asked why they were requiring the background check and form on cap and ball replica revolvers when the statute specifically exempted them. They wrote back and said that elsewhere in RCW's cap and ball revolvers were defined as firearms, and since they were firearms and pistols, the background check/form was required.

I forwarded my inquiry and their answer to my state congress reps. They sent a nasty letter to the DOL asking them what they hell they were doing. DOL supposedly issued a memo to all Washington FFLs that the form was not required for replica antique revolvers, but they highly encouraged them to do the form as an option... :cuss:. The Washington DOL sent me a copy of this memo. Funny, when I showed the memo to 3 different FFLs they said they had never seen it before. More :cuss:. So I gave up.

ATBackPackin
March 14, 2012, 06:56 PM
Despicable on so many levels. We have the same problem here with Philadelphia trying to make it's own gun laws even though the State Constitution strictly forbids it. Yet they still get away with it.

Beak50
March 14, 2012, 07:12 PM
Pennsylvania has a very slow Government process when it comes to anything,getting my driver's license transferred,social security card replacement the list goes on.But boy they want that money.

NavyLCDR
March 14, 2012, 07:16 PM
Pennsylvania has a very slow Government process when it comes to anything,getting my driver's license transferred,social security card replacement the list goes on.But boy they want that money.

It is interesting that the State of Pennsylvania charges you for a service the Federal government provides for free.

brboyer
March 15, 2012, 01:52 AM
Look Further down....
(7) For purposes of the enforcement of 18 U.S.C.
922(d)(9), (g)(1) and (s)(1) (relating to unlawful acts), in
the event the criminal history or juvenile delinquency
background check indicates a conviction for a misdemeanor
that the Pennsylvania State Police cannot determine is or is
not related to an act of domestic violence, the Pennsylvania
State Police shall issue a temporary delay of the approval of
the purchase or transfer. During the temporary delay, the
Pennsylvania State Police shall conduct a review or
investigation of the conviction with courts, local police
departments, district attorneys and other law enforcement or
related institutions as necessary to determine whether or not
the misdemeanor conviction involved an act of domestic
violence. The Pennsylvania State Police shall conduct the
review or investigation as expeditiously as possible. No
firearm may be transferred by the dealer to the purchaser who
is the subject of the investigation during the temporary
delay. The Pennsylvania State Police shall notify the dealer
of the termination of the temporary delay and either deny the
sale or provide the unique approval number under paragraph
(4).

So if the OP's record check came back (correctly or incorrectly) with a questionable misdemeanor conviction, the State Police can delay the approval as long is necessary to resolve the matter. Looks like they have decided (as allowed by statute) to have a rule that limits this to 15 days.

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