New Record


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dillardrg
March 15, 2012, 04:11 PM
http://homemadedefense.blogspot.com/2010/05/new-record.html

Amazing

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JimBoIHN
March 15, 2012, 04:35 PM
Or incredible or........whatever superlative you can conjure up. Must have been dead still and perhaps the satellites could provide exact yardage. Wonder what bullet he was using? Probably something secret. What a steady hand he must possess. Can't get lucky twice in a row can you? Don't think so. Some of you guys estimate what the drop was per foot at impact.

Cesiumsponge
March 15, 2012, 05:09 PM
Old news but it doesn't surprise me. The AIAW is a fantastic platform. The article is also inaccurate. You can pick up a fully loaded version for $8000, plus $3500 for the optics (a recent price hike) and about $1500 for the can. For $25k you can buy two. Even with ancilliaries, a single rifle system wouldn't cost $25k. If Zak Smith swings by, he can chime in on drop at 2700 yards since he uses this platform.

svtruth
March 16, 2012, 12:43 PM
The Military Channel was doing ten best sniper rifles (eventually they will get around to 10 best MREs) and mentioned the Chey Tac, so I Googled it and it is only fielded by three countries, none of them the US and A.
I was surprised.
Does anyone know why?

Weedy
March 16, 2012, 12:51 PM
Kind of ironic that the guy is from a country that barely allows it's subjects to own single-shot shotguns.
Amazing shot.

Cesiumsponge
March 16, 2012, 12:56 PM
Check out the Sniper's Hide forum and you'll see several threads about Cheytac and the owners which dropped 5 figures for the platforms. The company went silent if I recall and many people who bought these rifles had severe problems. I think there were infringement issues too on design. They did manage to have an overwhelming advertising/promotion campaign though. It should be noted the Cheytac chambering is still around but Cheytac never manufactured the ammo.

svtruth
March 16, 2012, 01:43 PM
Thanks.
According to the wikipedia entry the bullet was key to performance by having rotational and frontal air resistance equal.
I'm not sophisticated enough to know if that is BS or not.

Cesiumsponge
March 16, 2012, 03:07 PM
The ballistics on the .375 and .408 Cheytac are fantastic. The rifles...well you'll have to look around and draw your own conclusions.

Orkan
March 16, 2012, 03:15 PM
My conclusion is drawn:
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/450x450/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/t/htifixed1.jpg

I handled an HTI at SHOT. Incredible platform. I own an SRS, so it will be a no brainer to pick up an HTI when I'm ready for 375CT.

Ryanxia
March 16, 2012, 03:34 PM
A shot (actually two) at that range is just crazy.

CountryUgly
March 16, 2012, 04:57 PM
Insane but way cool......

Cesiumsponge
March 16, 2012, 05:40 PM
I considered the DTA SRS for a precision rifle. Maybe it'll be my next purchase if I go magnum and it has a few more years of service in LE and hopefully MIL.

Ankeny
March 17, 2012, 02:26 PM
Some of you guys estimate what the drop was per foot at impact. No clue what ammo he was shooting. But the factory Lapua loading with the 250 grainer would drop 450 feet at 2700 yards with a 600 yard zero. That's roughly 191 MOA. I wonder what kind of sighting system he uses to make that correction.

Orkan
March 17, 2012, 02:56 PM
I assume it was a S&B optic. In which case he'd have between 22-28 mils available in the turret, with an additional 6-8 mils on the reticle at max power. So, he would have to back the magnification down to get a hold on a stadia near the bottom of the reticle. With a 100yd zero, Shooter is calling for 52.7 mils of drop.

A shot like this is about 99% luck, with the remaining 1% being all of the skill and accumulated experience of that shooter's life. The top shooters in the world couldn't make that shot with even a 10% hit ratio. (I'd imagine it would be a lot less) Anyone who's spent any real time behind a 338LM at range knows what I'm talking about.

Ankeny
March 17, 2012, 03:02 PM
The top shooters in the world couldn't make that shot with even a 10% hit ratio. (I'd imagine it would be a lot less). A lot, lot, less.

Cesiumsponge
March 17, 2012, 06:57 PM
Accuracy International makes a 48MOA base for their .338 platforms and I believe specifically for the S&B 5-25x56mm PM II series which is designed to put the erector near the bottom at a 100m zero to utilize full travel. 48MOA = 13.1 mils in addition to the 27 mils from the S&B. This will give you roughly 40mils or about 137.5 MOA. I'm not sure what reticle they use (I assume the P4) but the sniper would have to dial back to maximize the scale and do a holdover to get the rest of the way there.

Orkan figured out roughly 52.7 mils, so 12.7 mils of holdover, which puts you close pretty close to the limitations of the mechanical and optical limits of the scope/mounting system. Working on the assumption my math isn't botched, 8120 feet and a 6' tall man would result in a target that ranges at 0.698 mils...that is pretty small even at 25x. Here is a photo, from http://www.finnaccuracy.com, of a S&B at 25x on a red house 2150m which is 7,053.8 feet using the P4F reticle. You can see at 25x, you only have 8 mils of holdover, so he had to dial it back to gain more reticle.
http://www.finnaccuracy.com/kuvat/SB/SB_P4F_25x_2150m.jpg
Here is the reticle that gives access to the required mils for holdover. The magnification is 15x. The major horizontal line at the bottom is 10 mils, so count down another two 1 mil hashes and an extra .5mil hash, come down about half the spacing between that and the next hash and center it on a .7mil tall target.
http://www.finnaccuracy.com/kuvat/SB/SB_P4F_15x_2150m.jpg

Here is a schematic of the popular P4 reticle
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s307/Louman64/Schmidt%20Bender/P4FineDiagram.jpg

You can see how tiny a man-sized target would be.

Orkan
March 18, 2012, 12:57 PM
Cesiumsponge, you aren't quite right there. The sloped base isn't "added" into the equation. All that does is give you the ability to maximize the available adjustment of your optic. The key factors are the available internal elevation of the optic, and the available holds on the reticle. Get too much slope on your rail, and you won't be able to maintain a 100yd zero. This is determined by the scope's adjustment. If you have an optic with about 18 mils max adjustment, then you'd only be able to go with a 30moa rail max to maintain a 100yd zero. The more adjustment available, the more slope you can go with, which in turn pushes your max range out farther.

So, lets say he had a 100yd zero, and 28 mils available in his turret. That leaves 24.7 mils left to hold via reticle. In my Premier 5-25, I have to back the power down to just below 7x to get that much hold over. A person standing at 2700yds is VERY small at 7x magnification.

Cesiumsponge
March 18, 2012, 01:25 PM
Orkan, my apologies as I was thinking about the problem incorrectly, as the sloped base simply allows one to maximize existing internal adjustment over the full range of travel instead of typically cutting useful travel half, and does not add more mechanical elevation adjustment.

I have a question. I don't have a S&B (I do have a spot on the 3-20x pre-order though). S&B's website lists 27mils of elevation adjustment for the 5-25x. Is this 27 mils of total travel available from zero stop and none beyond the second turn? I am aware the two-turn turret design but will the turret simply hard stop at the end of the second turn? I have a 30mm tube USO SN-3 which allows a total of 33.7 mils of internal adjustment from my zero stop using the EREK system. It's engraved for two revolutions but I can go beyond as there is no hard stop after the 2nd revolution and after 33.7 mils I'll run into a hard stop. It seems like a 34mm tube should allow a bit more adjustment but since I'm unfamiliar with S&B, I'm making some silly assumptions.

I've only found one photo of the 5-25x at 5x and it appears that'll give you the necessary holdover, so as you mentioned. If I recall, the lower end of the S&B is subject to strange tunneling effects so 5-8x only changes field of view so that view should be about what one would see if fielding the 5-25x on the low end. That makes it even more impressive!

http://www.finnaccuracy.com/kuvat/SB/SB_P4_5x_420m.jpg

Orkan
March 18, 2012, 01:54 PM
That's correct. Hard stop at 27 mils. My premier does the same thing, except at 28 mils. Strangely enough, this premier started falling apart after some 338LM... so I sent it in for service. Before I sent it in, it was a 27.3 max... after it returned, it is a full 28 mils. Needless to say I have no faith in this optic until it survives at least 1000rnds of 338LM. To get back on track, yes, 2 turns and a hard stop at 27 mils at the end of the 2nd turn. That is a function of how the zero-stop works.

That picture appears to be a P4 reticle. A P4F would be a lot thinner at that magnification. Also, you are spot on regarding the S&B's tunneling. I'm not a fan of tunneling either, so when I have US Optics build a scope for me, I have them stop the magnification at the point where it would tunnel. On a 3.2-17, it ends up being right at 5x. I end up with a 5-17 that doesn't tunnel... it's outstanding. :) Just the fact that USO can and will do it for you if requested is a testament to their outstanding level of service. John and company are fantastic.

Beak50
March 19, 2012, 07:06 AM
Very interesting,go's to show how knowledgeable some of the long range shooters on this forum can be.excellent.

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