Ban on lead bullets


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Buckyt
March 16, 2012, 06:00 PM
I was watching CNN today and saw a discussion that sounded like the Govt wants to ban lead bullets. There were 2 guys one pro and the other con. The fellow who was pro lead ban said that water fowlers were happy with the lead ban for water fowl hunting.
Did I hear this right, or did I dream it?
I have never shot steel shot, so I don't know, but is it competetively priced with lead, and is it as effective?

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mdauben
March 16, 2012, 06:04 PM
The fellow who was pro lead ban said that water fowlers were happy with the lead ban for water fowl hunting.
I'm not a waterfowl hunter, so I don't know if they are generally happy (or grudgingly accepting of) non-lead shot or not. However, shot and bullets are two different things. You can't just substitute hard steel slugs in a gun designed to shoot soft lead bullets.

SlamFire1
March 16, 2012, 06:32 PM
I think it is only a matter of time till there is a total ban on lead bullets.

Just search the web and read about all the groups pushing for lead bullet and sinker bans.

SharpsDressedMan
March 16, 2012, 06:46 PM
They dont like teflon bullets, tungsten core bullets, steel core bullets, exploding bullets, and now lead bullets. I think we should quit asking them what they like, and ask them which kind they'd prefer to be shot with. :cuss:

gunnutery
March 16, 2012, 06:48 PM
I saw a very similar video on foxnews.com and the host said that the lawsuit from 2010 involving the EPA was dismissed. Last I had heard, the EPA was going to have a better look at it, but I was glad to hear it was dismissed.

About the whole "being happy about steel shot" I think is a stretch. I've never heard any waterfowl hunters laughing and giggling about how happy they were about shooting steel instead of that outdated lead stuff. :)

I don't think Congress is going to allow this to happen, they know it could cost them their jobs. I can MAYBE see outlawing it for hunting only, but an all-out ban on lead bullets is NOT going to happen.

EdJennings
March 16, 2012, 06:55 PM
I would tend to agree, but then again I have seen things happen in this country in recent years that I never thought would/could happen. I don't look for a lead ban in my lifetime, don't know about some of you young guys.

hermannr
March 16, 2012, 07:05 PM
Ross Lake National Recreational area (run by NPS) has had a "management plan" in place since the 60's that included hunting (forced on them by congress)..last year they went out to "update" their management plan, of the three options we were supposed to choose from, all three banned lead bullets.

Pilot
March 16, 2012, 07:07 PM
Are they going to ban the lead that is formed naturally in the Earth also? :fire:

Liberty1776
March 16, 2012, 09:47 PM
The fellow who was pro lead ban said that water fowlers were happy with the lead ban for water fowl hunting.

that is, in my opinion as a former duck hunter, a load of crap...

JohnM
March 16, 2012, 09:52 PM
Quote:
The fellow who was pro lead ban said that water fowlers were happy with the lead ban for water fowl hunting.
that is, in my opinion as a former duck hunter, a load of crap...

Someone should have asked him how much waterfowling he's done.
My guess is none and he's probably totally opposed to hunting of all types.

Bassleg
March 16, 2012, 10:06 PM
Lead for Ducking is this best for a good quick kills and steel cripples a lot of birds that die
a slow death. my two cents

Romeo 33 Delta
March 16, 2012, 10:08 PM
I was under the impressioin that lead BULLETS (projectiles fired from pistols and rifles) were Federally exempted from any rulings by the EPA and like agencies ... dating back to the passage of the '68 Gun Control Act.

Gator 23
March 16, 2012, 10:49 PM
I duck hunt. Agree, steel cripples ducks and lead penetrates - allowing quick kills. It was always frustrating to have to spend more money on steel loads and know it performs inferior to lead.

Pacsd
March 17, 2012, 12:30 AM
I don't put ANYTHING past this administration. (*&*^$## it.

jduff8505
March 17, 2012, 12:38 AM
I don't like the idea of sending steel down my shotgun's barrel, much less a rifle. I'm even a little leary of the steel casings that some manufacturers are using now. Just my $.02 worth.

Jeff

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
March 17, 2012, 12:42 AM
Well, for waterfowling shotgunners, you have tungsten which, by all accounts, penetrates as well if not better than lead. But no I am in no way promoting this farce. Just saying there are alternatives to waterfowlers. As far as rifle and handgun ammo, there is also many brands of monolithic bullets on the market that are performing very well it seems. So there are alternatives if needed and more than likely, they will be needed with the little girly people we have in office nowadays.

Owen Sparks
March 17, 2012, 12:58 AM
Now that so many high preformance bullets are made of pure copper or guilding metal the government will probably abandon the lead ban angle. This was NEVER about lead toxcisity but about keeping commonors from obtaining ammunition.

Jeff F
March 17, 2012, 01:03 AM
I have a few bullet molds and I have hundreds of pounds of lead. More then I can cast and shoot in my lifetime, I'm good.

Owen Sparks
March 17, 2012, 01:55 AM
My father owned a print shop. I inherited six thousand pounds of Linotype metal.

SharpsDressedMan
March 17, 2012, 02:01 AM
A hundred pounds of lead is about 2500-2600 .45 bullets. Several hundred pounds would not last ME a lifetime. Several thousand pounds might see me from age 60 to age 90. Well, at least for .45's...................:D

gbran
March 17, 2012, 02:20 AM
Lead bans have nothing to do with saving wildlife or the environment and everything to do with infringement,

Twiki357
March 17, 2012, 03:33 AM
I don't believe their reasons for lead bans are any more valid than al gore's support of global warming. Unfortunately, it seems to be working in a lot of areas.

I do know that the last time I managed to get some wheel weights, there were a lot of them that were made out of something other than lead. And the only local source I had for wheel weights (Discount Tire) dried up. According to the store manager, because "Headquarters" started to mandate that all the used ones had to be shipped to their supplier for reuse.

Cearbhall
March 17, 2012, 04:47 AM
This issue is a new petition by the Center for Biological Diversity, same as last year's. They'll never stop trying till they get their way. Link:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/lead-03-13-2012.html

Kaeto
March 17, 2012, 08:01 AM
Several of my guns can only use pure lead projectiles. Some because of the design, others because of age.

beatledog7
March 17, 2012, 08:13 AM
Ban lead bullets/shot because they hurt wildlife that were not the hunter's target. Ban various coatings because they can leach into the groundwater. Tax copper and steel loads because those metals are needed for other uses...and so on.

Stated goals: protect environment and support various responsible, jobs-of-the-future-producing [read, gov't-friendly] industries.

Actual goal: make shooting as expensive and restrictive as possible so that people are discouraged from owning guns but the perpetrators of the laws and regulations can show that they have not restricted RKBA.

ol' scratch
March 17, 2012, 10:59 AM
This issue is a new petition by the Center for Biological Diversity, same as last year's. They'll never stop trying till they get their way. Link:
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2012/lead-03-13-2012.html
This says that eagles die from lead poisoning from lead projectiles. The population of eagles is exploding. Also, how could they possibly know that 20 million birds die every year from lead poisoning? They don't even know exact populations OF birds.

beatledog7
March 17, 2012, 01:40 PM
how could they possibly know that 20 million birds die every year from lead poisoning?

They don't see a need to prove this assertion or even "know" it. They find that simply saying it is enough to get people on their side.

Like global warming.

Owen Sparks
March 17, 2012, 02:17 PM
In politica there are always two reasons for everything.
The good reason and the real reason.

BTW, do you know where lead comes from before it is made into evil bullets that poison the enviroment?

They dig it up OUT OF THE GROUND! Shooters are just returning it to the Earth from where it came.

rduchateau2954
March 17, 2012, 02:25 PM
Why is it that every time I come on this site I get the urge to drop off the grid and bury guns in the woods?

Checks DVR for newest episode of "Doomsday Bunkers"

I like the lie about led shot poisoning the water of waterfowl spots.

Neverwinter
March 17, 2012, 02:33 PM
They dig it up OUT OF THE GROUND! Shooters are just returning it to the Earth from where it came.
E coli in food isn't a problem, because it's just returning to a digestive system.

They don't see a need to prove this assertion or even "know" it. They find that simply saying it is enough to get people on their side.

Like global warming.
There is a link at the bottom of the petition to scientific studies on lead exposure. However, if someone is willing to ignore the data on climate science, they would probably do the same for lead exposure. Although I don't believe there's the same concerted disinformation campaign against lead poisoning as there is against climate change from the usual suspects.


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Pyro
March 17, 2012, 02:38 PM
Ban lead bullets?
Seriously?
I hope they plan to compensate all those people with firearms that are only able to fire lead bullet safety.
Not to mention the market for reloading equipment aren't going to be pleased about it either.

Ankeny
March 17, 2012, 02:54 PM
I have never shot steel shot, so I don't know, but is it competetively priced with lead, and is it as effective? No and no. The only ban on lead bullets that at least makes some sense is in the case of big game herd reduction where the meat is given away to the needy.

Old Dog Man
March 17, 2012, 03:17 PM
When all this started to get crazy along the Tx. gulf coast, the duck & goose hunters had to go to steel shot. Like stated lot's were wounded and died later leaving the hunters frustrated. Their barrels were not choked for steel shot and shooting over decoys was near impossible. Now with improved guns and more open chokes they do better. There is a gulf coast area where only steel is allowed for shooting anything, because it's the feeding area for ducks and geese. There are a bunch of unhappy hunters. Al

beatledog7
March 17, 2012, 03:20 PM
Neverwinter (re: post #30):

Note that I stated no position on the veracity of the assertion; I simply noted my observation regarding why they make it.

LeonCarr
March 17, 2012, 03:21 PM
The simple solution to the banning lead bullets thing is vote for someone other than the current POTUS in November.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Hardtarget
March 18, 2012, 12:29 AM
Every time this is discussed I wonder...where are the news stories about all the piles of bodies from lead poisioning? We did have a civil war here and EVERY bullet fired was LEAD! There were two major wars fought all over Europe. They are not "dropping like flies" over there.
This is such a load if crap its almost laughable.

For the record...waterfowlers are NOT happy about steel shot. It allows wounded birds to fly on by only to drop and die later, out of sight, and lost. Just a wasted bird. Long time duck hunters I have talked to see this. There is no way for me to prove it true.

Mark

talldragon
March 18, 2012, 02:40 AM
I am not aware of any ban on lead bullets, except for Condor areas (http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/). I guess this is not really news, but also from Calif. DFG :

Non-toxic Shot No person may take ducks, geese
(including brant), or coots while possessing shot
(either in shotshells or as loose shot for muzzleloading)
other than approved non-toxic shot. For a list
of approved non-toxic shot, see (http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/CurrentBirdIssues/nontoxic.htm)

Also, from the "Waterfowl & Upland Game (http://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=37723)" regs:

"Upland game hunters are not required to use non-lead shot in areas designated as California condor range. The lead ban applies only to those hunting big game and non-game species."

A little confusing, ya think? :confused:

Personally, I have no opinion on the lethality or efficacy of the different types of shot; as I don't hunt.
I do however fully support those who do hunt and I respect their opinion as to what is most effective and humane to employ when hunting in the field.

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