Any Underhammer Shooters?


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KenHulme
March 17, 2012, 10:02 AM
Or is everyone here a CW gun buff or wheeliegun fan?

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HUnter58
March 17, 2012, 11:33 AM
Yes!

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/hunter_58/IMG_3424-1.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o293/hunter_58/AndreasBaumkircher.jpg

Old Fuff
March 17, 2012, 12:33 PM
Not at the present time, but I have in the past. One issue with regular side-lock guns is slow ignition which can cause your shot to go off if you don't hold very carefully and follow through while keeping a sight picture as a ball or bullet goes down the bore.

An underhammer may look strange, but ignition is quicker and that can make a difference. I beat a fair number of folks at target shooting who didn't know this. :evil:

Mike OTDP
March 17, 2012, 07:46 PM
HUnter58, is that pistol a Baumkircher or a Dedinski? I think the proportions are a little off for the Feinwerkbau.

HUnter58
March 17, 2012, 09:10 PM
It's a Baumkircher. I puchased this one before I had seen Tilo Dedinski's line. His offerings are very nice an balance well.

BHP FAN
March 17, 2012, 09:23 PM
let's try this again...

BHP FAN
March 17, 2012, 09:25 PM
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/bhpfan/rifle_rack.jpg

MutinousDoug
March 17, 2012, 10:55 PM
I do most of my elk hunting with an H&A underhammer in .50 but I have a TC Renegade in the truck in .54 for backup.

BHP FAN
March 18, 2012, 12:16 AM
mine is a .58, with a Tasco scope, now wearing Malcolm scope mounts with repeatable adjustments.The original mount on the scope was a crude wheel, with no markings, but with the Malcolm rings and mount, everything is marked, and you can easily return exactly to an earlier setting, in both windage and elevation, which is the key to accuracy.

fogg64
March 18, 2012, 02:58 AM
161197
This is a .45 that I shoot.

KenHulme
March 18, 2012, 11:50 AM
Decades ago, the first time I was 'into' black powder, my first rifle was the HA .45 Target model with no forearm. Ended up selling it. I had a fitrst edition of Logan's Underhammer book and lusted after making (acquiring was out of the question money wise - still is) one of my own. Fast Forward 40 years and I'm retired and with even less income than 'back in the day'. But I recently decide that it was time to do something about my own underhammer.

I've been fascinated by the Cooper "slaplock" simplicity since I first saw it - trigger and a flat spring. The one drawback that I saw was that pulling back on that stiff trigger has got to affect accuracy. I've also been fascinated by Buggy Rifles or Pistol-Carbines -- a pistol with a reasonably long barrel and a detachable shoulder stock.

So now I'm in the process of making my own .32 cal Cooper Buggy Rifle. The barrel will be 13/16" octagon, 12", attached to be pistol grip by a through-bolt breech screw. The shoulder stock will be a triangular wooden frame of dowel and flat stock. The flat spring will be two lengths of 1/16" or 3/32" music wire held in parallel with steel "end caps" that become the attachment to the barrel and the hammer head. The stock will be my own laminate of different exotic woods, in the "Florida" shape with the pointed butt (what can I say, I live in Florida). I took a pattern to a local welding/fabrication shop for them to make ring triggers on a trigger plate. I'm getting quotes for multiples, and will undoubtedly be offering action "kits" in the not too distant future.

Pictures to come as the project proceeds.

Ray P
March 18, 2012, 12:51 PM
.36 H&A underhammer.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e294/Raprat/007.jpg

Mike OTDP
March 18, 2012, 08:05 PM
I've got four Baumkircher guns myself. His triggers are fantastic.

KenHulme
March 18, 2012, 08:39 PM
Baumkircher makes beautiful underhammers, it's true. But that's why I'm building my own - mine may not end up as pretty, but it will cost a LOT less than $2200/1100EU for the low-end model!

Prairie Dawg
March 19, 2012, 05:37 AM
I shoot an old H & A underhammer made in the 70s.
I've got the matching pistol too.
Both in .45.
Too much fun!
--Dawg

Pete D.
March 19, 2012, 09:07 AM
Yep. Got this one from Bob Worthington at Greyhaven Arms:
50 cal.:http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/Underhammer2.jpg

Pete

KenHulme
March 19, 2012, 02:51 PM
I wish I could find one of the H&A underhammer pistols. Shoulda, woulda, coulda bought one back in the day!

I like that Greyhaven pistol too, Pete. When I win the lottery....

Living aboard a 26ft sailboat, I just don't have the space or tools to do much in the way of metalworking, not to mention lack of experience in tempering springs and other metal working, etc. I may however try hacksawing some sort of action from flat stock and using OTS springs.

tdstout
March 19, 2012, 04:29 PM
To be perfectly honest, I've never even seen an underhammer like that. Might be because I'm not into black powder guns, but I'll admit that those are pretty awesome!!

KenHulme
March 19, 2012, 05:07 PM
Underhammer pistols and rifles with a variety of actions were very popular in the 1825-1850 period, particularly in New England and across to Ohio.

KenHulme
March 20, 2012, 10:47 AM
Anybody heard of Rod Olsen from Herman, NE? Apparently he builds pretty inexpensive NE style pistols.

http://www.ramanon.com/forum/showthread.php?86783-CUSTOM-50-Cal.-UNDER-HAMMER-PISTOL

I'll be calling him later today!

kBob
March 20, 2012, 11:10 AM
Read an article once that speculated that John Browning (JMB's father) made under hammer guns even after moving to Ogden. THe pictured suspect pistol had a grip frame much like this custom gun.

Didn't Lyman sell an underhamer pistol that was basically a section of barrel with a breech plug forward of a section cut out for the action and a wooden grip bolted on? Might have been someone else but it always seemed to me to be a project one might do with an old barrel section and non specialiazed tools. Hammer spring would be a pain for me if the trigger guard type were used. Wonder how other spring set ups are put together?

-kBob

Old Fuff
March 20, 2012, 01:29 PM
The company in question was Numrich Arms, not Lyman. They (the guns) were inexpensive and in the hands of a good shooter often won matches where other competitors were using much more expensive rifles or pistols.

The only other spring was a small, coil trigger spring. The lockwork consisted of a hammer, trigger and two pins. The trigger guard acted as the hammer spring. You can't get less expensive or simple then that.

KenHulme
March 20, 2012, 02:14 PM
Here's the ultimately simplistic underhammer action - trigger and spring - by JR Cooper:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b282/kenhulme/CooperCopy.jpg

This action is similar to what I'm building. My spring, instead of a single bar, is a pair of music wires held in parallel to each other...

I've spoken to Rod, who will be emailing me some photos, of what he has on hand, later today.

Pete D.
March 20, 2012, 06:41 PM
The lockwork consisted of a hammer, trigger and two pins. The trigger guard acted as the hammer spring. You can't get less expensive or simple then that.

That describes the lock on the Greyhaven. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Pete

Plastikosmd
March 20, 2012, 07:40 PM
I shoot the big underhammer guns both roundball and slug.

RL Morris 3 barrel set
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/37ab84a4.jpg

One set up at the shooting bench, 60 caliber RB
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/379c7e24.jpg

My Big Gun, 69 caliber, projectile weight 1785 grains (1/4 lb) 250-350 grains of FFG. Gun weight is 75 Lbs, made by Bresien
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/eb3fc9ad.jpg

BE Wild Willy
March 20, 2012, 09:56 PM
The company in question was Numrich Arms, not Lyman. They (the guns) were inexpensive and in the hands of a good shooter often won matches where other competitors were using much more expensive rifles or pistols.

The only other spring was a small, coil trigger spring. The lockwork consisted of a hammer, trigger and two pins. The trigger guard acted as the hammer spring. You can't get less expensive or simple then that.

Here's mine...

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee502/BEWildWilly/02leftside-1.jpg

Pete D.
March 21, 2012, 06:25 AM
A slug gun. Now that is something I'd like to know more about.
Did you build that yourself? What do the slugs look like? What are the loads?
Enough there for new thread.
Pete

Plastikosmd
March 21, 2012, 09:42 AM
slugs are made in 2 parts, nose is tin/lead as not to slump when being loaded at muzzle, back is pure let to allow obturation. My guns were built by Bresien, Pierce, RL Morris. Loads vary. They are quite accurate. My pierce is dated back to the mid 1800's but still won the 600 yard match in the early 1920's. Here is a target shot by Lester Cox with my rifle (well known in BP target circles) with some load data in 1947. (This is a small 45 caliber slug gun, 450grain projectile)

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/8b9dcfb5.jpg

Nose and back, prior to swaging
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/84b1fd80.jpg

A bunch of profiles can be created with a little more/less lead and swaging. Some 630 grainers next to a 22 50g projectile

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/eac830eb.jpg


Left to right, 22 50grain, 357 148g, 45 250g, and 2 of the 69 caliber 1750+ grain. Looking close at the slugs u can see where the parting line is visible

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/933f79d9.jpg

kBob
March 21, 2012, 10:49 AM
BEwild Willy and Old Fluff,

Yep that's the one I meant. I wonder that they are not being made currently.

-kBob

Old Fuff
March 21, 2012, 11:26 AM
Unfortunately Numrich decided to back out of making guns and concentrate on their spare parts and accessories business. I believe they still offer some parts for the underhammer guns.

KenHulme
March 21, 2012, 12:39 PM
I checked Numrich recently - they have no underhammer parts you really need like hammers, triggers and triggerguard/springs

Ray P
March 22, 2012, 01:34 AM
I thought Fire & Ice (http://www.fire-iron.biz/) parts swap with an H&A

BE Wild Willy
March 22, 2012, 02:38 AM
Nice to know where to find a replacement main spring.

KenHulme
March 22, 2012, 10:41 AM
Fire & Iron parts do swap with H&A, and they sell complete actions for $175 if you want to build a rifle or carbine. Sure wish they made a pistol sized action though...

BE Wild Willy
March 25, 2012, 08:50 PM
Went out for about an hour today trying to bag a jack rabbit with my Numrich, missed two shots from 25-30 yards :(. Guessin' I should do a little more practice on paper.

mdauben
March 26, 2012, 11:59 AM
.36 H&A underhammer.

That's one handsome gun, Ray P! Very elegant looking. I always admired the lines of the H&A underhammers, but I can't ever seem to track one down when I have the money to buy it. :(

KenHulme
March 26, 2012, 08:10 PM
Mike - the H&A underhammers haven't been made for a couple decades, of course, and if you can find them they are PRICEY! But Fire & Ice, as mentioned above, makes whole rifles, as well as action ($175) to build your own.

Ray P
March 26, 2012, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Mike. Had the H&A to the range yesterday, but my neighbor kind of monopolized it (he's 12 yo), which left me shootin' the Hawkin. As Ken says, the H&As haven't been made in some time. But I do see them on occasion in GunBroker & the for sale listing of various online forums & dealers. I'm still looking for one of the short barrel canoe/coach guns H&A used to make :-)

KenHulme
March 27, 2012, 11:01 AM
I found an underhammer builder in Nebraska who doesn't charge an arm and a leg for his builds. He apparenbtly uses a Ruggles style action, and builds pistols and buggy rifles from cut-offs of his other ML projects. He's sending me some photos by snail-mail. Will let y'all know what they're like.

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