My first reload - primer not seated properly.


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John_Q
March 17, 2012, 11:14 AM
So after reading through a few manuals and books I finally get to loading my first round. I've got a Hornady Pro-jector which I inherited. It came with 9mm dies which I've checked and all looks good.

I've got some spent cartridges which I've run through a tumbler and then put into the press.

The first station works ok, the primer is decaped. On the next station the primer is loaded but its not completely seated. I had to remove the disc just to remove the brass. I've checked everything but the primer just doesnt want to get seated flush.

It sticks out about 1.3mm. I've tried another cartridge and the same thing happens. The brass I'm using is 9mmP - PMP

The primers are SP - small pistol primers .

I then took one of the spent primers and loaded that - it fit in flush and everything looks good.

I compared the dimensions of the primers are they are almost the same.
New primer: 2.9mm x 4.4mm
Old primer: 3mm x 4.4mm

Any ideas? - I'm racking my brain on this one.

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helotaxi
March 17, 2012, 11:31 AM
Were the factory primers crimped in place? PMP is crimped if I recall. If so, you'll need to remove the crimp to able to seat the new primer with any degree of regularity. Personally, I find 9mm brass far to plentiful to even both with crimped primer brass and just toss it in the recycle bucket. If you don't have a choice but to work with this brass, there are several tools on the market specifically made to remove the primer crimp. Some cut it out, but I prefer those that push the crimp back into the head of the case and don't remove any material. RCBS and Dillon make the two most common tools of this type.

JohnM
March 17, 2012, 11:33 AM
Crimped primer pockets are what I would suspect.

John_Q
March 17, 2012, 11:56 AM
Thanks - you learn something new every day :)

Not sure if they are crimped - I'm checking up on how to identify crimped primers but it doesn't look like its easy to identify.

Can you tell from this pic?

There's also a pic of the old primer.

Mal H
March 17, 2012, 12:07 PM
The odds are very good that you do have crimped primers in those cases. The ammo is PMP (Praetoria Metal Pressings) from South Africa. Most of their military ammo, pistol and rifle, is indeed crimped.

As for the ammo itself, PMP ammo doesn't have a very good reputation. Here is a thread from someone who knew what he was talking about, God rest him:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=20395

rcmodel
March 17, 2012, 12:10 PM
Take a chamfering/deburring tool and lightly ream the mouth of the primer pocket and try it again.

If there is a crimp, the deburring tool will cut it out.

rc

John_Q
March 17, 2012, 12:12 PM
Interesting. Looks like I'll try and find some other ammo. :(

BTW I'm from South Africa.

I'll try the deburring tool also and see what happens.

Mal H
March 17, 2012, 12:14 PM
That explains how you got a supply of it. :)

CMV
March 17, 2012, 12:58 PM
Here are examples of 9mm brass with & without a military crimp. Your picture was small but it didn't really look like it had a crimp, but they can be hard to see in pictures.

It will look like a little "shelf" going around the primer pocket. Sometimes not all the way around or uneven like in this picture.

http://cmv.zftp.com/crimp1.jpg


http://cmv.zftp.com/crimp2.jpg

The case on the right has the crimp. I don't know how you're seating the primers, but I do them in a Lee handheld primer. If I don't remove a crimp, I feel it - kind of feels like it's binding - but with a bit more force they generally seat over the crimp.

This may be a bad practice, but once the primer is started it ends up like what you describe - half in, half out & the primer acts a stop keeping the case locked into the shell holder. Anyway, depending on how hard the primer is, the primer will push the crimp out of the way or else a little of the material on the side of the primer will shave off as it is pushed past the crimp. Either way, it takes much more force to seat these primers and it is much better to deal with them before you try to seat the primer in the first place.

Since you said it was your first time seating a primer, how much force did you use? Someone with a similar setup can tell you what is normal. I was afraid of them at first because I didn't know what to expect or how much force would be necessary. First time I came across a crimp I felt the resistance and just stopped. The case was stuck and I wasn't sure what to do, but the primer had to either go the rest of the way in or else all the way out before I could continue. Since getting it out wasn't possible, all I could do was try more force. I just planned on it detonating but with a firm squeeze, it seated.

John_Q
March 17, 2012, 01:09 PM
The case was stuck and I wasn't sure what to do, but the primer had to either go the rest of the way in or else all the way out before I could continue. Since getting it out wasn't possible, all I could do was try more force. I just planned on it detonating but with a firm squeeze, it seated.

Great pics - I checked mine again and don't see any rings so I don't think they are crimped.

hahaha - I followed your advice and applied a lot more pressure as I also couldn't remove the primers so thought what the hell.... Looks like that worked - they are seated fine now :o

At first I didnt want to/know how much pressure to apply. I had visions of the primer exploding :)


Thanks for all the replies - looks like I'm on my way. 2 done so far :)

Blue68f100
March 17, 2012, 02:27 PM
Primer require a impact to make them go off. I have never had a primer go off seating one, I have crushed some too. Being new to the hobby most are causes of how much force is required. The answer to this is "Enough to seat the primer 0.003-.004" below flush". With some presses this is light, other very heavy.

John_Q
March 17, 2012, 02:30 PM
Great, at least I know I won't set them off :) I guess I was just worried I shouldn't apply too much pressure/

beatledog7
March 17, 2012, 02:37 PM
Primers are designed to be set off by sudden sharp impact, not by steady pressure. Otherwise, we could never seat them.

CMV
March 17, 2012, 08:14 PM
I'm not sure that all will seat .003 - .004 below flush. The concave base Speer 9mm comes to mind - those seem to seat flush & that's it. Unless I'm doing something wrong, those pockets don't seem as deep as others that don't have that 'bowl shape' to them.

helotaxi
March 18, 2012, 08:42 AM
John Q- It doesn't appear that your brass has a primer crimp, however it does appear that it has a very abrupt edge on the primer pocket. That can make seating primers, particularly those on the large size of spec, challenging. You can break that edge with a case mouth chamfer tool or use one of the pocket swage tools to create a radius there. If that PMP brass is the most plentiful option, it might be worth figuring out how to make it easy to work with.

Blue68f100
March 18, 2012, 09:50 AM
CMV, yes you are correct some will not seat below flush. The main thing is to seat them till they stop. The shape of the bottom of the primer pocket controls how deep some will go. But in general most all will be set flush or below depending on mfg brass and primers. If you start getting FTFires your are probably not set deep enough.

John_Q
March 18, 2012, 10:08 AM
hekitaxi - thanks. I'm off to get a chamfer tool for my toolbox on Mon :).

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