[Gray Paccelli]

I just received a beautifully made Howell conversion cylinder for my Uberti 1858 Remington carbine (same action as the New Army Pistol.) It is chambered for .45 ACP.
Even though Howell makes the cylinder, they provide NO powder/bullet load data and say their warranty does not apply to home-loads.

Further, they recommend Black Hills Ammunition as a source for black powder or substitute loads, since they explicitly say not to use regular loads or jacketed ammo.

I contacted Black Hills and they HAVE NO .45 ACP "Cowboy" loads.

Someone needs to step up and take responsibility. It is infuriating to think a manufacturer will brag about "arsenal grade" metal and precision machining and tell nothing about what powder to use with slugs.

I have a 230-grain Lee slug mould that is .452 diameter and a Lee sizer/luber so I can put slugs into the brass at proper diameter, lubed with Alox from the squeeze and melt bottle.

Any help will be appreciated. I love shooting cap-n-ball with the .454 lead balls and eagerly await using the center fire (safe) loads soon.
Thanks.

[JLDickmon]

Is it a .45 ACP cyl, or a .45 AutoRim cyl.?
Black Hills does make a 255 gr lead Auto Rim load at 750 fps.

Should be easy for a handloader to duplicate.
Say, about 4.0 gr of Clays under said 255 SWC

[rcmodel]

Howells website says:
It also comes in .45 ACP, use target loads with lead bullets.

That would be any mid-range match load - IE: a 185 - 200 LSWC at around 750 - 850 FPS.

rc

[JLDickmon]

And I'm further a stupid-head for forgetting that the .45 Auto Rim enables the user to dispense with the full- or half-moon clips...

[Gray Paccelli]

I am new here and initials (abbreviations) may get missed by me.
Again I am looking to put powder (which kind?) into .45 ACP brass and send 230-grain .452 diameter slugs (sized and lubed with Lee Alox from the squeeze bottle) in my Uberti/Remington .44 caliber Carbine modeled on the 1858 New Army pistol frame. The Cylinder is Howell and .45 ACP.
I have 2-kinds of FFFG powder (Triple Seven and American Pioneer Powder) The triple Seven specifically recommends against cartridge lading and Am. Pioneer warns against air space between projectile nd charge.

I also have Blue Dot, 700X and 3130 powder but I am lead to believe these three are not recommended for my Howell cylinder.

Howell says the warranty is void for hand-loading but they give no loading info and refer buyers to Black Hills, which has no Cowboy-loaded .45 ACP.

I find this, frankly, to be stupid and careless. If they are going to brag about arsenal-grade steel, they ought to be able to state a maximum pressure for their product or check with the ammo manufacturer before sending customers on a wild goose chase.

[rcmodel]

You really should buy a reloading manual before you go off reloading!
I suggest the Lyman #49 for your intended loads.

Blue Dot is a slow Magnum class powder and is not suited to the .45 ACP at low pressure as it won't burn clean.

I have never heard of 3130?
But it might be 3031 Rifle powder which cannot be used in any handgun caliber.

Your IMR-700x will work just fine however.
A 4.0 grain starting load will give your 230 lead bullets around 700 FPS, at 10,500 CUP pressure.
That is well within the capability of any revolver to withstand indefinately.

rc

[Gray Paccelli]

Thanks, you are right---3031.
I have been loading .308 and .223 for a while and 12-Gauge longer; but this conversion cylinder and conflicting info about air-space, detonation and not to use in cartridges is aking my head swim.
I will await good data before Ibriskthe Uberti and/or my limbs, eyes or life.

[Gray Paccelli]

What about " air gap"? Some here talk about detonation concerns.
Would I use a filler?

[rcmodel]

No, you would not use a filler with Titegroup.
There is supposed to be an air space.

There is no such thing as detonation with the smokeless powder used in handguns or rifles.

There is such a thing as SEE, or Secondary Explosion Effect in over-bore magnum rifle calibers using reduced loads of slow burning rifle powder.

But that IMO, is not detonation either, it's a bore obstruction.

Black powder loads must not have an air space.
But the .45 ACP has such limited case capacity for black powder you will not be able to get too much of it in the case anyway.
You want to use enough black powder to fill the case and compress it slightly when the bullet is seated.

rc

[Presto]

I think they are limiting the allowed loads not becuase of the material they use in the conversion, but becuase of the unknown material of your gun's frame and barrel. They want to make sure that your soft iron or brass framed gun will be okay.

You could also check into Trail Boss loads. Just a thought.

[Gray Paccelli]

Let me get this straight, RCModel;
Do I understand you to say that is should be okay to load a .45 ACP Brass case with Triple Seven (FFFG) up to the point where my 230-grain lead projectile, sized to .452 and lubed, will slightly compress the powder when I seat and crimp it?

If not Triple Seven, which powder would you recommend?
(This is really sad---that Howell does not provide this info. Really makes me wonder.)
Thank you.

[rcmodel]

I have no idea what Hodgdon says about compressing Triple-7?
It should say something on the can about that, I think.

Real Black powder needs to be compressed.
Whether Triple-7 does or not, I don't know.
It would be my guess it does if it is a black powder substitute.

This is really sad---that Howell does not provide this info.You need to get off that kick.
Howell has no idea what age, manufacture, or condition of 1858 replica someone is going to put their new cylinder in.

They simple can't tell you any or all old Italian replicas ever made in the last 50 years, made from brass, iron, or steel, in unknown condition, with unknown lock timing, is safe with any load.

That is up to you, the new modern cylinder owner, to determine.

They tell you "in .45 ACP, use target loads with lead bullets" and thats all they can tell you without examining your gun themselves.

As a prospective reloader, with a reloading manual, you should be able to figure that out from there.

rc

[Gray Paccelli]

Agreed they don't know the condition of the gun but they should know very well the limitations of THEIR cylinders, which is what blows up as per the recently shown photos here.

Your earlier comment:
"Your IMR-700x will work just fine however.
A 4.0 grain starting load will give your 230 lead bullets around 700 FPS, at 10,500 CUP pressure.
That is well within the capability of any revolver to withstand indefinately."

If the 4.0'grains do not fill the brass, when the 20 grain slug is seated, is that considered to be safe?

Thanks or your patience and coaching. This may be an aggravation, but at least you are not reading about an upstart with one arm and one eye, who went "Ready Fire, Aim"
Cheers

[rcmodel]

If the 4.0'grains do not fill the brass, when the 20 (200) grain slug is seated, is that considered to be safe?Read post # 9 again.

I don't know how else to say it.

rc