Defense Gun....


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Mike-Acer
March 18, 2012, 03:41 PM
Just visited a thread that said a S&W model 13 might be the perfect dresser drawer gun...Hmmm...I recently bought a S&W model 60, 357, stainless...(5 shot)...This J frame with the stock grips fit my hand better than ANY hand gun I have ever owned...There was a comment saying that a 357 has too much penetration...If there were an intruder in my home or where ever that was aggressive and not scared off at the sight of a gun then I want all the power I can get in a small hand gun...Then again I guess there is something to be said for the fire power of, say, a Glock 17...Mike

161228

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sidheshooter
March 18, 2012, 03:59 PM
...This J frame with the stock grips fit my hand better than ANY hand gun I have ever owned...There was a comment saying that a 357 has too much penetration...


The first statement above says a lot; a gun that fits is a good thing.

I am a big fan of the 13/65 series, and have had one in my nightstand fairly regularly over the years. That said, these days I usually just have my 3" 36-1 J handy, since I don't feel like climbing into the safe each night to swap guns around. I admit that I am trading one round for extra convenience.

So far as penetration, the border patrol (among others) figured that one out decades ago: the 110-gr .357 rounds are among the least penetrative handgun rounds you can find that are still worth a darn (IMHO). The WWB version is cheap to practice with (by .357 standards) as well. All evidence I am aware of says that any good SD handgun round will also be pretty hard on walls, so I don't sweat that much.

JMO.

oldfool
March 18, 2012, 04:06 PM
I vote with those who say anything (handgun caliber) best suited to stopping an aggressor in-home when direly needed is highly subject to over penetration issues, wall penetration issues.

It's the flash-bang that is the #1 drawback to the 357 in-house, and in low light.
The good news is that there is no shortage of varied loads in 38Sp and 38+p that can get the job done, and shoot real nice out of those 357 revolvers.

Hi-cap autos have their merits in street fights, but how many determined killers do you really figure to shoot coming down the hallway to your bedroom.


Welcome to THR, Mike

jimniowa
March 18, 2012, 09:43 PM
By the time you fish out your .357 to defend your self and worrying about your neighbor being hit also is insane. #1 defend your self and family if being attacked. #2 shoot to kill or at least stop all progress of the attack. #3 a tricked out (relieable feed system by most component gun smiths) in a .45acp using 200 g jhp bullets at about 900 fps is a #1. A .38 sp shooting 125g jhp or 158 g swcrn will work also, just empty the gun on the perp and reload.
Jim

rcmodel
March 18, 2012, 09:51 PM
A snubby .357 would be about my last choice of firearms for indoor fun & games.

The muzzle blast & flash of a 2" .357 will peel the paint off the bedroom hallway walls, and set the paint flakes on fire!!

If you gotta use that gun, use +P .38 Spl JHP in it.

rc

mes227
March 18, 2012, 11:59 PM
You can address the over penetration issue by loading the revolver with a variety of ammo choices (one has already been suggested), including .38+P, the modern high-expansion .357M SD rounds or the .357M light-loads developed for just this scenario.

PabloJ
March 19, 2012, 12:55 AM
Just visited a thread that said a S&W model 13 might be the perfect dresser drawer gun...Hmmm...I recently bought a S&W model 60, 357, stainless...(5 shot)...This J frame with the stock grips fit my hand better than ANY hand gun I have ever owned...There was a comment saying that a 357 has too much penetration...If there were an intruder in my home or where ever that was aggressive and not scared off at the sight of a gun then I want all the power I can get in a small hand gun...Then again I guess there is something to be said for the fire power of, say, a Glock 17...Mike

161228
Short barrel, low capacity, and no provision to mount tactical light for low light use make that less then ideal HD gun. The ideal wheel gun is Smith & Wesson M&P R8.

PabloJ
March 19, 2012, 12:59 AM
The m60 will make very good ccw belt or hang gun with .38 or .38+P ammo.

788Ham
March 19, 2012, 01:49 AM
rc, I've never heard the .357 flash and blast put quite like that! Especially setting the paint flakes on fire, my gawd man, what powder don't I use? I don't want to use any of what you did! LOL

medic_guns
March 19, 2012, 09:50 AM
I love my 13-2 3" gun, but the 12 gauge shotgun is what I will pick up if something is out to get me or my family.

19-3Ben
March 19, 2012, 10:41 AM
The ideal wheel gun is Smith & Wesson M&P R8.

Perhaps that's the most ideal for you. The OP stated that his j frame points better than any other gun for him. If that's what he feels comfortable with, and what points naturally for him then G-d bless him.

Then again I guess there is something to be said for the fire power of, say, a Glock 17
There is an AWFUL lot to be said about the firepower of modern semi-autos. It's one of the reasons why even though I love wheelguns, my bedstand gun is my M&P9.
That being said, I wouldn't consider myself undergunned if all i had was a revolver. There was a good long while that I used an SP101 on my night stand even though I already owned that M&P9.

Mike-Acer
March 19, 2012, 12:23 PM
Thank all of you for your input....I'm going to do some shooting with the "60" using all the variables and will report back....

Mike-Acer
March 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
A follow up...I have to laugh about the comment RCMODEL made regarding the fire in the hallway...In all seriousness, my wife has shot one of my 38s with very light loads and I have for-warned her about the dramatic difference stepping up the 357...She is going to give it a try and based on how she can handle it we will decide what is best...It may be the 357 in the drawer and 38sp under the mattress...

MichaelB
March 19, 2012, 01:32 PM
The comments on flash and blast indoors are to be taken seriously. Consider the complaints one gets on the firing line with a snubby .357; indoors at night one will be deafened and possibly temporarily blinded. Look for a load at least with low-flash powder.

451 Detonics
March 19, 2012, 03:03 PM
I see nothing wrong with a short barrel revolver for HD. The short barrel means less for a intruder to grab or shove aside, no light means you are not making a target of yourself, 6 rounds should be enough...if not you need to use those six rounds to get to a prepared position with a shotgun in place.

TarDevil
March 19, 2012, 03:25 PM
My friend won't even look at my Ruger SR9c, but keeps asking me to help her learn to shoot my Colt revolver.

There's a place for everything. Lots to do getting an auto into action. Point and click has its place.

eldon519
March 19, 2012, 03:40 PM
Mike, here is a link with a little data regarding .357 penetration on bare ballistic gelatin and clothed gelatin. If memory serves, the FBI recommends 12" minimum with I think around 14 or so being preferred. The 145-gr Winchester Silvertip always seems to do well from short-barreled weapons if the recoil doesn't bother you. The slightly heavier bullets offer a bit less blast than the 110 and 125 loads in my experience.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/357magnum.htm

It sounds like you love your Smith like I love my 3" SP101. There is something satisfying about a little .357 to me.

Salmoneye
March 19, 2012, 05:37 PM
Don't want flash, noise, and over penetration in an HD scenario?

Use a .38 S&W...

19-3Ben
March 19, 2012, 07:26 PM
Lots to do getting an auto into action. Point and click has its place.

The M&P9 that I mentioned above sits on my nightstand in a holster with a round in the chamber.

All I have to do it point that gun (unholstered, obviously) and pull the trigger. No different than a wheelgun. Let's not turn this into an autoloader bashing thread.

TarDevil
March 19, 2012, 07:40 PM
Let's not turn this into an autoloader bashing thread.

Did you get the impression I was going down that path? My auto looks intimidating to her, it has a safety... my revolver doesn't. Why is that bashing?

Sheesh....

19-3Ben
March 19, 2012, 07:52 PM
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you wrote, or jumped the gun.
Apologies all around.

Mike-Acer
March 19, 2012, 09:39 PM
OK, MichaelB ETAL..Tell me about "low flash powder". I can hand load...Mike

Mike-Acer
March 19, 2012, 09:56 PM
You know folks I've been shooting for 54 of my 63 years...To say that makes me just a little aged...I was and am still really into shooting...I know that a 2.125 inch barrel will never develop the velocity or accuracy of, say a 6.5 inch. This little M60 is not intended nor expected to shoot a 1" group at 25 yards. I have never had such a short barreled gun. always thought they were useless...I'm still sure there not for targets but I just kind of fell in love with this small revolver...Mike

slow2run
March 19, 2012, 10:02 PM
Well if its for the walking dead, then any 22 JHP head shot will work, + the ammo is easy found ,in your travels.:)

JFrame
March 20, 2012, 12:00 AM
If you couldn't guess, I am a J-frame fan... ;)

My nightstand guns are usually either a S&W Model 65 (3") or Model 10 (4") K-frame -- loaded with .38 +P hollow points -- but I would feel just as comfortable and well-protected with my Pro-60 (3") J-frame revolver.

My wife's nightstand piece is a S&W 640 (.38-only) J-frame snub -- tuned to an absolutely butter-smooth 7 pounds. And if that was my fall-back piece, I still would not feel terribly handicapped in any HD situation I could reasonably expect.

I think I just like revolvers -- period. :D


.

eldon519
March 20, 2012, 03:25 AM
Mike, I have heard that the WC297 surplus powder that was going around recently at a good price had flash retardant in it. I've got about 16-lbs of it, but I'm still working through my H-110. The WC297 was supposed to be from factory .357 mag and .44 mag rounds and is a little slower than W296/H-110, but close enough for the starting data to be appropriate. I've also heard the new Alliant Power Pro 300-MP was roughly the same things as WC297.

TarDevil
March 20, 2012, 11:36 AM
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you wrote, or jumped the gun.
Apologies all around.
I'm good!

Mike-Acer
March 20, 2012, 12:39 PM
Thank you Eldon...

eldon519
March 20, 2012, 04:35 PM
No problem, I hope it helps, Mike.

Stainz
March 20, 2012, 07:32 PM
I make no apologies for preferring revolvers to self-feeders... especially here in THR's 'Handguns: Revolvers' sub-forum. Today was a great example of why... I let a range friend shoot my 4" 627 Pro - he marvelled at the smooth and light DA trigger. Then - he insisted I shoot his new STI 'Trojan' 9mm. The last time I shot a bottom feeder it was my wife's then new LE PPK/S - nearly a year ago. It was brand new - and had the same feed problem that the Trojan did today. Slap the mag - pull the slide & dump the misfed round. Let it go smartly, feeding another round - and back to shooting. That makes me 0 for 2 in a year. A revolver won't go bang - bad primer - whatever - pull the trigger again. I like dependability in a CCW or a HD firearm. While I have mostly .357 Magnums, I keep them stoked with a proven stopper - the +P 158gr LHPSWC Remington R38S12. YMMV.

My CCW 24/7 is a 642; my HD includes the 642, a 4" 64, and a 2 5/8" PC627 UDR; my wife's HD/cargun is a 2"10, while her CCW is a Seecamp .32. I also have a S&W Governor loaded with .45 ACP ball ammo.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_4546.jpg

My 3" '60 Pro' makes a great house gun, too - loaded with those +P's - shares the same speedloader with the 642.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_4578.jpg

My use of .357 Magnums with .38 ammo is my choice - the selection of available .357 Magnum revolvers is far better than the small list of .38's. YMMV.

Stainz

Confederate
March 20, 2012, 10:06 PM
The S&W 13/65 is the perfect home defense gun. It has all the power to defend one's self against human intruders and, if you're out camping, it will do in a Sasquatch! It has the all the power of a Model 60 (one more round) and it's a much better balanced revolver. Sure, you can do the job with a Model 60, but unless you're going to carry it tucked away in your pajamas, why would you want to?

The .357 magnum is the best manstopping round in revolvers, and some would say it's the best manstopping round in handguns, period. Yes, that includes the big .44 magnum. When one uses a 125gr JHP, the round tends to stay in the body and creates a breathtaking (literally) blow to the miscreant. But in a home setting, you may find it excessive. Where the .357 shines is that it's incredibly versatile. You can use it in the home, while camping or on the road. It works on car tires, pops holes in vehicles and has excellent penetration and expansion. It also works on large animals, small game or people. (If Dennis Weaver had had a S&W 13 in the movie Duel, the movie wouldn't have lasted 90 minutes...though it wouldn't have done much good in Jeeper's Creepers!)

Some say the .357 Sig has as much stopping power as the .357 mag, but even if so, the auto won't take anything equivalent to the .38 Special loads. I'll take the 13, or a Ruger Security- or Speed-Six.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/SW66.jpg

Mike-Acer
March 20, 2012, 10:54 PM
Hello Confederate...thank you for your reply... It has been some time since I've looked hard at the newer models...Your 13 as an example...Is it my imagination or is it very much like the model 19 I had in the 70s...After selling the 19 the new owner blew it up!...By the way I also have a Speed Six in 357...Mike

slow2run
March 22, 2012, 06:43 PM
Do the dealers have, Rhino handguns in stock now?

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