Anti CCW article


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grnzbra
February 13, 2004, 05:14 PM
This appeared yesterday. (http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Feb/02122004/utah/138135.asp)

The following is the letter I sent to the editor:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing in response to the article that appeared in your Feb 12 issue entitled Big guns, big egos may trip concealed weapons carriers. In it, there seems to be an opinion his statement after the incident, "You better watch it. I am armed.", was an effort to show off that he was a tough guy. In fact, the situation was anything but that.

There was some period of time, perhaps only a half second, between when the son spoke and his mamma responded, during which time the customer went from being in a state of awareness of his surroundings through becoming aware of a possible threat to a point where he recognized the threat and was expecting to have to respond as soon as he determined the exact nature of the threat. This is a situation that anyone who has any knowledge of the use of lethal force wants to avoid at all costs. A person familiar with the use of lethal force, he knows that he may end up in jail, or heavily in debt for legal bills and at the losing end of a nasty civil suit after shooting a criminal. He will have to justify his every action, based on instantaneous decisions, to an investigation that will take all the time it needs to second guess those decisions. His body is now in a full blown fight or flight response (which we can tell because of the trouble he had going out the door) and junior and, even worse, mamma thinks the whole thing is hilariously funny. Now he begins to think in terms of what could have been; junior dead him in real trouble.

It seems to me that, given this set of circumstances, his statement was an extremely diplomatic way of saying, "YOU STUPID BROAD! YOUR LITTLE BRAT JUST DID THE EQUIVALENT OF YELLING 'FIRE' IN A CROWDED THEATER. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS AN APPROPRIATE THEME FOR A PRANK, ESPECIALLY IN A STATE THAT ISSUES PERMITS TO CARRY."

After he left, perhaps to sit in his car for half an hour with a case of the shakes because he knew what could have happened, mamma and junior sit there yucking it up until it dawns on them that they junior could have been killed. But in a manner consistent with people unfamiliar with the concept of defending their lives, they believe it couldn't possibly be junior's because he does this all the time. He's so cute. That guy must was a real moron. They should be more careful who they let carry a gun. The fact of the matter is that they both behaved in an incredibly stupid manner and should thank God that the man had the restraint to wait until all the facts were known before taking any action.

The only mistake the customer did make was to say anything at all to her. He should have just left and, perhaps, come back another day to have a calm discussion with her.

C. Lind Aitken

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artherd
February 14, 2004, 02:28 AM
Sounds like they're all real pieces of work.

Andrew Rothman
February 14, 2004, 02:40 AM
I've pasted the original article below.

Just to clarify, young poop-for-brains walks into a convenience store and TELLS THE CLERK, "Hand over your money, lady."

That 24-year-old has been an adult for SIX YEARS!

"Rascal?" Are you kidding me?

Some things, you imbecile, you don't joke about. Someone might think you're serious.

You gotta hope that this fun-loving idiot's next move is joking about bombs at an airport. That would be a really funny! A hoot! Oh, that rascal! :rolleyes:

Mullen: Big guns, big egos may trip concealed weapons carriers

Holly Mullen
Salt Lake Tribune Columnist

Kay Mitchell will tell you her 24-year-old son, Shane, can be a real rascal.
"Everyone knows him around here. My son the stud, the kid with all the lines," says Mitchell, who lives in Highland and works at an American Fork convenience store.
But then Mitchell will raise the matter of context. As on that day last month at the store, when Shane made a quip to his mom and may have come close to taking a bullet for it.
Here is a story she shared with me.
Mitchell was working the counter, waiting on a man. Shane, as he often does, walked in, approached his mom as she counted out change and wisecracked, "Hand over your money, lady."
In her best wry-mom tone, Mitchell said, "Oh, knock it off, Shane."
To which the customer responded: "You better watch it. I am armed."
Mitchell says she laughed. The man didn't.

"I asked him if he was a police officer. The American Fork police station is kitty-corner from the store and we know all the cops. But they wear their weapons where you can see them. So then I asked if he was a concealed weapon permit holder and he reluctantly said, 'Yes.' Then he left."
Mother and son shared a good chuckle, and then a bit of a chill. "We were flabbergasted at his audacity and his anxious attitude to let us know he was packing heat. We pretty quickly realized it could have gotten out of hand. This was a joke, but what if that guy had suddenly decided to defend me by shooting my son?
"I've had guns over my life," Mitchell says. "I support people's right to carry a gun, except in church and school. But come on. Permit holders need to ask themselves the hard questions. Is this really about deterring criminals or just about a big gun? How much is this about satisfying their egos?"
I knew if I blurted out my opinion, every arms-bearer from Hyrum to Hurricane would come at me, guns blazing. So I went to an expert.
Clark Aposhian is the chairman of the Utah Self-Defense Instructors Network (USDIN) and a point man for the Utah Shooting Sports Council, the state affiliate of the National Rifle Association.
"Not being there, I can't judge for sure, but we absolutely run through these scenarios in our classes," Aposhian says. Conceal-and-carry instructors with the USDIN teach nearly 75 percent of state-mandated classes, he says. There are approximately 57,000 permit holders in Utah.
"If that young man intimated he had a weapon and was using force, threat of force or fear, that customer might have been justified in using his weapon.
"But just because [the customer] might be justified in using force, I don't recommend it. I recommend retreat, often."
Aposhian knows cowboys like Mr. C-Store do little to help his cause. Guys like this one really bug him.
"A reasonable man would have figured this scenario out pretty quickly. . . . I'm not an apologist for people who break the law when they know the law, just to show off."
It is a Class C misdemeanor to improperly threaten use of a weapon.
Exiting the store, the customer in question hit his head on the hydraulic device that operates the door, Mitchell says.
"He got all mad and embarrassed and started blaming me for it. Told me they made the doorway 'too damn short.' "
Check. It's the the door's fault.
Go get 'em, Tiger.
hmullen@sltrib.com

TheOtherOne
February 14, 2004, 09:55 AM
If it was really obvious that her son was just joking around, I can actually understand her point. You can usual tell when someone isn't an actual threat.

Of course, who knows how it sounded to the guy. In my opinion, once he knew it wasn't a real threat, he should of just kept his mouth shut. To the average person, what he did does make CCW holders look bad.

MikeB
February 14, 2004, 10:00 AM
I'm sure we're only hearing the mothers side of the argument here, we don't really know what the permit holder said or how it was said. We also don't know if this sounded like a joke or not at first.

I predict this 24 year old may just be a future winner of the Darwin Awards.

Zach S
February 14, 2004, 02:07 PM
We also dont know if he was a permit holder, or someone with a big mouth who was trying to cover his ???. Think about it, he just said he was armed, why would he say "no" if he didnt have a permit to CC.

PPL ask me if my Caprice is an old cop car all the time. I say yes, but havent showed anyone the 9C1 code on service decal in the trunk. How would they know if I was full of it?

SAG0282
February 14, 2004, 02:25 PM
Well, to be perfectly honest, I didn't really get an anti-CCW tone from that article. She sought out quotes and advice from pro-gun persons, and included a quote from the mom that supported people's right to carry. She didn't find someone from the Brady campaign to castigate gun carriers either.


Face it, people do stupid things with guns sometimes, and if we're going to preach "fair and balanced" in our attack on the liberal media, we should be prepared for the media to cover some of the bad stuff as well. The permit holder in this case does a disservice to the rest of us, and if others read the example and avoid similar behavior, then that might be beneficial.

org
February 14, 2004, 02:48 PM
If the man was as shaken as the article led us to believe, he obviously had been convinced that junior was a BG, and had come close to acting on that conviction. I'd guess there was much more to this than narrated to the reporter. Possibly Heckle and Jeckyl carried the "joke" on until he told them he was armed, then dropped it.

Based on what was presented by the reporter it's hard to tell, except that it's not a stretch to think the two jokers report was slanted to make themselves look blameless and the CCW guy a buffoon.

I think if I was in the same situation, reached the same conclusion, then found it was "all a joke" I'd be a bit shaken too.

It's a pretty safe bet that if there really had been a holdup attempt and it was stopped by a CCW holder, nowhere near as much print would have been devoted to the story.

HBK
February 14, 2004, 02:54 PM
Definately a future Darwin award winner.

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