How loud are high velocity .22lr?


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Marlin60Man
March 19, 2012, 12:00 AM
Is there anyone knows the decibel levels of high velocity .22lr rounds out of a rifle barrel? I'm wondering if I should start wearing hearing protection?

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gathert
March 19, 2012, 12:03 AM
You should always wear hearing protection. Its the repeated exposure to the shots that gets your hearing damaged. One or two you will be fine from a .22, but once the calibers get bigger your hearing can be damaged on the first shot.

rcmodel
March 19, 2012, 12:04 AM
I don't know how loud in decibels.

But YES YOU SHOULD wear hearing protection!!

WHAT DID YOU SAY??

STOP SCREAMING AT YOU?
STOP SCREWING WITH YOU?
START HOPPING ON YOU?

WHAT?

rc

allaroundhunter
March 19, 2012, 12:06 AM
The only times that I do not use hearing pro is when I am out on the farm and have to shoot a snake, wild dog, or something else and don't have time to put it in.

Even when I shoot my .22's I use ear plugs or muffs (using High Velocity or Stingers)

Marlin60Man
March 19, 2012, 12:08 AM
All right, I was told by someone recently that .22s were not loud enough even with sustained shots, but saw an article in hearing-loss magazine that had a table of various rounds and I think it said? .22. were 90-100 dB and I know that is too high to be sustained...

bigfatdave
March 19, 2012, 12:12 AM
Is there anyone knows the decibel levels of high velocity .22lr rounds out of a rifle barrel? varies with barrel length and exact load
I'm wondering if I should start wearing hearing protection? you should have never done that without hearing protection
I was told by someone recently that .22s were not loud enough even with sustained shotsdon't even listen to that person again.
did they SHOUT it to you because they were going deaf for "some reason"?

...

Seriously, you're damaging your hearing with every impulse from every shot, at least get some plugs, plugs and muffs are better for extended sessions.
I'm an industrial worker in a high-noise field, I know what I'm talking about and anything but the poofter CB loads is plenty to cause permanent hearing damage.

allaroundhunter
March 19, 2012, 12:14 AM
All right, I was told by someone recently that .22s were not loud enough even with sustained shots

......you know the thread about the biggest lie a gun dealer has ever told you?......yea.....

Marlin60Man
March 19, 2012, 12:24 AM
Not to offend anyone, but I was really interested in finding an actual dB level, anyone know where to find it?

I was a machinist and am already deaf in my left ear, so I kinda had a whim to check for sure when I got to playing with a dB meter app on my cell phone. Haven't had a chance to use it, nor do I trust its accuracy...

I guess better safe than sorry though :D

kozak6
March 19, 2012, 12:26 AM
A quick google suggests that a .22 lr rifle is around 145 dB, although this will vary somewhat depending on load and barrel length.

At any rate, it's enough to cause hearing damage.

Much like with anything else, you are ultimately better off using protection even though it can get in the way.

Marlin60Man
March 19, 2012, 12:36 AM
Yeah, for sure. I couldn't find much but a video suggesting they were 84 dB and that didn't seem right to me.

I really need to invest in a good pair of shooting glasses too. I try to use the over-the-glasses ones, but sometimes they just get so foggy I get frustrated and take them off. :/

Anyway, yikes, 145 is way higher than I thought.

Mal H
March 19, 2012, 12:53 AM
As several have said, that "someone" is flat out wrong - period

A .22LR is considerably louder than 85 to 100 dB. That level can be reached in a crowded restaurant. It's more in the 140 to 155 dB range.

See Zak Smith's post #9 here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=642083

joe normal
March 19, 2012, 01:01 AM
The hard part is having measurement equipment that is 'fast' enough to capture that initial transient impulse. I work with high end pro audio, and would be worried about reference Mic diaphragm damage with anything more than a .22 at close range.

Plugs and muffs are your friends.

bigfatdave
March 19, 2012, 03:08 AM
I really need to invest in a good pair of shooting glasses too.Get a good set of prescription shooting glasses with flat earpieces, so they don't interfere with muffs.

It will cost less than you fear and be totally worth it.

Shawnpatrick
March 19, 2012, 07:04 PM
Remington subsonic from a 10/22 is 140.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SaI_IJk204

22-rimfire
March 19, 2012, 08:26 PM
Trust me. Shooting 22LR's from a rifle can cause deteriation of your hearing. You can get by for a while, but you WILL suffer loss of hearing, usually at the high frequency end of the sound range. It is simply NOT worth the risk. Wear at least ear plugs which is what I do when shooting 22 rifles unless I'm at the range. In which case, I wear ear muffs.

Furncliff
March 19, 2012, 08:48 PM
Gunfire Sound Levels

Gunfire Noise Level Reference Chart
Below we have listed critical data describing peak sound pressure levels produced by firearms used in shooting and hunting sports. A serious byproduct of this exposure is sensory-neural hearing loss, which cannot be restored to normal. With the introduction of MUZZLE BRAKES and PORTING, the risks of hearing loss dramatically increase. Use this chart as a reference guide for promoting the need of using adequate hearing protection.

Notations
Keep in mind that conversational speech is approximately 60-65 dB, and the threshold of pain is considered to be 140 dB. According to Dr. William Clark, Ph.D. senior research scientist in charge of the NOISE LABORATORY at the Central Institute for the Deaf in St. Louis, the damage caused by one shot from a .357 magnum pistol, which can expose a shooter to 165 dB for 2msec, is equivalent to over 40 hours in a noisy workplace. Dr. Krammer, Ph.D., Ball State University, Muncie, Indiana has documented the following pressure levels.

Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)

.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
26" barrel 150.25dB
18 _" barrel 156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB
22" barrel 154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 _" barrel 161.50dB


Dr. Krammer continues to say that shotgun noise averaged slightly more that 150dB. This is approximately 14dB beyond the threshold of pain, and more than sufficient to cause sudden hearing loss with complications.

Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA

.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 _" barrel 163.2dB
.375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB
Krammer adds that sound pressure levels for the various pistols and ammunition tested yielded an average mean of 157.5 dB, which is greater than those previously shown for shotgun and rifle noise levels. There was also a greater range, from 152.4dB to 164.5dB, representing 12 dB difference, or more than 10 time as much acoustic energy for the top end of the pistol spectrum. It should be noticed that this figure of 164.5 dB approaches the practical limit of impulse noise measurement capability inherent in most modern sound level meters.

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA

.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB
The above averages are for all types of ammunition used in these firearms, and should be considered fairly representative. No wonder we hear numerous reports about hearing loss as a result of firearms including acoustic traumas that take hearing completely as a result of one shot. Imagine what the noise levels must be when we incorporate muzzle brakes or porting into firearms, or have a gun explode near the ear due to malfunction.

OUR WARNING IS SIMPLE AND IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF EACH SHOOTER. AS THE SOUND PRESSURES INCREASE, SO DOES THE RISK OF PERMANENT HEARING LOSS. IF YOU INCORPORATE A PROCEDURE INTO YOUR SHOOTING THAT INCREASES THE SOUND LEVEL, YOU ALSO INCREASE THE RISK OF HEARING LOSS TO YOURSELF AND POSSIBLY THOSE WHO STAND NEAR YOU. BE SURE TO USE ADEQUATE EAR PROTECTION WHEN USING A FIREARM AND BE CAREFUL OF THOSE NEARBY. LAWSUITS HAVE ALREADY BEEN RECOGNIZED FOR GUNFIRE NOISE THAT HAS RESULTED IN HEARING LOSS. ALWAYS CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL AUDIOLOGIST, OTOLOGIST, OR OTOLARYNGOLOGIST WITH YOUR HEARING PROBLEMS. Hearing loss is not fun and can be prevented.

Compliments of www.earinc.com



\Note: Rim fire rounds were not mentioned. But in other articles I've seen the figure 140db mentioned. That may be true, but it's also true that a target type ammo shot from a long barrel rifle like the CZ 452 Ultra Lux and the Brno#4 is going to be a lot lower.

Personal note: I had a job flying light airplanes many years ago. The hearing loss didn'y show up until 2o years later. I'm O.K. with the hearing aids I have. But the tinitus that often accompanies hearing loss is a mind bender.

Stay safe.

Tom

Onward Allusion
March 19, 2012, 08:53 PM
Marlin60Man
How loud are high velocity .22lr?
Is there anyone knows the decibel levels of high velocity .22lr rounds out of a rifle barrel? I'm wondering if I should start wearing hearing protection?


ALWAYS wear hearing protection. Over time, even the lowly 22LR will damage your hearing when fired outdoors. I have mild tinnitus and I hear ringing in my ears when it is quiet.

CraigC
March 20, 2012, 09:47 AM
As I pause for a moment to enjoy the ringing in my ears......

YES, ALWAYS WEAR HEARING PROTECTION!!!!!

Save what hearing you have left. Don't be a dummy, like I was. These days, .22 CB's are the only thing I shoot where I don't use hearing protection.

brickeyee
March 20, 2012, 11:02 AM
Is there anyone knows the decibel levels of high velocity .22lr rounds out of a rifle barrel? I'm wondering if I should start wearing hearing protection?

WHAT???

Loud enough to damage your hearing.

robert garner
March 20, 2012, 11:47 AM
Take it from an older guy that never wore hearing protection (until shooting on indoor ranges in ROTC) even then we didn't wear them outdoors.
Your hearing loss won't be noticeable,or even bothersome, till your w..."significant other"
gets tired of your "What did they say?"...during the movie.
It's the constant ringing even or maybe especially when your trying to sleep.
I won't go into the voices here,
robert

Marlin60Man
March 20, 2012, 12:54 PM
What is the difference between the shooting muffs and ear plugs?

Also, I hear they have noise-canceling ones or something like that where they still allow you to hear when a shot isn't going off. Do you guys know anything about these?

cavman
March 20, 2012, 01:08 PM
I double up with both muff and plugs.

I wear Howard Leight electronic muffs. They are about 50 bucks. I went with a friend and he bought some Winchester electronic muffs from Walmart for about 25. Mine are betterbut his are okay too. I love them. Wear plugs and muffs over. The muffs can be turned on and you can hear a whisper even through the plugs. If there is a shot the electronics are turned off and then all you hear is the double dampening from the muffs and plugs.

Then back to being able to hear voices clearly again. This all happens automatically

Turn off the muffs when not needed to save the batteries

roadchoad
March 20, 2012, 01:09 PM
Even a .22 short will ring your ears from a revolver. Don't risk it, just wear muffs or plugs.

I like plugs, because I used to wear them while riding dualsports, and I can also use them when the wife is snoring...:D

BCRider
March 20, 2012, 01:15 PM
Well... muffs are like old style large headphones. Plugs are little things you stuff directly into the ear canal.

The electronic ones don't cancel the noise. Instead they have an outside microphone and inside speaker. For normal sound levels they pick up and amplify the outside audio to the speaker in the ear cup. When they detect a sudden strong sound they only amplify the signal up to a set point then clip it off at a safe level. Once the high level sound is gone they open the pathway back up.

That's a nasty way to describe it but it's about all I can think of to describe an audio amplifier which has a strong Automatic Gain Control built into it.

There are noise cancelling headphones which you can find that allow you to listen to music or speech in noisy environments. But that's not the type of mechanism that is used for shooting muffs. The actual noise cancelling systems work by mimicing the outside sound energy in reverse so your ear hears less of the surrounding noise. This only works for noise of up to a reasonably low level. For something like gun shots the system doesn't work fast enough or well enough. So instead we have AGC electronic sets for shooting.

stl_303
March 20, 2012, 01:33 PM
Muffs AND plugs for me.

I'm 39 years old, and have about 35% hearing loss and permanent, acute debilitating tinnitus in both ears. No matter where I go or what I'm doing, the tinnitus is the loudest thing in the room.

There are days where I seriously would want my inner ears surgically removed just so I could for once have real silence.

When trying to determine why I have such pronounced hearing loss and tinnitus at my age, the audiologist asked me what I did for a living, hobbies. etc.

1) motorcycle riding
2) shooting (competitively as a youth)

his response was "you just named the 2 most dangerous and common things for hearing damage there is"

The thing is, that hearing loss is cumulative and permanent... and you usually don't notice it until it's too late.

This tinnitus and hearing loss I started "experiencing" around age 30? yeah.. that was already set into motion when I was a teenager shooting rimfire matches every weekend... and in my 20's riding motorcycles for days on end. (note: it's the WIND that gets you, not the exhaust).

I wear ear plugs all the time now.. bars, concerts, mowing the lawn, tuning the car... sleeping with my snoring wife, you name it.
the kicker is that having to wear ear plugs for the wife's snoring cancels out the "white noise" of any of those tinnitus-masking devices that would help me sleep.

so now I'm in a permanent state of sleep deprivation ta boot!

Onward Allusion
March 20, 2012, 01:55 PM
Marlin60Man
What is the difference between the shooting muffs and ear plugs?

Also, I hear they have noise-canceling ones or something like that where they still allow you to hear when a shot isn't going off. Do you guys know anything about these?


Electronic muffs are great. They don't cancel noise (by creating a mirror of the sound wave). Electronic muffs work by using a mic that shuts off at a certain decibel.

CraigC
March 20, 2012, 01:59 PM
I'm 39 years old, and have about 35% hearing loss and permanent, acute debilitating tinnitus in both ears. No matter where I go or what I'm doing, the tinnitus is the loudest thing in the room.
I hope everyone reads and heeds the post above.

And a big 10-4 on the wind noise riding motorcycles. Not the exhaust.

1911Tuner
March 20, 2012, 02:05 PM
The supersonic crack of the bullet is probably louder than the report of the rifle.

But...yes. A lot of shooting with a .22 rifle can damage your hearing. Foam ear plugs are adequate for a .22 rifle or pistol, but not for the higher calibers. Concussion can affect the small inner ear bones and result in hearing loss, too...even though your ears don't get "rung" with the shot. For the low number of rounds fired while hunting, ear plugs are fine.

brickeyee
March 20, 2012, 02:13 PM
Foam ear plugs are adequate for a .22 rifle or pistol, but not for the higher calibers.

Foam ear plugs remain the highest protection you can get, barely matched by a few muffs in the past few years.

The whole hearing industry has yet to figure out a way to reliably rank impulsive noise.

The rise time of the impulse is so fast, it completely swamps normal audio measuring equipment.
The peak value is then not measured correctly.

Marlin60Man
March 20, 2012, 05:58 PM
I think I am going to get some of those electronic muffs. I like to be able to hear what is going on around me. I do wonder if they will effect how my hold on the rifle, maybe rub up against the butt...

I hope I haven't done too much damage already. Been out shooting for a few hours at a time more than a handful of times the last couple of months...

One thing about those plugs for me is that they pretty much cut out all sound for me, since I am already totally deaf in one ear. I think the electronic muffs would be nicer.

1911Tuner
March 20, 2012, 07:32 PM
Foam ear plugs remain the highest protection you can get, barely matched by a few muffs in the past few years.

If that were true, I wouldn't be just shy of functionally deaf. Until about 10 years go, all I used was foam plugs...and an ear specialist advised me to use good muffs in order to dampen the shock waves that were spankin' the small bones in my head.

Moose1995
March 20, 2012, 11:00 PM
I use the foam plugs in the machine shop where I work, and the same plugs for shooting. They seem to be plenty sufficient. The noise and impulse from my 45 is much much less then a 22lr without the plugs. That being said, to the OP, I noticed the CCI stingers out of my short barreled ruger sr22 were nearly as loud as the guy in the stall next to me shooting a 9mm. The lesser velocity mini mags weren't nearly as loud.

Stevie-Ray
March 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
I double up with both muff and plugs. So do I, and that includes even shooting JUST .22LR. Permanent Tinnitus and hearing loss is no fun, take it from somebody that has known for many years now.

22-rimfire
March 21, 2012, 09:22 PM
I shot my Ruger SR22 without ear protection today (one shot) and I my ears were ringing. Wear ear plugs or simply ear protection.

Furncliff
March 21, 2012, 10:45 PM
Hearing protection does not have to be expensive. The foam ear plugs are cheap (not my favorite). Midway has a wide choice and the Midway brand Muffs are only 20 bucks. I have a pair and they are the best muff I've ever used. They are large so there's a good chance they may get in the way for rifle shooters. But there are some low profile ones that work well in this case. I also bought a pair of Caldwell E-MAX Electronic Earmuffs (NRR 25dB) when they were on sale (under $20). I was skeptical that an inexpensive product would work very well. But they do the job quite well and they are low profile so they will not get in the way of the rifle stock.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/524517/midwayusa-ultimate-10-earmuffs-by-peltor-nrr-30db-black

josiewales
March 22, 2012, 06:14 PM
So you should wear hearing protection for .22 short sub-sonic?

BoilerUP
March 22, 2012, 06:25 PM
Hearing loss runs in my family on my father's side.

I wear plugs for all shooting and using power equipment (mowers, trimmers, air compressors, etc). I typically only use muffs with handguns.

When BATFE approves my suppressor, I hope to shoot a rimfire rifle without hearing protection, but we'll see.

CZguy
March 22, 2012, 06:40 PM
So you should wear hearing protection for .22 short sub-sonic?

Yes, you should.

gathert
March 22, 2012, 08:07 PM
So you should wear hearing protection for .22 short sub-sonic?

Those loads out of my .22 rifle are suppressor quiet, which is low enough to be acceptable without hearing protection. Its about as loud as a pellet gun, and nobody wears hearing protection with those. Anything more than the little Super Colibri 20g rounds I wear hearing protection. But then again, I only use those for back yard plinking instead of at a shooting range where I would be wearing protection anyway.

bigfatdave
March 23, 2012, 08:39 AM
So you should wear hearing protection for .22 short sub-sonic? "sub sonic" is a pretty broad category, in most cases, yes, they can cause hearing damage.

Even a CCI CB short from a carbine (16.5" barrel) indoors is pretty loud, outdoors it would be right on the edge of needing hearing protection. From a revolver, even outdoors they call for earplugs.

I think there's a misconception on the nature and consequences of hearing damage going on here ... any damage is cumulative, permanent, and irreversible - be conservative in choosing when to skip the plugs, and consult a doctor or industrial hygiene expert that specializes in hearing loss/damage.

bhk
March 23, 2012, 08:48 AM
CCI rates their new long rifle Quiets (40 grains at 710 fps) at 68 dbs at the shooters ears from rifles and indicates they are safe to shoot out of rifles without wearing hearing protection. This sounds pretty safe to me. They are very slightly louder than CCI CBs out of my rifles. I do not wear hearing protection when shooting either out of rifles outdoors, but do wear protection when shooting them out of handguns.

With all the liability concerning health issues these days, I bet CCI was very careful with their measurements and recommendations.

bigfatdave
March 23, 2012, 10:18 AM
Regarding CCI "Quiets"
I haven't found any in the wild to test out yet, but they advertise about the same velocity as a CB short/long with a heavier bullet, so there's a bit more energy going on and a higher chamber/barrel pressure. As I said, CB shorts are marginal for neeing plugs, I wouldn't shoot the "Quiet" round from CCI in high volume without plugs, but wouldn't worry about popping small game or varmints a few rounds a day ... from a rifle with a closed action after testing it out.
CCI can claim whatever their lawyers say they can, but extended/repeated exposure is still not wise.

Seriously, is it that hard to buy a jar of foamies and keep them with the range stuff?

bhk
March 23, 2012, 11:05 AM
Regarding CCI "Quiets"
I haven't found any in the wild to test out yet, but they advertise about the same velocity as a CB short/long with a heavier bullet, so there's a bit more energy going on and a higher chamber/barrel pressure. As I said, CB shorts are marginal for neeing plugs, I wouldn't shoot the "Quiet" round from CCI in high volume without plugs, but wouldn't worry about popping small game or varmints a few rounds a day ... from a rifle with a closed action after testing it out.
CCI can claim whatever their lawyers say they can, but extended/repeated exposure is still not wise.

Seriously, is it that hard to buy a jar of foamies and keep them with the range stuff?
Not hard to use ear protection and I use it when shooting almost all guns, when chainsawing, leaf blowing, weedeating, etc. But, I also feel very comfortable going out on my deck and shooting my air rifles, CBs, and Quiets without ear protection. The shooting experience is greatly enhanced because I can hear others talking, the birds chirp, and the squirrel/deer walking in the nearby woods. The DB rating charts show that the Quiets are quieter than normal radio volume and average street noise. Honestly, the noise the bullet makes hitting the trap is louder than the report of the rifle.

BTW, I always where protection at a range with other folks present, regardless of what I happen to be shooting. I am in my mid 60s and my hearing tests very well, thank you. This is after shooting a LOT for over 50 years. I keep my tv turned down much lower than other folks way younger than me and pick up woodland sounds MUCH better than almost anyone I know of any age. I am sure that using protection, when appropriate, has helped with this. But I am not going to go overboard.

I am going to drive my truck to town in a few minutes to pick up some supplies. Perhaps I should wear a helmet and maybe even my ear muffs because of the 70 db average street noise. Or maybe I won't because on my drive to town (3.5 miles) I may not even see another vehicle.

Don't get me wrong, WEAR HEARING PROTECTION WHEN DOING ANY ACTIVITY LOUD ENOUGH TO DAMAGE YOUR EARS.

brickeyee
March 23, 2012, 12:47 PM
If that were true, I wouldn't be just shy of functionally deaf.

Many guns produce such a high level that there is NOTHING that can provide adequate long term protection form repeated gunfire.

The entire audiology field has yet to figure out how to even accurate measure impulsive noise at very high amplitude (like gunfire).

Even the ratings for plugs and muffs still contain notes about impulsive noise.

The vast majority of equipment used for measuring noise energy does not have enough bandwidth to even come close to providing accurate values for impulsive noise.

It is VERY hard to measure repeatable and reliably.

MX26
March 25, 2012, 07:50 PM
Not to offend anyone, but I was really interested in finding an actual dB level, anyone know where to find it?

I was a machinist and am already deaf in my left ear, so I kinda had a whim to check for sure when I got to playing with a dB meter app on my cell phone. Haven't had a chance to use it, nor do I trust its accuracy...

I guess better safe than sorry though :D
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

Double Naught Spy
March 26, 2012, 12:45 AM
Just as a related aside, there is likely going to be a difference in dbs from the muzzle to the position of the shooter behind the rifle. There is a bit of shadow effect. So the quietest place to be when a rifle is being fired is behind the rifle. Many folks probably won't notice the difference and the difference on quieter ammo between the muzzle and behind the right isn't a lot. When shooting a much larger and more noisy caliber such as the .50 BMG, there is really a dramatic difference from being directly behind the rifle to being a few feet lateral to the rifle.

kd7nqb
March 26, 2012, 01:50 AM
don't know but I will take my DB meter to the range this week and give a short report on a few different loads and calibers for comparison. Maybe the same ammo out of a few different guns.

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