Is anyone coming out with an AK-47 in 300 Blackout


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87Theworld
March 19, 2012, 09:29 PM
I know AR are being produced in 300 blackout, but I saw AAC with an custom AK-47 they made to take the 300 round. Im going to get the AR but would also like an AK and common ammo is a plus since I currently own neither. Has anyone heard anything about these aks being produced in the future?

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Buck Kramer
March 19, 2012, 09:58 PM
Haven't heard of one being built. It would be a lot harder to re-barrel an AK than it would an AR. It's not that it cannot be done, you just don't see too many people interested in it.

TurtlePhish
March 19, 2012, 09:59 PM
Yeah, lotta work and limited market... If it became worth it, then I'm sure it would get done. But aside from custom work, probably not.

animator
March 19, 2012, 10:14 PM
Haven't heard of one being built. It would be a lot harder to re-barrel an AK than it would an AR. It's not that it cannot be done, you just don't see too many people interested in it.
Maybe... I agree that changing out an AR barrel only requires a wrench and a vise, but changing out an AK barrel isn't too complicated of a process either for someone that's done it a time or two.


If I had a .223 AK, I'd consider pulling the barrel and swapping in a 300 just to see what happens. Might make for a cool project.

weeniewawa
March 19, 2012, 10:17 PM
why?

it is basically a copy of the 7.62 x 39 round anyway

armarsh
March 19, 2012, 10:19 PM
^^ This. And I'm a fan of the 300 BLK.

TurtlePhish
March 19, 2012, 10:19 PM
it is basically a copy of the 7.62 x 39 round anyway


Totally forgot to mention that. Yeah, .300BLK in an AK wouldn't drastically change anything. It'd make it a lot more expensive to shoot.

Telekinesis
March 19, 2012, 10:22 PM
I don't think there's much of a market for an AK in 300 Blackout. The whole point of 300 Blk was to make a subsonic round that would essentially mirror the ballistics of a subsonic 7.62x39, but still work well out of an AR platform. Honestly I see no reason to make an AK in 300 Blk when you already have a well tested and reliable gun which is a near copy ballistically to the 7.62x39, but with cheaper mags and ammo.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 19, 2012, 10:33 PM
why?

it is basically a copy of the 7.62 x 39 round anyway

That's what I was wondering as well. Not to mention the mags would be harder to find and ammo would be even harder to find and much more expensive then if it was just 7.62 x 39.

Z-Michigan
March 19, 2012, 10:49 PM
The whole point of 300 Blk was to make a subsonic round that would essentially mirror the ballistics of a subsonic 7.62x39, but still work well out of an AR platform. Honestly I see no reason to make an AK in 300 Blk when you already have a well tested and reliable gun which is a near copy ballistically to the 7.62x39, but with cheaper mags and ammo.

+1000

And I too am a fan of 300BLK.

Buck Kramer
March 19, 2012, 10:55 PM
but changing out an AK barrel isn't too complicated of a process either for someone that's done it a time or two.

I know, I've built 3 of them. What I'm saying is that using a 20 ton press and a bottle jack, headspacing, and then re-drilling in the new pin is a little more complicated than buying a $20 barrel nut wrench.

Jason_G
March 19, 2012, 11:04 PM
Add to what's been said the fact that AKs, AFAIK, are not usually suppressed very effectively, and the whole thing starts to lose its allure very quickly.

Jason

87Theworld
March 20, 2012, 12:21 AM
I just wanted a common round of 300 blackout between the AK and AR instead of 7.62x39. Seeing as reloading a subsonic 7.62x39 is useless for an semi ak. The reason for the 300blk in the first place. I reload so ammo price isn't to much of an issue. It would also be nice to also be able to use the same suppressor.

Owen Sparks
March 20, 2012, 12:45 AM
I hope not.

Hizzie
March 20, 2012, 04:00 AM
John Hollister had an Arsenal SLR-106UR converted to 300 Blackout, SBR'd and runs it suppressed. Work was completed by Troy of In Range.

Girodin
March 20, 2012, 04:07 AM
I am with those that simply do not understand the appeal of the 300 blk out in an AK. As stated by ACC at http://300aacblackout.com/ :

Introducing the Advanced Armament Corp. 300 AAC Blackout (300BLK). This system was developed to launch 30 caliber projectiles from the AR platform without a reduction in magazine capacity and compatible with the standard bolt.

Full power 115-125 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK, a

Basically the whole point of the caliber is to get x39 ballistics out of an AR

Again according to ACC:

DESIGN OBJECTIVES
• Create a reliable compact 30-cal solution for the AR platform
• Utilize existing inventory magazines while retaining their full capacity
• Create the optimal platform for sound and flash suppressed fire
• Create compatible supersonic ammo that matches 7.62x39 ballistics
• Provide the ability to penetrate barriers with high-mass projectiles
• Provide all capabilities in a lightweight, durable, low recoiling package

The blackout is a 7.62x39 that actually works in the AR platform. There is not need for that in the AK as the x39 works.

As to prefering the blackout for sub sonic shooting. There is more of a case for it. However, I still would not be getting an AK for it.

Seeing as reloading a subsonic 7.62x39 is useless for an semi ak.

One can load sub sonics that will cycle the action.

The real issue is that the AK just isn't that great of a suppressor host if you are interested in something really quite. This will be true no matter what round its shooting.

All in all I just see an AK in 300 BLK as something that makes much sense at all. Now the 6.5 grendel rumors that were swirling a few months back. . .

R.W.Dale
March 20, 2012, 05:01 AM
300 blk for an AK only has downsides.

Appx 150 to 200 fps slower with any given bullet weight.

No $4.99 a box ammo

No $10 magazines

What were the benifets again.

posted via mobile device.

Flashcube
March 20, 2012, 01:02 PM
Not that I have any interest, but it would be a .30 caliber AK I could actually own as 7.62x39 AKs are banned here in CT. The mag/ammo availability issues would kind of ruin it in the long run though. :scrutiny:

Collector0311
March 20, 2012, 01:11 PM
I'd be interested to know where you all think the .300blk will go from here. I've been out of country for a while and when I'm home I'm out on a base in the communist state of California. Any opinions on whether it will take off and drop ammo prices with an increase in manufacturers, or will it wither and die like so many other "new" calibers of late?

Kachok
March 20, 2012, 01:16 PM
The 300 has no real world advantage over the 7.62x39 so I highly doubt there will be one marketed to the genral public. 7.62x39 ammo is cheap and everywhere, 300 Blackout is expensive and rare, seems to be a no brainer to me with an AK platform.

henschman
March 20, 2012, 02:48 PM
The only advantage, if you want to call it that, that the .300 blackout has over 7.62x39 is that it has a straight walled case. This is usually a disadvantage in a rifle cartridge, but in this case it allows it to use straighter mags than the 7.62x39, so it will actually feed reliably into the non-optimal straight mag well of the AR-15. If you want the same performance out of an AK, just hand load 7.62x39.

mberoose
March 20, 2012, 02:50 PM
Everyone keeps saying "...and I'm a fan of 300 blackout."

Well, I don't give half a hootenanny about 300 blackout, but here in CT where 7.62 AKs are a no-no, I suppose it would be a clever workaround if you absolutely refused to just buy a VZ58.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 20, 2012, 03:06 PM
Can't you guys from CT get a Saiga and convert it? How do they define an AK in the law books?

mberoose
March 20, 2012, 03:14 PM
Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure the CT ban list just specifies "Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type"...and from my understanding from talking to multiple long-time gunnies and gun store owners locally in person and on CT gun forums, it's pretty much a blanket statement covering any and all variants of 7.62x39 AKs, even if its a Saiga. VZ58s, however, are fine seeing as though they're only similar to AK47s in appearance, and AK74s are allowed, since they're obviously in a different caliber.

courtgreene
March 20, 2012, 04:11 PM
that just seems silly to me.

TurtlePhish
March 20, 2012, 04:46 PM
Yeah, CT is kinda dumb like that.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 20, 2012, 10:07 PM
Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure the CT ban list just specifies "Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type"...and from my understanding from talking to multiple long-time gunnies and gun store owners locally in person and on CT gun forums, it's pretty much a blanket statement covering any and all variants of 7.62x39 AKs, even if its a Saiga. VZ58s, however, are fine seeing as though they're only similar to AK47s in appearance, and AK74s are allowed, since they're obviously in a different caliber.

If someone can pull the actual wording of that law and post it here, I'd appreciate it.

TurtlePhish
March 20, 2012, 11:11 PM
ASSAULT WEAPON

"Assault weapon" means any one of the following:

1. Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 Carbien type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 Series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; USI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol.

2. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon as defined in subdivision (1) or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon as defined in subdivision (1) may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

3. Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) that meets the following criteria:

(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

i. a folding or telescopic stock;

ii. a pistol grip;

iii. a bayonet mount;

iv. a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

v. a grenade launcher.

(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

i. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

ii. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

iii. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

iv. a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

v. a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.

(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:

i. a folding or telescoping stock;

ii. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

iii. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

iv. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

4. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3), or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3), may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Source: General Statutes 53-202a (a) (applies to 53-202b -- 202k).

Commentary: The term "assault weapon" does not include any firearm modified to render it permanently inoperable. General Statutes 53-202a

Here it is, in all it's.... glory...

FlyinBryan
March 20, 2012, 11:22 PM
it would ruin the 300 blackout's reputation before it's able to get its feet wet in the consumer market.

it would instantly double the size of the list of "inherently innaccurate" cartridges.

henschman
March 21, 2012, 06:19 PM
it would ruin the 300 blackout's reputation before it's able to get its feet wet in the consumer market.

it would instantly double the size of the list of "inherently innaccurate" cartridges.

ROFL

Ranb
March 22, 2012, 02:03 PM
Why suppress an AK when just about everything else is less noisy? The gas vent on my WASR is just plain loud. I loaded subsonic ammo for it and still needed ear plugs when shooting it suppressed.

Ranb

3006mv
August 31, 2012, 11:19 AM
this guy thinks it is cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXJRQsX-PW8

jason41987
August 31, 2012, 11:25 AM
i sure as hell hope no ones making an AK in .300 AAC blackout.. that would be a fairly large performance drop over the 7.62 thats already used.. and for what?.. a cartridge thats barely useful for more than supressive fire?... id much rather see an AK rebarreled in something useful and not another specialty one-trick cartridge

7.62x39 makes significantly more than 5.56, and .300 aac blackout produces LESS energy than 5.56... i cant imagine why anyone would neuter an AK? if youre going to rechamber an AK for something newer... 6.5 grendel only requires a barrel change.. and 6.8mm SPC would only need the bolt face of a 5.56mm bolt machined out a bit to convert that and both rounds are superior to the blackout, produce the same energy as a 7.62x39, but have a flatter trajectory due to higher velocites with a higher BC bullet

(btw, i am going to be converting a 5.56mm AK to 6.8mm SPC, but again, a useful cartridge)

fatcat4620
August 31, 2012, 12:20 PM
We dont need no 300, bring on the 6.8 saigas!

jason41987
August 31, 2012, 12:52 PM
We dont need no 300, bring on the 6.8 saigas!
agreed... with the bolt-hold-open they have on saigas as well.. put an extended mag release that kicks the magazine out at the push of a button and youre all set

Girodin
August 31, 2012, 11:16 PM
There were rumors of 6.5 grendel saigas being imported as well as 6.5 wolf ammo. That is an AK I would have bought. A 300 ACC in the AK platform is not something that makes a lot of sense to me.

3006mv
August 31, 2012, 11:56 PM
Well I would like one. Remember the .308 bullet has a better ballistic coefficient readily available and works subsonic out of it, I don't think a subsonic AK would.

jason41987
September 1, 2012, 01:57 AM
Well I would like one. Remember the .308 bullet has a better ballistic coefficient readily available and works subsonic out of it, I don't think a subsonic AK would.
umm.. you can load a 7.62x39mm to be subsonic, and with subsonic you wont have more more than 50 yards range anyway... also, ive seen a number of 7.62x39mm barrels actually use a .308 caliber bullet since .308 blacks are easier to come by

jason41987
September 1, 2012, 01:59 AM
There were rumors of 6.5 grendel saigas being imported as well as 6.5 wolf ammo. That is an AK I would have bought. A 300 ACC in the AK platform is not something that makes a lot of sense to me.
you would need new magazines for 6.5 grendel... sure they share the same base diamter and rim as the 7.62x39, but not the taper, mag takes on too much of a banana shape for the grendel to be reliable in these magazines... and a bit fat for the 5.56mm magazines

SharpsDressedMan
September 1, 2012, 11:36 AM
Why not start with a forged receiver gun, and rebarrel an AK for the 6mm PPC? I'd like to see how accurate an AK COULD be. Since the 6mm PPC is based on the Russian case, it should be easy.

jason41987
September 1, 2012, 11:41 AM
Why not start with a forged receiver gun, and rebarrel an AK for the 6mm PPC? I'd like to see how accurate an AK COULD be. Since the 6mm PPC is based on the Russian case, it should be easy.
6.5 grendel uses the 7.62x39mm base and rim... should start with that, but AK barrels are very light contoured, causes a lot of flex which throws accuracy off, first step would be to go with a larger contour, like an RPK contour... and free-float the barrel as much as possible by combining the gas block and front sight and free floating the handguard

Casefull
September 1, 2012, 11:58 AM
The 300 blackout will definitely die out. All the reasons previously given. What is with so many trying to make the ak into a decent rifle? Is it "trying to be different"? I think there is a perceived "cool factor" to the "look" of the weapon that makes it as popular as it is. Any halfway serious shooter/marksman that has a choice or knows the difference could not want to use an AK. (My narrow minded opinion of course)

jason41987
September 1, 2012, 12:47 PM
The 300 blackout will definitely die out. All the reasons previously given. What is with so many trying to make the ak into a decent rifle? Is it "trying to be different"? I think there is a perceived "cool factor" to the "look" of the weapon that makes it as popular as it is. Any halfway serious shooter/marksman that has a choice or knows the difference could not want to use an AK. (My narrow minded opinion of course)
very narrow minded indeed

TurtlePhish
September 1, 2012, 04:02 PM
Yeah, there's a reason the AK's been in active service for the last half century, and it's not just the price...

meanmrmustard
September 1, 2012, 08:44 PM
The 300 blackout will definitely die out. All the reasons previously given. What is with so many trying to make the ak into a decent rifle? Is it "trying to be different"? I think there is a perceived "cool factor" to the "look" of the weapon that makes it as popular as it is. Any halfway serious shooter/marksman that has a choice or knows the difference could not want to use an AK. (My narrow minded opinion of course)
Really? I mean, really.

3006mv
September 2, 2012, 07:30 PM
"umm.. you can load a 7.62x39mm to be subsonic, and with subsonic you wont have more more than 50 yards range anyway... also, ive seen a number of 7.62x39mm barrels actually use a .308 caliber bullet since .308 blacks are easier to come by" jason41987


Do you know first hand if a subsonic 7.62x39 will cycle and feed another in an AK?
Range beyond 50yards will still kill a hog.
.308Blacks are same as any other .308 bullet.

SharpsDressedMan
September 2, 2012, 08:17 PM
A subsonic .30 has to have a faster twist barrel for optimum performance, and the Soviets had a 9x39mm subsonic round designed for AK use, which would be better yet. And note this: with the right optics, .300 Whisper/Blackout, etc, can be a 400 yard rifle, and packs as much energy at that range as .45ACP at the muzzle.

jason41987
September 2, 2012, 08:21 PM
"umm.. you can load a 7.62x39mm to be subsonic, and with subsonic you wont have more more than 50 yards range anyway... also, ive seen a number of 7.62x39mm barrels actually use a .308 caliber bullet since .308 blacks are easier to come by" jason41987


Do you know first hand if a subsonic 7.62x39 will cycle and feed another in an AK?
Range beyond 50yards will still kill a hog.
.308Blacks are same as any other .308 bullet.
you cant get a 7.62x39mm to cycle well in an AR15 though... russians decided to go with a tapered cartridge due to its increased reliability in both chambering and extraction... and the AR15s straight, restrictive, magwell doesnt like that... so people have been re-engineering cartridges that carry the same flaws the AR15 was designed with so that theyll work OK together

Ranb
September 2, 2012, 08:38 PM
7.62x39 makes significantly more than 5.56, and .300 aac blackout produces LESS energy than 5.56...
The 125 grain 300 BLK at 2215 fps beats any 5.56 load but still falls a bit short of the 7.63x39. I can stabilize a subsonic 180 grain bullet in my WASR-10, but my 300 whisper will stabilize a subsonic 240 grain bullet and way out-perform it in accuracy, power and noise level.

Ranb
September 2, 2012, 08:41 PM
umm.. you can load a 7.62x39mm to be subsonic, and with subsonic you wont have more more than 50 yards range anyway
I think you left off a zero from your figure. I have no problem with targets 200 yards and less with subsonic 30 cal. With my scope dialed in 550 yards is very doable also.

Ranb

jason41987
September 2, 2012, 08:55 PM
ranb... im suprising myself by actually dignifying those two statements with a response.. first off, youre not getting 500 yard range with anything supressed... second of all, that load you suggest produces only 1362 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, ive seen 5.56mm loads over 1400

the .300 AAC blackout is for close-range supression.. its not an assault rifle cartridge and it never will be

SharpsDressedMan
September 2, 2012, 10:36 PM
I'm with Ramb. If you haven't fired a .300 Whispser or .300 Blackout at long range, you are not qualified to disclaim it. I have, and it does, and I'd be glad to show you. .300 subsonic users, speak up here!

Girodin
September 2, 2012, 11:34 PM
If you haven't fired a .300 Whispser or .300 Blackout at long range, you are not qualified to disclaim it

Actually, its pretty easy to punch the muzzle velocity, BC, etc into a ballistics calculator and have a pretty good idea of what the trajectory, drift, and energy of .300 BLK or any other cartridge is going to be at 500 yds or any other distance.

youre not getting 500 yard range with anything supressed...

I take it you mean sub sonic and not suppressed? I have seen lots of suppressed rifles shoot well beyond 500 yds. If you are talking subsonic then there is going to be a significant amount of drop and drift. However,I do find it interesting that one would think there is no way to correct for all that. Drop is mostly just math. Drift is IMHO the harder part as reading/correcting for wind requires more than a laser range finder.

My issue with sub sonic 300 BLK is that as of the last time I checked no one is making bullets designed for those speeds. As a result the terminal ballistics of every sub sonic 300 BLK load I've seen tested were just horrible. They were basically straight .308 holes. For subsonic shooting of a target where terminal ballistics matters I'd skip the 300 BLK with currently available bullets. A bullet designed to expand at low velocity would change that.

If one isn't going to shoot subsonics then I really don't get the 300 BLK. For supersonic shooting I find the other alternative AR cartridges more interesting. In an AK I see no reason at all to go with 300 BLK over x39 for supersonic shooting.

Ranb
September 3, 2012, 01:24 AM
ranb... im suprising myself by actually dignifying those two statements with a response..
Why are you surprised? What experience do you have with these firearms?

first off, youre not getting 500 yard range with anything supressed...
You are not making any sense at all. My suppressed 308 is good for about 800 yards, my suppressed 338unltra mag is good for over 120 yards. Both with standard loads.

My 300 whisper, 338 whisper, 510 whisper are all good for 500 yards at subsonic speeds. With a long range scope and a tilt-down mount zeroing for 500 yards is not a problem. The limitations come from a scope that has only eight to ten mil dots on the vertical axis. I have a Premier Reticles scope with 22 mil-dots on the vertical axis on my 510 whisper. I can zero it for 400 yards and hold over or under from 200 to 600 yards.

second of all, that load you suggest produces only 1362 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, ive seen 5.56mm loads over 1400
You have seen 1400 ft-lbs out of an 18-20 inch 223 ar-15? I am not convinced.

the .300 AAC blackout is for close-range supression.. its not an assault rifle cartridge and it never will be
Why limit yourself to close range?

Ranb

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