Caracal F & C: Pics


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GunNut
March 20, 2012, 12:28 AM
In the last month I have purchased both a Carcal F and C, had the F for 3 weeks and enjoyed it so much had to have the C too. Finally got out to shoot the C today and I will have to say I love this gun, shoots great and has minimal recoil.

Most of the issues that I read about the Caracal line of guns has more to do with politics than actual issues with the guns. Don't have any intention of getting involved with the political issues just want to enjoy a great gun.

So who else has them and what do you think?

Here are some pictures of mine:D


Caracal F & C:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/stmcelroy/Guns/IMG_9748.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/stmcelroy/Guns/IMG_9747.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/stmcelroy/Kydex%20Holsters/IMG_9664.jpg

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KC.45
March 20, 2012, 12:41 AM
I watched the Miltary Arms Channel review on Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpprZgirKs) and was intrigued by these pistols. I have been keeping an eye out at local gun shows just to hold one but have yet to see one. Glad to see you enjoy them.

GunNut
March 20, 2012, 12:45 AM
Not a lot of them out there right now, but I'm definitely loving them.

Love them so much I am seriously thinking about shooting them exclusively for the next few months.

Girodin
March 20, 2012, 12:48 AM
As a huge fan of the Steyr m series of pistols I've been interested in the Caracal since I first saw them.

PabloJ
March 20, 2012, 01:25 AM
The two samples I examined at looked and felt like world-class weapons. I'm holding out for Arsenal Arms 'Strike One' scheduled for release in September 2012.

Stringfellow
March 20, 2012, 03:12 AM
Yes--very interesting pistols. I hope they get a fair shake in the US market.

+1 on the Arsenal Arms pistol. Amazing how one company can offer something so absolutely ridiculous (double barrel 1911) yet offer something with so much promise. I am especially curious to see how their unique barrel link up works out.

Fastcast
March 20, 2012, 09:58 AM
One of the only polymer pistols that actually intrigues me (aesthetics wise) as something more than just another butt ugly tool. Keep us informed on their reliability in the months to come.

GunNut
March 20, 2012, 11:28 AM
One of the only polymer pistols that actually intrigues me (aesthetics wise) as something more than just another butt ugly tool. Keep us informed on their reliability in the months to come.
Will do.

mgmorden
March 20, 2012, 11:46 AM
I've been contemplating one of these Caracals as well. The low bore axis is the main thing that intrigues me - plus just variety in general is nice. It would suck if the world was filled with nothing but Glocks, M&P's, and XD's :).

I must say though that the Strike One that was mentioned here is intriguing me greatly too. It seems to have an even lower bore axis, and these guys seem to be heavily targetting the IPSC market. Integrated magazine "skirt", looks like it has a 5" barrel, and comes with the option for an aluminum frame (aluminum is a bit heavier than polymer so that should soak up some more recoil). Pretty sure that the aluminum framed version would be able to pull in more import points than polymer as well (I know that Glock has to actually add in things that they take back off just to make enough points for import).

I also like the truly ambi mag release on that gun (many these days are reversible, but few seem to be ambi).

Its the first mention I've heard of it, but I'm kinda more excited about this than the Caracal now :).

NG VI
March 20, 2012, 12:20 PM
I'd love it if anything 9mm and up or .22 and below were exempt from the point requirements.

GunNut
March 20, 2012, 12:25 PM
I'd love it if anything 9mm and up or .22 and below were exempt from the point requirements.
Would make too much sense.

I'd love to see a Caracal SC, which I think they can get enough points just by adding some adjustable sights.

dcarch
March 20, 2012, 03:50 PM
I'm holding out for Arsenal Arms 'Strike One' scheduled for release in September 2012.

I really want to check out that gun too!

ExMachina
March 20, 2012, 04:13 PM
My Caracal C has yet to disappoint and only gets better. Normally not a polymer/striker handgun guy but this one hits the mark on every level: reliability, shoot-ability, portability, it all works

Low bore axis, yes. But even better, the barrel is about a high in the slide as it can go and that means that the center of mass of the slide itself is also low. The result is that the gun is not "flippy" at all. Soft-shooting some people call it.

Trigger is really nice too.

I'm seriously considering adding an F to the collection now--might hold out to see if some of the Quick See confugurations ever show up

481
March 20, 2012, 05:02 PM
GunNut,

Nice pistols.

How do their "innards" compare to those of the Glock, XDs and HKs?

Any chance we could get you to "pop the top" on one or both of 'em and give us a look at the underside of the slide and a look down into the frame so we can compare?

NG VI
March 20, 2012, 07:22 PM
What's Quick See, a type of sight configuration?

ExMachina
March 20, 2012, 07:23 PM
How do their "innards" compare to those of the Glock, XDs and HKs?

There is a well-documented and detailed Caracal disassembly here (http://www.steyrclub.com/vb/threads/8753-Caracal-F-Complete-Disassembly)

A really a nice design improvement the Caracal has over the Glock is that the entire trigger assembly lifts out for servicing. Also fewer parts overall. I've heard that the Caracal armorer's course is shorter than Glock's.

GunNut
March 20, 2012, 07:26 PM
What's Quick See, a type of sight configuration?
Different type of sight system with a built in ramp in front of the ejection port.

ExMachina
March 20, 2012, 07:33 PM
What's Quick See, a type of sight configuration?

They're essentially a fixed rear sight, milled into the slide ahead of the ejection port.

Some pics and details here (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/chris-dumm/ttag-issues-amber-alert-for-caracal-c-9mm-wspeed-sights/) (along with a little David Hasselhoff)

You can see a Caracal with the QS sights in action here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eOCRbWXw_k).

To date, they've been rare to no-existent in the US :(

mgmorden
March 20, 2012, 08:37 PM
Just another of the many Glock copies and clones. I will just stick with the original with a vast supply of holsters, accessories and replacement parts in the unlikely event something breaks. No need to build a better mouse trap when you got one that works.

If everyone thought that way we'd still be using match-lock muskets and having this conversation via hand delivered letters ;).

Glocks are pretty decent guns. I own one and it doesn't give me any trouble, but realistically there are still plenty of improvements to be made. The Caracal itself does that in both an extra round of capacity in the F version and a lower bore axis. It also wasn't until the latest generation that Glocks got replaceable backstraps to correct their grip angle (mine is Gen 2 and though I can get used to it, picking up one of my other guns after shooting it immediately reminds me that the Glock angle is just WRONG ;)). They also don't have an ambidextrous mag release and the stock sights are terrible (not only plastic, but also too short).

Overall, nobody is really going wrong by buying Glock, but don't fool yourself into thinking that there aren't improvements to be made (and that there aren't some brands that have already done so).

Hammerhead6814
March 20, 2012, 08:40 PM
I've only held one of the F's so far, and it felt BIG. Maybe I have smaller hands than I thought.

tekarra
March 20, 2012, 09:14 PM
No Caracals in my area as yet, sure would like to try one.

GunNut
March 20, 2012, 09:36 PM
I've only held one of the F's so far, and it felt BIG. Maybe I have smaller hands than I thought.
The grip is the same size as a Glock 17 with a barrel of a Glock 19.

If you want to feel a big grip try out a full size XDm.

NG VI
March 20, 2012, 10:45 PM
How does the C model correlate to the Glocks? Looks to be similar to the 19, but with a hair longer grip.

GunNut
March 20, 2012, 10:49 PM
How does the C model correlate to the Glocks? Looks to be similar to the 19, but with a hair longer grip.
Same or slightly shorter grip with a slight shorter slide length/barrel. Overall length is the same because the C has a longer slide to the rear.

The C fits my hands better than the Glock 19Gen4 that I have.

mr.scott
March 20, 2012, 10:53 PM
Just another of the many Glock copies and clones. I will just stick with the original with a vast supply of holsters, accessories and replacement parts in the unlikely event something breaks. No need to build a better mouse trap when you got one that works.
.

Have you seen how many companies make mouse traps and different traps they make?

jim243
March 20, 2012, 11:36 PM
Dose the rifle butt stock just slip onto the pistol or does it have to be modified?

Jim

reloader-1
March 20, 2012, 11:42 PM
The designer of these is Wilhelm Bubits, a master pistol innovator who developed the Steyr series of hanguns and was working at Glock when a certain curtain rod manufacturer "designed" the Glock 17.

Connect the dots, if you will...

GunNut
March 21, 2012, 12:14 AM
Dose the rifle butt stock just slip onto the pistol or does it have to be modified?

Jim
Slips right into the slots in the grip of the F, there is a spot at the bottom and top of the grip where it attaches.

PercyShelley
March 21, 2012, 05:04 AM
FWIW, the size of the booth and the volume of advertising at SHOT suggested that Caracal is interested in a splashy, big entrance into the US market.

fatcat4620
March 21, 2012, 07:54 AM
Often imitated but never duplicated! Smith & Wesson even got sued with their first attempt.....I was just connecting the dots...:evil:
You do know that by this train of thought glock just copied HK right ? epic fail

ExMachina
March 21, 2012, 10:42 AM
You do know that by this train of thought glock just copied HK right ? epic fail

such a great point. evaluating technology by focusing on who did it first and ignoring innovation and refinements would still have us all driving Model T fords (or whatever "first" car Ford copied)

what Caracal (and others) are trying to do is produce a handgun that preserves the best of what has been established, while adding to the design at the weakest points.

there's nothing wrong with that.

NG VI
March 21, 2012, 11:57 AM
The difference is the VP-70 was actually a significantly different weapon than the Glock platform, not an adaptation of the earlier pistol's design.

GunNut
March 21, 2012, 12:42 PM
Funny how the guys who are dead set in their ways with the guns that they currently have, come into a thread about a different gun and find a way to dog on it without ever trying one.

My Glock works, as does my M&P, heck even the XD's worked great too; but i'm still willing to give another gun a try to see if it does something better than the others.

I bet we could all get back and forth to work/play with the same vehicle too.;)

ExMachina
March 21, 2012, 01:35 PM
Often imitated but never duplicated!

thank God! anybody duplicating a Glock is duplicating a design that is nearly 30 years old and one that is still far from perfect.

"stood the test of time?"--no, more like stayed beyond it's welcome.

i've owned Glocks. they're fine. but they've got a lot of problems. ever wonder why there are sooo many aftermarket products for Glocks?--it's cuz Glocks have a lot of flaws that need fixin' :neener:

if you like Glock then great--you can choose to buy one. lotta people still like Glock and don't mind that the bandwagon they're jumping on only knows how to play one tune :evil:

dcarch
March 21, 2012, 02:38 PM
Five (monopoly) bucks says this thread gets shut down by the end of the day.

GunNut
March 21, 2012, 02:43 PM
Five (monopoly) bucks says this thread gets shut down by the end of the day.
If people would only reply to the thread if they were interested in the gun or had questions it would be great, but for some reason it always turns into a "my guns better than this gun" or "why did they have to reinvent the wheel".

SpodWo
March 21, 2012, 03:25 PM
I have a Glock G22, Glock G19, a Smith M&P and most recently - a Caracal F.

Frankly - for less money, less parts, better ergos, a better trigger [better than the Smith and a bit better than the Glock], lower bore axis - I am sold on the Caracal. When I first shot it - I was immediately more accurate with it. Generally - it takes a bit for me to get used to new pistol but this one feels so great to shoot. I have shot much of the cheap Wally world ammo through it without any issues. It also handles the premioum SD loads.

There is nothing wrong with the Glocks but I personally think this is a better pistol. I certainly am not a fanboy of any one brand and I like the variety of different pistol platforms. I am considering the C model and cetainly would consider the SC model if they were imported.

Now that there is a new import company handling the Caracal - I believe you will see more of them being offered up.

I paid $450.00 for mine new...I see some now for $477.00.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/01/31/caracal-pistol-best-new-handgun-for-2012/

NG VI
March 21, 2012, 03:45 PM
I can't believe they managed to reduce the number of parts over the Glock/Steyr designs, personally.

They're a great looking gun, I think they'll do well here.

GunNut
March 21, 2012, 03:50 PM
I can't believe they managed to reduce the number of parts over the Glock/Steyr designs, personally.

They're a great looking gun, I think they'll do well here.
The only problems that I have heard are about the manufacture wanting to price the gun above Glock/M&P up near or just above the XDm.

No way will it compete if the price is $600-ish, it really needs to be just slightly below Glock pricing to gain any kind of market share.

Girodin
March 21, 2012, 05:18 PM
Often imitated but never duplicated! Smith & Wesson even got sued with their first attempt.....I was just connecting the dots...

Bubbits considered the steyr an improvement on the glock. An interview I saw had him basically saying he considered the caracal an opportunity to keep evolving the design.

The steyr is not a copy of the glock it is an improvement. I have multiple glocks. I think the steyr compares very very favorably to them. The only advantage I give a glock 19 vs a steyr m9 is that glock is more established and therefor has more aftermarket support. I'm not selling my glocks but I wouldn't dismiss others out of hand either.

SpodWo
March 21, 2012, 06:34 PM
The only problems that I have heard are about the manufacture wanting to price the gun above Glock/M&P up near or just above the XDm.



Selling new right now for $477.00. They were selling at $400.00 a while back when their future in the US of A was in doubt.

GunNut
March 21, 2012, 06:37 PM
Selling new right now for $477.00. They were selling at $400.00 a while back when their future in the US of A was in doubt.
Those are unregulated prices, basically clearing out inventory from Waffenwerks. That is by no means the price that they will be selling once Caracal-Usa is back involved.

I only paid $395 each for my C & F, they are definitely worth much more but who will pick an unknown over a Glock or M&P for the same price?

GLOOB
March 21, 2012, 09:11 PM
Meh. It looks like a Glock with a messed up grip. If the Steyr was the first evolution, and this thing the latest, it looks like Bubbits backpedaled in the esthetics department. Right back to where he started. I'd want one about as much as I want a Steyr. Kinda, sorta, but mainly as a collector. It's sure to be scarce when it's competing with M&P and XD. Go USA! (and Croatia!)

ever wonder why there are sooo many aftermarket products for Glocks?Nope. It's obviously cuz they're very popular. Why are there so many aftermarket parts for a Ruger 10/22? If there were so many aftermarket products because the gun was deficient, then the whole market woulda crashed years ago, and everyone would be spending the money on XD's instead of Glock-fixer-doodads.

An even better example is the iPhone. The third party accessory market is into the billlions a year. I was at the CES show this year, and it felt like half the show was iPhone covers.

Hunter125
March 21, 2012, 10:03 PM
Held a Caracal, I believe it was an F, at a gun show last weekend. I can't say I was overly impressed, but I haven't had a chance to shoot one yet. I suppose that could change everything.
I am not a Glock fan, but that's a personal preference thing.

Girodin
March 21, 2012, 11:51 PM
Where can these be had for $400.

If they go up above the cost of glock I don't see them doing real well. It takes a lot of hype (see HK) to get people to pay more than that for a polymer pistol that doesn't really do anything the others wont.

I think pricing (and horrible marketing) really hurt the steyr.

GunNut
March 22, 2012, 12:09 AM
Long Mountain Outfitters in NV had them for $395 plus shipping, but may be out.

Centerfire Systems has them around $450, seen some others in the $450-500 range.

GLOOB
March 22, 2012, 04:47 AM
As for the Steyr being the "next evolution" of the Glock, here's a video of the innards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmHO3hkKWA&feature=related

Interesting things I learned are:
1. Steyr M9 doesn't have a firing pin safety
2. You need a punch to do a basic field strip
3. When you take the action out of the frame, a button and spring pop out the right side. And the slide stop and spring fall out the other side.
4. Then, according to the author of this video, the sear mechanism is "somewhat more complicated than a clock."

I'm curious how the Caracal stacks up.

ExMachina
March 22, 2012, 09:56 AM
^^^^Caracals field strip w/o tools (as does the Steyr--that video is misleading).

Caracals have a FP block.

I have no idea how the Caracal's sear mechanism compares to a clock... :)

GunNut
March 22, 2012, 12:28 PM
As for the Steyr being the "next evolution" of the Glock, here's a video of the innards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xmHO3hkKWA&feature=related

Interesting things I learned are:
1. Steyr M9 doesn't have a firing pin safety
2. You need a punch to do a basic field strip
3. When you take the action out of the frame, a button and spring pop out the right side. And the slide stop and spring fall out the other side.
4. Then, according to the author of this video, the sear mechanism is "somewhat more complicated than a clock."

I'm curious how the Caracal stacks up.
Just because it's an evolution of some other gun doesn't mean it should be simpler.:rolleyes:

Easier to work on a car today or 50 years ago?

Fastcast
March 22, 2012, 12:48 PM
The Glock folks will always break things down to the simplest terms.....Simple tools for simple people. :scrutiny:

GunNut
March 22, 2012, 01:00 PM
The Glock folks will always break things down to the simplest terms.....Simple tools for simple people. :scrutiny:
I wouldn't go that far, I also own Glock's.

Nordeste
March 22, 2012, 02:15 PM
Certainly they look pretty interesting. Is the C model really less tall at the grip than a G19?. Doesn't look so, and it even looks like there isn' much height difference between the two.

How does the striker work?. Is it half cocked ala Glock or fully cocked ala XD?.

GunNut
March 22, 2012, 02:26 PM
Certainly they look pretty interesting. Is the C model really less tall at the grip than a G19?. Doesn't look so, and it even looks like there isn' much height difference between the two.

How does the striker work?. Is it half cocked ala Glock or fully cocked ala XD?.
They are pretty much identical with just a slight overall height difference favoring the Caracal.

The striker is partially cocked like a Glock.

Fastcast
March 22, 2012, 03:10 PM
The "fanatical" Glock folks will always break things down to the simplest terms.....Simple tools for simple people. :scrutiny:


I wouldn't go that far, I also own Glock's.

Ok, fixed it for the rational folks. :) :)

GLOOB
March 22, 2012, 03:34 PM
Just because it's an evolution of some other gun doesn't mean it should be simpler.

Easier to work on a car today or 50 years ago?
The modern car engine is more difficult to work on. But it's more efficient, more reliable, more durable, and has higher power output:weight. So you're saying that the Steyr has evolved in the complexity department. Nice.

I'm not a Glock folk. Glocks are only a quarter of my handgun collection, and I only have so many because I have an LEO friend who updated to the latest gen4 stuff and gave me a deal. There are many things I like about them, and the way the parts go together is part of the allure. I have taken apart most of my firearms down to pieces, for one reason or another. And on every one but a Glock, I'd be loathe to have to do it again.

If the Caracal does, indeed, have less parts and manages to be as easy as a Glock to detail strip and put back together (my gauge is the number of swear words it takes to get the thing back together :)) then that would make it more interesting and noteworthy, IMO.

GunNut
March 22, 2012, 04:03 PM
It's more difficult than a Glock.

The slide has roll pins holding the striker assembly in. But I fail to see the need to detail strip my guns very often so it's not a big deal to me.

Girodin
March 22, 2012, 10:24 PM
You need a punch to do a basic field strip

No you really don't. The person in that video may have used one (likely so you could see), however, I can assure you that one can field strip it by hand and that depressing that thing doesn't require a punch. One could try to make fine distinctions about the relative difficulty of field stripping either but both are so easy its not really worth the effort to discuss it.

brolin_1911a1
March 23, 2012, 01:40 PM
No you really don't. The person in that video may have used one (likely so you could see), however, I can assure you that one can field strip it by hand and that depressing that thing doesn't require a punch. One could try to make fine distinctions about the relative difficulty of field stripping either but both are so easy its not really worth the effort to discuss it.
I agree. I've owned a Steyr S9 for several years, having traded a Glock 22 straight across for it. What the narrator called a "safety" (really a child-proofing ploy) is easily depressed by the thumb sufficiently to allow the take-down lever to rotate past it. And the design allows one to easily keep one's hands well clear of the muzzle while operating it, unlike the Glock which has wounded more than one owner who got a bit absent-minded while field-stripping. Taking out that trigger group as one unit is far easier than taking the same parts out of a Glock, which does require punching out more than one pin to do the equivalent task and which requires far more manual dexterity to reassemble. Given that Bubits designed both, with the Caracal intended to be a further evolution of the Steyr M-series, I can only believe that the Caracal is an even better gun.

PabloJ
March 23, 2012, 02:26 PM
The Glock folks will always break things down to the simplest terms.....Simple tools for simple people. :scrutiny:
That phrase refers to Russian Makarov users.

dcarch
March 24, 2012, 01:22 PM
^I thought it was AK shooters. Oh well. I already knew I was simple. :evil:

Spanky Albert
May 25, 2012, 07:09 PM
They look like a very improved Steyr. I hear they are much less finicky about what you shoot through them. I plan on getting the C model for my next handgun purchase. We will seeing these a lot more soon, as Caracal and their US distributor are planning a big ad campaign here in the coming months.

nelson133
May 26, 2012, 08:58 AM
Since they are the product of a Glock designer that went on to become a Steyr designer that went on to become the Caracal designer, it shouldn't be a surprise that there are family resemblances. It also shouldn't be a surprise that each move led to improved designs as it is easier to make changes in a new product than one that already has an established customer base and all of the investment needed to produce something that is already selling successfully.

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