Military contractors for M16


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wojownik
March 20, 2012, 01:23 AM
Is there a list or reference out there of suppliers of the M16 (all variants) over time to the military? Colt, FNH-USA, Bushmaster, and old rifles by H&R and GM Hydramatic. Did Sabre Defense complete its contract? Any other contractors?

Also, does FNH or Saber sell parts (specifically semi-auto lower receivers) to the civvie market? Is FNH prohibited or something?

Yeah, bottom line is that I'm looking for another receiver to add to the collection, having civvie/LEO versions from Bushmaster and Colt Defense already. Just wanted to add another vendor that did contract work for the military...

Back a million and a half years ago, I trained with an M16 that I distinctly remember having a lion in a circle (H&R), while everyone else had the pony in a circle (Colt). Last question would be if anyone out there sells semi version of an H&R or Hydramatic receiver?

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Trebor
March 20, 2012, 05:41 AM
I think the only military contractor that also made civvie semi-auto rifles is Colt. (Maybe Sabre Defense as well, but did they actually make any for that contract?)

I don't know of anyone making H&R or GM Hydramatic marked semi-auto receivers. The problem is those trademarks are owned by those companies. As far as I know, all the "real" ones are classified as MG's by the ATF.

FN is prohibited from selling semi-auto AR's as part of their contract with the government.

So, you're pretty much out of luck, except for Colt and maybe Sabre.

EDIT: Forgot to add that Balimoy in Florida made replacement M-16 receivers for the military. They never made any for civilian sales though and only made receiver, not complete rifles.

conhntr
March 20, 2012, 06:26 AM
What about matel?

HOOfan_1
March 20, 2012, 08:21 AM
Lion in a circle is also Armalite's symbol...just a little different than H&R

elephant_man
March 20, 2012, 09:48 AM
What about matel?
Nope.

Tirod
March 20, 2012, 10:04 AM
It's "Mattel," and "No." Longest running joke on newbs ever.

Smith357
March 20, 2012, 10:18 AM
When I was in the Corps I carried a Chevy M16a1. OK it was a G.M. :)

wojownik
March 20, 2012, 10:52 AM
I don't know of anyone making H&R or GM Hydramatic marked semi-auto receivers. The problem is those trademarks are owned by those companies. As far as I know, all the "real" ones are classified as MG's by the ATF.

Actually, the Hydramatic trademarks are dead (did a trademark search this morning with USPTO - GM filed to cancel the trademark, as it turns out, which took effect in 2008). I guess they lapsed into the public domain. Wonder if someone could (i.e. would be willing to) do a such stamping on a Nodak lower since it is not protected? The H&R mark is still live, so that one is protected.

Owen Sparks
March 20, 2012, 11:17 AM
Toy maker Mattel was advanced in plastic casting technology in the 1960's and contracted to make the plastic hand grips for the early Viet Nam era M-16. That was the extent of their involvment.

Jorg Nysgerrig
March 20, 2012, 11:23 AM
Toy maker Mattel was advanced in plastic casting technology in the 1960's and contracted to make the plastic hand grips for the early Viet Nam era M-16. That was the extent of their involvment.
Can you provide a reference to back up this claim? As far as I know, this is urban legend too.

Trebor
March 20, 2012, 12:03 PM
Toy maker Mattel was advanced in plastic casting technology in the 1960's and contracted to make the plastic hand grips for the early Viet Nam era M-16. That was the extent of their involvment.

Yep, urban legend all around. No one has ever shown proof that Mattel made any part of the M-16, including the grips or stock. No documents, no pictures, nothing. Mattel has denied it and Colt has denied it. The only "evidence" are some guys with 40 year old memories who claim they saw "Mattel" on a rifle. No one remembers things perfectly and the longer ago the memory, the more hazy it can get, and yet the more "real" it can seem. (Weird thing about memory is what you remember is not always right and sometimes a "wrong" memory can seem more real)

Mattel did make the M-16 "Marauder" toy during that time. John Wayne smashed one against a tree in "The Green Berets."

I've also read where a vet said guys in his unit would get "Mattel" stickers off of toys and put them on the rifle as a joke. I have no idea how common that was, or if it really happened, but it's also a possible source for the Mattel legend.

tarosean
March 20, 2012, 01:14 PM
Martin Marietta, Diemaco Kaiser
Not sure if General Dynamics was in the game back then or not????

there is probably no telling the shear number of subcontractors, etc.??? look at the "typewriter" 1911's Underwood/ Rand for example...

SpeedAKL
March 20, 2012, 03:41 PM
Moving to lesser-known military variants, LMT and Colt supply the Mk.18 CQBRs (at least the upper receivers) to USSOCOM. IIRC the Mk.12 SPR, USMC SAM-R, Army SDM-R, and SEAL Recon Rifle are both built in house although the components are available on the civvie market. Certain SOCOM units also use the HK416 (heavily modified AR-type design), which is either mounted atop an existing M-16/M4 lower receiver or sold as a complete gun.

I've seen rumors on M4Carbine that KAC SR-15s were supplied to certain JSOC units but have not seen this confirmed anywhere.

SlamFire1
March 20, 2012, 04:51 PM
FN is prohibited from selling semi-auto AR's as part of their contract with the government.

I believe it, but it is unbelievable. By preventing FN from entering the civilian market Colt has one less competitor. This is very uncapitalistic.

Sam Cade
March 20, 2012, 07:07 PM
Y'know, there are an awful lot of F.N marked 20" barrels floating around...

I know PSA was selling flat-top uppers with F.N barrels, and I think I remember others.

SlowFuse
March 20, 2012, 09:12 PM
Sabre Defence was awarded a small contract, but i'm also unsure if it was ever completed. They had stuff in the works for an AUG variant also. Its a shame that a few unsavory characters had the whole operation shut down. One of my ARs is by this company, and it is one of my favorite rifles by far. They do have lowers and uppers available for sale, but as time goes on they're getting more rare. Manroy from what I last heard won the bid for Sabre Defence when they shut down, but Ive never heard of them offering anything civilian wise.

wojownik
March 24, 2012, 02:28 PM
Well, searched for a few days on line and at my various LGS'. Looks like I'll postpone my little project for a while. No joy finding lower receivers, especially stripped lowers, for Colt, Bushmaster, Sabre or LMT. Nodak is also out of stock on retros.

lmccrock
March 25, 2012, 07:50 PM
Sabre Defence filed for bankruptcy last year, after the owner was accused of illegally exporting firearms. Looks like somebody bought the remnants, but that is a good reason for it to be hard to find their stuff

Longrifle2506
March 26, 2012, 01:07 AM
I once heard Bushmaster had some kind of a contract; at least at one time; and if it's true, It may have been a small one. I know the main supply is Colt; but Rock River Arms does have a contract with the Drug Enforcement Administration.

I found the following paragraph on Wikipedia:

In 2003, Rock River Arms was awarded a contract with the Drug Enforcement Administration to manufacture a new-issue AR-15 carbine after they beat other manufacturers in qualification testing.[3] The DEA subsequently purchased a substantial number[quantify] of Rock River Arms LAR-15.
Rock River Arms LAR-15 Entry Tactical Rifles are the standard issue patrol rifle to the Dallas Police Department

paintballdude902
March 26, 2012, 01:24 AM
ive seen colt, fn, and some other brand i hadnt heard of.

the other brand was a total POS in basic training.... i wanted to smash the piece of crap after it was jamming every 3-4 rounds. still made expert though

HoosierQ
March 26, 2012, 05:28 PM
The whole Mattel thing got started because the M16 was super lightweight and had plastic stocks...thus the fellas, the first of whom all trained with M-14s (and some of the older guys like a fella that works with me, Garands) called them toy guns in the '65, '66 era.

That's all there is to say about that. Mattel never made any part of the M16 or any other military contract item. Urban (or perhaps Jungle) legend that will not die.

Kind of the like the M-16 bullets tumbling in air which we all heard over and over. Even as a kid it didn't make sense to me cause I knew how a bullet works...you know gyroscopic forces and all that...because I knew why a Kentucky rifle was more accurate than the otherwise fine and beautiful Brown Bess.

AK103K
March 26, 2012, 06:41 PM
Is it is, or is it aint? :D

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f5b7159c600000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Trebor
March 26, 2012, 07:39 PM
Just for the record that's a photoshopped pic that I believe originated over at Arfcom.

DzlDust
June 12, 2012, 10:41 PM
the M16 that I was trained with in Basic ,back in 1988, at Fort Knox,KY said Mattel on it

Float Pilot
June 13, 2012, 01:31 AM
Back in the 1960s I had one of the Mattel plastic TOY M-16s. It had something like a speaker inside the magazine. It was pretty loud. Of course it broke pretty soon,, right were the fore-end met the receiver area. Probably from Butt-Stroking my cousin in the head.
The GET SMART Agent 86 radio / folding submachine gun was a much better product. As was the James Bond 007 plastic attache case with the concealed dagger and plastic Luger carbine that shot hard plastic bullets.

DzlDust
June 14, 2012, 08:49 AM
I remember making a joke abOut it with one of my buddies that I was given a toy gun.cant remember where it said matell on it but do remember the ragging I got from everyone so much that I tried to switch it out.also did not realize till I searched around the forums ,that, I guess this is a common argument about the matell toy company never had anything to do with real m16's

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