S&W model 19 crane play


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area51
March 21, 2012, 02:06 AM
I have a model 19 which has a very very slight crane play if I pull and push back and forth while the Cylinder is open. Is that normal?

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cyclopsshooter
March 21, 2012, 02:12 AM
I'd be more worried about side to side play when closed. Can't say much to your fore and aft issue (a little endshake is normal in a Smith) It might be that your retention screw on the frame above the trigger is loose, or too short. It's not a dangerous issue but not perfect either. Olf Fuff will be along sometime to set you straight.

area51
March 21, 2012, 02:24 AM
I'd be more worried about side to side play when closed. Can't say much to your fore and aft issue (a little endshake is normal in a Smith) It might be that your retention screw on the frame above the trigger is loose, or too short. It's not a dangerous issue but not perfect either. Olf Fuff will be along sometime to set you straight.

Thanks. The screw is tight. Just check my Model 15-4 for play. None...

cyclopsshooter
March 21, 2012, 02:30 AM
Yes, it "shouldn't do it" - You might try the retention screw from the 15 in the 19 and see what happens

Mike-Acer
March 21, 2012, 02:39 AM
area51...Do you glow,Lol....OK...I had a model 19 for many years...Loaded for it...found it shot best loaded just under max. ... Over a rest 3/4" groups at 30/35 yards...Really liked that gun...This was in the early 70s...I had heard that the police depts. were having trouble with them (357). I sold the gun to my brother and he sold it to a friend of his who shooting factory rounds and blew the gun up...He was not hurt...I know I shot several thousand rounds through this gun with no issue...However in the end it let go...so don't take lightly things getting loose on a model 19...

PabloJ
March 21, 2012, 07:01 AM
If you examine large number of S&W regardless of vintage there will be tiny amount of play but just enough to drive Freedom Arms owner nuts!:D

Driftwood Johnson
March 21, 2012, 08:44 AM
I have a model 19 which has a very very slight crane play if I pull and push back and forth while the Cylinder is open. Is that normal?

Howdy

Front to back motion of the crane when the gun is open is not important. What is important is front to back motion of the cylinder when the gun is closed. The frame and barrel will capture the cylinder when the gun is closed, and any play front to back in the crane will be compensated for. Watch carefully as you close the cylinder and the end of the barrel will most likely push the cylinder where it needs to go.

Be careful about overtightening the screw that retains the cylinder crane. It is the front screw of the sideplate. A properly fitted screw will retain the cylinder crane and will also tighten the side plate down when screwed in all the way. Sometimes over the years that front screw accidentally winds up in one of the other side plate screw holes. So sometimes the fitted screw is not even in the correct place. Other times, the screw was never completely fitted anyway.

Bottom line is, if the screw is tightened all the way it may cause the crane to bind and prevent easy rotation. If your screw is tightened all the way and the crane rotates freely, leave it alone. If tightening the screw all the way causes the crane to bind, back it out a tad until the binding goes away.

Or, if you are brave you could try fitting the screw, but you may wind up messing it up.

kg7il
March 21, 2012, 09:34 AM
Ensure that the ejector rod is tight also.
I have play when the crane is open, very minimal.
Cylinder closes tight with small cylinder gap.

However, shooting does seem to loosen the ejector rod and increase this play.

BCRider
March 22, 2012, 12:55 PM
Seems like some folks are focusing on the cylinder to crane. The OP is talking about the crane to frame fit. At least that's how I read his post.

If you realize how the crane is retained in the frame by the pin on the end of the forward most side cover screw you would realize that a little fore-aft play in this joint is entirely normal. Healthy even. But it shouldn't be more than an amount about equivalent to the thickness of a business card. If it's more then it implies that the screw end pin is badly worn.

For those that mention the ejector rod coming loose frequently you can tighten it a little more by holding the knurling of the end rod with some pliers padded with a fold of leather or thick cardboard. THen stick some empty case in the cylinder and LIGHTLY use the cylinder to tighten the ejector JUST A LITTLE tighter than you can do simply with finger pressure. Just don't go hog wild since you've now got the leverage to go way overboard. Just a light pinch more than you can get with finger torque only will do. It'll never shoot loose again if you do it right. Yet done right there's no risk of any damage to the threads or any other part.

Jim K
March 22, 2012, 01:05 PM
There might be a bit of end play iin the crane; the retaining screw has to allow enough play for the cylinder to open freely. But if there is very much, there can be a problem.

But there is some misunderstanding here. Headspace, barrel-cylinder gap and cylinder end shake is not really controlled by the barrel, but by the arbor on the crane bearing on the inside of the center hole in the cylinder. You certainly don't want a revolver in which the cylinder can move forward far enough to bear on the back end of the barrel.

Jim

rcmodel
March 22, 2012, 01:10 PM
Just for the Halibut, take the two dome-head sideplate screws out and exchange them.

If the one you take out of the hole behind the trigger-guard seems to start getting tight in the front crane retention hole before it is supposed to get tight?
Stop and put it back where it came from.

If it doesn't, tighten it and see if the crane will still open smoothly, and if the endplay is now gone.

rc

area51
March 22, 2012, 01:31 PM
ust for the Halibut, take the two dome-head sideplate screws out and exchange them.

If the one you take out of the hole behind the trigger-guard seems to start getting tight in the front crane retention hole before it is supposed to get tight?
Stop and put it back where it came from.

If it doesn't, tighten it and see if the crane will still open smoothly, and if the endplay is now gone.

rc

Tried that and did not help. Called S&W today and they'll send me some various length size side plate screws which might remedy the problem.

On a different note, whats the service life on the m19 shooting 38s and 357? Read somewhere that I shouldn't run too many 357 through her as the frame is not as "sturdy" as a M27 or M28.

rcmodel
March 22, 2012, 02:58 PM
I don't know yet.
My 6" model 19 is only a little over 40 years old.

It has seen a lot of .38 Spl, and mid-level .357 Mag 140 grain JHP handloads.

The frame is not the weak link.
The barrel forcing cone has a thin flat spot milled out for cylinder gas ring clearence.

That is the weak link, if there is one.

rc

area51
March 22, 2012, 04:58 PM
The frame is not the weak link.
The barrel forcing cone has a thin flat spot milled out for cylinder gas ring clearance.

That is the weak link, if there is one.


Great info. Thanks RC !

Jim K
March 22, 2012, 10:34 PM
Well, that cut out forcing cone was the weak spot in the Model 19, the result of using a K frame for .357 Magnum. The cut out was no problem with .38 Special, but with the higher pressures of the .357, the forcing cones sometimes failed. It was not a common occurrence and usually happened with hot handloads, but the eventual solution was the L frame.

Jim

gamestalker
March 23, 2012, 03:51 PM
I have a couple of 66's that eat a steady diet of .357's (H110). One is a 66-2 the other a 66-5 and both are as tight as it gets. But I have no idea if the 19''s being that they are blue, and not stainless, will wear faster than the stainless version 66.

area51
May 12, 2012, 12:40 AM
Anyone has used yoke bearing ( shims ) ? They are a solution to the yoke end play... If anyone has some extras I would be willing to trade or purchase a few from you....

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