Problems you have with firearms...


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Carolina Kalash
March 21, 2012, 02:18 PM
By that I mean with the firearms themselves, not things like price or laws...

For an engineering class im in, i have to research a problem in a field of my choosing, and i figure this forum is as good of a place as any to get help with this

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Swing
March 21, 2012, 02:59 PM
Can you be a little more specific? Are we talking about run of the mill malfunctions, design flaws, or dangerously bad failures?

AlexanderA
March 21, 2012, 03:04 PM
Look at the historical failures, such as the Chauchat LMG, the Ross straight-pull rifle, the Colt Paterson, etc. The history of firearms is replete with such examples.

Sam Cade
March 21, 2012, 03:10 PM
By that I mean with the firearms themselves, not things like price or laws...

For an engineering class im in, i have to research a problem in a field of my choosing, and i figure this forum is as good of a place as any to get help with this

Running out of ammunition.

Seriously. Magazine design is in and of itself a fascinating discipline, and most self loading firearms malfunctions are magazine related.

Folks trying to reliably stuff that 8th round into a 1911 magazine and all of the spring and follower permutations that that has entailed is reads like a viking saga.

sigpro
March 21, 2012, 03:13 PM
Are we talking about design problems? If we are I can think of two.

1. You need hands like an NBA player to operate the selector on an MP5. But I think they fixed that in later models.

2. in the old M60 MG, you could reassemble the gun with the bolt in backwards. It would go together fine, you just couldn't shoot it.

I could probably think of more, but thinking makes my head hurt.

Sam Cade
March 21, 2012, 03:41 PM
in the old M60 MG, you could reassemble the gun with the bolt in backwards. It would go together fine, you just couldn't shoot it.


Gas piston. It would make it into a straight pull.

Not possible to do with later versions.

Claude Clay
March 21, 2012, 03:41 PM
historically the ability to reach out and hurt your enemy ( they change over the years but we never run out of them...) has driven engineering and science & chemistry and manufacturing and tool making ant metal working..and metal making and.....kinda get where im going....?

the trouble with them now may be that they are too darn effective.

well, i didn't mean that, not that way at least.
for honest folk the handgun lacks what?
what needs improving?

id like a holster like in The Weapon Shops of Isthar. think 'gun' and the wire on the holster to the gun whips the gun into your hand faster than muscles can move.
matter of fact, the person has to train till they can use the holster without the gun breaking their hand.

the gas operated hard projectile system has had improvements sinse 1911, but weight vs power vs controlability has pretty much been achieved.

sigpro
March 21, 2012, 03:47 PM
Gas piston. It would make it into a straight pull.

i stand corrected. What can I say, I was a Corpsman, not a 0331. ;)

rajb123
March 21, 2012, 03:52 PM
What about the Remington "Walker" trigger in the Model 700 rifle? This is the most populuar rifle ever sold. Many users claim it tends to fire without pulling the trigger.

CNBC runs a smear TV documentary 2 or 3 times a month. Their beef appears to be that under the law, firearms makers cannot be compelled to "re-call" their guns even if they are defective.

In the end, guns should not be pointed in unsafe directions and most of the people injured or killed with these guns have been the victoms of poor gun handling by others who should know better.

Carolina Kalash
March 21, 2012, 04:35 PM
not design flaws, just regular annoying things you have to deal with, like noise, recoil pads that don't fit on your gun, loading up hi cap mags and things like that...

M-Cameron
March 21, 2012, 04:51 PM
What about the Remington "Walker" trigger in the Model 700 rifle? This is the most populuar rifle ever sold. Many users claim it tends to fire without pulling the trigger.

CNBC runs a smear TV documentary 2 or 3 times a month. Their beef appears to be that under the law, firearms makers cannot be compelled to "re-call" their guns even if they are defective.

In the end, guns should not be pointed in unsafe directions and most of the people injured or killed with these guns have been the victoms of poor gun handling by others who should know better.

there is nothing wrong with the 700 trigger.......the "problem" came from people who neglected to maintain their firearms, or donkeyed with the trigger.

MrDig
March 21, 2012, 07:25 PM
How about Trigger wobble in Lever Action Rifles? Worse yet is the simple fix that you can get by installing a one piece trigger and sear yet the factory continues to install the wobbly two piece design.

Patriotme
March 22, 2012, 11:59 AM
I don't know if this is what you want but I've had (and seen) a couple of revolvers bind up over the years. If you get them dirty enough you can have the face of the cylinder drag on the forcing cone as it rotates. I've seen them bind up enough that they won't operate. Granted, it usually takes a few hundred rounds and a few brushes with a cleaning brush and a little oil quickly fixes it. This is not a big deal but it shows that nothing is perfect in the gun world.
I've also had a Springfield V10 years ago that constantly jammed. The slide didn't appear to have a propper heat treatment. After a few hundred rounds the notch for the slide lock started getting chewed up and rounded out. They replaced it after a couple of trips back to the factory.
That's about it for firearms issue over the years.

Loosedhorse
March 22, 2012, 01:01 PM
Issue #1 is always dependability (for a SD gun), whether that is fewer malfunctions, less risk of breakage, or fewer parts to break. You'd have to do better than Glock on this one.

Issue #2 is bore axis; a high bore increases the torque on the wrist in recoil (muzzle flip), causing issues with dependability ("limp-wristing") and slowness of follow-up shots. The Chiappa Rhino has tried to address that, but by using more parts (see dependability, above). It may not be possible to avoid high bore axis in a semi-auto handgun; well, except maybe something like...

http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/Kriss.jpg

:D

Pet-peeve: hammer bite. But, that's been solved in a number of ways. So, why didn't they "solve" it to begin with! ;)

3KillerBs
March 22, 2012, 05:08 PM
not design flaws, just regular annoying things you have to deal with, like noise, recoil pads that don't fit on your gun, loading up hi cap mags and things like that...

Not being able to reach things like the slide release and the magazine release because my hands are small and my fingers are short. For example, its physically impossible for me to lock a Colt 1911 open to show clear at the range unless I lay it on the bench and pin the grip down with my chest so I can use both hands for the slide release and the slide itself. That's not great from either a safety standpoint or the standpoint of treating the gun with the respect due to its finish. I did it once in a class to an empty gun with an empty magazine (yes, yes, "All guns are always loaded," etc.), and can think of no realistic scenario where I would absolutely HAVE TO do it that way again.

And there are only a handful of guns from which I can drop a magazine one-handed by hitting the release with my right thumb.

With more and more women carrying correcting this sort of problem might make a good project if you're looking for a design challenge.

HDCamel
March 22, 2012, 05:28 PM
Mechanically, guns are pretty much figured out.

beatledog7
March 22, 2012, 07:33 PM
Autoloaders that won't reliably feed some kinds of rounds (JHPs, SWCs, etc.) caused by (I think) feed ramp and magazine not mating properly.

Blackstone
March 22, 2012, 09:00 PM
That they don't aim themselves? :D

Sheepdog1968
March 23, 2012, 02:18 AM
I would say it would have to be quality control. I am sick and tired of purchasing guns that have flaws that should have been caught and fixed at the factory. Sure, manufacturers are more than happy to fix them when you send them back to firearm. However, I would just assume get it well done when it leaves the factory. I think firearms that were built 50 years ago were better made and required less returns to the factory. This all ties inti six sigma type stuff.

Ignition Override
March 23, 2012, 02:27 AM
Dorkfish88:
My limited background only includes very frequent use of a few milsurp rifles.
Frankly, my only instruction has been pointers given by very seasoned friends (one friend set two AR records on the Navy Marks. Team years ago).

My primary hang-up is trying to use the very open sights on Yugo Mausers, and to a lesser extent, similar open sights on other battle rifles.

This is why the new Tech Sights are so much more accurate on my common, typical, Norinco SKS. Don't discount the improved sight distance. If I ever buy an AK clone (Not a Century build), it will very quickly acquire a Tech Sight. Even "Nutnfancy" (YouTube) likes his.

45_auto
March 23, 2012, 07:21 AM
I am sick and tired of purchasing guns that have flaws that should have been caught and fixed at the factory.

Why do you purchase guns that are flawed? Do you buy all of your guns sight-unseen over the internet?

If people didn't buy the flawed guns, the manufacturers would either go out of business or start producing higher quality firearms.

If you don't care enough to notice a flaw before plunking down many hundreds of dollars for a gun, do you really expect some "inspector" making a few dollars an hour to care more about it than you do? It's your money, not his.

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 23, 2012, 07:39 AM
I dislike the standard push-button magazine release on most pistols (Glock, S&W, etc). As one with small hands, I cannot reach the button with either my strong or support hand without significantly altering my grip on the pistol. When executing reloads, I've been taught to reach for the fresh mag with the support hand, after it's been secured, drop the magazine with the strong hand. This is tactically sound, but I can't do it without shifting the pistol in my hand. Under stress and/or with sweaty or bloody hands, this could cause me to drop the pistol, and at very least, I need to reestablish my grip once a new mag is in place.

I GREATLY prefer the ambidextrous lever style found on pistols such as the Walther P99 and the HK P30. With this style, I can use the lever using the middle finger on my strong hand without shifting the pistol at all. This can be done while the gun is on target, or after bringing it up into my "workspace" as in a tactical reload.

Also, the ambi-lever mag releases can be used identically regardless of your shooting hand. This is good when teaching support hand shooting tactics, as the same reload methods can be used.

I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P because I like almost everything about that gun, and I shoot it very well. But if I could change one thing, I would give it the ambi lever style mag release from the P99. I'm a right handed shooter, but I've actually switched push button on my M&P to a leftie style, just so I can push it with my strong hand middle finger. It's not as good as a lever, but it's better that change my grip entirely to make up for my stubby thumbs.

bigfatdave
March 23, 2012, 08:04 AM
Ragnar Danneskjold,I'm with you on the flipper release, and I have large hands.

I'm quite sure that if JMB had developed a flipper or doublesided button (like the CZ82/XD/XDM/HS2000) that everything would have that design now, it is so obviously superior and simple.

Perhaps a paper on how a "pretty good" design like the one-way button ends up having longevity because of existing machinery on the market, and causes a "better" design to be a curiousity/oddity on a few models

Loosedhorse
March 23, 2012, 09:33 AM
Why do you purchase guns that are flawed?I think we should give ourselves a break.

The last gun I purchased was a handgun. I tested it at the counter (not with live ammo, though) and it was fine.

When I got it to the range, it malfunctioned. During a 50-round test session, I got it to fire two rounds in rapid succession exactly twice.

Oh--did I mention this was a revolver? :rolleyes::banghead:

Good news: I called up, the manufacturer sent me a shipping label AND covered pick-up cost from my door; they got it back to me in under 2 weeks; it is now perfect.

Sometimes a gun's flaws don't express themselves except during live fire. As a sometime-restorer of C&R pistols, I can tell you that successful dry-fire is only the first hurdle.

PedalBiker
March 23, 2012, 09:42 AM
I think we should give ourselves a break.

The last gun I purchased was a handgun. I tested it at the counter (not with live ammo, though) and it was fine.

When I got it to the range, it malfunctioned. During a 50-round test session, I got it to fire two rounds in rapid succession exactly twice.


Yup, the same thing happened to me with a Ruger MarkIII. It looked perfect, but wouldn't feed ammo, the rounds kept impaling themselves on the sharp bottom edge of the feed ramp. Upon inspection I determined that the feed ramp was too short (or the magazine was not placed correctly in the gun). I soldered a 1mm extension onto the bottom of the feed ramp and now it feeds perfectly. I decided my fix was easy enough that I didn't want to bother with trying to get a "real" repair.

It just doesn't seem that if the gun was fired for function before shipping this would not have shown up.

bigfatdave
March 23, 2012, 10:12 AM
Oh--did I mention this was a revolver?PfffT!
Impossible! Everyone knows that there is nothing that can fail in a wheelgun, and that problems are only in those new-fangled autoloading designs!

Demos
March 23, 2012, 11:09 AM
I would say my biggest problem with firearms is the number of ambidextrous firearms made. Righties complain about ambi features being too obtrusive/wasteful/generally unpretty (a 1911 with ambi safeties brought about all these criticisms in a discussion I had) so lefties are forced to adopt awkward styles of shooting, or be limited to a vastly reduced selection of guns that will actually work smoothly while being shot lefty.
There is nothing I hate more in shooting than trying to cycle a righty bolt action rifle with a scope on it while slung up and shooting lefty.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 23, 2012, 11:21 AM
My guns are ammo guzzlers, I have to refill them too many times in one range session! Where are the hybrids that last longer with the same amount of ammo?

HoosierQ
March 23, 2012, 03:44 PM
I just bought a beautiful brand new in-box Ruger 10/22 sporter with a 22 inch bbl, checkered walnut stock which looked flawless...and pretty much is...

except...

I took it apart and it had only one of the two receiver pins holding the trigger group to the receiver :what: :banghead:

all the guts and even the inside of the stock...the inletted wood...is just flawless...just one pin short.

Nothing a quick 1.99 internet part order hasn't fixed but it kind of killed the buzz of the new gun...but I got over it.

45_auto
March 23, 2012, 04:27 PM
My guns are ammo guzzlers, I have to refill them too many times in one range session! Where are the hybrids that last longer with the same amount of ammo?

They're called "muzzle loading black powder" guns. You can get them as both rifles and pistols. 1000 rounds is pretty cheap, and will last most people for many years.

Magnuumpwr
March 23, 2012, 08:59 PM
Any left-handed people ever shoot a Thompson 1927A1 and try to rapid fire it? I did, dropped the 30 rd mag after about 4 shots. The stinking mag release is too close to the trigger area on the left side. Or how about the safety on Desert Eagle XIX getting loose while shooting and making the gun in-operable till it is tightened.

olafhardtB
March 25, 2012, 04:38 PM
I think that in the past the manufacturers got to much input from macho gun writers(Whelin, Kieth, Cooper etc) and super jock competitive experts and not enough from us. The internet has made a positive change in that.

tryshoot
March 25, 2012, 07:08 PM
Sound suppressers should be as esay to get as a muffler on a car. My neibors would be happier, especally the dogs. I to am right handed, but beleve they should make slide stop and mag release ambi. Sometimes you have to improvise. All sights should be replaceable. You should upgrade to what it needs for your use. Some need snag free,some target, some fixed, some adj., some others on same gun for use.

Buck Kramer
March 26, 2012, 08:59 AM
I hate the AR buffer tube BAAAZZZINGGG from the buffer tube when it cycles.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 26, 2012, 09:31 AM
They're called "muzzle loading black powder" guns. You can get them as both rifles and pistols. 1000 rounds is pretty cheap, and will last most people for many years.

That's like switching from Pickup trucks to Horse and Buggy! :eek:

Sheepdog1968
March 26, 2012, 01:42 PM
Another area would be lack of true innovation in new firearms. Many of them look like knockoffs of other brands rather than something new. The Rhino revolver was different but the smith and wessons newerer revolver is just a copy of the tarus judge model. Also much of the market for firearms is dictated by pricepoint rather than quality. You could probably make ties to apple computer vs a dell pc or a jaguar vs a ford focus. Money can be made with a quality product but many manufacturers won't try this approach. There are some that do however.

XD 45acp
March 27, 2012, 06:50 AM
I got this Jennings J-22..........:neener: Now there's an engineering disaster...

Odd Job
March 27, 2012, 06:59 AM
1) On the SIG522 rifle, the bolt does not hold open on the last round all the way to the rear. It holds open on the magazine, which means when you remove the magazine the bolt goes forward (or you have to pull it all the way back and use the bolt catch).

2) On many rifles (for me) there is not enough extension on the butt stock (but some people say I am a knuckle-dragger).

3) On the Kel-Tec S2000 I find it difficult to get a comfortable sight picture unless wearing very slim ear defenders.

4) Can't stand the buffer tube "sproing" on most AR-15s.

5) Thompson R55 rifle is difficult to clean from the chamber end (pretty much restricted to using a bore snake if you want to clean from breech to muzzle)

3KillerBs
March 27, 2012, 11:32 AM
1)...

2) On many rifles (for me) there is not enough extension on the butt stock (but some people say I am a knuckle-dragger).

...

Wish I could trade you the 3-6 inches of extra butt stock I don't need. :D

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