[John_Q]

Just started reloading and am having problems with rounds not fitting properly in the chamber. If I remove the chamber from the gun and put a round in its gets stuck. I've been reading up a few books and it looks like its not crimping correctly.

It must be my setup as I"m new to reloading but can't figure out how to fix it.

I've got a 2nd hand Hornady pro-jector loading press with a mix and match of dies. The deprimer station is working fine. I've setup the expander die so there is a slight bell for the bullet. This looks fine too.

Station 4 is a Hornady Seater 9mm (100_7441.jpg)
Station 5 is a RCBS 9mm LU Seat #3 78 (100_7440.jpg)

First of all will this setup work?

On the Hornady seater I adjusted the die so that it just touches the plate, and then adjust the top knob for depth. (28mm - PMP brass with Josyd 115gr 9mm bullet)

On the RCBS die I've adjusted the die so it touches the plate and then done one turn back. Whats does the spindle on top adjust? If I move it down too much then it pushes the bullet further into the case. No matter what adjustments I do here, it doesn't seem to have any effect.

The last pic of of the round in the chamber.

Where am I going wrong?

[MtnCreek]

Station 4 is a Hornady Seater 9mm (100_7441.jpg)
Station 5 is a RCBS 9mm LU Seat #3 78 (100_7440.jpg)
Sounds like you're running 2 seat dies. Only one should be used. Station 5 could be used for a dedicated crimp die.

On the RCBS die I've adjusted the die so it touches the plate and then done one turn back. Whats does the spindle on top adjust?
The top adjustment is for setting seating depth. Screw the seating die down till it touches a sized, belled, unprimed case. Then turn it back out about a half turn. Lock it in place. With the top adjustment turned out (up) all the way, insert a bullet and operate press. Measure the OAL and lower the top adjustment as needed. Continue doing this until the seated bullet gives your target length.

Next thing you will need to do is crimp. If doing this with the seating die, with the case/seated bullet in the shellholder, adjust the top adjustment (seating depth adjustment) back out a few turns. Loosen the die and screw it in till it touches the case mouth, then give it an additional 1/8 turn. Operate press and check the crimp. Continue doing this until proper crimp (which is not really a crimp w/ 9mm; you're just looking to remove the bell from sta 2). Once you have the proper crimp (and remember we're not really crimping!), lock the die in place and w/ the seated, crimped cartridge in the shellholder, adjust the top adjust (seater stem) till it touches the bullet.

Couple of possibilities:
Bullet is seated too long, causing the bullet of your loaded cartridge to hit the rifling. *Adjust bullet depth*
Too much crimp causing the case mouth to go past the chamber of your barrel. *Adjust crimp to Just remove bell*

[John_Q]

I think that's what was confusing me - so both are 9mm seating dies? Doh!

I've now removed station 5 (If its a seating die and not a taper crimping die do I now need to get a taper crimping die - I've read that for a 9mm you need them?) and adjusted like you suggested. I've also reduced the COL of the round and now it seems to fit a lot better in the chamber - almost loose.

I also came across this youtube video which explains it in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBRcUk7uRc8

[918v]

A good way to check crimp is to hold the round up against the sky and see the path of the case wall. You have to adjust the crimp die so you are not seeing any bell in the case mouth.

But you may have an OAL problem here. CZs have very short chamber throats and require bullets to be seated deep.

[rcmodel]

Either or both dies you have are seating & taper crimp dies.

Use one or the other, but not both.
(well you could seat in one station, and crimp in another, but thats just going to confuse you further now at this point)

Screwing either die down to contact the shell plate will give you excessive taper-crimp.

Follow MtnCreek's instructions to adjust the crimp, then adjust the seating depth, and you should be fine.

You want to adjust the crimp so the case mouth of a loaded round measures .376" with most brass and jacketed bullet combinations.


If still in doubt or still having problems?
Color a loaded round with a dry-erase marker and force it in the chamber.

Where the marker rubs off is your problem.

rc

[MtnCreek]

Your seater dies should taper crimp.

Adjust seating depth till a loaded (dummy) cartridge falls into and out of the chamber with it's own weight. Then re-assemble the pistol and cycle the dummy from the mag, into the chamber and out of the chamber. If that works, you should be good to go. The only other possible issue I can think of; I have loaded a cartridge to a length that functioned, but reduced my mag capisity by one. You won't know that until you've loaded enough ammo to fill the mag. It's not a big deal because at that point, you're still in the early phase of load development.

[918v]

You can use the second seater die to crimp. You don't need to buy another crimp die. Just back out the seater stem so it is not rocking the bullet while crimping.

[John_Q]

It seems the only way I get the round to fall in and out of the chamber is to apply a lot of crimp. Will I think its a lot of crimp - maybe its normal. I've removed the bullet and checked it after the crimp. Its not deformed but there is a ring around it from the crimp. Is that normal? If I apply less crimp them it sticks in the chamber.

[kingmt]

Something looks funny about your setup. It looks like a RCBS sizing die in one & a Lee sizing die in 2. I don't see a depriming pin in ether. Is that a RCBS expanding die in 3? How do you get your powder in? I assume that is the seating die in 5.

The sizing die in 1 should contact the shell plate at the top of the stroke. None of the other dies should contact the plate. If you have a factory round put it in 5 with the seating plug all the way out crank the die down against the factory round hard(by hand) until it stops then screw the seater in until it stops. This will give you a round close to that of the factory. Adjust as needed.

[John_Q]

S1 is the deprimer - the pin is there. S2 the expander. S3 - Ive removed the power measurer - just playing with the seating atm.
S4 - the seating die. I've removed S5.

It looks like I'm getting somewhere now. I've seated the bullet in even further and it doesnt require that much crimping now. I've set the COL to 27mm with little crimping and the round falls out now under its own weight.

[kingmt]

So are you saying this is a seating die? http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=161536&d=1332518223

[Jeff H]

What gun?

The Springfield XD and the CZ75 both require that lead bullets be seated pretty deep to clear the rifling.

[John_Q]

@kingmt - I"m using the RCBS as the seating die. I've removed the Lee. It appears both are seating dies - so I've removed one of them from S5.

Its a 9mm Browning HP.

Unfortunately I can't find any data on the bullets I have. What happens if you are under the COL? If its say 28mm and you load for 27mm?

[kingmt]

There is no difference between 27mm & 28mm just keep driving on for now.

I'm still confused from looking at your picture of the press. starting at the rear post I see a Lee sizing/depriming die, clockwise of that I see what looks like a RCBS expanding die, a empty, probably a seating die, & last looks like a RCBS sizing die. I understand these may have moved by now.

[John_Q]

Thanks - I'll try fire off a few rounds at 27mm.

You are correct in the identification of the dies. I think originally the last station was used as crimper. S4 and S5 both have seating dies in - I've now removed S5 and only have the seating die in S4.

[rcmodel]

In post #5, I said:
If still in doubt or still having problems?
Color a loaded round with a dry-erase marker and force it in the chamber.

Where the marker rubs off is your problem.

Did you do that???

rc

[rfwobbly]

I agree with all of the above. Except to add you seem to have BOTH the die adjustment and the OAL issue going on concurrently. To remain sane, you'll have to tackle them one issue at a time.

With your 5 station machine here's what I'd do....

► Adjust the dies first. Die adjustment (except for OAL) is set once and then hardly ever touched again. This is because you are trying to get the used brass to once again take the shape of the chamber. Once you achieve this, the chamber certainly isn't going to change, so neither should the major die adjustments.

Personally I would go with all the dies installed like you started with, but with some special adjustments. I think you have sizing and flaring down OK. See the cartoon below to understand what follows....

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w9bxU1Cc8rI/S6aGRjn0jPI/AAAAAAAACu0/atBUr0xY38s/s576/reloading%2520assy.jpg

The die BODY (teal) works ONLY on the case, while the seating stem (red) ONLY works on the bullet depth.

• In position #4, set the die body to where the finished case mouth is measuring about .390". This is some reduction, but certainly not a finished taper crimp. The seating stem in position #4 will change for each new bullet shape. That's how you'll be setting the OAL. Don't worry about the stem now, just get the .390" at the mouth. The best way to do this is to make up some "test cartridges" with no powder and no primer.

• In position #5, you will not need a seating stem so you can completely remove it from the die. I'd do this to remind you that you are only using it's taper crimp capability. You want to adjust the die body on this die to produce the .376" dia case mouth that RC discussed above. Again, use your "test cartridges".

Remember the 9x19 cartridge is a tapered cartridge, so your crimp measurements are only made on the last 1/32" of the case, right where the bullet goes in.

Setting up like this will give you the best chances for smooth press operation.

► Finally, I'd set the seating stem to an OAL that allows the finished cartridge to drop into and back out of the chamber. The OAL will be different for each new bullet.

My advice would be to start with plated or jacketed bullets. Lead bullets are cheaper, but end up being slightly more ticklish for the new reloader since they are a larger diameter. After 6 months of loading one of the other types, you can then come back to the lead.

Hope this helps.

[greyling22]

Could you possibly just have a tight or dirty chamber? have you tried dropping a factory round in the chamber? does it stick? have you tried pulling out a set of calipers and measuring your loads against a factory round?

or, as usual, the easiest thing to do is try rcmodels suggestion of blackening the bullet/case and see what rubs off and go from there.

[918v]

What is the diameter of the bullet? Diameter and OAL both influence chambering. The bigger the diameter, the shorter the OAL needs to be.

[John_Q]

Ok - some progress. Just got back from the range. First to answer the questions above.

@rcmodel: I put a marker on the round and put it in the chamber, it came off ever so slightly above the mouth - see pic. I've marked it in red. (With OAL 1.060)

With a OAL of 1.100 the mark moves much higher up and it doesn't fit properly in the chamber. (pic 7455 and 7456)

@rfwobbly. Thanks. I've followed your advice and its a lot better but still some problems - see below. I think you might be onto something with the jacketed bullets. I'll try my luck there and see how it goes.

@greyling22/918v - the chamber is sparkly clean. It might be a tight chamber I guess? Don't know.

I've measured a new factory round (Lellier & Bellot 115gr FMJ - the mouth is 0.380)

Dropped a factory round in the chamber works fine - it doesn't stick at all.

I then checked it against my rounds (Although they are lead) - they are also .380 - .383

So I go to the range and have some success. The gun doesn't explode :) All the rounds fire off ok, and are fairly accurate. The only problem I am having now is none of the spent cases eject. I had to pull back the slider and then the brass popped out. It wasn't stuck in the chamber, kind of just lying there. Not sure why it didnt auto eject. If this from an OAL too long, or too short, or neither?

I fired a few rounds of the FMJ above - it works flawlessly and ejects every time.

2 more questions:
- If I now load my fired brass do you think it will work better and maybe eject the round? The fired brass I'm loading has never been fired in my gun before.

- I wonder if I will have any more luck with a FMJ round as opposed to a lead round?

I've setup all the rounds for an OAL of 1.060 - it fits in the chamber but it doesn't fall out like the factory round. Sticks every so slightly.

[Fatdaddy]

Just for giggles, make a dummy round and change nothing but the OAL. Seat the bullet even deeper in the case and see if the problem goes away.
Sounds like your getting into the rifling of the bbl to me.

[Walkalong]

Just for giggles, make a dummy round and change nothing but the OAL. Seat the bullet even deeper in the case and see if the problem goes away.
Sounds like your getting into the rifling of the bbl to me.

Like this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

Use one seater with the body backed off the shell plate two turns to seat. Use the stem to adjust seating depth as rfwobbly's diagram shows. In other words, adjusted so it cannot crimp, only seat.

Then use the second seater with the seating stem removed to crimp, adjusting the die body to do so.

[greyling22]

I agree with fatdaddy. try seating it deeper. From where your marks are showing up it looks like a bullet depth issue, not a crimp issue.

Also, for me, falling out of the chamber is a little over rated. As long as the ammo functions safely in the gun I'm happy. The key is safely. A very light sticking I'm ok with, you really don't want the round to prevent the slide from closing all the way and the gun to fire out of battery.

[rfwobbly]

Mr Q -
Progress on BOTH fronts, but you still have the same 2 issues.

► Taper Crimp. If you'll look at the diagram of a 9x19 Luger round in your reloading manual, you'll see the dimension ".380" there at the mouth of the case. That's the maximum allowable dimension at the case mouth. Obviously .382 exceeds this. Just like your pal RC told you, you need to be UNDER this dimension.

To be clear, .390 to .383" would be a good measurement coming out of the 4th die, but NOT on the finished cartridge coming out of the 5th die. Follow?

For any cartridge to fall into and then back out of the chamber it MUST be smaller than .379" and this point is VERY rigidly fixed in eternity. It might just as well been included on the tablets Moses brought down. Thou shalt not exceed .379" !! Close just ain't good enough. This is probably the finest adjustment you've ever made in your life, but it has to be done. It might be a bit of a headache, but if you do it right and set your lock rings there it will be the last time you have to fool with it.

► OAL. Wonderful photo. Thanks ever so much.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=161582&d=1332593082

Generally speaking, new bullets can interfere with the chamber in 2 places....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dScRenzwZzE/Tz3NEksXtcI/AAAAAAAADOU/_pS6NKuOtrU/s800/Bullet%2520Shapes.jpg

Yours is striking on the ogive (like the example on the RH side in the cartoon) and is therefore remains much too long. Shorten the OAL by another .020" and try it again. You can never have the nose of the bullet resting on the rifling. It must be off by at least .005" on each and every round. Therefore (since all OALs vary by a small amount) you'll want the average cartridge to have from .010 to .015" clearance so that the longest cartridge you make still misses by some amount. Follow that ?

► Conclusion. Set the seating stem down another .020" and do the ink test again. AND Set die #5 down another 1/8 turn and try it again.

;)

[John_Q]

@walkalong - I did as you suggested. Tried 3 different depths, 1.063, 1.043 and 1.023 - first seater adjusted the depth, the second seater crimped. All 3 result in the pic attached. :cuss:

I'm beginning to think I have a faulty die!

Could it be my chamber is too tight to fire lead reloads? I"m going to go and get some FMJ on Monday anyway and try them out.

[rfwobbly]

Mr Q -

Lead is always more trouble for the novice reloader. Lead bullets are a larger diameter than plated or jacketed and can vary wildly in size. This is why I suggested you NOT start reloading with lead. You are simply piling trouble upon trouble. It's very much like taking up skydiving and parachute folding all on the same day. :p Not saying it can't be done, but you had better bring some aspirin for Excedrin headache #355. :D

Sometimes dies are bad. In the last 40 years I've had 1 faulty set. But the risk of having bad dies is extremely low with the new CNC equipment they use to make and inspect them. Therefore, based on the likelihood of possible error sources, let's return to the most realistic source of the issue at hand. With absolutely no malice meant or inferred sir, the number 1 source is the novice reloader.

Now back to your solution.


Hope this helps!

[John_Q]

rfwobbly - thanks for all the advice - I really appreciate it. Think I'll give up on lead and try jackets on Monday. I"m running in circles and starting to confuse myself.

Now I'm starting to question what S5 does - you said move it down an 1/8 turn - it doesnt seem to make any different if I move it down 1/8 or 5 turns, it doesnt seem to do any crimping.

As a test I took a used case, widened the mouth then went to station S5 and crimped it (without the bullet). No matter how many turns I give it it wont fit back into the chamber. After crimping it, its 0.383. As you said - thats not good enough.

[kingmt]

It must be a crimp die.

I don't know your load but if it isn't ejecting then the pressure is to low. Ether not enough powder or to long of a OAL. This is a tiny cartridge & a small difference in seating depth makes a big difference in pressure. From looking at your round it looks like it is to long.

[John_Q]

That could well be. I think the biggest problem I'm also having is I can't find any loading data for the bullets. So going to get some FMJ on Monday and then I will know what COL to use exactly. As rfwobby say's - for a beginner I"m poking around in the dark. Too much/too little crimp/incorrect COL etc etc.

I"ll report back on Mon :)

[rfwobbly]

Mr Q -

You simply don't understand the properties of the metal(s) you're dealing with. It's only a small matter of education. Luckily you're among friends. Just keep those payments coming and we'll answer all your questions. :rolleyes:

#1 Remember when I said to make a "test cartridge" ?? To form the brass you must have something to push against. An anvil, as it were. In this case the "something hard" is the bullet. You can't form the brass without a bullet in it. IOW, you can't form an empty case!

#2 The other problem is that when you taper crimp (say for instance) to .380", you can't stick it back in and move that same cartridge to .379". The brass simply "springs back" too much to allow small incremental changes. So you need to be working with a case that's maybe .005-.007" larger. Therefore if your last reading was at (for instance) .381" you'll need at least 5 new 'test cartridges' and 5 small die movements to get to the magic .376" that your pal RC recommended. Follow?

So you're probably trying to use the same case over and over. That simply won't work. Make 10 test units now. You can use your kinetic hammer to take them all apart later, and thereby recycle all the bullets and cases. So you're going to need to make up maybe 10 test cartridges to make these setting.

Under no circumstances confuse taper crimp with kissin'. In taper crimp MORE IS NOT BETTER. You want to be exactly between .378 and .376". That's the crimp diameter zone; no more no less. No lousy measurements allowed. No excuses accepted. No refunds made. No whining allowed. Batteries not included.

I'm looking forward to your first payment. Unmarked bills. Brown paper bag.

Thanks. ;)

[John_Q]

No wonder I've been having problems with an empty case :)

I follow what your saying about the brass springing back. I'll give it another bash tomorrow morning on 10 test cartridges and report back. (Maybe the night elves will bless all my brass) :p

Payment posted off :)

[beatledog7]

John Q--

For my CZ 75, some lead bullets have to be seated as short as .997" to feed and cycle properly. At that OAL I adjust the powder charge down (started at book minimum minus about 10%).

9mm rounds that short look a little funny, but they shoot just fine.

[John_Q]

For my CZ 75, some lead bullets have to be seated as short as .997" to feed and cycle properly.

Wow. ok. That's interesting. I'll also give that a bash tomorrow. They do look odd so I though something that short can't be right.

I"m armed with a some new ideas now - bright and early tomorrow I'll try again.

Beers are on me when I get it right :)

[Fatdaddy]

That looks like either a tight chamber issue being complicated by the oversized lead bullet. I guess it would be possible to have a bad sizing die but the chamber is more likely the culprit. I had a KKM bbl that had the same issue with lead bullets. It had a tight/match chamber that would take a fmj with no issues but a lead bullet being a little bigger, wouldn't chamber.
I opened the chamber up a little with a split wooden dowel chucked in a drill with some very fine sandpaper and oil. This would be my last resort though.

I think Lee will make you a custom undersized sizer for fairly little $$.

[918v]

Your bullets are too big in diameter. Your reloads won't chamber unless you seat these bullets so deep the case mouth overlaps the ogjive. Look at the middle round in rfwobbly's drawing. The area of the barrel between the chamber and the rifling is called the throat. If your bullets are say .357" in diameter and the throat is also .357" in diameter, the round won't chamber. You cannot drop same diameter cylinders into one another.

[Fishslayer]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=161540&d=1332528012

Is that a crimp groove forward of the lube?

ummm.... are you sure the bullets are 9mm .356" & not .38 .358"?

Definitely looks like it needs to be seated deeper.

[John_Q]

The bullets are 9mm .356 RN 115gr - Its on the box and I've just measured one. The length of the bullet is 0.534

Yes - that's a crimp groove. I crimped it too much. From the posts above I must only crimp it slightly. The problem is if I crimp it slightly then the round doesnt flush into the chamber. Sounds like I'll really need to seat them a lot deeper, especially if I need to get the case mouth to overlap the ogjive. I estimate the bullet will stick out 0.310

I'll try a few test rounds tomorrow at various depths.

[Rule3]

Wow, it should not be this difficult. Why a crimp groove on a 9mm semi auto bullet?? Sounds like a bullet problem. Do you have any FMJ or Plated with no crimp groove?

If in fact is is a 9mm LRN 115 gr bullet and you have a BHP or a CZ, they both have extremely short leades (chamber) the magic number for my guns with this type of bullet is 1.060 or perhaps a bit less. When seating this short, use the starting powder load. Put a light taper crimp as mentioned.

With the barrel out of the gun the round should plop in and fall out when turned over. If not seat a tiny bit more .

[John_Q]

@Rule3 - sorry, I meant the bullet has a crimp mark on it from me overcrimping it. On a new bullet there's no crimp marks.

I'm try the shorter depth and report back.

[rcmodel]

I'm having a really hard time figuring out how a 9mm taper-crimp die could put a revolver type roll-crimp groove in a lead bullet like the one in the photo??

rc

[John_Q]

Not sure - that's got me confused as well. If I turn the knob down then it really crimps the hell out it. Going to remove the crimping tomorrow on the 4th die and just seat the bullet and then use the last die to taper crimp it.

[kingmt]

I had a typo earlier. I meant it sounds like it isn't a crimping die. I also had in mind we were talking about a .380.

I don't want to start reading from top so is this a Luger or Browning?

[John_Q]

It's a browning HP handgun.

[rcmodel]

If I turn the knob down then it really crimps the hell out it.I guess that must be the Hornady die??
How about you throw it away and use the RCBS die to seat and crimp?

With the RCBS die:
Screwing the die body down increases the amount of taper-crimp.
Screwing the seater stem rod down increases the seating depth.

I have no idea what the Hornady die is doing??

Anyway, how did you come by this mis-matched set of dies?

Is it possible the RCBS die came out of a four die set that hasn't got a crimp function in the seater??
Is it possible the Hornady die is a roll crimp seater for something else??

I'm beginning to think maybe none of know for sure what you have mixed in the die assortment from different sets you are trying to use?

rc

[John_Q]

Its very possible - how would I confirm this?

I bought it 2nd hand and it came with the mismatching dies.

I'll just try using the RCBS die and see what happens. I've got loads of things to try out tomorrow :)

[kingmt]

I'm thinking the same as RC.

[oldreloader]

Some die sets even though for 9MM still have a roll crimp in them. Make sure the die you crimp with is a taper crimp die. I could be mistaken but I think some RCBS and Hornady dies have roll crimps.I know I have a Hornady that does but I crimp with a Lee.

[GLOOB]

Wow, it should not be this difficult. Why a crimp groove on a 9mm semi auto bullet?? Sounds like a bullet problem.
With a crimp groove, you can deflare (not roll crimp) the bullet in the same step as seating, without making lead and lube shavings. Well, you could if it was in the right spot for your desired OAL, anyway. I wish they all had a crimp groove. My MBC 200 gr RNFPs have one, and they allow me to load my 45ACP faster on my SS press.

[rfwobbly]

It's not that difficult on your second caliber, but sometimes it takes a while on the first. Just think about it. We have a newbie here with used equipment and and he's loading for a difficult gun. He's learning everything at once.

[Walkalong]

If I turn the knob down then it really crimps the hell out it.
I guess that must be the Hornady die??
How about you throw it away and use the RCBS die to seat and crimp?

Yep, the Hornady seater sleeve has a crimp surface that is much closer to a roll crimp than a taper crimp. They are almost worthless to taper crimp. They use the same crimp ledge in the 9MM seater sleeve as they do in the .38 Spl seater sleeve, and it roll crimps nicely. Hornady should change the 9MM sleeve to one with a taper crimp, instead of cheaping out and using the same sleeve for both.

Here is a pic of a lead bullet seated with the Hornady .38 Spl seater crimper. Original post here. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6257173&postcount=50)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=115026&stc=1&d=1265560315

[John_Q]

I think I'm losing my marbles - this seems like an impossible task. :(

I tried again this morning - I've completely removed the Hornady die. Then made 20 test rounds of a COL from 1.100 to a ludicrous 0.990
I've tried all of the with different crimp taper depths - all of them dont seat properly.

I put a marker around the brass and it rubs off on all of them at the mouth.

It's a no go with the RCBS die. How can it be this difficult? :banghead: At this stage I think I might just so and buy some new dies and get some FMJ's while I'm at it.

[Rule3]

With a crimp groove, you can deflare (not roll crimp) the bullet in the same step as seating, without making lead and lube shavings. Well, you could if it was in the right spot for your desired OAL, anyway. I wish they all had a crimp groove. My MBC 200 gr RNFPs have one, and they allow me to load my 45ACP faster on my SS press.
Those bullets were actually for the 45 Colt and can be used in 45 ACP. The OP is loading 9mm and has stated that the Crimp" groove" was created by him in over crimping the round. They did not have a cannelure to start with.

[Charley345]

John_Q

Are you measuring the diameter of the case mouth on your finished rounds? Are they at or less than .379" ?

Do you have any factory rounds that you can try the marker rub test on?

I know you are frustrated at this point. But once you get this figured out, you will have many happy years of reloading ahead of you.

Chuck

[Blue68f100]

Your gun has a tight chamber and the bullets your trying to use are oversize, not a good combination. To shoot lead you need to know the size of your barrel. Then pick a bullet that is 0.0005 to 0.0015 over that size. Lead is not easy to start out on like your finding out. But fit is every thing when it comes to shooting lead. Then the load has to be right to ensure a seal to prevent leading.

For now loose the lead. Load std jacketed bullets till you get comfortable and under stand the process better.

[918v]

Q,

In the pcs you posted the marker is rubbing off at the bullet nose, not the case mouth. What changed?

[918v]

Maybe you should go back to tue basics and prepare the brass one step at a time:

Size all the brass.

Flare all the case mouths.

Seat a bullet to say 1.1" OAL.

Crimp the round so the case mouth measures about .376"

Drop it into the chamber.

Either the bullet is too big or the throat is too tight. It's been known to happen.

[John_Q]

I'm going to go and get FMJ's tomorrow and see how it goes. I think your right - the lead bullets are too big. Previously I used the roll nose crimper on the Hornady and crimped it until it fitted. Not a good idea.

I've measured 3 factory round's - they are all 0.378, also measured 3 other types of factory rounds - all 0.379.

Mine all now measure 0.384, 0.385, 0.383 - as someone said a few posts above - this will not do...it will never ever work.

I'll get something like these? - or a different brand that I can source locally.
Remington Bullets 9mm (355 Diameter) 115 Grain Full Metal Jacket (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601144112/remington-bullets-9mm-355-diameter-115-grain-full-metal-jacket)

[rfwobbly]

Mr Q -
So if none of your seating dies can be counted on to provide you with a good taper crimp, then I highly suggest you order one of these dies (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274765/lee-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger).

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/274/274765.jpg

This is a pure taper crimp die, with no other adjustments. You can place this is the #5 position and it will deliver perfect taper crimps for a very low cost. I own 4 or 5 of these and they work extremely well. They will compliment your 3-die set by allowing you to use the last position for TC which gives you the best overall press performance.

Then use which ever one of your 2 seating dies you feel gives you the best bullet placement in position #4.

That should cure the issue.

[John_Q]

rfwobbly - thanks - that's not a bad option. Cheap as well. I'll first give the fmj's a go and then try a new taper crimp die. Maybe I should just order one anyone - its cheap :)

[rcmodel]

How about if you resize a fired case.

Then take a measurement of the case mouth.
What is it?

Don't expand & deprime it with the second die.

Then screw the RCBS Seating die down all the way against the shell plate and run the empty case in all the way.

Now measure the case mouth again.
What is it now?

Post the two measurements and we maybe can figure this out.

rc

[GLOOB]

Those bullets were actually for the 45 Colt and can be used in 45 ACP.
Figures. I love 'em. I guess there's little chance I'm going to find a .401" cast bullet with a crimp groove for my FNX!?

[John_Q]

Ok - some great news at last!!

First the case mouth size of a factory round that I shot - 0.351

I went out to buy FMJ's - 115gr - they measure 0.353

Without even resizing the mouth the bullet just slips in. Then putting that round (without even using the press) in, it plops into the chamber perfectly and falls out under its own weight!

OMG! Finally! ....does the dance of joy!

Now to use the dies and apply some taper but I dont think I will have any troubles from here onwards.

Thanks for ll the help guys - I really appreciate it.


To close - what can I do with those lead rounds that have been giving me hours and hours of trouble?....I'd like to melt them all down!

They are clearly too big (Or my chamber is too tight). Will they one day in the future magically work or are they useless to me. Does it mean I can't shoot lead bullets (Specifically these types) or do I need to look for another brand that is 0.353 or thereabouts (The ones I have are 0.356)

Just had a look on MidwayUSA - all the lead 115gr are 0.356? Guess I can't use those.
https://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=9mm+115gr+lead

For now I'll stay clear of lead and revisit them in 6 months to a year :)

[kingmt]

I would suggest you just hold on to them for a while.

You are going to run those through the sizing die?

[John_Q]

Going to expand the mouths and then the taper crimp die.

Just loaded a round - perfect! Never been so happy to hear the plopping noise :)

Its soooo easy now! :rolleyes:

[Rule3]

Figures. I love 'em. I guess there's little chance I'm going to find a .401" cast bullet with a crimp groove for my FNX!?
I use them for both 45 Colt and ACP. MBC put them in the 45 ACP section for the original XD's that would not feed SWC. The XDm will.

[rcmodel]

First the case mouth size of a factory round that I shot - 0.351
I went out to buy FMJ's - 115gr - they measure 0.353Now I think you have a defective measuring device.
I doubt anyone makes .353" 9mm bullets.

But regardless of that.
DO NOT attempt to load them without sizing them first.

Now to use the dies and apply some taper

A taper crimp is NOT what holds the bullet in place during feeding.
Case neck thension does that, and that come only from resizing the fired cases.

[John_Q]

Checked a few more bullets - .354 and .353.5. What should they be measuring?

Cool - I know I must resize them first. I got so excited the first one I resized incorrectly and the bullet dropped all the way in :)

How do I know if there is enough tension holding the bullet in place?

[kingmt]

.355 or .356" is what they should measure.

[918v]

I think your measuring instrument is off, or if you have a metric caliper then your math is off.

Or maybe I'm off and your bullets are .353". Who knows, different land, different specs?
One thing I want to add, if you didn't know it, Lee sells bullet sizing dies that work in a standard reloading press. They are cheap and you can size the bullets in .001" incrementsa until they fit your bore/throat like a glove.

http://leeprecision.com/new-lube-size-kit-.356.html

midwayusa sells them for $15 or so.

I have a feeling the bullets you measured are actually .355". I also have a feeling the lead bullets you think are .356" are actually .358". I have a feeling your barrel has a .357" throat. and this Lee sizing kit will give you .3565" bullets that will work. But first you should confirm your mearurements.

BTW, Lee will make custom die sizes for you if you ask.

[John_Q]

Thanks - I"ll look into the bullet sizing die - might be well worth getting.

Anything is possible at the moment. I'm just chuffed the fmj's work :)

[Fishslayer]

Now I think you have a defective measuring device.
I doubt anyone makes .353" 9mm bullets.


THIS photo really has me believing the original cast bullets are .358" slugs...

Ummm... OP... You DID zero your caliper, right?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=161582&d=1332593082

[GLOOB]

+1. Sounds like the OP has one of those special calipers that measure objects all the way down to -0.002. :)

[John_Q]

Just some feedback - I got some CMJ 124gr 9mm bullets - they load and shoot perfectly. No gun jams or anything. This is much more like it!! :)

[mingansr]

Now Lee has a seating and ROLL crimping die and that die is backed out NOT to crimp if, as I have, a Factory Crimp die is used. Don't know anything about r c b s dies, but have you guys figured out what kind of dies the OP in fact has? Just wondering

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

[rfwobbly]

Just some feedback - I got some CMJ 124gr 9mm bullets - they load and shoot perfectly. No gun jams or anything. This is much more like it!!


Well a happy ending at last !! :p

► Now comes time for some "damage control", to make sure this doesn't happen again. Good reloading comes from good measurements of both powder weight and physical size. Did you ever work out what was going on with the calipers? This is a game of hundredths of a millimeter or thousandths of an inch, so you must have accurate instrumentation to advance or achieve any bullet accuracy.

► If you are measuring in metric units that's OK. Just tell us and then we'll do the conversion on this end so that you'll get the exact message we're trying to send. We don't need you "believing" you understand. We need you to KNOW you understand.

;)

[Husker_Fan]

I load a bit for a hi-power and, to my eye only, those rounds look too long.