.500jrh?


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duckjihad
March 23, 2012, 04:08 PM
Saw this caliber quoted in another thread. What is it and who makes handguns for it?

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Loosedhorse
March 23, 2012, 04:18 PM
I thought this was a nice reference (http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/featured_handguns_hg_badbadder_200909/) that puts the .500 JRH in context.The .500 JRH revolver cartridge, designed by custom revolver builder Jack R. Huntington, was originally created specifically to allow use of a rimmed .50 caliber cartridge in the Freedom Arms Model 83 Revolver...

duckjihad
March 23, 2012, 04:53 PM
Thx loosedhorse. I've been looking into .50 cals. %reedom arms doesn't offer this cal that I can tell. Is it used in theire 500 wyoming like a 38 is used in a 357? Anyone have the specs? Id like a 50 cal with a length of 1.2 inches and a normal (?) Rim, not a recessed rim or belted case. Don't think I need a 500 s&w and like standard length cylinders. Is this it?

CraigC
March 23, 2012, 05:35 PM
The .500JRH was designed by Jack Huntington as a rimmed .50 caliber cartridge that would fit in the Freedom Arms model 83. FA already offered the .50AE so all that was needed for the JRH was a new cylinder. Both the JRH and the AE (along with the .500S&W and Wyoming Express) utilize the same ~.501" bullets, whereas the .500Linebaugh, which doesn't fit in the FA action, uses .512" bullets. Freedom Arms solved this by developing the .500Wyoming Express, which uses a belt instead of a rim. For all intents and purposes, the .500JRH, Linebaugh and Wyoming Express offer virtually identical performance. JRH cases are made by trimming .500S&W brass to 1.4". When makers other than Huntington chamber the round, it's typically referred to as the .500S&W 1.4".

I believe the only factory offering is the Magnum Research BFR, through their custom shop. They will also fit a JRH cylinder to a .50AE BFR.

IMHO, the biggest advantage to the JRH is that while it offers the power and flexibility of the Linebaugh, it allows the user to take advantage to the excellent selection of commercial .500S&W bullets, jacketed and cast. If I cast my own bullets, I'd opt for the Linebaugh.

eldon519
March 23, 2012, 05:53 PM
They do not show the .500 JRH BFR on the Magnum Research website, but it is in the PDF of their 2011 catalog in a 5.5" version with the "New!" label next to it. Prior to that it had been a custom shop only affair, and it may have returned back to that status. Hard to tell since MR hasn't put out the 2012 catalog, and they rarely update their webpage.

Walkalong
March 23, 2012, 07:53 PM
Until they come out with a ".50 Special" in a short case in a standard production gun, I am not interested in a .50, but y'all knock your selves out.

Yep, I'll be waiting a mighty long time I think. :)

Rodentman
March 23, 2012, 09:28 PM
Someone at a gun shop showed me a box of Corbon ammo in .500 spl. I didn't pay much attention since I wasn't interested. I don't see anyone making brass for it, and light loads in the .500 mag are not tough on the hands.

duckjihad
March 23, 2012, 10:26 PM
Thx guys. Good info.

Loosedhorse
March 23, 2012, 10:35 PM
Don't think I need a 500 s&w and like standard length cylinders. Is this it?I think then your .500 choices are .500 Linebaugh, .500 WE, and .500 JRH--even though some folks (http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/) do make .50 AE revolvers:

http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/image/gallery/M1917_Redhawk.jpg

For no particular reason*, I'd go with Linebaugh--though I like his .475 better.

*Okay. I am influenced that Midway lists factory ammo for zero .500 WEs, 3 .500 JRHs, and 9 .500 Linebaughs. By way of reference, they also list 13 .475 Linebaughs...

...and 40 .500 S&W Magnum loads. Go figure.

Prosser
March 24, 2012, 03:09 PM
The ammunition is available from JRH Advanced Gunsmithing.
http://www.jrhgunmaker.com/

His prices are reasonable for the ammunition and the conversion. I'd call for current prices.

Find a used FA 83, usually 454, for around 800 to 1000 dollars, and he'll convert it for another 500-600. You have a FA 83, custom, for around 1600 dollars in a caliber that is as much as most people want to shoot.

Yes, the .475 Linebaugh rim was cut down by Jack Huntington to fit into the FA 83 and this changed the standards for the .475 after a few lawsuits.

The BFR is a beautiful gun. In .500JRH it has as much punch as you'd probably want to shoot in a regular size gun.

The 'light' factory load of 440 grains at 950 fps is really fun to shoot, and penetrates like no tomorrow.

duckjihad
March 24, 2012, 11:18 PM
I like that idea. No particular need for a 50, but I want one, and God bless America, that's reason enough! Thx guys.

Prosser
March 25, 2012, 12:48 AM
There is a reason for a fifty. The wonderful legislature of Kali have outlawed over .500 caliber rifles. Handguns would be next.

Buy one, now, and the more people that own fifties, the better the base and ability to stop your state from taking them away.

No real threat from .50's in recorded history, but law writers want people to think they are doing something when they are not.

Secondary is another story. It's the basis for the second amendment.

Mandatory reading the founders reason for the Second Amendment.

skidder
March 25, 2012, 01:54 AM
I think then your .500 choices are .500 Linebaugh, .500 WE, and .500 JRH--even though some folks (http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/) do make .50 AE revolvers:

http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/image/gallery/M1917_Redhawk.jpg


:eek: WOW! that is one sweet Redhawk :eek:
Why did you have to show me that picture? Now I have to clean the drool off my keyboard.

Loosedhorse
March 25, 2012, 09:28 AM
You're welcome! :evil:

Prosser
March 25, 2012, 04:59 PM
To answer your question:
The belt on the Wyoming Express I'm pretty sure stops any other round from going in the chamber. Never had one, never will, so I don't know for sure.

My girls: barrel band is in .500JRH, 7.5" is .475 Linebaugh:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/FA83500JRH852010/GIRLS4LHPS852010copy.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/FA83500JRH852010/DSC_0033.jpg

Both are customs by JRH Advanced Gunsmithing. The .475 was done before FA offered that caliber, and has a match grade barrel, and drives tacks.

The .500JRH is a converted .475 Linebaugh FA 83.

eldon519
March 25, 2012, 06:16 PM
Nice guns Prosser!

How's the recoil compare between the two?

Prosser
March 25, 2012, 07:21 PM
Pretty much use the reloading data from the .475 L for the the .500JRH.
Case size is VERY close. Recoil is load dependent.

Average factory .475 load, 400 grains at 1350 fps, and I get all of that and a bag of chips out of that custom barrel. Recoil Energy of 37 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 27 fps. This load is easy if you are used to it.
My range master wanted to fire it. Like about 3 other experienced pistolsmiths he shot ONE round. He used the John Linebaugh technique and the hammer came about a 1/2" from going into his ear, on the far side from where the gun started. These loads are near double medium .44 magnum loads.

I have a LOT of 440 grains at 950 fps for the .500JRH:
Recoil Energy of 22 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 21 fps. Recoils like a mild .44 magnum, hits like a Ford truck, and penetrates like a gopher on speed.

Heavy JRH is 430 grains at 1350 fps:
Recoil Energy of 42 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 29 fps.
Hunting guys swear this kills like a 375 H&H.

Handloads for the .475 are minimum pressure loads of AA 9. 275 grain Speer HP's at 1560 fps:
Recoil Energy of 26 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 23 fps. This is my deer/varmit round. Tends to mess up a lot of meat, and leave a 4" impact hole. It's also my under the pillow load. Figure it wouldn't take many to convince anything/anyone to go the other way.

The FA 83 grip design, coupled with Jack Huntingtons' custom oversized grips for my large hands make these guns the easiest shooting big guns I've ever had. Better then my Seville in heavy .45 Colt with heavy loads.

I also find the grip for my hands is better then the Bisley on my Maximum.

For a warm up you just shoot the 525's at 1350 fps with the Bisley grip:Recoil Energy of 54 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 31 fps.

If your hand isn't split in two, the .500JRH and the .475L feel like .38's.:evil:

duckjihad
March 25, 2012, 10:38 PM
Nice weapons Prosser! What's the purpose of the barrel band? You mentioned BFR also. Do you have one. Impressions compared to your FAs please?

duckjihad
March 25, 2012, 10:40 PM
Also, how do your milder loads group in those guns?

Prosser
March 26, 2012, 05:35 AM
Barrel band holds the ejector in position under severe recoil. Besides Seyfried thought they looked cool.:rolleyes:

If your holster isn't designed for it when you pull the barrel band catches on the bottom of the holster.

Haven't shot the light stuff for groups. My eyes suck and at close range they are plenty effective and accurate.

I hate to say this, but they aren't 'nice'. They are works of ......art. Jack's work on a FA is about as good as anything gets that's revolver.

Perspective: a stock FA is 2000=2500. Take that, add one of the best customsmiths in the world work on top, worth another grand, at least.

I have a REAL hard time thinking of anything that's even close.

No disrespect intended.

OK:
BFR's are a Ruger on Steroids. EVERYTHING is worked over. If you order from the custom shop as a friend did, you can spend 1800 dollars for a custom BFR.
It would look like this:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/Socrates28/JACKS%20AND%20EDS%20GUNS/EdsRugervs.jpg
The gun on the right was custom configured for Jack Huntington, by BFR in .500JRH. I LOVED this gun. Recoil was easy, nice fat grips, since my hands are the same as Jack's.

That said, I AM looking for a .500JRH BFR for a discount price. I think BFR's are real close to FA 83 quality, for half the price.

If I find one, I don't know what I'll do, since I have FA's, custom by JRH, in the calibers I want.

CraigC
March 26, 2012, 09:18 AM
Until they come out with a ".50 Special" in a short case in a standard production gun...
There are two such cartridges but neither available in a production gun. The ".50Spl" is Bowen's creation and is nothing more than a .500Linebaugh cut to .44Spl length. Due to the low pressures, guns are less expensive to build. There is also the .500S&W cut to .44Spl length. Which, due to the smaller diameter and rims, actually fits in a five shot mid-frame Ruger.

Hammerdown77
March 26, 2012, 12:55 PM
Find a used FA 83, usually 454, for around 800 to 1000 dollars, and he'll convert it for another 500-600. You have a FA 83, custom, for around 1600 dollars in a caliber that is as much as most people want to shoot.


Dang, I need to start shopping in your circles if you're finding used 454 FAs for $800 to $1000!

duckjihad
March 26, 2012, 01:02 PM
My mistake Prosser. Nice works of <deleted> art.

Hammerdown77
March 26, 2012, 02:13 PM
He used the John Linebaugh technique and the hammer came about a 1/2" from going into his ear, on the far side from where the gun started. These loads are near double medium .44 magnum loads.

What is the Linebaugh technique? One handed, like in his video?

duckjihad
March 26, 2012, 05:42 PM
So what are the specs on the cartridge?

eldon519
March 26, 2012, 06:24 PM
By specs do you mean velocity or measurements or what?

Huntington says it can send a 420 gr at just over 1400fps. I think it's right about even with the .500 Linebaugh, maybe a tad lower on the totem than the .500 Wyoming Express. I think the Wyoming Express (~50,000psi) is loaded to higher pressure than either the Linebaugh (~35,000psi) or the .500 JRH (unsure). I think that is mainly because the Wyoming is only chambered in FA guns, and they use a very high grade steel and are probably stronger than the Linebaugh/Bowen/Huntington 5-shot converted Bisleys.

You'd have to split hairs to ever see a real-world difference, but I think even with the added PSI and consequent velocity, the Wyoming might not be at the top of the heap as expected, namely because the FA83 has a cylinder a little on the short side which limits how heavy you can go (for instance 525gr loads have recently gained some popularity for the Linebaugh). 440gr is the heaviest I see on Hodgdon's WE data, and if I had to guess, it's probably about as heavy as you can reasonably cram into the FA83 cylinder.

duckjihad
March 26, 2012, 09:03 PM
Whats the case length?

eldon519
March 26, 2012, 09:12 PM
I think it's 1.4".

Prosser
March 27, 2012, 03:48 AM
Sorry I didn't really answer your question. The BFR's are superb revolvers that take Ruger parts. I think the entire gun is now made of 17-4, ala FA. Prior I believe the frame was 17-6, cylinder 17-4.

You get a very high quality frame and cylinder with ruger parts working in the guns.
They are twice the price of a Ruger. They are easily twice the quality.

Good to great value.

Hammerdown: yes, single handed with the gun slightly angled, so the recoil takes it around in front of your face, towards your other ear. Or, just like he does it in the video on his website. He's the first person I've ever seen shoot big guns like that. Our range master was second.

Seems the Wyoming Express is pretty near identical, except for the belt, with the .500JRH. I believe the ammunition for the .500JRH is loaded to at least 45K, maybe the heavy loads a bit more.
I think Sundles used 297, a powder only available to professional loaders.

The problem at the upper end of loading this stuff is bullet creep locking the gun up.

Freedom Arms no longer loads ammunition so they don't have to worry about what your hand loads do: it's your responsibility to test and confirm they don't create problems for you. Depending upon how well you crimp, and how strong you are, bullet creep may vary from loader to loader.

Factory ammunition has to take that into account, and err on the side of safety.

Yes, 525's are possible to shoot out of the .500L, and, they are supposed to kill like Thor's Hammer at low velocity.

I have about 100 of them loaded in priceless .500 Maximum brass. It is unlikely I will ever shoot them. They are going at least 1350 fps and kill at BOTH ends.

Do you really NEED 525's? I mean if a 430 grain bullet at 1350 fps won't get it done you need a .416 Rigby or bigger to really kill any better.

eldon519
March 27, 2012, 09:13 AM
Prosser, WC297 was available until pretty recently on the surplus market. I have about 16lbs of it in my reloading room that I got about 3-4 months ago off of GI Brass. Keep an eye out and some more might come up. I have also heard that Alliant 300-MP is really similar.

Prosser
March 27, 2012, 10:06 AM
I'm not sure that's a good thing;)

Seems that bullet creep is more likely with 297 than H110 or 4227.
How did the 297 compare in price?

stormborn
March 27, 2012, 12:38 PM
You guys are making me think a BFR is going to be my next purchase, and probably in .500 JRH

eldon519
March 27, 2012, 01:41 PM
The price was good. If memory serves, it was just less than $100 per 8-lb jug. I can't recall if it was pulldown or virgin surplus; methinks it was virgin.

GI Brass does have WC820 for $100 per 8-lb right now. It is pulldown from .30 Carbine loads that is supposed to be loadable with H-110 data. It helps bring down the price on feeding those monsters. They've also got an 7.62x39 pulldown powder for the same price that mimics Accurate 1680 which I've seen data for in .500 S&W or .500 Maximum.

Prosser
March 27, 2012, 06:09 PM
"You guys are making me think a BFR is going to be my next purchase, and probably in .500 JRH"

Call MR and see what they price the gun at.

I know another guy that ordered a custom BFR like Jack's. It was about 1800 by the time he got it out the custom shop door. He might have been better off going the
FA 83 converted by JRH route.

This stuff changes on a daily basis price wise.

The .500JRH is supposed to now be a standard caliber offering from MR.

duckjihad
March 27, 2012, 10:15 PM
Can 500 jrh cartridges be fired in a 500 S and W chambered firearm? Can FA 83s chambered in 50AE be converted to 500jrh by having their cylinders bored out?

CraigC
March 27, 2012, 11:26 PM
You can fire .500JRH in a .500S&W. Unfortunately, .50AE guns need a new cylinder because the AE is too heavily tapered and wider at the base. You really want a good, snug, properly cut chamber in these guns.

stormborn
March 28, 2012, 07:16 PM
Call MR and see what they price the gun at.

I know another guy that ordered a custom BFR like Jack's. It was about 1800 by the time he got it out the custom shop door. He might have been better off going the
FA 83 converted by JRH route.

This stuff changes on a daily basis price wise.

The .500JRH is supposed to now be a standard caliber offering from MR.

I certainly will give them a call. Part of the draw of the BFR over FA is the price tag :)

I'm open to other calibers as well, so I'm sure the actual purchase will depend on any used pieces I find, etc.

Prosser
March 28, 2012, 07:24 PM
About 5 years ago CDN blew out their supply of BFR's for 500 each.

I didn't have the cash at the time.

Since then the only one I've found around here was 1000 dollars for a used .475 with the normal cylinder length.

They hold their value well in California.

CraigC
March 28, 2012, 09:55 PM
That was a steal on BFR's! I swear, if they were compatible with the Ruger Bisley grip frame, I'd have a couple of them.

Boxhead
March 28, 2012, 10:38 PM
That was a steal and I just missed out until a gent on another forum offered one up he did manage to get from CDNN with a second JRH modified grip frame and grips and four or five boxes of factory ammo for less than he had in the package. So for $750 I had quite a nice deal. I sold the original grip frame and black micarta grips I had found at a gun show and sent the rest to Alan Harton for a bit of tweaking. They really are a fine piece.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/boxhead61/M25-2andBFR022.jpg

mavracer
March 28, 2012, 11:51 PM
Bud's has one of the 5.5" 500jrh in stock for $840 now

Prosser
March 29, 2012, 01:17 AM
Boxhead that's a beautiful gun.

I found the grip size was more important then the Bisley or not.
The advantage of the Bisley was the grip length. I found the 'hump' pretty much pounds my palm. The FA grip distributes the recoil better over the entire hand on my hands.

I have no problems with either the BFR grip with custom grips made to my hand size, or the FA 83 grip with proper custom grips.

Not getting a BFR because you can't get it in a Bisley makes no sense to me.

While the Bisley grip is nice the FA 83 and BFR worked better for me with loads 45 ft-lbs and lower.

I've only tried the Bisley grip on loads more then that because the .475L and .500JRH are pretty much maxed out at 40-45 ft-lbs. The .500 Linebaugh and .500 Maximum and the S&W .500 allow heavier bullets and more recoil.

CraigC
March 29, 2012, 10:42 AM
Not getting a BFR because you can't get it in a Bisley makes no sense to me.
Because the Bisley grip is comfortable to me. The Super Blackhawk profile of the BFR is not. Simple.

eldon519
March 29, 2012, 10:54 AM
Craig,

Jack Huntington will do a BFR grip extension that makes the BFR more Bisley-like. I think it is around $350 maybe? I think that is what was performed on Boxhead's gun shown above. Just from the looks of it, it seems like it would be worth a try.

Here is another thread on a different board that has a picture of a gun with Huntington's treatment as well:
http://singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sas&action=print&thread=5570

CraigC
March 29, 2012, 11:48 AM
I appreciate the info but it's just not worth it to me just to spend $1500 to experiment with something I already know doesn't work for me. I've also probably spent my last dollar on high end stainless guns. I already have two stainless custom Rugers and one in hard chrome. If I could just buy a Bisley BFR .475 or .500 for $1000 it would be different. If I could've bought Bisley BFR's for $500-$600 from CDNN, I would've bought two. As it stands, it's just not something I'm interested in. I've got two more custom guns in the planning stages and both will be blued or blue/case colored Rugers. One of them will be an octagon barreled .500. It may even be engraved and I would probably never pay to have a stainless gun engraved. Nor would I spend $2000 to convert one to a big bore five-shot. In the end, the custom Ruger will cost a lot more than a BFR but it will be exactly what I want.

Boxhead
March 29, 2012, 12:56 PM
Exactly why I jumped on the BFR. I have $700 in it. It was a bargain.

Prosser
March 29, 2012, 03:25 PM
Craig:
You ever tried fat custom grips on that frame?
I have large hands and it works for me.

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