What kind of MG is this?


PDA






jim in Anchorage
March 24, 2012, 01:48 AM
RPM seems high. 1000?
http://www.youtube.com/profile?src_vid=Vk95ZL9ImdA&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_649907&user=funker530

If you enjoyed reading about "What kind of MG is this?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
AZ_Rebel
March 24, 2012, 01:52 AM
M249 saw

dprice3844444
March 24, 2012, 01:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun

jim in Anchorage
March 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
Thanks all. Sure wish I could buy one!

PercyShelley
March 25, 2012, 09:41 AM
I think there are pre-86 transferable minimis or M249s, but they are extremely rare and expensive.

303tom
March 25, 2012, 09:57 AM
That is a 249 !

essayons21
March 25, 2012, 10:49 AM
Thats embarassing

sniper762
March 25, 2012, 05:23 PM
wasting all that ammo! good gun....piss po operator

baylorattorney
March 25, 2012, 06:08 PM
600 rounds not enough for that gunner. SMh. Im a lawyer and coulda lent more fire support to that team with that SAW. lol. :)

baylorattorney
March 25, 2012, 06:23 PM
Rapid rate of fire - 120rpms or 2rds every second!!!! 200rd belts 5.56mm

mgregg85
March 25, 2012, 06:25 PM
I have no experience but I am curious, what was he doing wrong?

baylorattorney
March 25, 2012, 08:18 PM
He was very excited and his field of fire was all over the place, notice he was hitting the left wall of the compound. In gaming they call it spray and pray. He didnt set himself up firmly. At the outset of a firefight when surprised i imagine this may happen a lot. There is the fear of being overrun, etc. You don't know where the enemy is so you just want to send lead downrange quickly at first until you set up your fields of fire or get a bead on your target. He did his job.


Waste not want not. :)

Avenger
March 26, 2012, 12:03 AM
Suppressing fire! You throw out as much of a wall of lead as you can in order to interfere with the enemies shooting until you've established your base of fire, then you can begin moving on them.

Only criticism I can make is that his muzzle discipline was poor (but excusable in combat) and he dropped the muzzle into the dirt a couple times, even with the bipod legs forward.

USAF_Vet
March 26, 2012, 12:18 AM
My least favorite weapons that I was trained on, the M249.

Aside from transferable ones, I heard about a semi-auto version. Not sure if it is available, but for the cost of one, (rumored to be about 12k) you could pick up a transferable M-16.

As a lefty, I hated it and I could only hit the broadside of a barn.

R.W.Dale
March 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
Thats embarassing







wasting all that ammo! good gun....piss po operator

You guys don't have a clue.

Do you think machine guns are used in fixed positions mounted on auto traverse mechanisms covering ranged fields of interlocking fire like its still 1916 on the western front?



Fire and maneuver has been our primary combat tactics for almost a century now. We learned it from those crazy Germans. They used it to great effect in a little conflict called wwII. The mg provides suppressive fire so the infantry can maneuver on and engage the enemy.




posted via mobile device.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 26, 2012, 12:36 AM
You guys don't have a clue.

Leave it to the armchair commandos. Firing a weapon in modern combat is not what it's like in the movies.

baylorattorney
March 26, 2012, 01:28 AM
Leave it to the armchair commandos. Firing a weapon in modern combat is not what it's like in the movies.

Modern Combat? Is that COD4? Lol. Jk. Of course not. Actors get paid a whole lot more.

Usertag
March 26, 2012, 01:36 AM
M249 SAW
5.56x45mm NATO
900 RPM

armysniper
March 26, 2012, 01:38 AM
I was an automatic rifleman. IE saw gunner in an infantry squad.

Here it is in a nutshell, your platoon leader/lieutenant tells you to suppress fire. So that is what you do. If you dont send lead because you dont exactly know where the fire is coming from then you disobey a direct command.

His seamingly wasteful use of ammo actually does supress the enemy. It also draws them out or distracts them. Because then they do the same thing firing until they reveal their position. Once their position has been revealed then you can use another squad to flank their position or better yet call for close air support or indirect fire/artillery support.

And one last thing, since they are on patrol they are only reacting to contact. If they were instructed to make hasty defensive fighting positions then their squad leader would assign the two saw gunners fields of fire. But since the area they seemingly were firing from was only a spot where they took cover during their patrol. There is no tactical value to create hasty fighting positons assigning fields of fire.

12gaugeTim
March 26, 2012, 01:51 AM
I am definitely not the authority on this. I'm 16 and I don't plan on going into the armed forces at all. But it doesn't take much common sense to tell me that whoever he was shooting at, probably didn't have much of a notion to peek around and shoot back.
Pause at 2:04 for a laugh. I wonder what's on his left hand.

FIVETWOSEVEN
March 26, 2012, 01:53 AM
Modern Combat? Is that COD4? Lol. Jk. Of course not. Actors get paid a whole lot more.

Modern Combat refers to how war is fought today, we aren't sitting on a line gunning down Jap after Jap during a charge with machine guns.

paintballdude902
March 26, 2012, 03:33 AM
theres a few out there that are transferable. same with miniguns. alot of people claim that dillon has one of the only legal ones but thats wrong. mike dillon has alteast a half dozen of them as he owns dillion precision and they make miniguns. one of my basic aerial gunner instructors went to the armorer classes there and said he had a bunch of them including one mounted on a UH-1.

sgtstryker
March 26, 2012, 10:40 AM
The Marine Corps is going back to their AR roots in the fire-teams, using a rifle vs SAW in order to increase mobility of the squads. They will keeps lots of SAW's within the Corps itself, they feel the new rifle will sustain fire as well for it's intended purpose. I believe CO's will still be able to use what they feel is necessary to complete the mission, tho. The SAW is a great weapon but does tend to wear itself out..especially goin' John Wayne with it.....

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 26, 2012, 11:02 AM
Combat is not bench rest shooting at the range. You don't finish up and go check the bodies to see who got the tightest group with the fewest shots. In addition to what armysniper said about it possibly being an order to lay supressive fire, which is true, it also comes down to this:

Expend a moderate amount of ammo-->Enemy may live, and shoot my buddies

OR

Expend a lot of ammo-->Increase chances of killing the enemy, and saving my buddies lives.

Heck yeah I'll burn a couple 200rd drums of saw ammo if it means the squad tasked with maneuvering has even one less insurgent to deal with. There is always more ammo. This isn't WWII where whole divisions are scrounging just to find enough ammo to give each rifleman a few stripper clips. It's likely that this was a patrol out of a COP where there is plenty of ammo. Blow it off while finishing the mission, get more for the next mission. Lives trump ammo any day. I'd shoot 200, 2,000 or 2,000,000 rounds of SAW ammo into a hillside if it means my buddies have a better chance of not getting killed on their mission.


Also, Taliban like to spread out. The blend in well, shoot from a distance, rig up their own machine guns to fire by wire. This looks like an ambush where a handful of insurgents are dug in fairly well in the hillside, spread of pretty far. They grew up in this country and they know how to shoot, move, and escape quickly. If you want to see someone trying to take well placed individual shots or small burts, look of Designated Marksmen videos. SAW gunners are there for support through "volume of fire". That means putting a lot of rounds around the enemy, to pin them down, cut down on their cover and concealment, and give other soldiers a chance to move in for the real kill. Or depending on their air/artillery support situation, sustained fire can keep the enemy pinned down while air support takes them out.

I don't think any Americans died during that engagement. And that means his shooting was just fine. And notice they do start getting stingier with their ammo as the run lower.

1911fan
March 26, 2012, 12:16 PM
As an old M-60 gunner, all I have to say is that I think he spent WAY too long at that first position. That sort of thing just begs for an RPG.

Since I wasn't there for the briefing, I can only assume that these guys are providing suppressive fire so their other element(s) can move.

If possible, he should have picked out two or three positions to fire from. I know this doesn't always work because you just don't have the time, especially during a counter attack, but the more often you fire your distinctive weapon from one position, the better the chance is that you, personally, will be engaged by superior weaponry.

Just my tuppence,

ed

blazer610
March 26, 2012, 02:20 PM
Fabrique Nationale M-249 SAW is available from OMB Guns for $5225 and the M-249 Paratrooper version sells for $5100. Available to FN Law Enforcement dealers only. Stated cyclic rate of 775 RPM.

Murphy4570
March 27, 2012, 02:34 AM
Do you think machine guns are used in fixed positions mounted on auto traverse mechanisms covering ranged fields of interlocking fire like its still 1916 on the western front?

Lord I hope not, for the sake of the soldiers. Having to lug around a big water cooled HMG like the M1917 Browning or the Vickers takes about a whole squad of men. Great guns for fixed positions, damn hard to use on the tripod when on the move.

hang fire
March 27, 2012, 07:31 AM
The improvised USMC .30-06 stinger MG was a bad one, IIRC, 1200-1400 rpm.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&tok=WnNo60D_NQuaCZ82ArY-QQ&pq=lost%20in%20siberia%20(1991)%20(original%20sound%20w%2Fo%20subtitles).%20part%208%2F8.youtube&cp=12&gs_id=1k&xhr=t&q=ww2+stinger+machine+gun&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=ww2+stinger+&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=8d0707b5d33fafe2&biw=960&bih=487

Ragnar Danneskjold
March 28, 2012, 12:45 AM
Do you think machine guns are used in fixed positions mounted on auto traverse mechanisms covering ranged fields of interlocking fire like its still 1916 on the western front?

Some are, or at least can. The M2 and the Mk19 both can use a standard traversing and elevation mount which can be locked for specific fields of fire. I think the 240B and even the SAW can be mounted this way too though I've never seen it. We never really train with that stuff anyways since combat in Afghanistan is very fluid. Fixed positions aren't really used all that much, unless it's a tower or a shooting position on a Combat Outpost. I personally never got stuck doing perimeter security so I'm not sure how their guns were set up. But when I deployed we never used the traditional T&E for our guns. We either carried them and used the built in bipod like in the video, or we had vehicle mounted guns. A few had the CROWS system, which basically is a remote operated turret from inside the vehicle. Cool idea but crappy when it breaks.

essayons21
April 3, 2012, 08:18 PM
You guys don't have a clue.

I have a few clues. Been in similar situations overseas, and I train soldiers stateside. It is fine and dandy to admire the courage of the soldiers in the video, and I certainly hold no sort of ill feelings towards them, but for those of us who have been in those situations and will be going there again, critiquing poor combat performances is necessary.

The SAW gunner was by far one of the best of the bunch. My only critique was he should have slowed down his rate of fire well before he realized he was down to a 100 rds.

Many have mentioned that he was doing the right thing by suppressing so his squad could maneuver. He did a great job of suppressing, his squad did a terrible job of maneuvering. Judging from the sound of the incoming there were about 2-3 enemy combatants, who successfully pinned down at least a squad for about 20 minutes, before finally forcing them to withdraw. That is embarrassing to anyone who wears the uniform or has any pride in our nations fighting forces.

The worst part was the riflemen, equipped with ACOGs no less, who did not take advantage of the SAW gunners suppression to acquire, identify, and engage the targets. I often mock the "hadji" firing position when giving basic rifle marksmanship classes. The two riflemen in this video provide perfect examples of this position, firing blindly over their heads while not even attempting to aim the weapon.

jim in Anchorage
April 4, 2012, 06:56 AM
It is important to note the site I linked to has switched over to a different video. Original comments do not apply to the new one.
Addendum : God that river looks like Alaska.

ErikO
April 4, 2012, 01:23 PM
Yep, considering how much it costs to modify an AR-15 for belt feeding, it's cheaper to get a Pre-86 M-16.

I'm just looking forward to when the Stoner rifles end up as C&R bait... lol

I really hope the Hayes Amendment isn't around in 2035 and I still am. ;)

If you enjoyed reading about "What kind of MG is this?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!