Ran Into A Snag Here


PDA






ObsidianOne
March 25, 2012, 04:52 PM
So this is my first batch of reloading I'm doing. Brass has been tumbled, deprimed, cleaned the primer pockets and now primed. What I'm wondering about now, is the powder charge to use. I've checked my Lee book and it makes no mention of Unique in their recipes. I checked Alliant's website and they only list 3, and only one of which are for 115 grain bullets, and it only has one powder charge, no min or max. I'm a bit confused, I'm using Unique powder, Winchester primers, and Berry's bullets 115grain round nose copper plated.
It's also got me thinking as it says barrel length on Alliant's recipes, do I have to adjust for each length of barrel I use? I'm using an LC9 and I was wondering if that was just to achieve the listed velocity or whether your powder charge change based on the barrel length?
Should I be going by the OAL they list on their recipe as well? 1.125"?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ran Into A Snag Here" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
918v
March 25, 2012, 05:04 PM
When I ran Unique, I used 5.7 grains under a Speer 125gr JFP loaded to 1.125" OAL. You can use that as a starting load for your 115.

ObsidianOne
March 25, 2012, 06:18 PM
How long ago did you use Unique? It's my understanding that it was reformulated and the load data is different now? As long as I stay below the 6.8 gr listed on their site for the 115 grain bullets I should be fine, correct?

justinpar
March 25, 2012, 06:34 PM
5.5gr is listed at 1168fps for 115gr and unique. This comes from their 2004 manual. You can find this manual in PDF format online or pm me with your email and I can sent it to you. Personally I would start at 5grs and work from there.

sbrader
March 25, 2012, 06:40 PM
Remember that plated bullets do not use the same load data as jacketed bullets.

918v
March 25, 2012, 06:42 PM
I used Unique just after it was reformulated.

GLOOB
March 25, 2012, 06:55 PM
When only one charge is listed, it's the max load. Just back off 10% for a reasonable starting load. If you're using plated bullets, go by the manufacturer recommendation as to whether to use cast or jacketed data. With a Berry's 115 gr, I'd think 5.7-6.0 grains would be the sweet spot.

I'm using a target of 6.25gr behind a 115 gr Zero JHP. I already had that charge set for my 230 gr 45ACP loads. Works great in my Glocks. Shoots to point of aim and is very accurate. OAL of 1.125".

ObsidianOne
March 25, 2012, 08:12 PM
Thanks guys, I think I'll go on the safe side and start at 5 grains and work my way up :)

moxie
March 25, 2012, 08:26 PM
The front page of the Alliant reloading website says:
" REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.
The exceptions to this are the loads listed as "target" in the 38 Special and 45 ACP data tables."

AND, this is from the Berry's website that also should be reviewed:

"Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads."

You need to get in the habit of reading ALL the instructions in reloading guides/manuals. You could get hurt if you don't.

The Speer and Lyman manuals have lots of Unique/115 gr. bullet loads you can adapt to Berry's bullets using the guidance from the website noted above. Buy them.
The "front matter" of these manuals has loads of info on ballistics and reloading in general and should be read by anyone getting started in reloading. This will answer many of the questions we typically see from new guys on this and other sites.

The barrel length has no bearing on your load development except you should note that velocity typically goes up with barrel length. What that means to you is that your very short LC9 barrel will experience lower velocities given the same charge weights as those from a longer barrel.

I hope this helps. Please don't take offense at my direct response to your questions. This is a serious business that demands the full attention of those who do it.

And, BTW, the load data for Unique has not changed based on the reformulation to a "cleaner" powder.

Twmaster
March 25, 2012, 08:38 PM
Curious... My Lee 2nd ed. lists Unique at 5.1 to 5.5 for 115 grain jacketed pills.

rcmodel
March 25, 2012, 08:42 PM
It's my understanding that it was reformulated and the load data is different now?It was reformulated to make it cleaner burning a few years ago.

But the burn rate was not changed.

Unique has been the same powder since it was first made 112 years ago.

The only thing that has changed data over the years is the methods used to measure pressure.
And we have many more lawyers now..

rc

ObsidianOne
March 25, 2012, 08:51 PM
Moxie, I did not take that the wrong way, as your intention is very clear. I appreciate the concern and am thankful that you are looking out for me.
Though I have already read both disclaimers, and I have purchased the Lee second edition already, perhaps it can't hurt to have a couple other books on the shelf :)
I am merely just trying to double check what I already though, as I am extremely cautious by nature.

Twmaster, I too have the second edition and the only mention I see for 115 grain 9mm Luger is under the 115 gr XTP bullet?

Thank you rcmodel, I did not know that, just that it was reformulated :)

Twmaster
March 25, 2012, 10:09 PM
Twmaster, I too have the second edition and the only mention I see for 115 grain 9mm Luger is under the 115 gr XTP bullet?

My copy, page 532 says jacketed. The listing for the 115 XTP does not show but 4 loads. None with Unique.

That's curious.

1SOW
March 25, 2012, 11:04 PM
The LEE page 532 data will work and be very conservative.

ObsidianOne
March 26, 2012, 10:42 AM
My copy, page 532 says jacketed. The listing for the 115 XTP does not show but 4 loads. None with Unique.

That's curious.

I'll triple check when I get home, but I'm fairly certain I had quite a few recipes for 115 XTP. I'll see if I can't snap a picture when I get home.

crracer_712
March 26, 2012, 04:02 PM
When using plated bullets, be it Rainiers or Berry's, I've just used the start load and up to about half that of max load, on data listed for jacketed bullets.

rcmodel
March 26, 2012, 04:14 PM
Alliants data only shows the MAX loads.
Reduce 10% for the starting load.

5.5 Unique and Berry 115 makes a great load.

rc

ObsidianOne
March 26, 2012, 08:23 PM
Yeah page 532 is 38 Special loads in my book, page 505 is where my 9mm Luger loads start.
RC, what OAL should I have with the 115 grain Berry's and 5.5 of unique?

Twmaster
March 26, 2012, 10:15 PM
I load my berry's 115's to 1.125"

1SOW
March 26, 2012, 10:24 PM
The LEE page 532 data will work and be very conservative.
My copy, page 532 says jacketed. The listing for the 115 XTP does not show but 4 loads. None with Unique.

My bad.
The 2011 LEE update must have changed the data.

My older 2nd edition LEE had "Jacketed 115gr ", 5.1 to 5.5grs at 1.120". No specific bullets.
Performance will vary some depending on the length of the bullet and resulting seating depth.

Uncle Richard
March 26, 2012, 11:06 PM
Obsidian.....

I don't reduce my loads by 10% when using copper coated bullets (maybe 5%). I am sponsored by popular bullet manufacturer in IDPA.

If your interested, try a cleaner powder, such as winchester WSF. I like Unique, its a good, accurate powder, but it's dirty. WSF is clean and doesn't leave a big puff of smoke when shooting, and it meters exceptionally well. Trust me, I shoot thousands of rounds a year and its a fantastic powder.

ObsidianOne
March 27, 2012, 08:48 PM
Really? I had heard just the opposite about Unique. Heard it's really versatile and is clean as well.
What does WSF usually retail for?

Thanks for all the responses guys, I'm curious, 1.110" chambers really well in my gun and that's what my first run of reloads went (haven't shot them yet) and have been told I can go down as low as 1.090" and still be 100% safe, would 1.110" be fine? Just triple checking before I go shootin' :)

rcmodel
March 27, 2012, 08:57 PM
RC, what OAL should I have with the 115 grain Berry's and 5.5 of unique?
5.5 Unique + 115 berry RN + seated 1.120" + crimped .376" works perfectly in my SIG P6, S&W Model 39, and Springfield XDc.

I can hardly imagine it wouldn't work as well in anything else.
It's like a factory load!

rc

coalman
March 28, 2012, 12:06 PM
Under a 124gr plated bullet I've run 5.2gr (of the "new") Unique to about 1210fps. So, with a 115gr plated at proper OAL you'd certainluy be fine starting there at the very low end for sure.

ObsidianOne
March 28, 2012, 03:45 PM
But would 1.110" OAL work or is that seated too low?

oneounceload
March 28, 2012, 04:03 PM
I checked Alliant's website and they only list 3, and only one of which are for 115 grain bullets, and it only has one powder charge, no min or max


Alliants data only shows the MAX loads.
Reduce 10% for the starting load.

5.5 Unique and Berry 115 makes a great load.

There ya go......;)

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

1SOW
March 28, 2012, 11:50 PM
If you shorten the "published" oal .02" and use the "published" load data, you will increase the case pressure an unknown amount. This can be especially dangerous in the upper load range.

My recommendation is to stay with the published data from any reliable company. Alliant, LEE, or other published data.

ObsidianOne
March 29, 2012, 12:22 AM
If you shorten the "published" oal .02" and use the "published" load data, you will increase the case pressure an unknown amount. This can be especially dangerous in the upper load range.

My recommendation is to stay with the published data from any reliable company. Alliant, LEE, or other published data.

This would be .015" shorter than the published OAL for a HP, no listings for RN on Alliant's website. I'd be loading at 5.0gr of Unique, which is much lower than the max, should this be fine or should I just use the OAL listed for hollowpoints?

ArchAngelCD
March 29, 2012, 12:38 AM
Such a slight difference in OAL will seat the bullet deeper in the case but since you are using the starting powder charge that will be perfectly safe. If you were uo at the top of the charge range it could be a problem but not in your case.

If 1.110" cycles in your pistol every time that's the OAL you should use.

1SOW
March 29, 2012, 12:52 AM
Starting low, I agree.
Good-to-go.

ObsidianOne
March 29, 2012, 01:16 AM
I don't plan on exceeding 5.5gr at the very max, as I'm using plated bullets(I expect to stay at 5 if everything is peachy of course). I shouldn't expect any issues with that OAL either, correct?
Thank you very much Archangel.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ran Into A Snag Here" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!