Weapons issued to Army Rangers...


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marksman13
March 26, 2012, 09:46 PM
I was in the Army for eight years and served a year long tour in Iraq. I've been around an awful lot of soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen, to include Special Forces. I've seen the weapons they carry and have only seen M9s, M4s, M16s, M14s, M21s, M24s, Bennelli and Mossberg shotguns, .50 cal Barrett sniper rifles and varioua crew served weapons. That's pretty much the sum of what I have actually laid my eyes on in country and in training stateside.

My question to the board is whether any of you know of any Ranger units that were issued Kimber 1911s and/or MP5s? I've never seen or heard of these weapons used by Rangers. I have heard of MP5s and Kimbers being issued to Marine Corps units and PSD teams, but I have never heard of these firearms being in the hands of Rangers until today. I've got a co-worker that swears he was an Army Ranger sniper and was issued at various times throughout his career a Kimber Desert Warrior and an MP5 to go along with his standard issue weapons.

The guy has a propensity to lie about certain things. I don't call him out and probably won't. I figure if he's lying about his service then he's the one that has to live with it. And to be honest, he may be telling the truth about the weapons he was issued. His lying about other things just causes me to doubt the veracity of these claims.

What does THR have to say? Some of you guys have seen more than I have and have a better idea of what the more specialized units are using.

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infmp32
March 26, 2012, 09:53 PM
My initial instinct is that it smells like I might wanna put my rubber boots on for this one. Claiming to be an Army Ranger Sniper that carried super awesome unique weapons is an immediate red flag. Ask him what Ranger unit he was with, when he went to RIP, when he went to Ranger School. If he gives BS answers to that, then you know you got him. Worse comes to worse, and if you really want to know if he's full of it, ask the armyranger.com forum if you can get in touch with anyone that could verify someone's service as a Ranger. They don't take kindly to poser types over there.

But right off the hop, it sounds like a load of bull to me.

razorback2003
March 26, 2012, 10:19 PM
I've only heard of personal weapons used as M4 and Beretta 9mm. I'm sure if some wanted a Sig 228 that is possible.

I haven't heard of Rangers using the MP5 or Kimber 45.

marksman13
March 26, 2012, 10:31 PM
I've independently verified that he was an Army Ranger. It's the sniper part of it and the non-standard weapons pill that I can't swallow. He's an overall nice guy. He just likes to exaggerate about things. I would rather prove him right than wrong.

Gtimothy
March 26, 2012, 10:44 PM
I knew quite a few sailors who were in the teams when I was in the Navy. I actually spent range time shooting some of their weapons, one of which was the MP5. But they were SEALs not Rangers so not sure there. The guys I knew were very quiet about what they did and carried on deployment. ;)

Your buddy sounds to me like a wanna be. I've met a few and I've called them out when they go too far! If we had as many "Special Forces Snipers" as there are people bragging about being one, there wouldn't be any other job in the military. :rolleyes: Ask for proof, I would! If he really was a Sniper in the Rangers he would be able to tell you the Month, Day and Year he graduated Sniper school as well as be able to show you his "Sniper AND Ranger" Tabs!

You served your country and I'm sure you did it with pride. By letting this guy lie, you are cheapening your service because he is free to make up stories about things he knows nothing about! I worked for a guy who bragged about being in Special Forces and all of the missions he went on but when push came to shove, he couldn't even tell me what rank/rate he was.:rolleyes: After he was outed, he never brought it up again, at least not around me! :D

bikerdoc
March 26, 2012, 10:50 PM
Those that say dont know, those that know dont say.

Google Ranger Creed and quiz him.

marksman13
March 26, 2012, 11:08 PM
Honestly, I don't believe anybody's lies could cheapen my service. I know what I've done and nobody can take that away, but I can understand why some people take it very personally.

Chindo18Z
March 26, 2012, 11:37 PM
Well, he might be embellishing a bit, but...

I served in 2/75 and we had MP5s. Mostly MP5SD (the suppressed model). Since the early 80's. Still have them today (as far as I know).

I carried an M21 while I was there and don't think I could have humped another long gun along with all the other crap on my back. My spotter normally carried a CAR-15 (XM-177E2) with an M203. It's quite possible that later TF Ranger (Somalia)/OIF/OEF sniper teams started using suppressed MP5s for backup (and shooting dogs and goats quietly).

I am personally aware of more than one SF ODA carrying Kimbers procured through USSOCOM channels (which actually surprised me, as my Group uses military 1911A1s modified by in-house gunsmiths). Just hadn't seen Kimbers in Army SF holsters up till then. The teams with the Kimbers were from a different Group.

Certain Ranger Regiment elements on detached duty downrange are tasked with very unique missions and have been occasionally equipped with other-than-MTOE (Substitute Standard) weapons. They get those weapons through the same channels as SF get theirs.

So...yes, it's possible that he was issued the weapons he claimed.

marksman13
March 27, 2012, 12:03 AM
Chindo18z, that's what I'm looking for. I want to believe the guy and I know there are channels to through for other than standard issue weapons. Our boss has been to the range with him and says he can't shoot for crap. May be out of practice? May be never was a sniper.

Chindo18Z
March 27, 2012, 12:07 AM
Honestly, today...I can't shoot for crap either. Certainly not as expertly as I was once able to.

I'd need several days (weeks?) of practice with a sniper weapon system to get back in the groove. Haven't touched one in some time.

Sniper marksmanship is a perishable skill.

texgunner
March 27, 2012, 12:15 AM
There are a lot of wanna be posuers out there. I'd quiz this guy and see if you can catch him in a lie.

I knew a sailor years ago who was going into submarines as a sonar operator. He was medically discharged before he finished his MOS school and within two years of leaving the service he was telling people he was a SEAL. If pressed for details he would claim it was "classified."

allaroundhunter
March 27, 2012, 12:16 AM
Marksman13 and Chindo18z, thank you very much for your service, I have nothing but the utmost respect for servicemen and women and veterans, you deserve many more thanks than you get.

And Chindo, I always enjoy hearing about your time in service, it answers many questions that I don't even know I have.

Again, thank you and God bless

marksman13
March 27, 2012, 12:53 AM
Chindo, I didn't realize how perishable until this week end. We moves from a house with 40 acres, to house very close to an urban area. I went from shooting several hundred rounds of 22LR per week and a hundred rounds of 308 per week, to zero rounds per week for the past two years.

I can still hit anything I want within a few hundred yards, but ask me to do range estimations a bullet drop compensations past about three hundred yards and see how far that gets you.

Truth be told, all my unit had was designated marksmen, but due to insurgent activity and lack of school trained snipers in Al-Anbar province we got a crash course, one week class in country and pressed into service occasionally. We never got the kind of training we should have. Hell, three of our five M21s didn't survive the first twelve weeks of our tour, but we made due. Nothing but respect for those of you who survived sniper school. You boys are tough as nails and smarter than most folks give you credit. Thanks for your service.

Allaroundhunter, thank you, honestly.

allaroundhunter
March 27, 2012, 12:58 AM
Hell, three of our five M21s didn't survive the first twelve weeks of our tour

Marksman, are you saying the weapons themselves didn't survive or were lost, or the soldiers issued them (if you don't mind me asking)?

Chindo18Z
March 27, 2012, 01:12 AM
allaroundhunter: Thank YOU for the kind words. It was an honor to serve and a privilege to be with the guys for all those years, but I'm just a (recently) retired old fart now. :)

marksman13: I learned my gun/scope by going through an internal unit course...just like you. Our guys who were qualified snipers (many of them having done that job in Vietnam) set it up and ran us through a multi-week trainup. I didn't actually get to attend a formal sniper school until after I got to SF.

I still love that rifle (M21). But, as you noted, they weren't really the best thing for rough use. The ART scopes we had were even worse (for durability), especially the ART IIs. Later we mounted the same Leupolds we used on M24s. Much better. In any event, glass bedded rifles and Infantry work are kinda mutually exclusive concepts. ;)

marksman13
March 27, 2012, 01:26 AM
Allaroundhunter, the rifles themselves did not survive, but that is another story for another day. Basically, our rifles were worn out when we got them.

SimplyChad
March 27, 2012, 01:47 AM
I was about to say I know the guys in the 75th batt can just about anything they want. I also know that at my Bgd there is one MP5 in an arms room for someone one on PSD.

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