458 Lott loads for "flat" shooting ballistics vs 375 H&H & 30-06?


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charlie echo
March 27, 2012, 04:40 PM
To gain comforting profiency with this thumper, I'd like to handload and shoot 100s of 458 rounds and use it to hunt, along with my 308 bolt rifle, deer, hogs, & elk.

Although most huntng shots will be well under 150 yards, I wonder if the 458 Lott loads can be crafted into 2,700 FPS, resembling trajectories of 308 or 375 H&H: 458 bullets in 350 grain has sectional density of .238, not far off from a 308...

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rcmodel
March 27, 2012, 05:09 PM
If the 458 Lott loads can be crafted into 2,700 FPS, resembling trajectories of 308, 30-06, or 375 H&H. No, not really.
To get that velocity would require very light for caliber bullets.

Which would have a very low ballistic coefficient.
Which would start out fast and slow down & drop like a nerf ball.

You want to shoot 1,000's of rounds of .458 Lott huh?
You might refine your rifle shooting skills more & faster with something that didn't kick you down through the elastic in your shorts & give you a wedgie every shot.

rc

SimplyChad
March 27, 2012, 05:14 PM
Or destroy your shoulder.

charlie echo
March 27, 2012, 05:39 PM
Attitude and skill manages recoil when shooting in "hunting" positions, not sitting on a bench -- an unrealistic way to train for battle or hunting

Late Jeff Cooper's daughter manages 458 WM shooting fine. I think I might be OK, considering my background.

Haxby
March 27, 2012, 06:01 PM
A 300 gr Barnes TSX might have about the same BC as a 308 180 gr RN. At 2600 - 2700 fps, it should work on deer.

charlie echo
March 28, 2012, 12:05 AM
I see it's possible...

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=1766&caliber=.45&caliberid=26&header=.45%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data

But I wonder if anyone is selling hard cast 350 grains....for the practice rounds

Grumulkin
March 28, 2012, 12:02 PM
I don't think shooting proficiency necessarily involves shooting "1000s" of rounds. There are those who bang away at tin cans, etc. with no real game plan as to what they wish to accomplish. I also don't think it's necessary to shoot thousands of rounds with a 458 Lott to gain shooting proficiency with a 458 Lott. There are plenty of cheaper to shoot cartridges that can be used to gain said proficiency.

I have no doubt that a 458 Lott will send a bullet several hundred yards; even a 500 gr. bullet; but beyond about 300 yards, the trajectory will be such that you will have to be very precise on range estimation. If you want lighter bullets, Speer makes a 350 gr. jacketed bullet that works well for me. Also various other .458 caliber bullets are available that are intended to be used in things like the 45-70 or 458 SOCOM. You'll find though, that the lighter bullets all tend to be the round or flat nosed versions which aren't the best for long range shooting.

charlie echo
March 28, 2012, 12:12 PM
I don't think shooting proficiency necessarily involves shooting "1000s" of rounds. There are those who bang away at tin cans, etc. with no real game plan as to what they wish to accomplish. I also don't think it's necessary to shoot thousands of rounds with a 458 Lott to gain shooting proficiency with a 458 Lott. There are plenty of cheaper to shoot cartridges that can be used to gain said proficiency.

I have no doubt that a 458 Lott will send a bullet several hundred yards; even a 500 gr. bullet; but beyond about 300 yards, the trajectory will be such that you will have to be very precise on range estimation. If you want lighter bullets, Speer makes a 350 gr. jacketed bullet that works well for me. Also various other .458 caliber bullets are available that are intended to be used in things like the 45-70 or 458 SOCOM. You'll find though, that the lighter bullets all tend to be the round or flat nosed versions which aren't the best for long range shooting.
Like golf, guitar, or a language

Frequent smart practices improve proficiency, to get know to know a rifle in varied conditions.

shooting 1000 rounds of well aimed 458s will cost over $4,000... that's a lot of cash to be blown through just one rifle.

This is one rifle that may reward well to hand load: to save cash and for versatility. And a useful backup/supplement rifle to a M1/M1A/M14SA.

Pop
September 8, 2012, 10:24 PM
I load my 458 Lott Ruger #1 with the 350 TSX and the 300 TTSX.

Velocities are 2820 and almost 3000 fps respectively.
Now these bullets do not have the BC of say, a 180 gr 30-06 bullet but trajectory is quite similar.

BTW elk hate those loads!

Walkalong
September 8, 2012, 11:40 PM
I have a .458 Win Mag, and I'm confident in my ability to hit with it at up to 300 yards.(We have some 15 (maybe 18) inch steel gongs set up at our 300 yard range where I shoot.) I did not have to shoot hundreds of rounds of .458 to get proficient with it. I have shot thousands of rounds in my life becoming a proficient shooter, and that is what it takes. It doesn't all necessarily have to be with the caliber you are shooting right now. You simply need a good understanding of its ballistics, and have shot enough of it to be good familiar with it. If you can shoot your .06 well, you can shoot a .458 well. Anyone can ignore the recoil for a few shots. For hunting, you don't need a lot of shots.

I did not buy a .458 for light bullets and speed. 350 Gr is as low as I'll go, and they can't be driven fast enough to be considered flat shooting. :)

bfoosh006
September 10, 2012, 12:14 AM
... not to mention the 10's of thousands of 45/70 bullets rainbowed across the sky. I think you should have no problem being successful at those distances, with the added velocities.

As a fluke I raised the ladder sight on my 45/70 , set it at what I thought was a good height and fired... first shoot hit the 250 yard 18" gong. 405 gr Rem flatpoint at 1800ish fps.

MEHavey
September 10, 2012, 12:42 AM
I'm fascinated that anyone thinks a 350gr 458 anything has ballistic coefficient even approaching that of a run-of-the-mill 308.

Closest I could come w/ the G1 SAAMI standard for 458 was
325gr Hornady FTX with a BC of 0.230

By comparison for the 308,....
150gr Hornady SST InterLock with a BC of 0.415
150gr Speer BTSP has a BC of 0.417
165gr Speer BTSP runs a clean 0.52

With the "standard" 270gr 375, you are approaching 0.480 as a BC.

There's a reason that the 30-06 pushing a 165gr and the 375 pushing a 270gr -- both at 2,700fps -- are considered a "matched pair"

918v
September 10, 2012, 12:56 AM
According to Barnes, their .458" 300 and 350gr TSXs have BCs similar to .224" varmint bullets. So if you want to match your .308 you'll have to get a .460 Weatherby ;)

ArchAngelCD
September 10, 2012, 02:43 AM
To gain comforting profiency with this thumper, I'd like to handload and shoot 100s of 458 rounds and use it to hunt, along with my 308 bolt rifle, deer, hogs, & elk.

Although most huntng shots will be well under 150 yards, I wonder if the 458 Lott loads can be crafted into 2,700 FPS, resembling trajectories of 308 or 375 H&H: 458 bullets in 350 grain has sectional density of .238, not far off from a 308...
Sorry but when I think 458 Lott the words flat shooting and 300 yards just don't come to mind. That caliber is usually associated with very big game and distances under 100 yards.

If you're going to shoot a 300/350gr bullet why punish yourself with a 458 Lott when the 375 H&H will shoot those bullet weights just fine. Even the 416 Rigby will shoot a 300/350gr bullet much flatter than the 458 Lott.

I'm only making these suggestions because you picked a caliber that was not designed to do what you want to do and you are negating the design by using very light bullets.

Captcurt
September 10, 2012, 08:37 PM
... not to mention the 10's of thousands of 45/70 bullets rainbowed across the sky. I think you should have no problem being successful at those distances, with the added velocities.

As a fluke I raised the ladder sight on my 45/70 , set it at what I thought was a good height and fired... first shoot hit the 250 yard 18" gong. 405 gr Rem flatpoint at 1800ish fps.
I was think of the same thing. Many (almost all) American Bison fell from these bullets and their rainbow trajectories.

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