Out of 231


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MoreIsLess
March 28, 2012, 10:52 AM
I have been loading 230gr 45ACP FMJ/RN using 5.2 gr of Win 231. I just ran out of 231 and they don't have any more at the LGS. Can someone recommend something comparable to 231 and a load to go with it. I have some Bullseye but I think it's kind of dirty and I will probably keep it for .38 DEWC loading. Would prefer something that is no flaky and produces acurrate metering.

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cfullgraf
March 28, 2012, 10:56 AM
Did they have HP-38? Identical to W231.

Wil Terry
March 28, 2012, 11:22 AM
HOW SURELY glad I am to have thirty pounds of commercial grade 231 left in the last fifty pound keg I bought a few years ago. Better than money in the bank, Yessirree !!!

shinyroks
March 28, 2012, 11:32 AM
I use sr-4756, 7.5 gr behind a 230. That powder is often left behind on the shelves after all the others are gone, if it is carried in your store to start with.

btw, do not mistake it for sr-4759. that is for 45/70s and 454 rifles...

remember, my loads, my guns, work up to them and be safe. Back them up with a look in your cookbook...

i guess it is a flake, but meters very well through my thrower for being such.

David E
March 28, 2012, 11:39 AM
I use sr-4756, 7.5 gr behind a 230. That powder is often left behind on the shelves after all the others are gone, if it is carried in your store to start with.

Exactly why I bought some. What velocity does that load give you?

shinyroks
March 28, 2012, 11:45 AM
At work, so I'll let you know when i get back to my info. Been a while since I chronied it, but I think I it gives me around 960 with cast RN sized to 452 out of my Remington R-1911.

sellersm
March 28, 2012, 11:50 AM
As has been mentioned, HP-38 is the same. I'd recommend you try WST if it's available in your store.

From Winchester's load data:
230 GR. LRN Winchester WST .452" 1.200" 4.0gr (min) 776 14,300 CUP 4.3gr (MAX) 812 16,400 CUP

ArchAngelCD
March 28, 2012, 01:47 PM
There is no way I would use another powder than W231/HP-38 for my .38 Special or .45 Auto ammo. IMO it's the best powder for the job. If it were me I would find some instead of changing powders.

rbernie
March 28, 2012, 01:51 PM
I thought that Zip was also HP38/231?

ArchAngelCD
March 28, 2012, 01:54 PM
I thought that Zip was also HP38/231?
That has been rumored but not confirmed by anyone in "the know" from what I've read. The fact both are made in the St. Marks plant, both are fine ball powders and both use very similar charge weights does lend itself to them being the same.

BullfrogKen
March 28, 2012, 01:55 PM
ArchAngelCD, have you tried AA #5 before? Back during the Great Shortage I could sometimes find a pound or two of it on a shelf when the W231 and HP-38 were long gone.

kingmt
March 28, 2012, 02:23 PM
That has been rumored but not confirmed by anyone in "the know" from what I've read. The fact both are made in the St. Marks plant, both are fine ball powders and both use very similar charge weights does lend itself to them being the same.
Hodgdon says they are the same & i would put them in the "know" group.

I'm surprised you think Bullseye is dirty in 45ACP unless your running the charge to low.

Galil5.56
March 28, 2012, 03:55 PM
I have been loading 230gr 45ACP FMJ/RN using 5.2 gr of Win 231. I just ran out of 231 and they don't have any more at the LGS. Can someone recommend something comparable to 231 and a load to go with it. I have some Bullseye but I think it's kind of dirty and I will probably keep it for .38 DEWC loading. Would prefer something that is no flaky and produces acurrate metering.

If you can not find HP-38, maybe give AA#2 a try.

tarakian
March 28, 2012, 03:58 PM
I would recommend Titegroup.

oneounceload
March 28, 2012, 04:02 PM
How about buying a large jug or two of 231 since you seem to like it? The hazmat, spread over 16 pounds is cheaper than sales tax, and if you order from Graf's or similar, the shipping is free

BullfrogKen
March 28, 2012, 04:02 PM
Titegroup is pretty horrible on cast bullets. It runs hot, and makes a huge amount of smoke with lead bullets as a result.

zxcvbob
March 28, 2012, 04:10 PM
Green Dot is pretty much interchangeable with Titegroup but doesn't have that problem. (from my testing, International Clays *is* interchangeable with TG, but only in low pressure cartridges, and YMMV.)

When the local gun store is out of everything else, there will probably be one dusty pound of Green Dot on the back of the shelf.

Blue68f100
March 28, 2012, 04:45 PM
WST is way cleaner than 231 and produces tighter groups too. WSF works good too.

Rule3
March 28, 2012, 05:48 PM
What's wrong with Bullseye. Only the original 45 ACP powder??

If you don't like that try some Win Auto Comp.

tarakian
March 28, 2012, 07:45 PM
Titegroup is pretty horrible on cast bullets. It runs hot, and makes a huge amount of smoke with lead bullets as a result.

OP stated he is using FMJ.

BullfrogKen
March 28, 2012, 08:15 PM
You're right.

I saw this

.38 DEWC

and thought lead rounds. My bad.

jelenko
March 28, 2012, 08:36 PM
Go modern. Powder Valley http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

jim147
March 28, 2012, 09:28 PM
Alliant Promo.

jim

ArchAngelCD
March 28, 2012, 09:59 PM
ArchAngelCD, have you tried AA #5 before? Back during the Great Shortage I could sometimes find a pound or two of it on a shelf when the W231 and HP-38 were long gone.
Yes, I have used AA#5 but not a lot. I tried it in the .45 Auto, .45 Colt and to duplicate Speer 135gr .38 Special +P ammo.

I like it in 2 of the 3 calibers I tried it in but wasn't able to find an accurate load for the .45 colt. Since I'm happy with HS-6 and W231 in the 45 Colt I didn't go any further with AA#5.

bubbacrabb
March 29, 2012, 03:56 AM
I agree with ordering it. I got 16 pounds of hp38 and 20k primers from Wideners and the price was cheaper than I could get it in the stores shipped to my door. Plus gas is 415 a gallon and I dont really have a local gun place so saving myself a 100 mile trip makes it a lot more economical to have it shipped. I like HP38/Win231, but I dont know if I like it anymore than Unique. I've also never had this metering problem, and Unique was clean for me

777TRUTH
March 29, 2012, 04:12 AM
Galil5.56
If you can not find HP-38, maybe give AA#2 a try.

Just picked up a pound of AA#2 as a possible alternative to HP-38. Haven't shot it yet but will this weekend.

tkcomer
March 29, 2012, 07:04 AM
When I ran out of Win 231, and couldn't find any, I bought True Blue as that was another powder that had load data in all the calibers I shot. From 38 Special to the 44 Magnum.

bds
March 30, 2012, 12:07 AM
During the last shortage when W231 and even HP-38 could not be found, Alliant Green Dot was suggested as a viable substitute for W231. When I range tested Green Dot, I found I needed to use about .2 gr more than W231 for comparable loads.

As many suggested, if you can find HP-38, I would just buy the 8 lb container of it and be happy.

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