[ChiefPilot]

I stopped at Galyan's today to pick up a box of CCI Green Tag for my Ruger Mk II. While I was waiting at the counter, another customer was asking a clerk about the .45s. The clerk said they are ok, but the ammunition they use is, and I quote, "exotic".

I guess you learn something new every day :rolleyes: .

[Mike Irwin]

And it would appear that that clerk can lay claim to an "ic" of his own...

Idiotic...

[Kodiak AK]

Might have been a new Glock in .45 GAP Mike. I haven't even seen a round of ammo in three different shops .:o

[ChiefPilot]

Might have been a new Glock in .45 GAP Mike. I haven't even seen a round of ammo in three different shops.

It's interesting that you mention that - I asked for two boxes of Gold Dot .45s at the range a few weeks ago, and after I paid as I was walking out, I notice that they're both .45 GAP. I hadn't heard of that before, and the clerk behind the counter said it's a new and improved. I asked for a swap anyway, since I knew .45 ACP was the real stuff and didn't have a clue what GAP meant. So, at least one place in the country has it!

[Moparmike]

I dont know for sure, but will a .45gap even fire in a .45acp chamber? I thought the GAP was shorter than the ACP.:confused:

[esheato]

I'm sure the GAP would fire in an ACP chamber. Heck, people manage to fire off .40 SW in a ACP. I'm sure it can be done!

Although, I'm sticking to the tried and true...only shoot the ammo intended for your gun.

esheato....

The .45 G.A.P.: Why We Have a New Caliber
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/45gap.defend.htm

Calling the 45GAP a “short .45ACP” is a misnomer since the ACP and GAP cases are quite different, both inside and outside. The GAP has an entirely new design. Unlike the .45ACP, the .45GAP case rim is slightly rebated (smaller diameter) so it can be easily extracted/ejected from a 9mm size pistol. In other words, the extraction cannelure width is optimized for the 45GAP case length and web profile, giving a 10 degree difference in the lead-in angle. The GAP internal case wall profile is different than the .45ACP in order to seat bullets without bulging the case. And the GAP case uses a small pistol primer, which puts distance between the primer and breech/action elements in 9mm frame pistols.

Trimming a .45 ACP case to make a short cased 45GAP is a bad idea for a number of reasons. Most ACP brass uses a large primer which would over ignite the powder in a cut down ACP case causing severe high pressures. And since the GAP case has a very different internal taper, trimmed ACP brass would bulge since the bullets are seated significantly lower than in a regular sized ACP case.

Can a 45 GAP be fired in a .45 ACP barrel? Under certain situations it might work but is not recommended. Both calibers headspace on the case mouth, but the short GAP cartridge cannot reach the chamber headspace index in an ACP barrel. Since both calibers have a similar external taper, the GAP might seat in the chamber correctly for the firing pin to ignite the primer as expected. If not, the primer could be pierced by the firing pin, or the firing pin may not have sufficient force to ignite the primer. Instead, buy an aftermarket .45GAP barrel if you really want to use a .45ACP pistol, especially if you have already invested in the latter. I understand Bar-Sto plans on jumping into the GAP business.

BTW, kinda funny...same story going on at 1911Forum.com.

Here is the LINK (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=72428)

[blades67]

Also, the .45 G.A.P. is loaded to SAMMI +P pressure so the little round can achive velocities similar to standard pressure .45 ACP.

[gbelleh]

Would there be any advantage in getting a .45 GAP barrel and shooting .45 GAP out of a .45 ACP gun?

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

No. The whole reason for the GAP is for small hands (the grip is smaller). The GAP, although shorter, is designed to have the same ballistics as the 45 acp. Since the 45 acp you have has large grips, then there is no advantage to the shorter GAP.

I notice that they're both .45 GAP. I hadn't heard of that before, and the clerk behind the counter said it's a new and improved

Note to self. Check all ammo.

[Majic]

I asked for two boxes of Gold Dot .45s at the range a few weeks ago, and after I paid as I was walking out, I notice that they're both .45 GAP.
I stated in a earlier thread about the .45Gap cartridge that this situation would probably occur, but really didn't think it would happen this quick.

[Mike Irwin]

I'll stick by my first theory, that the counter guy was an idiot...

[BluesBear]

Most ACP brass uses a large primer which would over ignite the powder in a cut down ACP case causing severe high pressures.
:scrutiny: Oh Puuleze :scrutiny:

The Winchester Win-Clean and CCI Clean-Fire .45acp cases both use a small pistol primer. Therefore when I reload them using standard primers I am under igniting the powder? Notice that the flash holes for large and small primers are the same. Unless you use magnum primers you won't have any noticable pressure difference.

And since the GAP case has a very different internal taper, trimmed ACP brass would bulge since the bullets are seated significantly lower than in a regular sized ACP case. If you're seating bullets that deep you won't have any room for powder.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=798834

If not, the primer could be pierced by the firing pin, :rolleyes: And just how would this be accomplished? :rolleyes:

If the firing pin doesn't pierce a .45acp primer it won't pierce a .45gap
primer either.

[esheato]

Blues,

I'm just passing on what I read.

Although, I've never heard of over-igniting the powder before I read the article I posted.

esheato...

[only1asterisk]

Not to belabor the issue, but many small pistol primers are tougherthan their large pistol counterparts (same cup material, smaller diameter). Also, many small pistol primer have a "hotter" spark than large pistol primers. I think you can rest easy in regards to "overignition".


David

[BluesBear]

esheato, I never thought for a moment that it was you pontificating that rubbish. From your posts I get the impression that you are intelligent. Especially regarding your comments on the other GAP/ACP thread.
In fact your advice to "only shoot the ammo intended for your gun" are words to live by. It ranks right up there with the 4 rules.

I just didn't want anyone else to think that website was 100% accurate.

I have watched that GAP website grow and reading it always makes me chuckle.


Good points Only1*

And once again I am in agreement with the upwardly mobile Mr Irwin.

[Tamara]

:rolleyes:And just how would this be accomplished?:rolleyes:

The same way pierced primers often happen: headspace issues. In this case, headspacing on the extractor when the extractor is a little sloppy. The case gets driven forward against the hook, the cap busts and drives the case back against the breechface where it is met by a firing pin that usually has rather generous amounts of protrusion on your average 1911. BTW: pierced primers and titanium firing pins don't get along too well, FWIW.

[Sisco]

What happens if you load 45GAP in a 45ACP? Apparently it turns your 1911 into a jam-o-matic.
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72428

[whm1974]

Greate, when I get around buying ammo I'll double check to make sure I know
what 'm getting.

Bill Meadows

[Gewehr98]

Instead, buy an aftermarket .45GAP barrel if you really want to use a .45ACP pistol, especially if you have already invested in the latter. I understand Bar-Sto plans on jumping into the GAP business.

Maybe 1911 owners who also have a .45GAP Glock? Or a 1911 owner who just happens to like shorter, more expensive ammo?

I don't get it. I shouldn't have built a .45ACP Mauser carbine, I should've used a .45GAP reamer. ;)

[Ironbarr]

New to GAP so it's a safety thing w/me and friends... what other calibers does this come in?

Thanks.

-Andy

[Bainx]

I didn't know this.

A favorite saying of Johnny Carson, as I recall.

Tamara, you were missed at the gun show on Saturday!:p

[esheato]

I never thought for a moment that it was you pontificating that rubbish. From your posts I get the impression that you are intelligent.

That's quite a compliment. Especially from someone as knowledgeable as you.

I just didn't want anyone else to think that website was 100% accurate. I have watched that GAP website grow and reading it always makes me chuckle.

That website is the only data that I can find on the GAP. I would have posted factual stuff if I could have found any :rolleyes:

esheato...

[Baba Louie]

Ironbarr
Right now the .45 GAP is a Glock creation for their model 37 only, tho I'm sure Taurus must have made plans to ruch something into production... being the leading (smirk) cutting edge company they are.
Just make sure it says "ACP" on the box unless you shoot the G37.

[Ironbarr]

after hunting all over, I finally found what G.A.P means... Glock Automatic Pistol.

For those, like me, who didn't know, http://www.winchester.com/marketing/newitems/whatsnew.aspx

-Andy

[tcdrennen]

Springfield is showing a XD in .45GAP at the SHOT show - I guess they don't want to impinge on their 1911 sales by offering a .45ACP XD (which I might buy if it ever did come out.)

I won't buy a .45GAP by any mfr. Another answer to a question no-one asked. :evil: :scrutiny: :fire:

[Kodiak AK]

tcdrennen
The round has the potential
to be huge out side of the States . A few countries count 45 ACP as a military caliber that thier citizens can not use .
I do agree we have no need for this round stateside . Glock realy dropped the ball on the Model 37 .:banghead:

[BluesBear]

Ironbarr I guess you didn't read the link posted by esheato. Therein is stated;
Initially, Glock called their new prototype caliber the “.45 Glock”. When it was submitted to SAAMI (Sporting Arms & Ammunition Manufacturer’s Institute, Inc), the caliber name was changed to “.45 G.A.P.” (.45 Glock Auto Pistol).

[kernal_panic]

i dunno this round has that whole .41 action express feeling to it.

[Kodiak AK]

kernal_panic :D

[Ironbarr]

You're right - I didn't "link", I guess.

My real interest was to inform a friend who has just started shooting and has a new to him H&K in .45 that he'd best be careful buying ammo. Of course, it also tweaked my neck hairs too to be careful.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

-Andy