You seen anything like this?


Sig Bill
March 29, 2012, 06:37 PM
I bought three boxes of Win 9mm PDX1 124 +Ps and as luck would have it on the first round I racked in the slide didn't go to battery. Upon inspection I saw something unusual and going through the boxes I found 4 more making it 5. (

A good round in my Sigma barrel (

And now the bad (

Even the tips look different (

What do you think guys? A 38 special bullet pressed in a 9mm case?

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March 29, 2012, 06:49 PM
That's as good a guess as I can make from info avail. Can you extract and mic 'em?

Sig Bill
March 29, 2012, 08:18 PM
I wish I have a mike, I'm gonna have to buy one. I did weight them though. I used my sis's calorie scale and weighted all five against 5 good ones because I figured that the differences will be multiplied but they're the same. Of course that won't be accurate really.

March 29, 2012, 09:59 PM
That does appear to be what they look like. That's weird man. I've never seen that before. Hmmmmmmmmmm :scrutiny:

March 29, 2012, 11:28 PM
It sounds like a nice call to Winchester is in order. If that is in fact the problem, the whole batch will likely have to be recalled.

March 29, 2012, 11:30 PM
Yea, way different nose profile on those. Very clear why they won't chamber. I'd pull one and mic it too.
.355 = 9mm.
.357 = .38/.357

Sig Bill
March 30, 2012, 11:03 AM
I did send an email to Winchester but they didn't respond. I googled the company to see if there anything similar but I ran across this interesting article. It says that Winchester is having a dispute with the union and the members. It's about relocating so I don't know what's the outcome.

So is it sabotage or poor QC? Only your manicurist knows. ;)

March 30, 2012, 11:31 AM
Pull a couple of the bullets in question, mic 'em and weigh 'em on a hand loader's scale. If you don't do that you're simply guessing. All my 9mm guns (BHP, G26, G17, G19) are perfectly happy with .358" cast bullets. Accuracy is outstanding and of course no leading. I've fired .357 jacketed in all of them with very good results, but stick with .355" jacketed because others who shoot them might not have the same chamber and bore dimensions I have.

All my 9mm bores slug between .357" and .358", but all bores and chambers are not built alike.

March 30, 2012, 12:29 PM
I just grabbed .38spl 9mm and 40S&W of this brand which is what I currently carry just by looking at your third pic posted my 38spl looks like the one one the left and the 9mm and 40cal look like the one one the right. Yep a call to Winchester is in order. Thanks for posting now I get to go dump a few mags and inspect a few boxes of ammo if I find anything similiar I'll post here with pics.

March 30, 2012, 04:51 PM
Looking at the five cartridges on the left in the first photo it appears as though they are bent. They just seem to "lean" away from perpendicular while the two rounds on the right seem to stand true.
Could they have been bent in some fashion such that the case base is NOT perpendicular to the case bore axis?? Or is it just the table top isn't flat?

Sig Bill
March 30, 2012, 05:12 PM
Yea, the desk top isn't perfectly flat. It's a stainless steel desk and it has some kind of coating and it has become wrinkled.

March 30, 2012, 06:02 PM
Yet another great argument for loading your own self-defense ammunition. Let's see: in the last couple of weeks we've seen defective cases going Kaboom, primers that don't pop, and rounds that will jam and disable your gun if you chamber them, from the factories.

So much for the: "You can only depend on factory ammo" dogma.

Sig Bill
March 30, 2012, 06:17 PM
There's a flaw in your logic, you don't make the powder and the primers. :)

March 31, 2012, 02:41 PM
To 'Sig Bill', on my advocating loading your own SD ammo for reliability:
"There's a flaw in your logic, you don't make the powder and the primers. :)"

Yes, but I do check every primer to make sure there is priming compound and an anvil present.
I do check every case to make sure there is a flash hole, and it's clear of brass debris.
I do weigh every powder charge to 0.1gr., so that there are no squibs or overloads.
I do check every bullet I seat, so that they are all the same type.
I do testfire 10% of every box of SD ammo I load, so that I know it works.

In other words, if the factory could put the same care into every round they loaded, reliability would be way higher than what we are currently experiencing. And the cost would be 5X higher.

Sig Bill
March 31, 2012, 02:58 PM
So you can see stuff like that. Ok, you're right. :)

March 31, 2012, 03:04 PM
Union made. There's the problem.

Sam Cade
March 31, 2012, 03:14 PM
IIRC Winchester hasnt been a union shop since 2006.

Edit: I was wrong. Since 2010

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