disturbing response from Senator...


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spartacus2002
February 14, 2004, 09:39 PM
Question to ask yourself before reading below: How long has Dept of Homeland Zekurity had us under a Yellow "elevated" Alert? Seems like since they started the color coded system right? Here's the chart to help your memory.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=29


I had recently sent a letter to Senator Warner R-VA about the AWB and about plans for BATFE to keep permanent records of the yellow forms we fill out when we make firearms purchases. I told him this was a bad idea and to please make the bad men stop :cool:

I got a response in which he gives the usual hoop-de-la about "I strongly support the constitutional right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. However, as a father and grandfather, I also support public policies that ensure the responsible and appropriate use of guns."

(Depends on the meaning of "infringe" and "shall not be infringed" I guess)

He also says that he agrees with me about the BATFE keeping those records, and says that before Jan 23rd of this year, ATFE was keeping the records for 90 days. He goes on to say that Under the FY04 Commerce, Justice, and State Appropriations bill, signed Jan 23, 2004, the law now requires the ATF to destroy the approved background check records within 24 hours.

WOW! The good guys won, right?

Not yet.

He goes on to mention that last May, Sen. Lautenberg introduced the Homeland Security GUn Safety Act. It would suspend the 3-day rule for background checks of firearms transactions during code Yellow or higher. It would also require the federal govt to retain ALL firearms transactions during code Yellow or higher terrorist threat ratings. AND, fed.gov can KEEP retaining records until the threat level is below Yellow for 180 consecutive days.

Have we EVER been below Yellow since 9/11?????

Looks like Big Bro might be able to have it both ways and backdoor us citizens. THOMAS says the bill is in the Judiciary Committee. Might wanna call/write your Senators and woof at them about this one, just to be safe.

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7.62FullMetalJacket
February 14, 2004, 10:07 PM
:cuss: :fire: :banghead:

I feel like the dike is bursting ALL THE TIME. And I only have 10 widdle fingers (well, 8 widdle fingers and 2 thumbs).

What does a Form 4473 have to do with the FEDERAL THREAT LEVEL (as stoopid as it is)?

Sen. Lautenberg: "I will agree to allow BATFE to flush the data in the system when the sun rises in the West. So long as the sun rises in the east, we need that data for [whatever] reason." I mean, that is what we are up against in this specific situation. As long as the WOT continues, we will be in yellow. A bald-faced end-run around the scope, spirit and intent of the law. Lautenberg should have been creamed when he jumped in for the (corrupt) Torch.

chaim
February 14, 2004, 10:19 PM
I think pro-gun forces need to pick one or two Senators and Congressmen/women per elections cycle that we need out of there and each of us send in $10-100 (depending upon what each person can afford) to the opposition. Heck, if 10% of THR alone gave $50 to one candidate we could do a lot for our side (10% of 9263 members is 926 people giving $50 each is $46,300- not enough to run a campaign but enough to be noticed).

We should identify the worst three or four and make our selection of two who we want to get rid of- my vote is both CA senators and Sen. Lautenberg, and be sure that Lautenberg is selected as one of the two to defeat. It seems like every anti-gun proposal I hear out of DC involves Sen. Lautenberg and at least one of the other two.

I think if we could get a few hundred people to do this, and to let both sides know why, we would be noticed. It might even help make a difference in getting a few bad guys in Washington removed.

BHPshooter
February 14, 2004, 10:24 PM
Gotta agree with ya, 7.62... In a position such as ours (defending gun rights), it does feel like there's always a fire that needs fighting -- the next one always bigger than the last.

I've doubted it before... I've wondered if it's really worth the headaches, aggrevation, pain, and heartaches to fight the good fight.

Well, I'm still here. ;)

Spartacus, I'm sorry to hear that you senator isn't doing his job (to listen to you).

This, IMO, is one of the main reasons we've got to break the 2-party system. Politicians run for office to push the party's ideals instead of listening to voters or preserving liberty.

Sorry, man. I just don't know what else to say.

Wes

7.62FullMetalJacket
February 14, 2004, 10:25 PM
Chaim,

I do believe you are on to something. Fienstein, Schumer, Lautenberg are the most egregious. Then, Boxer, Kennedy, Shrillary.

greyhound
February 15, 2004, 09:46 AM
Chaim-

I'd do it.

If we could get cooperation between the various gun boards we could really do something, though I don't know how hard that would be....

spartacus2002
February 15, 2004, 09:52 AM
I have come to the conclusion that kamikaze voting (just plain voting out incumbents) is the only method that will send a message, until there are term limits.

The lack of term limits is the only major beef I have with the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. Too bad Thomas Jefferson was in France and not at Philadelphia.

hube1236
February 15, 2004, 10:31 AM
It's more than fingers in the dike. We are always on the defensive. Gun ralleys should be thrown, million man marches.

My big beef with conservatives and gun owners in general, is that we always think sending money to the NRA makes up for not picketing Hillarious or otherwise making noise. I am guilty too.

Until we go on the offensive, like the libs, and get off this "let's take the high road BS ," we will lose .

Waitone
February 15, 2004, 10:47 AM
The lack of term limits is the only major beef I have with the Founding Fathers and the Constitution. I go back and forth on term limits. Right now I'm on the side that says the dead, European white guys built the system with terms limits imbeded in the process.

Every two years the entire house of reps and 1/3 of the senate is up for re-election. If you live in occupied territory you've got a target rich environment. When elections roll around just don't vote for the Incumbent Party.

This up coming election will see me voting against one of Bush's favorite "conservative" reps. I also get to vote for a former Clinton stooge for senator. I am working my personal jihad on the Incumbent Party.

Leatherneck
February 15, 2004, 11:18 AM
Spartacus:
John Warner is a good man and a pretty good Senator on almost every issue except guns and gun control. I don't know where he gets that from, but remember he's got a pretty "elite" background. It would seem he harbors a disdain for the common man and our basic rights. I don't think I'll vote for him ever again.

TC
TFL Survivor

MicroBalrog
February 15, 2004, 11:21 AM
The problem is not with the politicians.

The problem is with the hearts and minds of The People (tm)

geegee
February 15, 2004, 11:58 AM
It's more than fingers in the dike. We are always on the defensive. Gun ralleys should be thrown, million man marches.

My big beef with conservatives and gun owners in general, is that we always think sending money to the NRA makes up for not picketing Hillarious or otherwise making noise. I am guilty too.

Until we go on the offensive, like the libs, and get off this "let's take the high road BS ," we will lose .
I agree wholeheartedly. We're very comfortable here, discussing this amongst like-minded individuals and preaching to the choir. Although THR has a pretty large membership, we're miniscule when compared to the drones around us, who can barely bother themselves to read a daily newspaper, much less become acquainted with substantive issues.

I've asked myself the same question before: where are the pro-gun rallies? There's a certain element of gun owners (albeit quite small) that believe the answer is to join a militia group. I don't say that to disparage their intent or their efforts, but that seems to take a quantum leap past a more basic and measured response, that of public demonstrations by law abiding citizens who are gun owners.

Please don't tell me we can't muster an effort at least equal to that dopey Million Mommy March. But if we can't, we probably deserve to lose our rights to own firearms. geegee

general
February 15, 2004, 12:03 PM
I'd thro in $20.00 just to have a pic of feinswine's eyes bulging out when she heard an opponent got a good chunk of cash from a pro rkba message board..:what: WHAT!!!????:neener:

whoami
February 15, 2004, 12:21 PM
Might wanna call/write your Senators and woof at them about this one, just to be safe

Which one should I write to.....Lousenberg the sponsor of the legislation, or Corslime the cosponsor of the legislation?

:banghead:

Also, you might want to read the bill. In addition to the backdoor registration, it also does the following:

1 handgun a month

Gives the AG authority to regulate FFLs w/regards to the storage and display of firearms for 'safety' purposes (violation = loss of license)

removes 12 month minimum for FFL records inspections, and allows inspections for any purpose, at any time, without warrant or probable cause

Authorizes $50 mil to hire no less than 500 BATFE inspectors and $100 mil to hire no less than 1000 BATFE agents.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:1:./temp/~c108Us5Gix::

And if you read the text of the bill, the message is very clear. As far as the Louse is concerned, gun owners = terrorists.

spartacus2002
February 15, 2004, 02:36 PM
I read the rest of the bill :banghead: :barf: you're right on the money: gun owners = terrorists.

I told my wife about this bill, and she immediately said "but the terrorists will have bought the guns waaay in advance of their action; they aren't stupid."

Then she said "Hey, have we EVER gone below Condition Yellow?"



I'll tell you why there aren't any huge gunowner rallies; we all have jobs :D

BHPshooter
February 15, 2004, 03:07 PM
I just posted my positive response from my senator here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65320

Don't worry, there are still good guys out there. :)

Wes

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