Gun friendly countries.


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del4
February 14, 2004, 10:08 PM
Are there any other gun friendly countries out there? I know some countries allow hunting although the firearms are heavily regulated. Some allow ownership but have to be kept at a club. I heard about buddies in the Navy buying Berettas in Italy, Sigs in Germany (Switerland maybe?). Are we the only ones:scrutiny: :uhoh: ?

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P95Carry
February 14, 2004, 10:19 PM
I do believe Italy is pretty good .. tho not sure re handguns. Finland, Norway and Sweden are pretty good by many standards. Oh and NZ is not bad, for now, tho I fear Australia's limitations may soon catch up.

I doubt tho there is anywhere, where carry has the position we enjoy.

Beyond that ... I fear we are almost looking at a very unfriendly planet .. gun-wise!:(

dischord
February 14, 2004, 10:59 PM
Most nations' governments are very friendly with guns ... their own guns ... its their citizens' guns that they're unfriendly with. ;)

Sunray
February 14, 2004, 11:32 PM
"...NZ is not bad, for now, tho I fear Australia's limitations may soon catch up..." New Zealand tried the gun registry thing and saw that it was expensive and did nothing. So they packed it in. I doubt they'd go back to it. South Africa is about as friendly as it can get, from what I've heard. The Hunting Regs there state what you can use and what you cannot by the beastie you're hunting. Common sense rules though. No .223 for elephant etc. The forums here will give better info from actual PH's. http://www.nookhill.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi
Switzerland is still has a citizen army. You take your issue piece home with you.

whm1974
February 15, 2004, 06:15 AM
I do believe Italy is pretty good .. tho not sure re handguns. Finland, Norway and Sweden are pretty good by many standards. Oh and NZ is not bad, for now, tho I fear Australia's limitations may soon catch up.

I think Italy allows handguns, but no guns in cilvilan hand can be military
caliber. Come to think of it Glock has a 9x21 for Italy.

Bill Meadows

goosegunner
February 15, 2004, 07:08 AM
If not gun friendly, Norway is at least not gun unfriendly.

Lone Star
February 15, 2004, 10:33 AM
Wish I could recall where, but I read that Italy has rescinded the law prohibiting 9mm Parabellum handguns. That was what created a need for the odd 9x21 cartridge.

Not sure if .45acp is legal there.

Some Browning HP's also were sold there in 7.65mm Luger caliber, to evade the 9mm ban when it was in effect. I've seen a couple here, but they weren't routinely imported into the USA.

Argentina has some paperwork for centerfire handguns, but I gather it's not too bad for citizens with a clean record and no prior communist connections.

Uruguay limits calibers. We had a Uruguayan member here who covered this, I think.

Brazil is moving toward a total ban on civilian guns.

South Africa limits the number of guns a single person can own and has storage requirements.

New Zealand has had severe storage requirements, and I suspect still does. (Guns "broken down" and locked in a safe. No practical self defense permitted, anyway. Severe handgun restrictions.)

Lone Star

Bill Hook
February 15, 2004, 11:34 AM
Brazil is moving toward a total ban on civilian guns.


Check around, but I think they're there. The only glimmer is the ban must go to a general plebescite in a couple years for a vote.

bradvanhorn
February 15, 2004, 11:38 AM
I remember Israel was very gun friendly. I was hanging out with some IDF guys & gals at a little pub one night, and they basically said that if you're currently serving you must carry a weapon (as they all were). And, once you were released or retired from your service, you were always afforded the courtesy of carrying a weapon. I recall they said it was basically the same for the police force as well. Of course they're in a much different situation than most (if not all) of us, but I like their attitude (toward guns) :)

BTR
February 15, 2004, 01:53 PM
Isreal is very gun unfriendly, except for carry for some people... ask microbalrog.

muddyboots
February 15, 2004, 03:52 PM
Chile must be pretty gun friendly. A couple of years ago I went into a sporting goods store in a mall in Santiago. There were a lot of handguns on display, mostly S&W. My Spanish is too rusty to be able to strike up a lengthy firearms conversation, but I guess if they're on display they must be for sale.

otomik
July 29, 2004, 09:17 AM
i'm resurrecting this old thread instead of starting another

It looks like the Czech Republic is somewhat gun friendly. Surprising for a former warsaw pact country. I've heard great things about it from friends who've visited.
http://www.firearmslawcenter.org/content/mllicensingprint.asp
which changed slightly due to EU requirements:
http://www.mac.doc.gov/ceebic/countryr/Czechr/MARKET/czGunLaw.htm

It also seems this is another area the French are fairly reasonable about (that and nuclear power). http://www.ssaa.org.au/aug97.html

does anybody have any info on asia? this girl i know from hong kong was interested in owning a gun after taking her to the range a few times.

hartzpad
July 29, 2004, 10:42 AM
In Switzerland, Swiss citizens are issued a full-auto Sig 550 rifle and 100 rounds of ammo I believe, just to be ready. When you reach retirement age, the government takes your Sig rifle and converts it to semi-auto and you keep it. I have also read that all the bridges in Switzerland are pre-wired for explosives, so that they can be destroyed if need be during a war. Plenty of info about interesting stuff in Switzerland if you search.

Nick_90
July 29, 2004, 10:59 AM
Switzerland is very gun friendly but we are under attack buy the European Union (of which we are, thank God, not members but with whom we enter into many bilateral agreements).
Moreover, our own leftwing is very anti-gun and we are always fighting them to maintant our rights...

Nick_90
July 29, 2004, 11:02 AM
I believe Turkey is also quite gun friendly, but being a candidate to membership of the European Union, the turkish citizens' gun rights will almost certainly be reduced...

Spinner
July 29, 2004, 04:47 PM
New Zealand has had severe storage requirements, and I suspect still does. (Guns "broken down" and locked in a safe. No practical self defense permitted, anyway. Severe handgun restrictions.)

New Zealand requires all guns to be secured to prevent unintentional access by children, non-firearms licence holders and burglars. Ammunition must be stored separately from firearms and it is preferable if firearms are stored in a manner that they could not be fired (e.g. bolt stored separately). A firearms licence must be presented when you buy ammunition.

Military styled semi-automatics (MSSAs), fully automatic weapons and handguns require endorsements on a standard firearms licence and to get that endorsement you have to prove a need and demonstrate greater security for firearms. Handguns and MSSAs need to be stored in an approved safe.

To get a handgun endorsement on your licence you must be a member of a registered pistol club, you must have been a member for at least 6 months and you must have been recommended by the club for endorsement. To be recommended you must have competed safely in at least 6 competitions and you must remain an active member to retain your endorsement (minimum number of competition per year). To purchase a handgun you must first apply for a permit to procure and this permit is specific to each handgun. A handgun is only allowed to be transported between your home, your club and your gunsmith.

We used to have gun registration for all guns, now its only for handguns and MSSAs

Nobody can get a CCW permit (in fact there was a specific law change to allow CCW for the security teams for a visit from Bill Clinton a few years ago). Our diplomatic protection corps may be allowed to carry concealed, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

New Zealand cops do not routinely carry guns. Some cars have firearms, firearms are carried for a response to an armed situation and our Armed Offenders Squad (similar to SWAT) are the epitome of mall-ninjaness, but other than that all our cops carry is a stick and handcuffs.

Spinner

geojap
July 29, 2004, 04:57 PM
I have always been fascinated with Switzerland's history of firearms ownership, their citizen army with compulsory home firearm ownership and their spirit of independence. Its citizenry and cultural values in that regard are very similar to those of Finnland and the United States.

I've been in Switzerland a few times and it is an amazing country. Extremely beautiful and a very high standard of living. I'd love to live there for a few years. I lived next door in Germany for 11 years in the 80's and 90's.

Does anyone know of any English-language books or web sites that describe the history of Switzerland's army and philosophy regarding firearms? That would be an interesting read.

BTW, I have two Swiss K-31 rifles that were both issued to the Zurich Armory. The tags under the buttplates told me that. Both came frmo the same location. I haven't shot them yet, gotta buy some GP11 ammo. Tales of their accuracy are legend. They usually win the C&R Postal Match competitions on the military surplus forums.

neoncowboy
July 29, 2004, 06:25 PM
Judging from the footage I see on the news, Iraq seems pretty gun friendly. Seems like everyone carries an AK.

Same with the west bank, Lebanon, Afghanistan (looks like in Afghanistan you can even have a Toyota pickup with machine gun mounted in the back!).

Hawk
July 29, 2004, 07:29 PM
I remain curious about Thailand.

Check number 9 here (http://bangkok.thailandtoday.com/shopping/07_g01_rattanakosin.html) - for an interesting shopping area.

Also, http://www.thaishooters.com is intriguing.

I don't have any specifics - anybody else know?

Kurt S.
July 29, 2004, 08:25 PM
From what a couple of Pakistanis I knew in graduate school used to say, Pakistan is really gun friendly. These guys were Pathans ("Pashtoons") from Peshawar, NWFP (yes, that's right, the same place you think it is). They knew I was a gun nut so they always were talking about me coming over to visit once they got back. They said we could go to Dara and have any gun I wanted copied for about $10 US. I'm not sure what that would have been in rupees. I was dating my lovely wife at the time and although these guys treated her with utmost respect, sort of like a favorite sister or aunt, she really didn't have much desire to tour a foreign country wrapped in a burkha. Plus, I didn't have a lot of good vibes about plans for getting my "souvenirs" back to Texas.

But they taught me some great swear words in Pashto and Urdu!

Rebeldon
July 29, 2004, 08:47 PM
Duplicate thread

Rebeldon
July 29, 2004, 08:48 PM
Switzerland is very gun friendly but we are under attack buy the European Union (of which we are, thank God, not members but with whom we enter into many bilateral agreements).

God bless Switzerland! :) It's the only truly free country in Europe.

Travis McGee
July 30, 2004, 02:31 AM
Many countries have failrly unrestrictive gun laws...today. And as long as the government "approves" of your "need" to get the required permits.

Only the USA enshrines the RKBA in its Constitution. This means to me, if the govt tries to outlaw private gun ownership, they have crossed the lines and lost their legitimacy. And in that case...all bets are off.

http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/bookcover.jpg

M67
July 30, 2004, 04:03 AM
God bless Switzerland! :) It's the only truly free country in Europe. Nothing against the Swiss, but if you count freedom the way most highroaders seem to do it, by the number of guns*, Switzerland takes the bronze medal in the European championships. ;)

*I think the highest number of guns per capita in the world is found in Yemen. I've never been there, so I don't know how free they are...

texengland
July 30, 2004, 05:32 AM
Swiss Army homepage


www.armee.ch

Wesz
July 30, 2004, 05:56 AM
The country with the second-highest gun ownership is Yemen, with between 33 and 50 firearms per 100 people, followed by Finland. The 15 countries of the EU have an estimated 84 million firearms. Of that, 67 million (80%) are in civilian hands. With a total EU population of 375 million people, this amounts to 17.4 guns for every 100 people.

trooper
July 30, 2004, 05:06 PM
Germany is not really gun-friendly... however, there are about 20 millions legal firearms in private hands (in a population of about 80 millions).

Acceptable "needs" are sporting and hunting, but not personal defense (unless you can prove that you are especially threatened). Almost no carry permits are issued.

Membership in a shooting association is pretty much compulsory. Lots of bureaucratic hoops and loops to jump through, but anybody who wants a gun can acquire one (if he puts a year of regular training and a couple of background checks and examinations into it).

There's a gun club in nearly every small town but many of them only shoot airguns and olympic-style smallbore. IDPA is illegal (it's considered combat training) and IPSC is under scrutiny right now.

Many people hunt over here as well. We have no caliber restrictions and most "evil black rifles" are allowed as long as they are civilian clones and not actual military weapons.


Regards,

Trooper

T.Stahl
July 30, 2004, 05:50 PM
Didn't the BKA (German equiv. of the FBI) estimate say that there are ~20,000,000 illegal permit-requiring (or banned) and ~10,000,000 legal permit-requiring guns in Germany alone? Plus who-knows-how-many permit-free gas-guns and air-guns.

trooper
July 30, 2004, 05:56 PM
10 millions, 20 millions... whatever :)

Not enough, anyway... I used to know a guy whose favourite line was "A K98 and a Luger P 08 belong in every German household..." :) :)


Regards,

Trooper

T.Stahl
July 30, 2004, 06:35 PM
Not enough? Not enough in the right hands! Not enough with the right liberties in the right hands even more so!

BTW, does it have to be a K98 and a P08? Neither nor in this household, only a Glock, an Enfield, two HKs, a Swede and a Remington 700.

Das Pferd
July 30, 2004, 08:59 PM
Somalia.

jefnvk
July 30, 2004, 09:23 PM
Whats Switzerland's Crime rate? Seems antis would have brought the country up if it were high at all, totheir more guns= more crime argument.

Skytrooper
July 30, 2004, 11:00 PM
Hawk, I've visited the area in Bangkok you indicated in your post. It consists of two full blocks of door-to-door gun stores. Most of the stores are fairly small with relatively few firearms visible in display windows. Considering how few customers I saw, I wondered how the stores remained in business.

There are shooting ranges in Pattaya and Phuket geared to tourists using rented firearms. When I drove by the range on Phuket, I noticed large Springfield Armory signs displayed. I understand Japanese tourists in Thailand (and in the U.S.) really enjoy the opportunity to shoot firearms, especially handguns, since they're effectively prohibited in Japan.

Tom Bri
July 31, 2004, 12:15 AM
I recall an editorial I read in a Thai newspaper some years back. It could have been written line by line from a NRA press release. All about how if assault rifles are banned then only criminals can get them, and how law abiding citizens are just that, law abiding, and should therefore be allowed to own guns etc etc etc.

So I guess that Thailand is pretty gun friendly, or it was ten years ago anyway. I saw a guy carrying a 1911 in a bar. Not a cop.

jeff-10
July 31, 2004, 12:22 AM
I went to Costa Rica in the eary 90s and I remember seeing firearms out in the open. I also seem to remember some gun shops there. I am not sure how it is now.

burbanite
July 31, 2004, 02:21 PM
[quote]
Spinner[quote]

They'll never let me back in again...:D

Mannlicher
July 31, 2004, 05:32 PM
There is no other country in the world, where gun ownership is as open, and available for the average guy, as America. Period.

Gary H
August 1, 2004, 11:32 AM
Honduras must have rather liberal gun laws, or are unable to enforce their laws. As of a few years ago, many shops were protected by hired security carrying M-16's, or AK's. My sponsors, two nuns, said that Contra weapons had flooded the country. Many criminal elements were robbing merchants at gunpoint. The merchants responded by hiring armed security. My comment regarding enforcement stems from an observation. Many police didn't have cars. They would try to stop trucks for inspection, but if the trucker didn't want to stop, the police were unable to pursue on their bicycles. So, not so sure that the police are able to enforce the local law.

otomik
August 3, 2004, 08:19 PM
Tavo94 posted this on another thread:

"Guns law here in Panama are pretty liberal, anybody can buy one as long as they meet the criteria:

18 years old,
No prior record,
Pay 33.00 for a 3 year CWP or 55.00 for a 5 year CWP,
Take a DNA test (free, government pays for it)
Take a sicological test, saying that the person is mentally stable.
That´s its. Sounds like much but it pretty easy.

Most weapons are permitted, the restricted ones are, all full automatic pistols (glock 18, Berreta 93), and rifles (M16, AK47, FAL). In caliber restrictions there is non, and high capacity are permitted."

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